On Thu, 05 Mar 2009 23:32:09 -0500, wrote:


I am a lot better prepared than those boys and I seldom go past the
gulf road bridge.

That's the worst part of it - how unprepared they were.
Looked like the boat even had radar, if that's a dome on the T-top.
Maybe had a real good VHF aboard too.
But when they flipped the were basically defenseless.
Not even a light. The survivor said there was a chopper overhead the
first night.

I have 2 boxes on board with a good amount of survival gear in each
(duplicated)
If nothing else the boxes are something to hang onto. They are double
wall plastic and float quite well. If I was serious about them being a
real "ditch" thing I would shoot the cavity full of foam. They are
really just where I store my gear, 2 extra seats and where my dog
rides to keep watch. I keep 4 vests in each one (2 in each have
strobes and whistles), a fire extinguisher, first aid kit, flashlights
and lots of bottled water, jackets, towels, flares and line.
The boxes are tied in but easy to free.
That is in addition to my mini-survival kit I have in and on my
console. Another fire extinguisher, a boy scout compass, Leatherman,
more flares, another floating flashlight, a real good horn that you
just blow and a couple lighters (Castaway would have been an hour
shorter if Tom Hanks had a lighter).
It would be fairly easy to sling a "hammock" between those boxes, rig
some shade with the beach towels (I picked the most garish colors) and
wait for the Coasties

All this and I don't go anywhere. If I really went offshore in the
winter I would have survival suits and at least one EPIRB.

Oh Did I say "a lot of water"?

I was impressed by the North Atlantic during my hitch in the Coast
Guard and I have a lot of respect for cold water.
You can get away with a lot more in 85 degree water than when it is 68
or less (the temperature that will kill a manatee)
Basically if you can keep yourself hydrated and keep your head above
water you can live for days and not be in too much trouble if the fish
don't eat you.

After some thought I've reached a couple conclusions.
First of course, don't EVER get your boat in water too big for it.
Second, if you're going offshore, it's just good sense to have a life
raft. Some will call it overkill on a small boat and I won't argue.
But for me seeing that slick hull barely afloat and 3 guys dead in
"relatively" warm water says a raft isn't overkill.
Sure, the best ones are expensive, and are a bit bulky and heavy.
But offshore is offshore, and life is life.
I just believe in redundancy where safety is concerned, and preparing
for conditions.
And any boat that's offshore-capable has capacity for a raft.
Of course the ditch bag, EPIRB, etc, is critical, but if you think
life raft first that naturally brings up ditch bag issues like
contents and availability.
Anyway, that's how I approach it in my thinking.
Another important thing is how fast it all goes bad.
One minute all is pretty "normal," and the next second you're in the
drink. Waves don't even have to be big to tip a smallish boat if a
heavy passenger load gets it unbalanced.
Bigger boats like Wayne's probably can't behave like this unless taken
to conditions Wayne won't go to.
Reminds me of a trip Chuck reported on in his trawler that he was a
bit uncomfortable with, but that's another story.
Life raft stowage and deployment for this smaller type boat needs some
serious thought. You don't want it auto-inflating under the boat.
No suitable superstructure to attach it to I think.
The Everglades boat looked a bit top-heavy anyway, and rafts look to
be about 60-100 lbs, depending.
It was reported that one guy swam under the boat to retrieve vests,
and for this type boat that's probably how you would retrieve the
life raft canister/bag and ditch bag if it flipped suddenly.
Those should be firmly secured but easily released by a swimmer.
Just musing here, but when I get my boat I'll be giving safety more
thought than anything else - except for my tackle box maybe (-:.
BTW, I found this site to be pretty interesting.
http://www.equipped.org/home.htm

--Vic

On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 05:01:01 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

The Everglades boat looked a bit top-heavy anyway, and rafts look to
be about 60-100 lbs, depending.

It is ironic that very few boats under 35 ft carry life rafts but they
are the ones that most need them. There are soft pack rafts that
weigh less than 50 lbs. All life rafts however have a significant
hidden expense: They must be repacked and recertified every 1 to 3
years depending on the manufacturer and model.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 05:01:01 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

The Everglades boat looked a bit top-heavy anyway, and rafts look to
be about 60-100 lbs, depending.

It is ironic that very few boats under 35 ft carry life rafts but they
are the ones that most need them. There are soft pack rafts that
weigh less than 50 lbs. All life rafts however have a significant
hidden expense: They must be repacked and recertified every 1 to 3
years depending on the manufacturer and model.


Repacking and recertification is legally required only if the boat is
chartered for hire.
If used on a private, recreational boat it is still a good idea to have them
repacked, but not really necessary every year.

Eisboch

On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 08:30:43 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Wayne.B" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 05:01:01 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

The Everglades boat looked a bit top-heavy anyway, and rafts look to
be about 60-100 lbs, depending.

It is ironic that very few boats under 35 ft carry life rafts but they
are the ones that most need them. There are soft pack rafts that
weigh less than 50 lbs. All life rafts however have a significant
hidden expense: They must be repacked and recertified every 1 to 3
years depending on the manufacturer and model.


Repacking and recertification is legally required only if the boat is
chartered for hire.
If used on a private, recreational boat it is still a good idea to have them
repacked, but not really necessary every year.

If certification is not required, you can do it yourself. Like
parachutes. Everyone packs the one they plan to land with.
The reserve is, like the one on an ejection seat, an emergency rig,
and must be packed, and signed off by, a licenced rigger.
If there is no regulation, you can roll your own, somewhat. Like
annually changing the 100 AA batteries. The VHF and GPS are always in
the PFD pockets, of course.

Casady

wrote:
On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:24:08 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 05:01:01 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

The Everglades boat looked a bit top-heavy anyway, and rafts look to
be about 60-100 lbs, depending.
It is ironic that very few boats under 35 ft carry life rafts but they
are the ones that most need them. There are soft pack rafts that
weigh less than 50 lbs. All life rafts however have a significant
hidden expense: They must be repacked and recertified every 1 to 3
years depending on the manufacturer and model.

It's part of the same logic that leads people to think that a smaller
boat needs smaller bilgepumps.




Indeed.

One aspect of the Parkers I've owned that I appreciated is their
bone-dry bilges. Unless I open a hatch and pour water down into it, I
don't seem to get any water into the bilges of my 21-footer. There's no
liner. I supposed if I started filling up the center console, at some
point water would go down the rigging tubes into the bilge, but that
doesn't happen a whole lot.

On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 09:12:56 -0500, HK wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:24:08 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 05:01:01 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

The Everglades boat looked a bit top-heavy anyway, and rafts look to
be about 60-100 lbs, depending.
It is ironic that very few boats under 35 ft carry life rafts but they
are the ones that most need them. There are soft pack rafts that
weigh less than 50 lbs. All life rafts however have a significant
hidden expense: They must be repacked and recertified every 1 to 3
years depending on the manufacturer and model.

It's part of the same logic that leads people to think that a smaller
boat needs smaller bilgepumps.




Indeed.

One aspect of the Parkers I've owned that I appreciated is their
bone-dry bilges. Unless I open a hatch and pour water down into it, I
don't seem to get any water into the bilges of my 21-footer. There's no
liner. I supposed if I started filling up the center console, at some
point water would go down the rigging tubes into the bilge, but that
doesn't happen a whole lot.

So far the only person who has said he carries a life raft is Wayne.
Expected given the size of his boat.
Gfretwell doesn't go offshore - I think.
But though it appears to be a good idea carrying one if you go
offshore, I expect hardly any small boaters will equip them.
What sold me the most on it being a good idea is that it would have
saved the football guys from what killed them - hypothermia.
And in not really cold water.
Guess it just depends on your outlook about boating safety.

--Vic

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...


So far the only person who has said he carries a life raft is Wayne.
Expected given the size of his boat.
Gfretwell doesn't go offshore - I think.
But though it appears to be a good idea carrying one if you go
offshore, I expect hardly any small boaters will equip them.
What sold me the most on it being a good idea is that it would have
saved the football guys from what killed them - hypothermia.
And in not really cold water.
Guess it just depends on your outlook about boating safety.

--Vic



I had USCG approved survival pods on the last three boats I've had, but as
of yet have not put one on the current boat. (Mainly because I am not sure
I am going to keep it). The Egg, the Navigator and the GB all had the
fiberglass canisters that automatically deployed when the sensor was
submerged. All were four man except the one on the Navigator which was a
six man raft.

They ain't cheap. Switlik now markets a series of rafts that although not
USCG approved, appear to be very similar to the approved types and are about
half the cost. They are probably ideal for the recreational, non-commercial
boater.

If I were to do any long range cruising, I'd install one on the current
boat, along with a new EPIRB, but I don't see that happening at the moment.

Eisboch

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 09:12:56 -0500, HK wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:24:08 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 05:01:01 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

The Everglades boat looked a bit top-heavy anyway, and rafts look to
be about 60-100 lbs, depending.
It is ironic that very few boats under 35 ft carry life rafts but they
are the ones that most need them. There are soft pack rafts that
weigh less than 50 lbs. All life rafts however have a significant
hidden expense: They must be repacked and recertified every 1 to 3
years depending on the manufacturer and model.

It's part of the same logic that leads people to think that a smaller
boat needs smaller bilgepumps.




Indeed.

One aspect of the Parkers I've owned that I appreciated is their
bone-dry bilges. Unless I open a hatch and pour water down into it, I
don't seem to get any water into the bilges of my 21-footer. There's no
liner. I supposed if I started filling up the center console, at some
point water would go down the rigging tubes into the bilge, but that
doesn't happen a whole lot.

So far the only person who has said he carries a life raft is Wayne.
Expected given the size of his boat.
Gfretwell doesn't go offshore - I think.
But though it appears to be a good idea carrying one if you go
offshore, I expect hardly any small boaters will equip them.
What sold me the most on it being a good idea is that it would have
saved the football guys from what killed them - hypothermia.
And in not really cold water.
Guess it just depends on your outlook about boating safety.

--Vic



Depends where you boat. Here in the San Francisco area, most small boaters
that go offshore, go maybe 8 miles at most for 98% of the fishing, and there
is always a fleet when the fishing is on. The only boats that go 30 miles
offshore for tuna without a group running are 30+' foot boats and they
normally have EPIRB. so if someone gets in trouble, there are other boats
about. But as an aquaintance found out when flipping his BW 13. ****
happens. Luckily the 3 climbed on the bottom and were found by a commercial
crab boat at dusk. They did not have a ditch bag and the handheld VHF went
to the bottom. We have cold water here. 48-55 year round. So survival is
a couple hours at most in the water. I have the birthday present list one
of the floating ditch bags from West Marine. They velcro to the boat, and
should be easy to get if the boat swamps. Part of the liferaft requirement
is where you boat and how many other boats you run with.

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
m...

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 09:12:56 -0500, HK wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:24:08 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 05:01:01 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

The Everglades boat looked a bit top-heavy anyway, and rafts look to
be about 60-100 lbs, depending.
It is ironic that very few boats under 35 ft carry life rafts but they
are the ones that most need them. There are soft pack rafts that
weigh less than 50 lbs. All life rafts however have a significant
hidden expense: They must be repacked and recertified every 1 to 3
years depending on the manufacturer and model.

It's part of the same logic that leads people to think that a smaller
boat needs smaller bilgepumps.




Indeed.

One aspect of the Parkers I've owned that I appreciated is their
bone-dry bilges. Unless I open a hatch and pour water down into it, I
don't seem to get any water into the bilges of my 21-footer. There's no
liner. I supposed if I started filling up the center console, at some
point water would go down the rigging tubes into the bilge, but that
doesn't happen a whole lot.

So far the only person who has said he carries a life raft is Wayne.
Expected given the size of his boat.
Gfretwell doesn't go offshore - I think.
But though it appears to be a good idea carrying one if you go
offshore, I expect hardly any small boaters will equip them.
What sold me the most on it being a good idea is that it would have
saved the football guys from what killed them - hypothermia.
And in not really cold water.
Guess it just depends on your outlook about boating safety.

--Vic



Depends where you boat. Here in the San Francisco area, most small
boaters that go offshore, go maybe 8 miles at most for 98% of the fishing,
and there is always a fleet when the fishing is on. The only boats that
go 30 miles offshore for tuna without a group running are 30+' foot boats
and they normally have EPIRB. so if someone gets in trouble, there are
other boats about. But as an aquaintance found out when flipping his BW
13. **** happens. Luckily the 3 climbed on the bottom and were found by
a commercial crab boat at dusk. They did not have a ditch bag and the
handheld VHF went to the bottom. We have cold water here. 48-55 year
round. So survival is a couple hours at most in the water. I have the
birthday present list one of the floating ditch bags from West Marine.
They velcro to the boat, and should be easy to get if the boat swamps.
Part of the liferaft requirement is where you boat and how many other
boats you run with.

I have my handheld VHF + GPS + signal whistle attached to my PFD.......
the PFD is attached to me.
If anyone is within a 4 - 5 mile range I should be ok. (assuming they have a
VHF turned on to channel 16 or even 12)

Don White wrote:

I have my handheld VHF + GPS + signal whistle attached to my PFD.......
the PFD is attached to me.
If anyone is within a 4 - 5 mile range I should be ok. (assuming they have a
VHF turned on to channel 16 or even 12)



Amazing stuff. Got a good whistle on board that vessel, dummy?