....and Iran kicked it open.

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...Name=topNew s

On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:55:44 -0500, BAR wrote:

...and Iran kicked it open.

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...Name=topNew s

If you've been tracking info on Iran, you know the president is more
figurehead than executive and has a weak hand in dictating politics.
If the clerics who run the country thinks it's in their best interest
to engage, they will.

This is bluster and what was expected from Ahmadinigad, his rhetoric
is very predictable and a show for the region. Has little to do with
what will happen through diplomacy.

Did you expect them to bow down as say "Yes, sahib, whatever you
say!"?

I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd
obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach.

"jps" wrote in message
...


I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd
obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach.


Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic fundamentalists simply
want you dead.

Eisboch

Eisboch wrote:

"jps" wrote in message
...


I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd
obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach.


Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic fundamentalists
simply want you dead.

Eisboch


The islamic fundies comprise a tiny portion of islam. And if we were
opposed to dealing with islamic fundies, why was bush kissing butt with
the saudis?

"HK" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:

"jps" wrote in message
...


I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd
obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach.


Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic fundamentalists
simply want you dead.

Eisboch


The islamic fundies comprise a tiny portion of islam. And if we were
opposed to dealing with islamic fundies, why was bush kissing butt with
the saudis?

Why is Obama kissing butt with Iran?

Eisboch

Eisboch wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:

"jps" wrote in message
...


I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd
obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach.


Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic fundamentalists
simply want you dead.

Eisboch


The islamic fundies comprise a tiny portion of islam. And if we were
opposed to dealing with islamic fundies, why was bush kissing butt
with the saudis?

Why is Obama kissing butt with Iran?

Eisboch

Because it is worthwhile trying to defuse Iran and by doing so making
life and the chances of re-election a bit more difficult for its insane
"leader."


Obama isn't kissing butt...he simply is opening up channels of
communication. That's what the dummies in the Bush admin could not
figure out.

On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:24:05 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"jps" wrote in message
.. .


I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd
obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach.


Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic fundamentalists simply
want you dead.

Eisboch

You give them little credit and I think that's short sighted. If you
lived in their part of the world, you'd undoubtedly have a different
perspective.

There are folks over there as moderate in their thinking as you are in
yours. You should try and lean into a little more and perhaps you'd
understand why they posture the way they do.

It's complicated, don't think you can get away with simplifying it to
a bumper sticker.

Bush's swashbuckling was a ruse. Time proved it.

Where's bin Laden now? "I don't know, I don't pay much attention to
him anymore." paraphrase of GW two years after he announced "dead or
alive."

He's as credible in their eyes as Ahmadinegad is in ours.

"jps" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:24:05 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"jps" wrote in message
. ..


I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd
obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach.


Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic fundamentalists simply
want you dead.

Eisboch

You give them little credit and I think that's short sighted. If you
lived in their part of the world, you'd undoubtedly have a different
perspective.

There are folks over there as moderate in their thinking as you are in
yours. You should try and lean into a little more and perhaps you'd
understand why they posture the way they do.

It's complicated, don't think you can get away with simplifying it to
a bumper sticker.

Bush's swashbuckling was a ruse. Time proved it.

Where's bin Laden now? "I don't know, I don't pay much attention to
him anymore." paraphrase of GW two years after he announced "dead or
alive."

He's as credible in their eyes as Ahmadinegad is in ours.


When I refer to Islamic fundamentalists, I am speaking of those who use
religion to teach kids from the time they can walk that it is their duty to
kill westerners, especially Israelis and Americans. Talking, teaching,
begging isn't going to change that for a very long time, if ever.

Hard, cruel lesson Number 1.

Eisboch

On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:40:08 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"jps" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:24:05 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"jps" wrote in message
...


I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd
obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach.


Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic fundamentalists simply
want you dead.

Eisboch

You give them little credit and I think that's short sighted. If you
lived in their part of the world, you'd undoubtedly have a different
perspective.

There are folks over there as moderate in their thinking as you are in
yours. You should try and lean into a little more and perhaps you'd
understand why they posture the way they do.

It's complicated, don't think you can get away with simplifying it to
a bumper sticker.

Bush's swashbuckling was a ruse. Time proved it.

Where's bin Laden now? "I don't know, I don't pay much attention to
him anymore." paraphrase of GW two years after he announced "dead or
alive."

He's as credible in their eyes as Ahmadinegad is in ours.


When I refer to Islamic fundamentalists, I am speaking of those who use
religion to teach kids from the time they can walk that it is their duty to
kill westerners, especially Israelis and Americans. Talking, teaching,
begging isn't going to change that for a very long time, if ever.

Hard, cruel lesson Number 1.

Eisboch

They got that way from our disengagement. If we put money into
schools like bin Laden does, we'd be in a better position to influence
the situation.

We project our power through force instead of enlightenment.

Sound like a good policy for changing "the enemies" mind?

jps wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:55:44 -0500, BAR wrote:

...and Iran kicked it open.

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...Name=topNew s

If you've been tracking info on Iran, you know the president is more
figurehead than executive and has a weak hand in dictating politics.
If the clerics who run the country thinks it's in their best interest
to engage, they will.

He does what the clerics tell him to do, he isn't a lose cannon, he is
on a short leash.

This is bluster and what was expected from Ahmadinigad, his rhetoric
is very predictable and a show for the region. Has little to do with
what will happen through diplomacy.

His rhetoric is calculated and controlled.

Did you expect them to bow down as say "Yes, sahib, whatever you
say!"?

No. And, I don't expect us to role over and expose our belly to every
petty dictator, the head cleric in Iran, in the region.

I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd
obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach.

Yes I prefer Bush's approach to Obama's approach of throw away the stick
and then sit down and talk.