wrote:
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 14:49:31 -0500, Eisboch wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...

I'm looking forward to the $700 billion to $1 trillion we'll be
spending on infrastructure and other improvements.

I wish I shared your confidence and enthusiasm.

I see the very real probability of a trillion dollars worth of
over-budget, behind schedule major projects, laced with bribes,
corruption and kickbacks.

Well, we have been neglecting our infrastructure. Properly managed, this
program could kill two birds, kick starting the economy, and, bringing
our roads, bridges, and schools, up to snuff. I don't know about you,
but I find collapsing bridges down right embarrassing. ;-)

Not properly managed, well, that would be pretty much business as usual.
I have considerable hope Obama can properly manage.

The infrastructure plan will do nothing for the immediate economic
problem. Infrastructure plans require a considerable amount of data to
be collected on the site, design of the structure, implement the
logistics, and finally the construction phase.

Examples of infrastructure projects. The trade center in New York. It
has been 7 years since 9-11. There have been many design projects put
forth and to my knowledge not one pound of concrete has been poured to
replace the building.

The Interstate highway project was initiated by President Eisenhower and
approved in 1956. While the majority of the roads were in by the mid
1970's there are parts of this project that are still not completed.

Planning for the Blue Ridge parkway started in 1933. Construction
started 1835. two thirds was completed by 1941. Most was completed by
1960. The final part, the Linn Cove Viaduct, was completed in 1987.

I enjoy these facilities but as can be seen, even if started today there
would be know benefit in the near future.

From what I have seen management and obama in the same sentence is an
oxymoron

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:05:53 -0500, Keith nuttle wrote:


The infrastructure plan will do nothing for the immediate economic
problem. Infrastructure plans require a considerable amount of data to
be collected on the site, design of the structure, implement the
logistics, and finally the construction phase.

Except in this case, one of the prerequisites is the projects must be
ready to go. Most states have projects just waiting for the funding.

Keith nuttle wrote:
wrote:
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 14:49:31 -0500, Eisboch wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...

I'm looking forward to the $700 billion to $1 trillion we'll be
spending on infrastructure and other improvements.

I wish I shared your confidence and enthusiasm.

I see the very real probability of a trillion dollars worth of
over-budget, behind schedule major projects, laced with bribes,
corruption and kickbacks.

Well, we have been neglecting our infrastructure. Properly managed,
this program could kill two birds, kick starting the economy, and,
bringing our roads, bridges, and schools, up to snuff. I don't know
about you, but I find collapsing bridges down right embarrassing. ;-)

Not properly managed, well, that would be pretty much business as
usual. I have considerable hope Obama can properly manage.

The infrastructure plan will do nothing for the immediate economic
problem. Infrastructure plans require a considerable amount of data to
be collected on the site, design of the structure, implement the
logistics, and finally the construction phase.

Examples of infrastructure projects. The trade center in New York. It
has been 7 years since 9-11. There have been many design projects put
forth and to my knowledge not one pound of concrete has been poured to
replace the building.

The Interstate highway project was initiated by President Eisenhower and
approved in 1956. While the majority of the roads were in by the mid
1970's there are parts of this project that are still not completed.

Planning for the Blue Ridge parkway started in 1933. Construction
started 1835. two thirds was completed by 1941. Most was completed by
1960. The final part, the Linn Cove Viaduct, was completed in 1987.

I enjoy these facilities but as can be seen, even if started today there
would be know benefit in the near future.

From what I have seen management and obama in the same sentence is an
oxymoron


Whoosh. There are hundreds of infrastructure projects around the country
awaiting only funding.

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 15:11:30 -0600, wrote:

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:05:53 -0500, Keith nuttle wrote:


The infrastructure plan will do nothing for the immediate economic
problem. Infrastructure plans require a considerable amount of data to
be collected on the site, design of the structure, implement the
logistics, and finally the construction phase.

Except in this case, one of the prerequisites is the projects must be
ready to go. Most states have projects just waiting for the funding.

Maybe they'll even get around to dredging the ICW properly. They could
start tomorrow.

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 14:18:38 -0600, wrote:

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 14:49:31 -0500, Eisboch wrote:

"Boater" wrote in message
...


I'm looking forward to the $700 billion to $1 trillion we'll be
spending on infrastructure and other improvements.


I wish I shared your confidence and enthusiasm.

I see the very real probability of a trillion dollars worth of
over-budget, behind schedule major projects, laced with bribes,
corruption and kickbacks.

Well, we have been neglecting our infrastructure. Properly managed, this
program could kill two birds, kick starting the economy, and, bringing
our roads, bridges, and schools, up to snuff. I don't know about you,
but I find collapsing bridges down right embarrassing. ;-)

Not properly managed, well, that would be pretty much business as usual.
I have considerable hope Obama can properly manage.

Obama wanted to provide hope, and you've got lots of it. Sounds like he's
ahead of the game already!
--
John

"Boater" wrote in message
...


Whoosh. There are hundreds of infrastructure projects around the country
awaiting only funding.


Keep all your "Big Digs" to yourselves. I've seen enough. :-)

Eisboch

"Boater" wrote in message
...
Keith nuttle wrote:
wrote:
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 14:49:31 -0500, Eisboch wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...

I'm looking forward to the $700 billion to $1 trillion we'll be
spending on infrastructure and other improvements.

I wish I shared your confidence and enthusiasm.

I see the very real probability of a trillion dollars worth of
over-budget, behind schedule major projects, laced with bribes,
corruption and kickbacks.

Well, we have been neglecting our infrastructure. Properly managed,
this program could kill two birds, kick starting the economy, and,
bringing our roads, bridges, and schools, up to snuff. I don't know
about you, but I find collapsing bridges down right embarrassing. ;-)

Not properly managed, well, that would be pretty much business as usual.
I have considerable hope Obama can properly manage.

The infrastructure plan will do nothing for the immediate economic
problem. Infrastructure plans require a considerable amount of data to be
collected on the site, design of the structure, implement the logistics,
and finally the construction phase.

Examples of infrastructure projects. The trade center in New York. It
has been 7 years since 9-11. There have been many design projects put
forth and to my knowledge not one pound of concrete has been poured to
replace the building.

The Interstate highway project was initiated by President Eisenhower and
approved in 1956. While the majority of the roads were in by the mid
1970's there are parts of this project that are still not completed.

Planning for the Blue Ridge parkway started in 1933. Construction started
1835. two thirds was completed by 1941. Most was completed by 1960.
The final part, the Linn Cove Viaduct, was completed in 1987.

I enjoy these facilities but as can be seen, even if started today there
would be know benefit in the near future.

From what I have seen management and obama in the same sentence is an
oxymoron


Whoosh. There are hundreds of infrastructure projects around the country
awaiting only funding.


http://forums.insidebayarea.com/topi...ailout-package

And why should somebody in Michigan be paying for a new arts center in
Oakland, Calif. Not a Federal job. If the governments would cut the bloat,
they could have kept up the infrastructure in the state. California is
begging for $15B and then another $15-20B to bail them out. they have not
fixed the infrastructure, but have doubled state spending in 8 years.
Prison Guards gave be campaign donations to Gov. Davis. So all the sudden
they are the highest paid prison guards in the world. Just one example.
Part of the problem with the economic meltdown is governement spending. The
borrow so much money that the credit market for private borrowers shrinks.
Plus the Fed's encouraging overspending and running up the credit cards.
The last economic stimulus but the President and Congress, borrowed enough
money to give everyone $600. And told them to spend the money. Not save,
or pay off bills, but spend. Takes even more money out of the supply side
of the credit markets.

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 14:49:31 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

I wish I shared your confidence and enthusiasm.

I see the very real probability of a trillion dollars worth of over-budget,
behind schedule major projects, laced with bribes, corruption and kickbacks.

But that will be good for the underground economy. :-)

The money has to go somewhere.

wrote:
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:50:41 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:35:04 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:27:36 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:42:56 -0500, wrote:

Maybe they'll even get around to dredging the ICW properly. They could
start tomorrow.
They could start applying for the permits tomorrow but I doubt any
muck will move for a couple years ... at last around here.
Nope, they could start VERY quickly. All they lack is funding. As the
trickle of money comes in, they have been doing what they can.
You must not have Department of Environmental Protection there.
You can't do anything in the water here without a permit and that
process drags on forever. If you dig up the bottom somewhere they
usually want some kind of mitigation somewhere else. Dredging projects
usually get coupled to sea grass restoration or something. All of that
negotiation takes a lot of time.

Army Corps of Engineers is not a private party wanting to do some new
development. Dredging the ICW is part of their REGULAR functions
whenever they have the resources to go and do it. There is no
permitting delay, as this is ongoing maintenance that is already
cleared. In fact, it's federally mandated work. The highway department
similarly does not need any permits to fill pot holes or replace
damaged stop signs.

But, the Corps needs a permit to deposit the dredgings someplace. And,
they don't get permits with open ended dates. Besides every
environmental organization will take any and every opportunity to stop
the dredging to save any and all wild life.

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:05:36 -0500, salty wrote:


Army Corps of Engineers is not a private party wanting to do some new
development. Dredging the ICW is part of their REGULAR functions
whenever they have the resources to go and do it. There is no permitting
delay, as this is ongoing maintenance that is already cleared. In fact,
it's federally mandated work. The highway department similarly does not
need any permits to fill pot holes or replace damaged stop signs.

If I'm not mistaken, the Army Corps. is the agency that issues the permit.