Digging around in the sock drawer
 

"hk" wrote in message
...
UglyDan®©™ wrote:
(Eisboch) wrote I don't know about all states, but here in MA there
are apparently
different rules regarding the use of deadly force in the event of a home
break-in. I understand that if the break-in occurs at night, deadly
force is justified in the eyes of the courts, but if it occurs during
daylight hours, there are no guarantees that the home owner will be held
harmless or not charged with something. Eisboch

It could be a problem for anyone in MA that works swngshift.
Good night, Sleep tight. UD

In Maryland, there is case law indicating duty to retreat does not apply
when attacked in one's home. Other exceptions to duty to retreat are being
the victim of a robbery, situations where the imminent peril of attack
makes retreat impossible or retreat would not remove the danger.

Ergo, if some drooler breaks into my house at night, I have no duty to
retreat. I'll simply shoot the sucker.

Massachusetts:

PART IV. CRIMES, PUNISHMENTS AND PROCEEDINGSIN CRIMINAL CASES

TITLE II. PROCEEDINGS IN CRIMINAL CASES

CHAPTER 278. TRIALS AND PROCEEDINGS BEFORE JUDGMENT

Chapter 278: Section 8A. Killing or injuring a person unlawfully in a
dwelling; defense

Section 8A. In the prosecution of a person who is an occupant of a
dwelling charged with killing or injuring one who was unlawfully in said
dwelling, it shall be a defense that the occupant was in his dwelling at
the time of the offense and that he acted in the reasonable belief that
the person unlawfully in said dwelling was about to inflict great bodily
injury or death upon said occupant or upon another person lawfully in said
dwelling, and that said occupant used reasonable means to defend himself
or such other person lawfully in said dwelling. There shall be no duty on
said occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling.



About the same in Massachusetts as in Maryland in terms of effect. If
someone breaks into your house in Massachusetts, you can shoot him.


Unfortunately I cannot cite the reference, but there was a talk radio
program out of Boston last week discussing this issue. Apparently it is not
as clear cut as Section 8A implies (which was the basis of the discussion).
According to the MA attorney general, who was a guest on the show, the court
system treats a daytime break in differently than one occuring at night.

Eisboch

Digging around in the sock drawer
 

Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
...
UglyDan®©™ wrote:
(Eisboch) wrote I don't know about all states, but here in MA there
are apparently
different rules regarding the use of deadly force in the event of a home
break-in. I understand that if the break-in occurs at night, deadly
force is justified in the eyes of the courts, but if it occurs during
daylight hours, there are no guarantees that the home owner will be held
harmless or not charged with something. Eisboch

It could be a problem for anyone in MA that works swngshift.
Good night, Sleep tight. UD
In Maryland, there is case law indicating duty to retreat does not apply
when attacked in one's home. Other exceptions to duty to retreat are being
the victim of a robbery, situations where the imminent peril of attack
makes retreat impossible or retreat would not remove the danger.

Ergo, if some drooler breaks into my house at night, I have no duty to
retreat. I'll simply shoot the sucker.

Massachusetts:

PART IV. CRIMES, PUNISHMENTS AND PROCEEDINGSIN CRIMINAL CASES

TITLE II. PROCEEDINGS IN CRIMINAL CASES

CHAPTER 278. TRIALS AND PROCEEDINGS BEFORE JUDGMENT

Chapter 278: Section 8A. Killing or injuring a person unlawfully in a
dwelling; defense

Section 8A. In the prosecution of a person who is an occupant of a
dwelling charged with killing or injuring one who was unlawfully in said
dwelling, it shall be a defense that the occupant was in his dwelling at
the time of the offense and that he acted in the reasonable belief that
the person unlawfully in said dwelling was about to inflict great bodily
injury or death upon said occupant or upon another person lawfully in said
dwelling, and that said occupant used reasonable means to defend himself
or such other person lawfully in said dwelling. There shall be no duty on
said occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling.



About the same in Massachusetts as in Maryland in terms of effect. If
someone breaks into your house in Massachusetts, you can shoot him.


Unfortunately I cannot cite the reference, but there was a talk radio
program out of Boston last week discussing this issue. Apparently it is not
as clear cut as Section 8A implies (which was the basis of the discussion).
According to the MA attorney general, who was a guest on the show, the court
system treats a daytime break in differently than one occuring at night.

Eisboch



If the DA believes unreasonable force was used by the homeowner, and if
it goes to court with a jury, the jury will decide if the gun owner
acting in a reasonable manner. Just because someone is in your house
and you shot him, does not necessarily mean the occupant used reasonable
means to defend himself.

Digging around in the sock drawer
 

Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq. wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
...
UglyDan®©™ wrote:
(Eisboch) wrote I don't know about all states, but here in MA
there are apparently
different rules regarding the use of deadly force in the event of a
home
break-in. I understand that if the break-in occurs at night, deadly
force is justified in the eyes of the courts, but if it occurs during
daylight hours, there are no guarantees that the home owner will be
held
harmless or not charged with something. Eisboch

It could be a problem for anyone in MA that works swngshift.
Good night, Sleep tight. UD
In Maryland, there is case law indicating duty to retreat does not
apply when attacked in one's home. Other exceptions to duty to
retreat are being the victim of a robbery, situations where the
imminent peril of attack makes retreat impossible or retreat would
not remove the danger.

Ergo, if some drooler breaks into my house at night, I have no duty
to retreat. I'll simply shoot the sucker.

Massachusetts:

PART IV. CRIMES, PUNISHMENTS AND PROCEEDINGSIN CRIMINAL CASES

TITLE II. PROCEEDINGS IN CRIMINAL CASES

CHAPTER 278. TRIALS AND PROCEEDINGS BEFORE JUDGMENT

Chapter 278: Section 8A. Killing or injuring a person unlawfully in a
dwelling; defense

Section 8A. In the prosecution of a person who is an occupant of a
dwelling charged with killing or injuring one who was unlawfully in
said dwelling, it shall be a defense that the occupant was in his
dwelling at the time of the offense and that he acted in the
reasonable belief that the person unlawfully in said dwelling was
about to inflict great bodily injury or death upon said occupant or
upon another person lawfully in said dwelling, and that said occupant
used reasonable means to defend himself or such other person lawfully
in said dwelling. There shall be no duty on said occupant to retreat
from such person unlawfully in said dwelling.



About the same in Massachusetts as in Maryland in terms of effect. If
someone breaks into your house in Massachusetts, you can shoot him.


Unfortunately I cannot cite the reference, but there was a talk radio
program out of Boston last week discussing this issue. Apparently it
is not as clear cut as Section 8A implies (which was the basis of the
discussion). According to the MA attorney general, who was a guest on
the show, the court system treats a daytime break in differently than
one occuring at night.

Eisboch


If the DA believes unreasonable force was used by the homeowner, and if
it goes to court with a jury, the jury will decide if the gun owner
acting in a reasonable manner. Just because someone is in your house
and you shot him, does not necessarily mean the occupant used reasonable
means to defend himself.


Oh...what would you do with an intruder in your house who was
threatening you? Call Eisboch for a consult? :)

Digging around in the sock drawer
 

Boater wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq. wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
...
UglyDan®©™ wrote:
(Eisboch) wrote I don't know about all states, but here in MA
there are apparently
different rules regarding the use of deadly force in the event of a
home
break-in. I understand that if the break-in occurs at night, deadly
force is justified in the eyes of the courts, but if it occurs during
daylight hours, there are no guarantees that the home owner will be
held
harmless or not charged with something. Eisboch

It could be a problem for anyone in MA that works swngshift.
Good night, Sleep tight. UD
In Maryland, there is case law indicating duty to retreat does not
apply when attacked in one's home. Other exceptions to duty to
retreat are being the victim of a robbery, situations where the
imminent peril of attack makes retreat impossible or retreat would
not remove the danger.

Ergo, if some drooler breaks into my house at night, I have no duty
to retreat. I'll simply shoot the sucker.

Massachusetts:

PART IV. CRIMES, PUNISHMENTS AND PROCEEDINGSIN CRIMINAL CASES

TITLE II. PROCEEDINGS IN CRIMINAL CASES

CHAPTER 278. TRIALS AND PROCEEDINGS BEFORE JUDGMENT

Chapter 278: Section 8A. Killing or injuring a person unlawfully in
a dwelling; defense

Section 8A. In the prosecution of a person who is an occupant of a
dwelling charged with killing or injuring one who was unlawfully in
said dwelling, it shall be a defense that the occupant was in his
dwelling at the time of the offense and that he acted in the
reasonable belief that the person unlawfully in said dwelling was
about to inflict great bodily injury or death upon said occupant or
upon another person lawfully in said dwelling, and that said
occupant used reasonable means to defend himself or such other
person lawfully in said dwelling. There shall be no duty on said
occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling.



About the same in Massachusetts as in Maryland in terms of effect.
If someone breaks into your house in Massachusetts, you can shoot him.


Unfortunately I cannot cite the reference, but there was a talk radio
program out of Boston last week discussing this issue. Apparently it
is not as clear cut as Section 8A implies (which was the basis of the
discussion). According to the MA attorney general, who was a guest on
the show, the court system treats a daytime break in differently than
one occuring at night.

Eisboch


If the DA believes unreasonable force was used by the homeowner, and
if it goes to court with a jury, the jury will decide if the gun owner
acting in a reasonable manner. Just because someone is in your house
and you shot him, does not necessarily mean the occupant used
reasonable means to defend himself.


Oh...what would you do with an intruder in your house who was
threatening you? Call Eisboch for a consult? :)

Well, if he came in while I was sleeping, since I don't have a gun, a
baseball bat, or a tasar I guess I would have to sucker punch him. Now
if he came in while I was in the kitchen, I could (to steal a scene from
cartoons) hit him with a cast iron skillet. I have never had someone
break into my home. I only lock my doors when I go to bed, the rest of
them time, they are unlock. I just don't worry about it, but loud dogs
make my home a less friendly target and the bad guys away.

I never worry about someone threatening me, or robbing me on the street.
I figure I don't look like a good victim.

When I am downtown, I have had some mentally ill people come up to me in
a threatening manner asking for money, but I must relate to them or they
think I am one of them, because they always calm down quickly. Caesar
Chavez believes if people exude quite confidence and the attitude of the
alpha dog, animals will calm down. That might be why woman cops can
successful arrest a much stronger man.

So far, I am batting 1000 and don't worry about intruders, robbers or
physical violence.

Digging around in the sock drawer
 

"Boater" wrote in message
...

Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq. wrote:

Eisboch wrote:


About the same in Massachusetts as in Maryland in terms of effect. If
someone breaks into your house in Massachusetts, you can shoot him.


Unfortunately I cannot cite the reference, but there was a talk radio
program out of Boston last week discussing this issue. Apparently it is
not as clear cut as Section 8A implies (which was the basis of the
discussion). According to the MA attorney general, who was a guest on
the show, the court system treats a daytime break in differently than
one occuring at night.

Eisboch



If the DA believes unreasonable force was used by the homeowner, and if
it goes to court with a jury, the jury will decide if the gun owner
acting in a reasonable manner. Just because someone is in your house and
you shot him, does not necessarily mean the occupant used reasonable
means to defend himself.



Oh...what would you do with an intruder in your house who was threatening
you? Call Eisboch for a consult? :)



Don't call me, I haven't a clue.
But I think we were discussing the "right" to use deadly force. The
statutes don't clearly identify when one has that right other than a
"reasonable" act of self defense or defense of another occupant.
Who defines "reasonable".

The Courts.

That's what we are talking about, not a god given right to blow an
intruder's head off.
What if the intruder is indoxicated? A kid? Half your size and unarmed?

In MA, the courts apparently view the "reasonableness" differently in the
night/day justification to use deadly force because at night you may not be
able to determine some of the details.

Eisboch

Digging around in the sock drawer
 

"Boater" wrote in message
...


Oh...what would you do with an intruder in your house who was threatening
you? Call Eisboch for a consult? :)


Although I do have a shotgun in my house, I like to think I will never use
it.

Dogs are a great deterrent to home intruders, especially when they can be
heard and
there's obviously more than one.

Sam will bark loudly at strange noises ... he even recognizes unfamiliar
cars coming up the driveway.
Problem is, if someone broke in, I think Sam would probably lick him to
death. He likes people.

However, Sam has a more silent friend named Fudge, the dog Mrs.E. took in.
Fudge lets Sam do all the barking, most of the time. But Fudge doesn't like
strangers and doesn't hesitate to go into attack mode. Even people he
somewhat knows but doesn't see regularly will set him off and either Mrs.E.
or I have to demonstrate that the visitor is OK. Only then will Fudge
relax. The other day my oldest son went out into the garage area to get
something, not realizing that Sam and Fudge were out there. He came flying
back into the house doing about Mach 2, with Fudge on his tail, snarling and
growling with foam all over his mouth. It's scary to see.

Don't be fooled by this picture. He may look scholarly, but it's an act:

http://www.eisboch.com/fudgebook.jpg

Eisboch

Digging around in the sock drawer
 

Eisboch wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...

Oh...what would you do with an intruder in your house who was threatening
you? Call Eisboch for a consult? :)


Although I do have a shotgun in my house, I like to think I will never use
it.

Dogs are a great deterrent to home intruders, especially when they can be
heard and
there's obviously more than one.

Sam will bark loudly at strange noises ... he even recognizes unfamiliar
cars coming up the driveway.
Problem is, if someone broke in, I think Sam would probably lick him to
death. He likes people.

However, Sam has a more silent friend named Fudge, the dog Mrs.E. took in.
Fudge lets Sam do all the barking, most of the time. But Fudge doesn't like
strangers and doesn't hesitate to go into attack mode. Even people he
somewhat knows but doesn't see regularly will set him off and either Mrs.E.
or I have to demonstrate that the visitor is OK. Only then will Fudge
relax. The other day my oldest son went out into the garage area to get
something, not realizing that Sam and Fudge were out there. He came flying
back into the house doing about Mach 2, with Fudge on his tail, snarling and
growling with foam all over his mouth. It's scary to see.

Don't be fooled by this picture. He may look scholarly, but it's an act:

http://www.eisboch.com/fudgebook.jpg

Eisboch



A dog, even a small lapdog is much more of a deterrent than a gun.
A burglar wants an easy mark, a loud barking dog encourages a burglar to
move to another home.

Digging around in the sock drawer
 

On Fri, 05 Dec 2008 00:27:45 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq."
wrote:

Boater wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq. wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
...
UglyDan®©™ wrote:
(Eisboch) wrote I don't know about all states, but here in MA
there are apparently
different rules regarding the use of deadly force in the event of a
home
break-in. I understand that if the break-in occurs at night, deadly
force is justified in the eyes of the courts, but if it occurs during
daylight hours, there are no guarantees that the home owner will be
held
harmless or not charged with something. Eisboch

It could be a problem for anyone in MA that works swngshift.
Good night, Sleep tight. UD
In Maryland, there is case law indicating duty to retreat does not
apply when attacked in one's home. Other exceptions to duty to
retreat are being the victim of a robbery, situations where the
imminent peril of attack makes retreat impossible or retreat would
not remove the danger.

Ergo, if some drooler breaks into my house at night, I have no duty
to retreat. I'll simply shoot the sucker.

Massachusetts:

PART IV. CRIMES, PUNISHMENTS AND PROCEEDINGSIN CRIMINAL CASES

TITLE II. PROCEEDINGS IN CRIMINAL CASES

CHAPTER 278. TRIALS AND PROCEEDINGS BEFORE JUDGMENT

Chapter 278: Section 8A. Killing or injuring a person unlawfully in
a dwelling; defense

Section 8A. In the prosecution of a person who is an occupant of a
dwelling charged with killing or injuring one who was unlawfully in
said dwelling, it shall be a defense that the occupant was in his
dwelling at the time of the offense and that he acted in the
reasonable belief that the person unlawfully in said dwelling was
about to inflict great bodily injury or death upon said occupant or
upon another person lawfully in said dwelling, and that said
occupant used reasonable means to defend himself or such other
person lawfully in said dwelling. There shall be no duty on said
occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling.



About the same in Massachusetts as in Maryland in terms of effect.
If someone breaks into your house in Massachusetts, you can shoot him.


Unfortunately I cannot cite the reference, but there was a talk radio
program out of Boston last week discussing this issue. Apparently it
is not as clear cut as Section 8A implies (which was the basis of the
discussion). According to the MA attorney general, who was a guest on
the show, the court system treats a daytime break in differently than
one occuring at night.

Eisboch


If the DA believes unreasonable force was used by the homeowner, and
if it goes to court with a jury, the jury will decide if the gun owner
acting in a reasonable manner. Just because someone is in your house
and you shot him, does not necessarily mean the occupant used
reasonable means to defend himself.


Oh...what would you do with an intruder in your house who was
threatening you? Call Eisboch for a consult? :)

Well, if he came in while I was sleeping, since I don't have a gun, a
baseball bat, or a tasar I guess I would have to sucker punch him. Now
if he came in while I was in the kitchen, I could (to steal a scene from
cartoons) hit him with a cast iron skillet. I have never had someone
break into my home. I only lock my doors when I go to bed, the rest of
them time, they are unlock. I just don't worry about it, but loud dogs
make my home a less friendly target and the bad guys away.

I never worry about someone threatening me, or robbing me on the street.
I figure I don't look like a good victim.

When I am downtown, I have had some mentally ill people come up to me in
a threatening manner asking for money, but I must relate to them or they
think I am one of them, because they always calm down quickly. Caesar
Chavez believes if people exude quite confidence and the attitude of the
alpha dog, animals will calm down. That might be why woman cops can
successful arrest a much stronger man.

So far, I am batting 1000 and don't worry about intruders, robbers or
physical violence.

It worries me that you'll go downtown where those folks are, not carrying a
couple Glocks and maybe a shotgun. You should get yourself licensed to
carry in three or four states and load up. I'd think you could handle a few
pistols, a shotgun, a large tripod, and your camera without too much
problem.
--
John H

*Have a Super Christmas and a Spectacular New Year!*

Digging around in the sock drawer
 

Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq. wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...

Oh...what would you do with an intruder in your house who was
threatening you? Call Eisboch for a consult? :)


Although I do have a shotgun in my house, I like to think I will never
use it.

Dogs are a great deterrent to home intruders, especially when they can
be heard and
there's obviously more than one.

Sam will bark loudly at strange noises ... he even recognizes
unfamiliar cars coming up the driveway.
Problem is, if someone broke in, I think Sam would probably lick him
to death. He likes people.

However, Sam has a more silent friend named Fudge, the dog Mrs.E. took
in. Fudge lets Sam do all the barking, most of the time. But Fudge
doesn't like strangers and doesn't hesitate to go into attack mode.
Even people he somewhat knows but doesn't see regularly will set him
off and either Mrs.E. or I have to demonstrate that the visitor is
OK. Only then will Fudge relax. The other day my oldest son went out
into the garage area to get something, not realizing that Sam and
Fudge were out there. He came flying back into the house doing about
Mach 2, with Fudge on his tail, snarling and growling with foam all
over his mouth. It's scary to see.

Don't be fooled by this picture. He may look scholarly, but it's an act:

http://www.eisboch.com/fudgebook.jpg

Eisboch


A dog, even a small lapdog is much more of a deterrent than a gun.
A burglar wants an easy mark, a loud barking dog encourages a burglar to
move to another home.

Yes, that's the conventional wisdom, and sometimes it is true and
sometimes it is not. Too many burglars today are hopped up on drugs, and
may not react in the conventional way to a yapping dogs. Others may be
in the mood for a little of the old ultra violence, and simply kill the
dog, too.

Way back in New Haven days, we had a prowler on our back porch who was
scared away by my mother's yapping Pomeranian, Shirley. These days, some
of those prowlers might just try to shoot the dog through the door.

A burglar is hoping to find an empty house. If there are people home, it
is an entirely different crime with much worse outcomes.

Digging around in the sock drawer
 

"Boater" wrote in message
...

Way back in New Haven days, we had a prowler on our back porch who was
scared away by my mother's yapping Pomeranian, Shirley. These days, some
of those prowlers might just try to shoot the dog through the door.


Mrs.E.'s dog, "Fudge" doesn't yap and rarely barks. He just waits quietly
until you enter the dark room, then attempts to tear your head off, unless
we restrain him. He doesn't have a half throttle mode. He's either chilled
out or unbelievably visious in his attack mode. I shudder sometimes
thinking of him escaping and running across a stranger. His temperment with
strangers caused us to invest in $11k worth of new fencing in the back yard
to make sure he stayed where he belongs.

When visitors come over we put him in a large dog crate in the garage. (Sam
has one too).
If unfamiliar people go over to the crates and stick their fingers in it,
Sam will lick, Fudge will try to devour. At night, Fudge roams the house
on patrol. Sam snores on a couch or on one of my leather chairs that he
has adopted for his own.

With Mrs.E. and I, "Fudge" is one of the sweetest tempered, lovable dog
you can imagine. He loves to be hugged, petted and is constantly giving us
kisses. But he is big, powerfully built, very athletic and has an
overdeveloped sense of protectionism.

As a puppy he was abused, beaten and treated poorly (which is the main
reason Mrs.E. "had" to have him.
He has taken to us, but God help anyone else who comes around.

Eisboch