On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 19:27:49 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 08:57:23 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

Took my daughter kayaking yesterday with my wife and I in the canoe
and Katie in her kayak. Went in the salt marshes on the Gulf coast
here (N. FL). We got out into an area maybe 1/4 mile wide when fog
started coming in and I decided to hug shore justb in case. Sure
enough, very quickly you could barely see 50'. We easily got back by
following the shore but if we had been out in the middle, it would
have been a problem. I did not have my compass that I normally carry
in my sailing bag. From now on, compass goes with me on all trips.

I keep an old boy scout style compass with me wherever I am on the
water. In the boat it is handy for tracking storms. Shoot a real
bearing on the edge of the cloud you are concerned about and check it
again a few minutes later. That will tell you which way it is moving,
relative to your course.
In a "bail out" situation, a compass will help me navigate through the
mangroves so I can walk home.

In a bail out situation, a portable GPS is going to be a hell of a lot
more informative than a compass.

Although I do carry a compass, I also carry a small portable GPS -
Magellan Triton 200.

http://www.magellangps.com/products/....asp?segID=425


--

"An idealist is one who, on noticing that
a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes
that it will also make better soup."

H.L. Mencken

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 20:35:50 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 19:59:03 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 19:27:49 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 08:57:23 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

Took my daughter kayaking yesterday with my wife and I in the canoe
and Katie in her kayak. Went in the salt marshes on the Gulf coast
here (N. FL). We got out into an area maybe 1/4 mile wide when fog
started coming in and I decided to hug shore justb in case. Sure
enough, very quickly you could barely see 50'. We easily got back by
following the shore but if we had been out in the middle, it would
have been a problem. I did not have my compass that I normally carry
in my sailing bag. From now on, compass goes with me on all trips.

I keep an old boy scout style compass with me wherever I am on the
water. In the boat it is handy for tracking storms. Shoot a real
bearing on the edge of the cloud you are concerned about and check it
again a few minutes later. That will tell you which way it is moving,
relative to your course.
In a "bail out" situation, a compass will help me navigate through the
mangroves so I can walk home.

In a bail out situation, a portable GPS is going to be a hell of a lot
more informative than a compass.

Although I do carry a compass, I also carry a small portable GPS -
Magellan Triton 200.

http://www.magellangps.com/products/....asp?segID=425

Never had a dead battery in my compass ;-)

True enough, but you don't need to keep the GPS up and running the
whole time either.

A good set of batteries and a set of spares can last you a couple of
weeks if you use the GPS properly in an emergency situation.

But your point is well taken - a compass doesn't require a lot of
skill.

Although, just to make a point, a lot of people don't understand the
difference between True and Magnetic North and that can lead to
diaster in and of itself.
--

Happy Holidays and Merry Whatever It Is
That ****es Liberals Off.

On Jan 4, 9:08 pm, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 20:35:50 -0500, wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 19:59:03 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 19:27:49 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 08:57:23 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

Took my daughter kayaking yesterday with my wife and I in the canoe
and Katie in her kayak. Went in the salt marshes on the Gulf coast
here (N. FL). We got out into an area maybe 1/4 mile wide when fog
started coming in and I decided to hug shore justb in case. Sure
enough, very quickly you could barely see 50'. We easily got back by
following the shore but if we had been out in the middle, it would
have been a problem. I did not have my compass that I normally carry
in my sailing bag. From now on, compass goes with me on all trips.

I keep an old boy scout style compass with me wherever I am on the
water. In the boat it is handy for tracking storms. Shoot a real
bearing on the edge of the cloud you are concerned about and check it
again a few minutes later. That will tell you which way it is moving,
relative to your course.
In a "bail out" situation, a compass will help me navigate through the
mangroves so I can walk home.

In a bail out situation, a portable GPS is going to be a hell of a lot
more informative than a compass.

Although I do carry a compass, I also carry a small portable GPS -
Magellan Triton 200.

http://www.magellangps.com/products/....asp?segID=425

Never had a dead battery in my compass ;-)

True enough, but you don't need to keep the GPS up and running the
whole time either.

A good set of batteries and a set of spares can last you a couple of
weeks if you use the GPS properly in an emergency situation.

But your point is well taken - a compass doesn't require a lot of
skill.

Although, just to make a point, a lot of people don't understand the
difference between True and Magnetic North and that can lead to
diaster in and of itself.
--

Happy Holidays and Merry Whatever It Is
That ****es Liberals Off.

Being somewhat of a "high Tech Luddite", I also prefer my compass to
GPS and would pack it before the GPS. I can almost instantly use the
compass to take a bearing on something to be sure I have cleared a
potential obstacle. Being a trigonometry geek, I just think
navigating with a compass and taking bearings is just elegant.
BTW, also being a caver, GPS doesnt work in caves, compass does.

On Jan 4, 10:06*pm, Frogwatch wrote:
On Jan 4, 9:08 pm, Tom Francis - SWSports





wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 20:35:50 -0500, wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 19:59:03 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 19:27:49 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 08:57:23 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

Took my daughter kayaking yesterday with my wife and I in the canoe
and Katie in her kayak. *Went in the salt marshes on the Gulf coast
here (N. FL). *We got out into an area maybe 1/4 mile wide when fog
started coming in and I decided to hug shore justb in case. *Sure
enough, very quickly you could barely see 50'. *We easily got back by
following the shore but if we had been out in the middle, it would
have been a problem. *I did not have my compass that I normally carry
in my sailing bag. *From now on, compass goes with me on all trips.

I keep an old boy scout style compass with me wherever I am on the
water. In the boat it is handy for tracking storms. Shoot a real
bearing on the edge of the cloud you are concerned about and check it
again a few minutes later. That will tell you which way it is moving,
relative to your course.
In a "bail out" situation, a compass will help me navigate through the
mangroves so I can walk home.

In a bail out situation, a portable GPS is going to be a hell of a lot
more informative than a compass.

Although I do carry a compass, I also carry a small portable GPS -
Magellan Triton 200.

http://www.magellangps.com/products/....asp?segID=425

Never had a dead battery in my compass * ;-)

True enough, but you don't need to keep the GPS up and running the
whole time either.

A good set of batteries and a set of spares can last you a couple of
weeks if you use the GPS properly in an emergency situation.

But your point is well taken - a compass doesn't require a lot of
skill.

Although, just to make a point, a lot of people don't understand the
difference between True and Magnetic North and that can lead to
diaster in and of itself.
--

Happy Holidays and Merry Whatever It Is
That ****es Liberals Off.

Being somewhat of a "high Tech Luddite", *I also prefer my compass to
GPS and would pack it before the GPS. *I can almost instantly use the
compass to take a bearing on something to be sure I have cleared a
potential obstacle. *Being a trigonometry geek, I just think
navigating with a compass and taking bearings is just elegant.
BTW, also being a caver, GPS doesnt work in caves, compass does.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It's a little off topic but have you ever tried the Microsoft Flight
simulator we have noted here lately. All the nav beacons work and you
can plot and navigate with them, it's pretty cool... You might find it
interesting if you like "navigating with a compass" is cool.

When I was young I was a Scout and specialized in helping the younger
scouts get their woods badges. We used a compass and a topo map to get
around the open hiking areas, it was pretty cool too...

On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 19:06:23 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

On Jan 4, 9:08 pm, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 20:35:50 -0500, wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 19:59:03 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 19:27:49 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 08:57:23 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

Took my daughter kayaking yesterday with my wife and I in the canoe
and Katie in her kayak. Went in the salt marshes on the Gulf coast
here (N. FL). We got out into an area maybe 1/4 mile wide when fog
started coming in and I decided to hug shore justb in case. Sure
enough, very quickly you could barely see 50'. We easily got back by
following the shore but if we had been out in the middle, it would
have been a problem. I did not have my compass that I normally carry
in my sailing bag. From now on, compass goes with me on all trips.

I keep an old boy scout style compass with me wherever I am on the
water. In the boat it is handy for tracking storms. Shoot a real
bearing on the edge of the cloud you are concerned about and check it
again a few minutes later. That will tell you which way it is moving,
relative to your course.
In a "bail out" situation, a compass will help me navigate through the
mangroves so I can walk home.

In a bail out situation, a portable GPS is going to be a hell of a lot
more informative than a compass.

Although I do carry a compass, I also carry a small portable GPS -
Magellan Triton 200.

http://www.magellangps.com/products/....asp?segID=425

Never had a dead battery in my compass ;-)

True enough, but you don't need to keep the GPS up and running the
whole time either.

A good set of batteries and a set of spares can last you a couple of
weeks if you use the GPS properly in an emergency situation.

But your point is well taken - a compass doesn't require a lot of
skill.

Although, just to make a point, a lot of people don't understand the
difference between True and Magnetic North and that can lead to
diaster in and of itself.
--

Happy Holidays and Merry Whatever It Is
That ****es Liberals Off.

Being somewhat of a "high Tech Luddite", I also prefer my compass to
GPS and would pack it before the GPS. I can almost instantly use the
compass to take a bearing on something to be sure I have cleared a
potential obstacle. Being a trigonometry geek, I just think
navigating with a compass and taking bearings is just elegant.

True and it's a skill one should keep sharp. I still prefer to have a
GPS to give an exact location to emergency responders should the need
arrive.

A compass isn't gonig to tell you where you are - it's going to give
you a direction and it will certainly give you bearings to nearest
"features" if you will, but it will not tell you exactly where you are
in an emergency. You can form a "box" in which you are in a general
"area" if you will with a compass, it still doesn't pin point your
exact location.

BTW, also being a caver, GPS doesnt work in caves, compass does.

That's something I had not considered - caving.

Then again, that's a different application - we're talking about
bailing out of a boat.

--

"Every normal man must be tempted at times
to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag,
and begin to slit throats."

H. L. Mencken

On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 00:07:18 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 19:06:23 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

Being somewhat of a "high Tech Luddite", I also prefer my compass to
GPS and would pack it before the GPS. I can almost instantly use the
compass to take a bearing on something to be sure I have cleared a
potential obstacle. Being a trigonometry geek, I just think
navigating with a compass and taking bearings is just elegant.
BTW, also being a caver, GPS doesnt work in caves, compass does.

A GPS really doesn't even work that well in the woods. I have 2 and I
always carry them on vacation (Idaho, Alaska, the Dakotas and Wyoming)
but you have to climb a tree to get enough satellites to establish a
fix. My wife was constantly making fun of me waving these in the air
trying to get 3 satellites.

I've heard that before and I find it an interesting comment. We have
some fairly dense woods around my house - 100 plus acres of woods in
fact mostly swamp oak, pine, hemlock, birch and sugar/swamp/rock
maple. Most trees are in the 40/45 foot category and in the summer
there is a dense canopy.

Back when I was still an active hunter, I used my GPS all the time
over in the Natchaug Forest and up along the Mass border where there
are more pine trees in the swamps than you can shake a stick at.

Never had a problem getting three satellites to obtain a fix.

Ever.

They do work OK in the desert.

Well, to each their own.

--

"Far better it is to dare mighty things,
to win glorious triumphs even though
checkered by failure, than to rank with
those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor
suffer much because they live in the gray
twilight that knows neither victory nor
defeat."

Theodore Roosevelt

On Jan 5, 6:12*am, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:
On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 00:07:18 -0500, wrote:
On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 19:06:23 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

Being somewhat of a "high Tech Luddite", *I also prefer my compass to
GPS and would pack it before the GPS. *I can almost instantly use the
compass to take a bearing on something to be sure I have cleared a
potential obstacle. *Being a trigonometry geek, I just think
navigating with a compass and taking bearings is just elegant.
BTW, also being a caver, GPS doesnt work in caves, compass does.

A GPS really doesn't even work that well in the woods. I have 2 and I
always carry them on vacation (Idaho, Alaska, the Dakotas and Wyoming)
but you have to climb a tree to get enough satellites to establish a
fix. My wife was constantly making fun of me waving these in the air
trying to get 3 satellites.

I've heard that before and I find it an interesting comment. *We have
some fairly dense woods around my house - 100 plus acres of woods in
fact mostly swamp oak, pine, hemlock, birch and sugar/swamp/rock
maple. Most trees are in the 40/45 foot category and in the summer
there is a dense canopy.

Back when I was still an active hunter, I used my GPS all the time
over in the Natchaug Forest and up along the Mass border where there
are more pine trees in the swamps than you can shake a stick at.

Never had a problem getting three satellites to obtain a fix.

Ever.

They do work OK in the desert.

Well, to each their own.

--

"Far better it is to dare mighty things,
to win glorious triumphs even though
checkered by failure, than to rank with
those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor
suffer much because they live in the gray
twilight that knows neither victory nor
defeat."

Theodore Roosevelt- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The Magellan in my truck has NEVER been unable to link to satellites.
Hellacious rainstorm, in the woods, no problem.

On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 13:47:13 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 06:12:16 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:


I've heard that before and I find it an interesting comment. We have
some fairly dense woods around my house - 100 plus acres of woods in
fact mostly swamp oak, pine, hemlock, birch and sugar/swamp/rock
maple. Most trees are in the 40/45 foot category and in the summer
there is a dense canopy.

Back when I was still an active hunter, I used my GPS all the time
over in the Natchaug Forest and up along the Mass border where there
are more pine trees in the swamps than you can shake a stick at.

Never had a problem getting three satellites to obtain a fix.

Maybe it is just the shape/composition of the mountains, the latitude
or something but neither GPS worked worth a damn in Alaska, Idaho or
the Dakotas.
They were OK in Arizona and New Mexico. I have no problems in my boat
either but I am never lost enough to need one poking around in the
mangroves.

I can't say anything other than it's worked for me. Much to my
embarrassement, I was talking to a friend who is a big time deer
hunter and he was telling me, unsolicited I might add, that his GPS
gave him fits this weekend during bow season for deer. He was hunting
my property so it wasn't a location thing.

And, strangely, I've had problems with the RC400 even on open water
with the receiver losing lock although that was fixed with a firmware
update.

I've had this opinion, based on nothing other than observation and a
very megar understanding of GPS satellite communications (which is
nothing like other satellite communications) that folks in the
northern latitudes don't get as strong a signal as folks further
south. Just this past week, I got instant locks on my car's GPS - a
full spectrum of 12 satellites even time I turned it on and that was
in South Carolina. Up here, it takes a good 30 seconds for it to get
a 5 satelite lock to start working and the constellation is generally
clustered around the satellite that traverses the North Pole at the
time which limits the amount of sky available. Compared to the
constellation aquired in SC which was a fairly broad spectrum of sky.

Dunno.

--

"Every normal man must be tempted at times
to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag,
and begin to slit throats."

H. L. Mencken

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message news
On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 13:47:13 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 06:12:16 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:


I've heard that before and I find it an interesting comment. We have
some fairly dense woods around my house - 100 plus acres of woods in
fact mostly swamp oak, pine, hemlock, birch and sugar/swamp/rock
maple. Most trees are in the 40/45 foot category and in the summer
there is a dense canopy.

Back when I was still an active hunter, I used my GPS all the time
over in the Natchaug Forest and up along the Mass border where there
are more pine trees in the swamps than you can shake a stick at.

Never had a problem getting three satellites to obtain a fix.

Maybe it is just the shape/composition of the mountains, the latitude
or something but neither GPS worked worth a damn in Alaska, Idaho or
the Dakotas.
They were OK in Arizona and New Mexico. I have no problems in my boat
either but I am never lost enough to need one poking around in the
mangroves.

I can't say anything other than it's worked for me. Much to my
embarrassement, I was talking to a friend who is a big time deer
hunter and he was telling me, unsolicited I might add, that his GPS
gave him fits this weekend during bow season for deer. He was hunting
my property so it wasn't a location thing.

And, strangely, I've had problems with the RC400 even on open water
with the receiver losing lock although that was fixed with a firmware
update.

I've had this opinion, based on nothing other than observation and a
very megar understanding of GPS satellite communications (which is
nothing like other satellite communications) that folks in the
northern latitudes don't get as strong a signal as folks further
south. Just this past week, I got instant locks on my car's GPS - a
full spectrum of 12 satellites even time I turned it on and that was
in South Carolina. Up here, it takes a good 30 seconds for it to get
a 5 satelite lock to start working and the constellation is generally
clustered around the satellite that traverses the North Pole at the
time which limits the amount of sky available. Compared to the
constellation aquired in SC which was a fairly broad spectrum of sky.

Dunno.

--

"Every normal man must be tempted at times
to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag,
and begin to slit throats."

H. L. Mencken

I can get lost in the Sacramento Delta without the gps. And during low
waters some of the higher levies will cause lock loss. But most of the time
good reception everywhere. Both the Garmin 162 and 76cx.

wrote:
On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 19:06:23 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

Being somewhat of a "high Tech Luddite", I also prefer my compass to
GPS and would pack it before the GPS. I can almost instantly use the
compass to take a bearing on something to be sure I have cleared a
potential obstacle. Being a trigonometry geek, I just think
navigating with a compass and taking bearings is just elegant.
BTW, also being a caver, GPS doesnt work in caves, compass does.

A GPS really doesn't even work that well in the woods. I have 2 and I
always carry them on vacation (Idaho, Alaska, the Dakotas and Wyoming)
but you have to climb a tree to get enough satellites to establish a
fix. My wife was constantly making fun of me waving these in the air
trying to get 3 satellites.
They do work OK in the desert.


Does anyone have any experience with working the GPS from the centre of
a moving vehicle? Does it need to be near glass to receive signals?



--
Regards,
Dave Brown
Brown's Marina Ltd
http://brownsmarina.com/