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I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:27:29 GMT, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote: http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=6617979 Oh is he giong to learn a lesson... You're making yourself sound ignorant. You give him 4 years and we just elected GW Bush for 8? Logic has left you. |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 21:17:56 GMT, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote: On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 15:14:12 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: "Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in message ... http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=6617979 Oh is he giong to learn a lesson... Just think. Using Harry and Vic's logic, Obama's legacy will be that he presided over the worst economic recession in the history of the USA. The Left is already going berzerk with his refusal to commit to closing Gitmo, not pulling troops out of Iraq and the probable collapse of his pledge get rid of the "Bush" tax cuts. Even more amusing is his own tax cut proposal. He's WAY out of his league with Congress too - it's going to be fun to watch. You underestimate his ability to learn quickly and set course on a well-thought out plan. You must've been a real fan of Bush. |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
"Vic Smith" wrote in message ... I know. But on Jan 21 we can blame it all on Obama according to your logic. Seriously, we are in bad shape. Not sure there is a way to recover. I need to think about this some more. Do that and get back to me. I'm going to make a cup of coffee. Should be enough time for you to work it out. --Vic I used the word "logic" to refer to your previous acknowledgement that you hold the sitting POTUS responsible for whatever the current state of affairs is. So does Harry. That's why you were lumped together. Perhaps I should have used the word "illogical". :-) Ok. Back from thinking. Here's the dilemma and my idea. According to the economic think tank panel on the CNN presentation, the prime reason for the economic mess we are in is our credit card mentality. It goes way beyond credit cards however. We want, so we buy with money we don't have. Sub-prime mortgages follows the same mentality and brought the life style problem to a head. The (almost) unanimous recommendation of the panel was for the country to return to a post depression mentality and concentrate on savings. People who lived through the depression learned a lesson and were much more fugal in their spending habits, putting money away for a rainy day. Somewhere along the line we shifted away from this mentality, and got into a buy now, pay later style of living. Saving for the future changed it's meaning to 401k investment planning, relying on others for a secure future. But now, here's the current problem in trying to recover from this mess: The government's solution is to encourage us to spend more now. The "stimulus" programs are intended to encourage spending. This is 180 degrees out of phase of what most conservative economic experts recommend and continues the "I want it now" mentality. It probably won't work because smart people *are* concerned and will most will put any extra money received through give a ways or tax reductions into savings. Here's my proposal. Forget about big business bailouts and stimulus checks/tax relief programs to private individuals. Establish a federal version of the state small business administration (SBA) programs and use a fraction of the bailout monies being spent on bailouts to provide start-up funding or growth funding for small businesses nation-wide. This is where 80 percent of the population works. Some of those who have lost jobs will apply for start-up funding to create new ones. Obviously not all new businesses will make it, but those that do will hire more people, many from the unemployed ranks. Small businesses are better suited to focus on new technologies, green programs, or service sector areas anyway because they don't have the diverse baggage to carry like big business. A recovery won't be fast, but it will be based on a solid footing and will open the door to re-establish manufacturing in the US. Eisboch |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 21:10:01 GMT, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote: On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 15:19:40 -0500, BAR wrote: Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=6617979 Oh is he giong to learn a lesson... It is Carter II filled with Clinton retreads. Obama has gone from a Hope and Change message in his campaign to a everybody is going to have to suffer in order to make it better message. He now sounds like the communist party leaders telling everyone that the workers paradise is just around the corner and there is just a little bit more suffering that you have to endure. Nobody wants to hear that let alone live through it. Obama is in way over his head. WAY over his head. He has no concept of wht he's doing - it's all an intellectual exercise -just like Carter. The self-implosion is going to be interesting to watch. I just heard you had predicted McCain as our next president. That's saying somethin'. You haven't skipped tracks, that's for sure. I predict your current analysis will also be shown to be ill-founded and more likely wishful thinking. If I were you I'd be wishing him the best and godspeed since you and everyone of your family members will be affected by such. |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 02:20:22 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote: "Vic Smith" wrote in message .. . I know. But on Jan 21 we can blame it all on Obama according to your logic. Seriously, we are in bad shape. Not sure there is a way to recover. I need to think about this some more. Do that and get back to me. I'm going to make a cup of coffee. Should be enough time for you to work it out. --Vic I used the word "logic" to refer to your previous acknowledgement that you hold the sitting POTUS responsible for whatever the current state of affairs is. So does Harry. That's why you were lumped together. Perhaps I should have used the word "illogical". :-) Ok. Back from thinking. Here's the dilemma and my idea. According to the economic think tank panel on the CNN presentation, the prime reason for the economic mess we are in is our credit card mentality. It goes way beyond credit cards however. We want, so we buy with money we don't have. Sub-prime mortgages follows the same mentality and brought the life style problem to a head. The (almost) unanimous recommendation of the panel was for the country to return to a post depression mentality and concentrate on savings. People who lived through the depression learned a lesson and were much more fugal in their spending habits, putting money away for a rainy day. Somewhere along the line we shifted away from this mentality, and got into a buy now, pay later style of living. Saving for the future changed it's meaning to 401k investment planning, relying on others for a secure future. But now, here's the current problem in trying to recover from this mess: The government's solution is to encourage us to spend more now. The "stimulus" programs are intended to encourage spending. This is 180 degrees out of phase of what most conservative economic experts recommend and continues the "I want it now" mentality. It probably won't work because smart people *are* concerned and will most will put any extra money received through give a ways or tax reductions into savings. Here's my proposal. Forget about big business bailouts and stimulus checks/tax relief programs to private individuals. Establish a federal version of the state small business administration (SBA) programs and use a fraction of the bailout monies being spent on bailouts to provide start-up funding or growth funding for small businesses nation-wide. This is where 80 percent of the population works. Some of those who have lost jobs will apply for start-up funding to create new ones. Obviously not all new businesses will make it, but those that do will hire more people, many from the unemployed ranks. Small businesses are better suited to focus on new technologies, green programs, or service sector areas anyway because they don't have the diverse baggage to carry like big business. A recovery won't be fast, but it will be based on a solid footing and will open the door to re-establish manufacturing in the US. It's a good idea and goes hand-in-hand with fostering an entreprenurial, green-driven economy. The problem is, it'd need to go through the banking system which, apart from dicey mortgage loans, has never been a big fan of playing venture capitalist. They have a hard time with investment banking, let alone venture. The SBA isn't set up to handle the load. It'd be like FEMA trying to get a handle on New Orleans. Again, good idea but where the agency to handle the traffic? |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
"jps" wrote in message ... If I were you I'd be wishing him the best and godspeed since you and everyone of your family members will be affected by such. I was not a supporter of Obama, but I certainly agree with with your comment. He needs all the help he can get. The problems we face are too great for one person and his staff to deal with. I just hope he remains as open to different ideas as he currently claims to be. I think Tom has expressed the same sentiment of support in the past. Eisboch |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
"jps" wrote in message ... On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 02:20:22 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: "Vic Smith" wrote in message . .. I know. But on Jan 21 we can blame it all on Obama according to your logic. Seriously, we are in bad shape. Not sure there is a way to recover. I need to think about this some more. Do that and get back to me. I'm going to make a cup of coffee. Should be enough time for you to work it out. --Vic I used the word "logic" to refer to your previous acknowledgement that you hold the sitting POTUS responsible for whatever the current state of affairs is. So does Harry. That's why you were lumped together. Perhaps I should have used the word "illogical". :-) Ok. Back from thinking. Here's the dilemma and my idea. According to the economic think tank panel on the CNN presentation, the prime reason for the economic mess we are in is our credit card mentality. It goes way beyond credit cards however. We want, so we buy with money we don't have. Sub-prime mortgages follows the same mentality and brought the life style problem to a head. The (almost) unanimous recommendation of the panel was for the country to return to a post depression mentality and concentrate on savings. People who lived through the depression learned a lesson and were much more fugal in their spending habits, putting money away for a rainy day. Somewhere along the line we shifted away from this mentality, and got into a buy now, pay later style of living. Saving for the future changed it's meaning to 401k investment planning, relying on others for a secure future. But now, here's the current problem in trying to recover from this mess: The government's solution is to encourage us to spend more now. The "stimulus" programs are intended to encourage spending. This is 180 degrees out of phase of what most conservative economic experts recommend and continues the "I want it now" mentality. It probably won't work because smart people *are* concerned and will most will put any extra money received through give a ways or tax reductions into savings. Here's my proposal. Forget about big business bailouts and stimulus checks/tax relief programs to private individuals. Establish a federal version of the state small business administration (SBA) programs and use a fraction of the bailout monies being spent on bailouts to provide start-up funding or growth funding for small businesses nation-wide. This is where 80 percent of the population works. Some of those who have lost jobs will apply for start-up funding to create new ones. Obviously not all new businesses will make it, but those that do will hire more people, many from the unemployed ranks. Small businesses are better suited to focus on new technologies, green programs, or service sector areas anyway because they don't have the diverse baggage to carry like big business. A recovery won't be fast, but it will be based on a solid footing and will open the door to re-establish manufacturing in the US. It's a good idea and goes hand-in-hand with fostering an entreprenurial, green-driven economy. The problem is, it'd need to go through the banking system which, apart from dicey mortgage loans, has never been a big fan of playing venture capitalist. They have a hard time with investment banking, let alone venture. The SBA isn't set up to handle the load. It'd be like FEMA trying to get a handle on New Orleans. Again, good idea but where the agency to handle the traffic? Skip the banks. As you must know by running a business a bank is the last place to go when you *need* funding. The money will come from already approved and future "bailout" funds. Forget about billions and trillions also. If someone made a million dollars available to me tomorrow, I'd attempt to fire up a new business on Tuesday. State run SBA *is* too small. I am proposing a temporary federal version of SBA to get things started, funded by the already approved bailout funding. Eisboch |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:31:44 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote: "jps" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 02:20:22 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: "Vic Smith" wrote in message ... I know. But on Jan 21 we can blame it all on Obama according to your logic. Seriously, we are in bad shape. Not sure there is a way to recover. I need to think about this some more. Do that and get back to me. I'm going to make a cup of coffee. Should be enough time for you to work it out. --Vic I used the word "logic" to refer to your previous acknowledgement that you hold the sitting POTUS responsible for whatever the current state of affairs is. So does Harry. That's why you were lumped together. Perhaps I should have used the word "illogical". :-) Ok. Back from thinking. Here's the dilemma and my idea. According to the economic think tank panel on the CNN presentation, the prime reason for the economic mess we are in is our credit card mentality. It goes way beyond credit cards however. We want, so we buy with money we don't have. Sub-prime mortgages follows the same mentality and brought the life style problem to a head. The (almost) unanimous recommendation of the panel was for the country to return to a post depression mentality and concentrate on savings. People who lived through the depression learned a lesson and were much more fugal in their spending habits, putting money away for a rainy day. Somewhere along the line we shifted away from this mentality, and got into a buy now, pay later style of living. Saving for the future changed it's meaning to 401k investment planning, relying on others for a secure future. But now, here's the current problem in trying to recover from this mess: The government's solution is to encourage us to spend more now. The "stimulus" programs are intended to encourage spending. This is 180 degrees out of phase of what most conservative economic experts recommend and continues the "I want it now" mentality. It probably won't work because smart people *are* concerned and will most will put any extra money received through give a ways or tax reductions into savings. Here's my proposal. Forget about big business bailouts and stimulus checks/tax relief programs to private individuals. Establish a federal version of the state small business administration (SBA) programs and use a fraction of the bailout monies being spent on bailouts to provide start-up funding or growth funding for small businesses nation-wide. This is where 80 percent of the population works. Some of those who have lost jobs will apply for start-up funding to create new ones. Obviously not all new businesses will make it, but those that do will hire more people, many from the unemployed ranks. Small businesses are better suited to focus on new technologies, green programs, or service sector areas anyway because they don't have the diverse baggage to carry like big business. A recovery won't be fast, but it will be based on a solid footing and will open the door to re-establish manufacturing in the US. It's a good idea and goes hand-in-hand with fostering an entreprenurial, green-driven economy. The problem is, it'd need to go through the banking system which, apart from dicey mortgage loans, has never been a big fan of playing venture capitalist. They have a hard time with investment banking, let alone venture. The SBA isn't set up to handle the load. It'd be like FEMA trying to get a handle on New Orleans. Again, good idea but where the agency to handle the traffic? Skip the banks. As you must know by running a business a bank is the last place to go when you *need* funding. The money will come from already approved and future "bailout" funds. Forget about billions and trillions also. If someone made a million dollars available to me tomorrow, I'd attempt to fire up a new business on Tuesday. State run SBA *is* too small. I am proposing a temporary federal version of SBA to get things started, funded by the already approved bailout funding. Eisboch Have you seen what the federal gov't did with the program it initiated to help victims rebuild their homes in NO? Yikes. Bureaucrats are good at layering bull**** between good intentions and execution. |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
"jps" wrote in message ... On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:31:44 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: State run SBA *is* too small. I am proposing a temporary federal version of SBA to get things started, funded by the already approved bailout funding. Eisboch Have you seen what the federal gov't did with the program it initiated to help victims rebuild their homes in NO? Yikes. Bureaucrats are good at layering bull**** between good intentions and execution. The mistake made there was depending on a bureaucratic government to execute the details of the program. The government is good at approving and allocating money, that's all. Make the funding available to hands-on people that know how to get things done. Normally, I wouldn't even propose federal funding for new company start-ups (or even SBA loans) because I think learning how to self-fund a company is as important as the product or service you provide. However, given the crisis that currently exists and the increase in un-employment, a temporary avenue for start-up funding using federal money (now being completely wasted on bailouts and so called "stimulus" packages) would be money much better spent in the long run with benefits to the economy and country that are more concrete and long lasting. Just an idea. Eisboch |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
Eisboch wrote:
"jps" wrote in message ... On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:31:44 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: State run SBA *is* too small. I am proposing a temporary federal version of SBA to get things started, funded by the already approved bailout funding. Eisboch Have you seen what the federal gov't did with the program it initiated to help victims rebuild their homes in NO? Yikes. Bureaucrats are good at layering bull**** between good intentions and execution. The mistake made there was depending on a bureaucratic government to execute the details of the program. The government is good at approving and allocating money, that's all. Make the funding available to hands-on people that know how to get things done. Normally, I wouldn't even propose federal funding for new company start-ups (or even SBA loans) because I think learning how to self-fund a company is as important as the product or service you provide. However, given the crisis that currently exists and the increase in un-employment, a temporary avenue for start-up funding using federal money (now being completely wasted on bailouts and so called "stimulus" packages) would be money much better spent in the long run with benefits to the economy and country that are more concrete and long lasting. Just an idea. Eisboch Reduce government regulation at the local, state and federal levels and cut long term capital gains to 5%. Let businesses be businesses and not bureaucracies. Get the current capital in the market working again. |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
BAR wrote:
Eisboch wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:31:44 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: State run SBA *is* too small. I am proposing a temporary federal version of SBA to get things started, funded by the already approved bailout funding. Eisboch Have you seen what the federal gov't did with the program it initiated to help victims rebuild their homes in NO? Yikes. Bureaucrats are good at layering bull**** between good intentions and execution. The mistake made there was depending on a bureaucratic government to execute the details of the program. The government is good at approving and allocating money, that's all. Make the funding available to hands-on people that know how to get things done. Normally, I wouldn't even propose federal funding for new company start-ups (or even SBA loans) because I think learning how to self-fund a company is as important as the product or service you provide. However, given the crisis that currently exists and the increase in un-employment, a temporary avenue for start-up funding using federal money (now being completely wasted on bailouts and so called "stimulus" packages) would be money much better spent in the long run with benefits to the economy and country that are more concrete and long lasting. Just an idea. Eisboch Reduce government regulation at the local, state and federal levels and cut long term capital gains to 5%. Let businesses be businesses and not bureaucracies. Get the current capital in the market working again. YES |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
BAR wrote:
Eisboch wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:31:44 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: State run SBA *is* too small. I am proposing a temporary federal version of SBA to get things started, funded by the already approved bailout funding. Eisboch Have you seen what the federal gov't did with the program it initiated to help victims rebuild their homes in NO? Yikes. Bureaucrats are good at layering bull**** between good intentions and execution. The mistake made there was depending on a bureaucratic government to execute the details of the program. The government is good at approving and allocating money, that's all. Make the funding available to hands-on people that know how to get things done. Normally, I wouldn't even propose federal funding for new company start-ups (or even SBA loans) because I think learning how to self-fund a company is as important as the product or service you provide. However, given the crisis that currently exists and the increase in un-employment, a temporary avenue for start-up funding using federal money (now being completely wasted on bailouts and so called "stimulus" packages) would be money much better spent in the long run with benefits to the economy and country that are more concrete and long lasting. Just an idea. Eisboch Reduce government regulation at the local, state and federal levels and cut long term capital gains to 5%. Let businesses be businesses and not bureaucracies. Get the current capital in the market working again. We've had eight years of little or no regulation...no thanks. We're supposed to trust business to do the right thing, when its motivation seems to be greed and short-term profit? The behavior of business gives me no warm and fuzzy feelings we should return to the 19th century. |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 02:20:22 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote: Here's my proposal. Forget about big business bailouts and stimulus checks/tax relief programs to private individuals. Establish a federal version of the state small business administration (SBA) programs and use a fraction of the bailout monies being spent on bailouts to provide start-up funding or growth funding for small businesses nation-wide. This is where 80 percent of the population works. Some of those who have lost jobs will apply for start-up funding to create new ones. Obviously not all new businesses will make it, but those that do will hire more people, many from the unemployed ranks. Small businesses are better suited to focus on new technologies, green programs, or service sector areas anyway because they don't have the diverse baggage to carry like big business. A recovery won't be fast, but it will be based on a solid footing and will open the door to re-establish manufacturing in the US Yabbut... The point that everybody is missing is this; we are at a nexus point - a historical confluence of events that is shifting the course of human events. We will not be able to control it because it's ineffable - it can't be described becasue nobody truly understands it or what will happen when it finally changes the historical dynamic. It's not like it hasn't happened before - discovery of the wheel, the discovery of the concept of zero, printing press, scientific revolution, industrial revolution, etc. Where we, as humans, make the mistake is in trying to control events and make them conform to us - it's an essential element of human nature. This time there are major convergences of historical imperatives - cultural, social and economic. In the past, these events have led to major wars and it will probably happen this time. This is important to understand - we have no say in the matter. We cannot change the historical imperative no matter how we try. Upheaval is necessary for progress otherwise we stagnate. Expand or die. It's as simple as that. -- Honesty is the best policy, but insanity is a better defense. |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
"Wizard of Woodstock" wrote in message ... On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 02:20:22 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: Here's my proposal. Forget about big business bailouts and stimulus checks/tax relief programs to private individuals. Establish a federal version of the state small business administration (SBA) programs and use a fraction of the bailout monies being spent on bailouts to provide start-up funding or growth funding for small businesses nation-wide. This is where 80 percent of the population works. Some of those who have lost jobs will apply for start-up funding to create new ones. Obviously not all new businesses will make it, but those that do will hire more people, many from the unemployed ranks. Small businesses are better suited to focus on new technologies, green programs, or service sector areas anyway because they don't have the diverse baggage to carry like big business. A recovery won't be fast, but it will be based on a solid footing and will open the door to re-establish manufacturing in the US Yabbut... The point that everybody is missing is this; we are at a nexus point - a historical confluence of events that is shifting the course of human events. We will not be able to control it because it's ineffable - it can't be described becasue nobody truly understands it or what will happen when it finally changes the historical dynamic. It's not like it hasn't happened before - discovery of the wheel, the discovery of the concept of zero, printing press, scientific revolution, industrial revolution, etc. Where we, as humans, make the mistake is in trying to control events and make them conform to us - it's an essential element of human nature. This time there are major convergences of historical imperatives - cultural, social and economic. In the past, these events have led to major wars and it will probably happen this time. This is important to understand - we have no say in the matter. We cannot change the historical imperative no matter how we try. Upheaval is necessary for progress otherwise we stagnate. Expand or die. It's as simple as that. I don't know about that. Like many I like to eat, nexus point or no nexus point. Eisboch |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
hk wrote:
BAR wrote: Eisboch wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:31:44 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: State run SBA *is* too small. I am proposing a temporary federal version of SBA to get things started, funded by the already approved bailout funding. Eisboch Have you seen what the federal gov't did with the program it initiated to help victims rebuild their homes in NO? Yikes. Bureaucrats are good at layering bull**** between good intentions and execution. The mistake made there was depending on a bureaucratic government to execute the details of the program. The government is good at approving and allocating money, that's all. Make the funding available to hands-on people that know how to get things done. Normally, I wouldn't even propose federal funding for new company start-ups (or even SBA loans) because I think learning how to self-fund a company is as important as the product or service you provide. However, given the crisis that currently exists and the increase in un-employment, a temporary avenue for start-up funding using federal money (now being completely wasted on bailouts and so called "stimulus" packages) would be money much better spent in the long run with benefits to the economy and country that are more concrete and long lasting. Just an idea. Eisboch Reduce government regulation at the local, state and federal levels and cut long term capital gains to 5%. Let businesses be businesses and not bureaucracies. Get the current capital in the market working again. We've had eight years of little or no regulation...no thanks. We're supposed to trust business to do the right thing, when its motivation seems to be greed and short-term profit? The behavior of business gives me no warm and fuzzy feelings we should return to the 19th century. When you have to come up with a recycling plan before you can open your doors but, there is nobody who will pick up your recyclable materials because they can't sell them. The cost of new materials is cheaper than the recycled materials yet you are forced to recycle. The trash guys won't haul away recyclable materials because it is illegal for them to do so you have to pay somebody an exorbitant amount of money to come and get your recyclable materials which are going to sit in a pile and become a fire hazard. Why, it is just a waste of time and money. My wife's lab has to file all kinds of paperwork with the county due to the fact that she has some chemicals, most of them are less than 1 liter and none are more than 2 liters. This puts her lab on the lowest level of hazmat. But, because she can only buy mercury in 50 lb packages it moves her up to near superfund site level. It takes her about 10 or 12 years to go through 50 pounds of mercury. You should see all of the paper work she has to do just because of that. |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
"Wizard of Woodstock" wrote in message ... On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 02:20:22 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: Here's my proposal. Forget about big business bailouts and stimulus checks/tax relief programs to private individuals. Establish a federal version of the state small business administration (SBA) programs and use a fraction of the bailout monies being spent on bailouts to provide start-up funding or growth funding for small businesses nation-wide. This is where 80 percent of the population works. Some of those who have lost jobs will apply for start-up funding to create new ones. Obviously not all new businesses will make it, but those that do will hire more people, many from the unemployed ranks. Small businesses are better suited to focus on new technologies, green programs, or service sector areas anyway because they don't have the diverse baggage to carry like big business. A recovery won't be fast, but it will be based on a solid footing and will open the door to re-establish manufacturing in the US Yabbut... The point that everybody is missing is this; we are at a nexus point - a historical confluence of events that is shifting the course of human events. We will not be able to control it because it's ineffable - it can't be described becasue nobody truly understands it or what will happen when it finally changes the historical dynamic. It's not like it hasn't happened before - discovery of the wheel, the discovery of the concept of zero, printing press, scientific revolution, industrial revolution, etc. Where we, as humans, make the mistake is in trying to control events and make them conform to us - it's an essential element of human nature. This time there are major convergences of historical imperatives - cultural, social and economic. In the past, these events have led to major wars and it will probably happen this time. This is important to understand - we have no say in the matter. We cannot change the historical imperative no matter how we try. Upheaval is necessary for progress otherwise we stagnate. Expand or die. It's as simple as that. BTW, just for giggles, (well, maybe not just for giggles) I drafted up a simple suggestive proposal, expanded and clarified the concept slightly, and emailed it to Obama's transition team charged with economic matters. It's will be interesting if they read and/or respond. For Jim: The problem with state run SBA programs are that they are more geared towards existing small businesses in need of expansion funding. In addition, most states right now are cutting back on expenditures and services and funding via that route may become scarce. The state of the national economy qualifies as an emergency and that's the responsibility of the Federal government and their pocketbook. It's will be interesting if they read and/or respond. Eisboch |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
Eisboch wrote:
"jps" wrote in message ... If I were you I'd be wishing him the best and godspeed since you and everyone of your family members will be affected by such. I was not a supporter of Obama, but I certainly agree with with your comment. He needs all the help he can get. The problems we face are too great for one person and his staff to deal with. I just hope he remains as open to different ideas as he currently claims to be. I think Tom has expressed the same sentiment of support in the past. Eisboch I do wish Obama Godspeed and that he is successful in solving all problems. If you have read any of Harry's post, you would have seen he has been very forthright in wanting our economy to tank, so the Dem's would have a political advantage. I have not seen anyone else make a similar statement about Obama's administration. |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 07:35:29 -0500, hk wrote:
BAR wrote: Eisboch wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:31:44 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: State run SBA *is* too small. I am proposing a temporary federal version of SBA to get things started, funded by the already approved bailout funding. Eisboch Have you seen what the federal gov't did with the program it initiated to help victims rebuild their homes in NO? Yikes. Bureaucrats are good at layering bull**** between good intentions and execution. The mistake made there was depending on a bureaucratic government to execute the details of the program. The government is good at approving and allocating money, that's all. Make the funding available to hands-on people that know how to get things done. Normally, I wouldn't even propose federal funding for new company start-ups (or even SBA loans) because I think learning how to self-fund a company is as important as the product or service you provide. However, given the crisis that currently exists and the increase in un-employment, a temporary avenue for start-up funding using federal money (now being completely wasted on bailouts and so called "stimulus" packages) would be money much better spent in the long run with benefits to the economy and country that are more concrete and long lasting. Just an idea. Eisboch Reduce government regulation at the local, state and federal levels and cut long term capital gains to 5%. Let businesses be businesses and not bureaucracies. Get the current capital in the market working again. We've had eight years of little or no regulation...no thanks. We're supposed to trust business to do the right thing, when its motivation seems to be greed and short-term profit? The behavior of business gives me no warm and fuzzy feelings we should return to the 19th century. The year was 1980. Runny Nose Raygun had the same plan. Deregulate and prop up business.The Hunt brothers had done the unbelievable, cornered the silver market. Today it's oil. I wish Runny Nose was still alive making Nancy's life miserable. She deserves it from the way she listened to her soothsayers to run things from behind the curtain. Nothing new here folks, move along! Old plans sound familiar that's all. The plan that worked brought three terms to a president. Make work even though it was CCC. Collaborate with other politicians to start a world war in the end. One with heros that everyone knew their name. Not caskets hidden from view. The fifties seem like the good ol' days. A return to the roaring twenties. The circle begins a new loop. How does Hooverville sound or just "Jerk-Bush". |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
"RLM" wrote in message ... The plan that worked brought three terms to a president. Make work even though it was CCC. Collaborate with other politicians to start a world war in the end. One with heros that everyone knew their name. Not caskets hidden from view. Right. Any other worthwhile thoughts? Eisboch |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 08:27:15 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote: BTW, just for giggles, (well, maybe not just for giggles) I drafted up a simple suggestive proposal, expanded and clarified the concept slightly, and emailed it to Obama's transition team charged with economic matters. I liked it, although I'd take it one step further. To wit: back date a capital gains tax reduction on real estate - like zero or reduction to 2-3 percent. Date it back to 2005. That would be a real stimulus - not the phoney baloney one we had six months ago. -- Real engineers don't document - If it was hard to design, it should be hard to understand. |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 10:38:28 -0500, Eisboch wrote:
"RLM" wrote in message ... The plan that worked brought three terms to a president. Make work even though it was CCC. Collaborate with other politicians to start a world war in the end. One with heros that everyone knew their name. Not caskets hidden from view. Right. Any other worthwhile thoughts? Eisboch I don't buy, Let's get them to fall for the same game plan that got us in this mess. |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
On Jan 11, 4:10*pm, wrote:
On Jan 11, 4:00*pm, hk wrote: BAR wrote: Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=6617979 Oh is he giong to learn a lesson... It is Carter II filled with Clinton retreads. Obama has gone from a Hope and Change message in his campaign to a everybody is going to have to suffer in order to make it better message. *He now sounds like the communist party leaders telling everyone that the workers paradise is just around the corner and there is just a little bit more suffering that you have to endure. Nobody wants to hear that let alone live through it. Obama is in way over his head. If you were cleaning out porti-potties, you'd be in over yours.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - He is an empty suit. He has no clue, and never did... * It will be fun to watch him slide into the background of the new Clinton administration. *He has never run anything, he is a racist, this ought to be fun...- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You think it will be fun IF because of the last eight years of mismanagement the country goes deeper into recession, war, etc???? |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
On Jan 12, 12:54*pm, wrote:
On Jan 11, 4:10*pm, wrote: On Jan 11, 4:00*pm, hk wrote: BAR wrote: Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=6617979 Oh is he giong to learn a lesson... It is Carter II filled with Clinton retreads. Obama has gone from a Hope and Change message in his campaign to a everybody is going to have to suffer in order to make it better message. *He now sounds like the communist party leaders telling everyone that the workers paradise is just around the corner and there is just a little bit more suffering that you have to endure. Nobody wants to hear that let alone live through it. Obama is in way over his head. If you were cleaning out porti-potties, you'd be in over yours.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - He is an empty suit. He has no clue, and never did... * It will be fun to watch him slide into the background of the new Clinton administration. *He has never run anything, he is a racist, this ought to be fun...- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You think it will be fun IF because of the last eight years of mismanagement the country goes deeper into recession, war, etc????- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - 8 years is a DNC talking point.. if you look at the numbers, things were hanging in until Pelosi and Reid produced the most corrupt congress in history.. Spent their time promoting crims like William Jefferson and going after Bush admin folks for picking their noses instead of doing their jobs... |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:24:20 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote: "jps" wrote in message .. . If I were you I'd be wishing him the best and godspeed since you and everyone of your family members will be affected by such. I was not a supporter of Obama, but I certainly agree with with your comment. He needs all the help he can get. The problems we face are too great for one person and his staff to deal with. I just hope he remains as open to different ideas as he currently claims to be. I think Tom has expressed the same sentiment of support in the past. Hey - he will be the President. Unlike some others, I do wish him success. The President is the President -we, as a nation, sink or swim with the decisions he will make. Unlike those on the left who had a hissy fit when W was elected. I wonder if any Os will be removed from keyboards when Obama takes office? Somehow I doubt it - conservatives have too much respect for the office. -- "I have tried to know absolutely nothing about a great many things, and I have succeeded fairly well." Robert Benchley |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:57:15 -0800 (PST),
wrote: On Jan 11, 9:47*pm, Tim wrote: On Jan 11, 7:06*pm, BAR wrote: hk wrote: Eisboch wrote: "Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in messagenews:gvhkm4pk9keadf19ct0g6d3ob3hp88hsn1@4ax .com... http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=6617979 Oh is he giong to learn a lesson... Just think. *Using Harry and Vic's logic, Obama's legacy will be that he presided over the worst economic recession in the history of the USA. There's probably also a 50/50 chance of a shooting war with Iran. Eisboch At the moment, both situations he is inheriting from the worst president in at least the last 80 years, and perhaps the worst ever. Once Obama takes the oath of office and the unemployment numbers rise they are his unemployment numbers because they occurred on his watch. Once the debt rises it is Obama's recession. You can't changes the rules because your guy is sitting behind the big desk. Yes, there was plenty of "The Towers fell on Bush's watch" But it won't happen this time. It'll be reversed. http://hamous.org/images/obama.gif- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - It will be 4 years of protecting Frank, Dodd, and the rest of the crims for the collapse of the economy. Wow. You've either got a hell of an imagination or you're willing to drink that right-wing kool-aide by the gallon. There are many hands in this debacle so to only name two Dems (who have at most a tiny role in the situation) shows how tilted you are. IOW, your opinion is both worthless and laughable. |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
jps wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:57:15 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Jan 11, 9:47 pm, Tim wrote: On Jan 11, 7:06 pm, BAR wrote: hk wrote: Eisboch wrote: "Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in messagenews:gvhkm4pk9keadf19ct0g6d3ob3hp88hsn1@4ax .com... http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=6617979 Oh is he giong to learn a lesson... Just think. Using Harry and Vic's logic, Obama's legacy will be that he presided over the worst economic recession in the history of the USA. There's probably also a 50/50 chance of a shooting war with Iran. Eisboch At the moment, both situations he is inheriting from the worst president in at least the last 80 years, and perhaps the worst ever. Once Obama takes the oath of office and the unemployment numbers rise they are his unemployment numbers because they occurred on his watch. Once the debt rises it is Obama's recession. You can't changes the rules because your guy is sitting behind the big desk. Yes, there was plenty of "The Towers fell on Bush's watch" But it won't happen this time. It'll be reversed. http://hamous.org/images/obama.gif- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - It will be 4 years of protecting Frank, Dodd, and the rest of the crims for the collapse of the economy. Wow. You've either got a hell of an imagination or you're willing to drink that right-wing kool-aide by the gallon. There are many hands in this debacle so to only name two Dems (who have at most a tiny role in the situation) shows how tilted you are. IOW, your opinion is both worthless and laughable. Worthless and Laughable...a perfect handle for JustHate. |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:42:41 GMT, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote: On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:24:20 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: "jps" wrote in message . .. If I were you I'd be wishing him the best and godspeed since you and everyone of your family members will be affected by such. I was not a supporter of Obama, but I certainly agree with with your comment. He needs all the help he can get. The problems we face are too great for one person and his staff to deal with. I just hope he remains as open to different ideas as he currently claims to be. I think Tom has expressed the same sentiment of support in the past. Hey - he will be the President. Unlike some others, I do wish him success. The President is the President -we, as a nation, sink or swim with the decisions he will make. Unlike those on the left who had a hissy fit when W was elected. I wonder if any Os will be removed from keyboards when Obama takes office? Somehow I doubt it - conservatives have too much respect for the office. OMG! How about the constitution? How do Republicans feel about that? Eavesdropping on citizens while circumventing FISA Torturing while insisting we don't Gutting clean air and water protections Selling off sensitive lands in the public trust to mining and oil Politicizing the office of the Attorneys General No bid contracts that the office of the VP controlled Lies perpetuated to get us into a false war with 4000+ dead You want to talk about missing keys on a keyboard? Holy ****. |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:09:13 -0800, jps wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:42:41 GMT, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:24:20 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... If I were you I'd be wishing him the best and godspeed since you and everyone of your family members will be affected by such. I was not a supporter of Obama, but I certainly agree with with your comment. He needs all the help he can get. The problems we face are too great for one person and his staff to deal with. I just hope he remains as open to different ideas as he currently claims to be. I think Tom has expressed the same sentiment of support in the past. Hey - he will be the President. Unlike some others, I do wish him success. The President is the President -we, as a nation, sink or swim with the decisions he will make. Unlike those on the left who had a hissy fit when W was elected. I wonder if any Os will be removed from keyboards when Obama takes office? Somehow I doubt it - conservatives have too much respect for the office. OMG! How about the constitution? How do Republicans feel about that? Eavesdropping on citizens while circumventing FISA Torturing while insisting we don't Gutting clean air and water protections Selling off sensitive lands in the public trust to mining and oil Politicizing the office of the Attorneys General No bid contracts that the office of the VP controlled Lies perpetuated to get us into a false war with 4000+ dead You want to talk about missing keys on a keyboard? Holy ****. ZZZZZOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMM......... -- Math illiteracy affects 8 out of every 5 people. |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
On Jan 12, 5:09*pm, jps wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:42:41 GMT, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:24:20 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: "jps" wrote in message . .. If I were you I'd be wishing him the best and godspeed *since you and everyone of your family members will be affected by such. I was not a supporter of Obama, but I certainly agree with with your comment. He needs all the help he can get. *The problems we face are too great for one person and his staff to deal with. *I just hope he remains as open to different ideas as he currently claims to be. I think Tom has expressed the same sentiment of support in the past. Hey - he will be the President. *Unlike some others, I do wish him success. *The President is the President -we, as a nation, sink or swim with the decisions he will make. Unlike those on the left who had a hissy fit when W was elected. I wonder if any Os will be removed from keyboards when Obama takes office? Somehow I doubt it - conservatives have too much respect for the office. OMG! *How about the constitution? *How do Republicans feel about that? Eavesdropping on citizens while circumventing FISA Torturing while insisting we don't Gutting clean air and water protections Selling off sensitive lands in the public trust to mining and oil Politicizing the office of the Attorneys General No bid contracts that the office of the VP controlled Lies perpetuated to get us into a false war with 4000+ dead You want to talk about missing keys on a keyboard? Holy ****.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You are a dumb ****. How about Clinton selling China all of our nuke and rocket tech for 3 million in campaign money.. and as to the "no bid contracts", that is disingenuious... Clinton used the very same company in the Balkans, with "no bids", but that really has more to do with there only being one company in the whole world that can do that type or work... You far left loons lock onto anything the DNC puts out, despite the facts... Try bringing real facts to the table, not just the latest from Jon Stewart and Saturday Night live.. Dolt.. |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:09:13 -0800, jps wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:42:41 GMT, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:24:20 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... If I were you I'd be wishing him the best and godspeed since you and everyone of your family members will be affected by such. I was not a supporter of Obama, but I certainly agree with with your comment. He needs all the help he can get. The problems we face are too great for one person and his staff to deal with. I just hope he remains as open to different ideas as he currently claims to be. I think Tom has expressed the same sentiment of support in the past. Hey - he will be the President. Unlike some others, I do wish him success. The President is the President -we, as a nation, sink or swim with the decisions he will make. Unlike those on the left who had a hissy fit when W was elected. I wonder if any Os will be removed from keyboards when Obama takes office? Somehow I doubt it - conservatives have too much respect for the office. OMG! How about the constitution? How do Republicans feel about that? Eavesdropping on citizens while circumventing FISA Torturing while insisting we don't Gutting clean air and water protections Selling off sensitive lands in the public trust to mining and oil Politicizing the office of the Attorneys General No bid contracts that the office of the VP controlled Lies perpetuated to get us into a false war with 4000+ dead You want to talk about missing keys on a keyboard? Holy ****. Here - read up. http://www.constitution.org/powright.htm Don't see nuttin' in there that relates to your opinion. Sorry - you lose. However I'm magnanimous in victory - I will only require a public apology from you for using offensive language. :) -- "I am free of all prejudices. I hate every one equally." W.C. Fields |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
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I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:27:46 -0800, jps wrote:
Much bull**** snipped. Oh, and lets not forget leaving New Orleans to fend for itself... Bull****. |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
"John H" wrote in message ... On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:27:46 -0800, jps wrote: Much bull**** snipped. Oh, and lets not forget leaving New Orleans to fend for itself... Bull****. Olbermann is on now drooling in delight as he picks apart Bush's comments during his last press conference. Commenting on Bush's remarks that 30,000 people were plucked from the rooftops of houses immediately following the storm, Olbermann sneered and made a statement to the effect, that those were coast guard rescue choppers working in the local region and had nothing to do with your, Mr. President. They then went to file footage showing green, Army helicopters with Army people rescuing people from the rooftops. Oh, Mr. Olbermann .... Coast Guard choppers are white with red markings. Those were the local guys. The green choppers were Army ... sent at Bush's insistence even though the dumb local government dragged their feet in asking for federal aid. I can't stand this guy. Eisboch |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:29:09 -0800, jps wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 23:06:16 GMT, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: However I'm magnanimous in victory - I will only require a public apology from you for using offensive language. :) I'm sorry your family has to put up with your politics... Actually the whole bunch of them find me to be a fascinating person with some rather strange views on the universe and humanities place in it. They also know that while I have views vastly different from theirs on many issues of the day, I cherish them beyond words and that our differences are just that - differences. I belong to them and they belong to me - family trumps everything. Besides family dinners would be pretty freakin' boring if everybody agreed on everything. :) -- "Never fight an inanimate object." P.J. O'Rourke |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:00:23 -0700, "RG" wrote:
Logic? Politics isn't logic. Don't know why you lump *me* with Harry. Not logical. I'm not the one that engages him in "logical" conversations, as you tend to do. On that score I recommend you heed Einstein's definition of "insanity." (-: Anyway, since I'm a retired computer systems analyst, I know a bit about logic. And yet the concept of word-wrap and the proper use of the Enter key on your keyboard completely eludes you. Since you're the only one who has reported suffering the problem, and since for years word wrap and a line length of 70 chars has been set on my news agent (Agent) and since I do know how to us the enter key, my logic tells me the problem is on your end. But if anybody else is seeing what you're seeing, let me know. I'll try to fix it. Even if I have to hex it. --Vic |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 02:20:22 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote: "Vic Smith" wrote in message .. . I know. But on Jan 21 we can blame it all on Obama according to your logic. Seriously, we are in bad shape. Not sure there is a way to recover. I need to think about this some more. Do that and get back to me. I'm going to make a cup of coffee. Should be enough time for you to work it out. --Vic I used the word "logic" to refer to your previous acknowledgement that you hold the sitting POTUS responsible for whatever the current state of affairs is. So does Harry. That's why you were lumped together. Perhaps I should have used the word "illogical". :-) Yabut. You may have noticed Obama is being blamed already. And he's not even prez yet! Anyway, we'll see how logic stands up to politics and the blame game soon enough. Ok. Back from thinking. Here's the dilemma and my idea. According to the economic think tank panel on the CNN presentation, the prime reason for the economic mess we are in is our credit card mentality. It goes way beyond credit cards however. We want, so we buy with money we don't have. Sub-prime mortgages follows the same mentality and brought the life style problem to a head. The (almost) unanimous recommendation of the panel was for the country to return to a post depression mentality and concentrate on savings. People who lived through the depression learned a lesson and were much more fugal in their spending habits, putting money away for a rainy day. Somewhere along the line we shifted away from this mentality, and got into a buy now, pay later style of living. Saving for the future changed it's meaning to 401k investment planning, relying on others for a secure future. But now, here's the current problem in trying to recover from this mess: The government's solution is to encourage us to spend more now. The "stimulus" programs are intended to encourage spending. This is 180 degrees out of phase of what most conservative economic experts recommend and continues the "I want it now" mentality. It probably won't work because smart people *are* concerned and will most will put any extra money received through give a ways or tax reductions into savings. Here's my proposal. Forget about big business bailouts and stimulus checks/tax relief programs to private individuals. Establish a federal version of the state small business administration (SBA) programs and use a fraction of the bailout monies being spent on bailouts to provide start-up funding or growth funding for small businesses nation-wide. This is where 80 percent of the population works. Some of those who have lost jobs will apply for start-up funding to create new ones. Obviously not all new businesses will make it, but those that do will hire more people, many from the unemployed ranks. Small businesses are better suited to focus on new technologies, green programs, or service sector areas anyway because they don't have the diverse baggage to carry like big business. A recovery won't be fast, but it will be based on a solid footing and will open the door to re-establish manufacturing in the US. It's good to see somebody giving it serious thought, and you mentioned manufacturing, which *nobody* in the elite is doing in a broad sense. They just ignore balance of trade. With all the talk of a "green economy" and Detroit picking up some of the manufacturing for it, it's still not making sense. What's to keep the Chinese from jumping headlong into making windmills, solar panels, etc., at half the cost? You're going to have all the globalists, and that includes Obama, kowtowing to the WTO. You just can't survive is a "strong" fashion without manufacturing most of your own goods, and we aren't even close anymore. Tom has mentioned, and I've mentioned that it's a new world with globalism. Drastic upheavals are in store. If the upheavals take a nationalist path, we won't have cheap foreign toys anymore, but we will be a stronger nation. If we continue on the globalist path, we will wither away. That's how I see it. Most the current national pols are globalists. Let's see what Obama does about H1B visas for instance, and the other alphabet soup of visas that cost America jobs. I've seen the H1B's virtually destroy a sector of U.S. IT. Then you have the "hunger" factor with American management. They got fat and happy, and forgot what hard work is, preferring to offshore their responsibilities. I've seen this up close, and it's another manifestation of globalism. And I'm not talking about the money grubbers after bonus money for cutting costs, but the sharp guys in technical management who built the businesses but just don't want to do the hard work anymore. Globalism found this a fertile area just as these guys reached the lay-back-and-relax stage. The rest of the world is hungrier than us. --Vic |
I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
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I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
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I'll give him four years -he won't get reelected...
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