On Nov 17, 10:53 pm, wrote:
On Nov 17, 7:28 pm, Jim wrote:



Boater wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
I agree with HK that strip canoes are very pretty. I disagree over
practicality. OTOH, I have seen several boats that in the end were
not really meant to ever be used, One was a variation on the
Stevenson projects "Weekender" that was astonishing to look at with
varnish so clear and deep it looked like a hologram. Every detail was
done right with cabinetry of such high quality that it was exquisite.
She was on display as an example of the boatmakers art and had never
seen water and probably wouldn'. Many strip canoes are like that,
once built, they are too perfect to be used. Would you really want to
be on a canoe trip with one, the obsession over not scratching it
would make you nutso.
Around here, in summer, the river banks are lined with hornet nests
every 3' and you get into one you have a choice of paddling like hell
and running yer boat over logs or jumping out into the gator infested
water or running into the weeds where the snakes drop into the boat.
A strip canoe will not stay pristine for more than an hour.
I believe a well used boat is a happy boat that inspires memories.

Strip or canvas over strip canoes are practical in the appropriate
waters. There are many lakes where using one can be a real pleasure.
I never recommended one for general use in areas where it might be
subject to being banged up.

The problem, of course, is that this newsgroup is infested with assholes
who look for something, anything, even in possibly interested on topic
subjects, they can use to post their usual lowbrow insults.

I don't mean you, not in this instance.

We used to canoe when I was a kid on a couple of really nice Connecticut
lakes. Lake Zoar was one of them. I have no recollection of banging up
the Old Town cedar and canvas canoes we were using. This was well before
the days of plastic canoes. There were plenty of aluminum canoes, of
course, but jesus they were ugly. And noisy.

Those stripper canoes are more of a furniture item than a practical
boat. One would look nice on Wayne's lawn but still would need
maintenance to keep it looking good.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A decent strip canoe can take a beating and can be used in pretty wild
conditions.. Just cause it's pretty doesn't mean it's wimpy...

My 12 yr old daughter has decided she wants a "sit on" type kayak
instead of a "sit in" one so I will prob buy her a plastic one instead
of building one. Like I need more boats.

On Nov 17, 11:14*pm, Frogwatch wrote:
On Nov 17, 10:53 pm, wrote:





On Nov 17, 7:28 pm, Jim wrote:

Boater wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
I agree with HK that strip canoes are very pretty. *I disagree over
practicality. *OTOH, I have seen several boats that in the end were
not really meant to ever be used, *One was a variation on the
Stevenson projects "Weekender" that was astonishing to look at with
varnish so clear and deep it looked like a hologram. *Every detail was
done right with cabinetry of such high quality that it was exquisite.
She was on display as an example of the boatmakers art and had never
seen water and probably wouldn'. *Many strip canoes are like that,
once built, they are too perfect to be used. *Would you really want to
be on a canoe trip with one, the obsession over not scratching it
would make you nutso.
Around here, in summer, the river banks are lined with hornet nests
every 3' and you get into one you have a choice of paddling like hell
and running yer boat over logs or jumping out into the gator infested
water or running into the weeds where the snakes drop into the boat.

On Nov 17, 11:19 pm, wrote:
On Nov 17, 11:14 pm, Frogwatch wrote:



On Nov 17, 10:53 pm, wrote:

On Nov 17, 7:28 pm, Jim wrote:

Boater wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
I agree with HK that strip canoes are very pretty. I disagree over
practicality. OTOH, I have seen several boats that in the end were
not really meant to ever be used, One was a variation on the
Stevenson projects "Weekender" that was astonishing to look at with
varnish so clear and deep it looked like a hologram. Every detail was
done right with cabinetry of such high quality that it was exquisite.
She was on display as an example of the boatmakers art and had never
seen water and probably wouldn'. Many strip canoes are like that,
once built, they are too perfect to be used. Would you really want to
be on a canoe trip with one, the obsession over not scratching it
would make you nutso.
Around here, in summer, the river banks are lined with hornet nests
every 3' and you get into one you have a choice of paddling like hell
and running yer boat over logs or jumping out into the gator infested
water or running into the weeds where the snakes drop into the boat.
A strip canoe will not stay pristine for more than an hour.
I believe a well used boat is a happy boat that inspires memories.

Strip or canvas over strip canoes are practical in the appropriate
waters. There are many lakes where using one can be a real pleasure.
I never recommended one for general use in areas where it might be
subject to being banged up.

The problem, of course, is that this newsgroup is infested with assholes
who look for something, anything, even in possibly interested on topic
subjects, they can use to post their usual lowbrow insults.

I don't mean you, not in this instance.

We used to canoe when I was a kid on a couple of really nice Connecticut
lakes. Lake Zoar was one of them. I have no recollection of banging up
the Old Town cedar and canvas canoes we were using. This was well before
the days of plastic canoes. There were plenty of aluminum canoes, of
course, but jesus they were ugly. And noisy.

Those stripper canoes are more of a furniture item than a practical
boat. One would look nice on Wayne's lawn but still would need
maintenance to keep it looking good.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A decent strip canoe can take a beating and can be used in pretty wild
conditions.. Just cause it's pretty doesn't mean it's wimpy...

My 12 yr old daughter has decided she wants a "sit on" type kayak
instead of a "sit in" one so I will prob buy her a plastic one instead
of building one. Like I need more boats.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Be sure not to get sucked into the trap of a 10-12 footer. They just
won't perform and she will get bored and tired fast. Look for
something 14 feet or longer. The longer the better, but I suspect you
already know that.. Just makin' sure..

I really DONT know about kayak length because I cannot sit in a kayak
too easily (legs too long) so have not paid any attention to them.
Tell me about kayak length. Why do they sell those really tiny 6'
ones? Around here turning is critical in swampy areas with lots of
branches so too much length is bad I think (although it has never been
an issue for the 18' Grumman canoe). I also worry about her being so
exposed to gators but I s'pose that is just me being an over
protective dad.

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
On Nov 17, 11:19 pm, wrote:
On Nov 17, 11:14 pm, Frogwatch wrote:



On Nov 17, 10:53 pm, wrote:

On Nov 17, 7:28 pm, Jim wrote:

Boater wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
I agree with HK that strip canoes are very pretty. I disagree
over
practicality. OTOH, I have seen several boats that in the end
were
not really meant to ever be used, One was a variation on the
Stevenson projects "Weekender" that was astonishing to look at
with
varnish so clear and deep it looked like a hologram. Every
detail was
done right with cabinetry of such high quality that it was
exquisite.
She was on display as an example of the boatmakers art and had
never
seen water and probably wouldn'. Many strip canoes are like
that,
once built, they are too perfect to be used. Would you really
want to
be on a canoe trip with one, the obsession over not scratching
it
would make you nutso.
Around here, in summer, the river banks are lined with hornet
nests
every 3' and you get into one you have a choice of paddling like
hell
and running yer boat over logs or jumping out into the gator
infested
water or running into the weeds where the snakes drop into the
boat.
A strip canoe will not stay pristine for more than an hour.
I believe a well used boat is a happy boat that inspires
memories.

Strip or canvas over strip canoes are practical in the
appropriate
waters. There are many lakes where using one can be a real
pleasure.
I never recommended one for general use in areas where it might
be
subject to being banged up.

The problem, of course, is that this newsgroup is infested with
assholes
who look for something, anything, even in possibly interested on
topic
subjects, they can use to post their usual lowbrow insults.

I don't mean you, not in this instance.

We used to canoe when I was a kid on a couple of really nice
Connecticut
lakes. Lake Zoar was one of them. I have no recollection of
banging up
the Old Town cedar and canvas canoes we were using. This was well
before
the days of plastic canoes. There were plenty of aluminum canoes,
of
course, but jesus they were ugly. And noisy.

Those stripper canoes are more of a furniture item than a practical
boat. One would look nice on Wayne's lawn but still would need
maintenance to keep it looking good.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A decent strip canoe can take a beating and can be used in pretty
wild
conditions.. Just cause it's pretty doesn't mean it's wimpy...

My 12 yr old daughter has decided she wants a "sit on" type kayak
instead of a "sit in" one so I will prob buy her a plastic one instead
of building one. Like I need more boats.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Be sure not to get sucked into the trap of a 10-12 footer. They just
won't perform and she will get bored and tired fast. Look for
something 14 feet or longer. The longer the better, but I suspect you
already know that.. Just makin' sure..

I really DONT know about kayak length because I cannot sit in a kayak
too easily (legs too long) so have not paid any attention to them.
Tell me about kayak length. Why do they sell those really tiny 6'
ones? Around here turning is critical in swampy areas with lots of
branches so too much length is bad I think (although it has never been
an issue for the 18' Grumman canoe). I also worry about her being so
exposed to gators but I s'pose that is just me being an over
protective dad.

The longer kayaks and sit on tops are much better on the long legs. I am
6'4" and handle most of the sit on tops easily. The Scupper Pro is too
narrow as my hip bones hit, but the Hobie Outback is really nice. The
pedals are faster, but the turning is wider with a rudder. Take her to a
Kayak shop. They have demo days, or lots of demo's any day and let her try
some. First one I bought was a Ocean Kayak Agean that is a tandem.
Supposedly ok for a single person also. Not. Rides so high without the
weight of two people, that it rolls really easy. I use an older OK Dive
Kayak. They are maybe $200 these days, and is not real fast, but very
stable.

On Nov 17, 11:27*pm, Frogwatch wrote:
On Nov 17, 11:19 pm, wrote:





On Nov 17, 11:14 pm, Frogwatch wrote:

On Nov 17, 10:53 pm, wrote:

On Nov 17, 7:28 pm, Jim wrote:

Boater wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
I agree with HK that strip canoes are very pretty. *I disagree over
practicality. *OTOH, I have seen several boats that in the end were
not really meant to ever be used, *One was a variation on the
Stevenson projects "Weekender" that was astonishing to look at with
varnish so clear and deep it looked like a hologram. *Every detail was
done right with cabinetry of such high quality that it was exquisite.
She was on display as an example of the boatmakers art and had never
seen water and probably wouldn'. *Many strip canoes are like that,
once built, they are too perfect to be used. *Would you really want to
be on a canoe trip with one, the obsession over not scratching it
would make you nutso.
Around here, in summer, the river banks are lined with hornet nests
every 3' and you get into one you have a choice of paddling like hell
and running yer boat over logs or jumping out into the gator infested
water or running into the weeds where the snakes drop into the boat.
A strip canoe will not stay pristine for more than an hour.
I believe a well used boat is a happy boat that inspires memories.

Strip or canvas over strip canoes are practical in the appropriate
waters. There are many lakes where using one can be a real pleasure.
I never recommended one for general use in areas where it might be
subject to being banged up.

The problem, of course, is that this newsgroup is infested with assholes
who look for something, anything, even in possibly interested on topic
subjects, they can use to post their usual lowbrow insults.

I don't mean you, not in this instance.

We used to canoe when I was a kid on a couple of really nice Connecticut
lakes. Lake Zoar was one of them. I have no recollection of banging up
the Old Town cedar and canvas canoes we were using. This was well before
the days of plastic canoes. There were plenty of aluminum canoes, of
course, but jesus they were ugly. And noisy.

Those stripper canoes are more of a furniture item than a practical
boat. One would look nice on Wayne's lawn but still would need
maintenance to keep it looking good.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A decent strip canoe can take a beating and can be used in pretty wild
conditions.. Just cause it's pretty doesn't mean it's wimpy...

My 12 yr old daughter has decided she wants a "sit on" type kayak
instead of a "sit in" one so I will prob buy her a plastic one instead
of building one. *Like I need more boats.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Be sure not to get sucked into the trap of a 10-12 footer. They just
won't perform and she will get bored and tired fast. Look for
something 14 feet or longer. The longer the better, but I suspect you
already know that.. Just makin' sure..

I really DONT know about kayak length because I cannot sit in a kayak
too easily (legs too long) so have not paid any attention to them.
Tell me about kayak length. *Why do they sell those really tiny 6'
ones? *Around here turning is critical in swampy areas with lots of
branches so too much length is bad I think (although it has never been
an issue for the 18' Grumman canoe). *I also worry about her being so
exposed to gators but I s'pose that is just me being an over
protective dad.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, as far as being comfortable, that is a matter of preference. My
issue with short kayaks is that they are very innefficient. If you are
fooling around the dock and in a pond, throwing it off the side of a
boat to get cooled off, or paddle out 50 feet and float around, go
ahead and get a 12 footer or even shorter. But if you are planning any
"paddling" in a straight line say across a half mile river, around
the island and up currant for a while, in other words, if you are
actually going to go anyplace with the boat, you want a long boat so
your arms don't die a half mile into the trip. I have seen folks down
around Essex adults and kids get into these short kayaks like a
Pungo, they us them three times, get frustrated because they are so
slow they can't even beat the current in the river, and they get put
in the garage and that is where they stay.... and rot.

On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 20:27:44 -0800, Frogwatch wrote:

I really DONT know about kayak length because I cannot sit in a kayak
too easily (legs too long) so have not paid any attention to them. Tell
me about kayak length. Why do they sell those really tiny 6' ones?
Around here turning is critical in swampy areas with lots of branches so
too much length is bad I think (although it has never been an issue for
the 18' Grumman canoe). I also worry about her being so exposed to
gators but I s'pose that is just me being an over protective dad.

Those "tiny 6' ones" are for whitewater, they are agile, but not very
good if you have to paddle for distance.

wrote in message
...
On Nov 17, 11:14 pm, Frogwatch wrote:
On Nov 17, 10:53 pm, wrote:





On Nov 17, 7:28 pm, Jim wrote:

Boater wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
I agree with HK that strip canoes are very pretty. I disagree over
practicality. OTOH, I have seen several boats that in the end were
not really meant to ever be used, One was a variation on the
Stevenson projects "Weekender" that was astonishing to look at with
varnish so clear and deep it looked like a hologram. Every detail
was
done right with cabinetry of such high quality that it was
exquisite.
She was on display as an example of the boatmakers art and had
never
seen water and probably wouldn'. Many strip canoes are like that,
once built, they are too perfect to be used. Would you really want
to
be on a canoe trip with one, the obsession over not scratching it
would make you nutso.
Around here, in summer, the river banks are lined with hornet nests
every 3' and you get into one you have a choice of paddling like
hell
and running yer boat over logs or jumping out into the gator
infested
water or running into the weeds where the snakes drop into the
boat.
A strip canoe will not stay pristine for more than an hour.
I believe a well used boat is a happy boat that inspires memories.

Strip or canvas over strip canoes are practical in the appropriate
waters. There are many lakes where using one can be a real pleasure.
I never recommended one for general use in areas where it might be
subject to being banged up.

The problem, of course, is that this newsgroup is infested with
assholes
who look for something, anything, even in possibly interested on
topic
subjects, they can use to post their usual lowbrow insults.

I don't mean you, not in this instance.

We used to canoe when I was a kid on a couple of really nice
Connecticut
lakes. Lake Zoar was one of them. I have no recollection of banging
up
the Old Town cedar and canvas canoes we were using. This was well
before
the days of plastic canoes. There were plenty of aluminum canoes, of
course, but jesus they were ugly. And noisy.

Those stripper canoes are more of a furniture item than a practical
boat. One would look nice on Wayne's lawn but still would need
maintenance to keep it looking good.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A decent strip canoe can take a beating and can be used in pretty wild
conditions.. Just cause it's pretty doesn't mean it's wimpy...

My 12 yr old daughter has decided she wants a "sit on" type kayak
instead of a "sit in" one so I will prob buy her a plastic one instead
of building one. Like I need more boats.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Be sure not to get sucked into the trap of a 10-12 footer. They just
won't perform and she will get bored and tired fast. Look for
something 14 feet or longer. The longer the better, but I suspect you
already know that.. Just makin' sure..
-------------------------------------

You may be correct because I never tried a longer kayak. But the 9' 7"
Hobie I had
seemed to handle fine and was easy to transport. It was probably on the
small side for an adult over 6' but I had no problem with it at 5' 11". or
5' 10" or 5' 9". I *was* 5' 11" at one time, but Mrs.E. says I am
shrinking. I tell her it's an illusion because actually she's still
growing.

In fact, now that I think about it, the guy that bought it from me was over
6 feet tall. I remember him showing up to look at it and I expressed doubt
that he would be comfortable in it.
He sat in it while it was sitting on the lawn, and had no problem with his
legs and feet relative to the pedal power duber. (it is adjustable)

Anyway, I would think that for a 12 year old kid, a smaller kayak might be
better, but what do I know?


Eisboch

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...

My 12 yr old daughter has decided she wants a "sit on" type kayak
instead of a "sit in" one so I will prob buy her a plastic one instead
of building one. Like I need more boats.


Take a look at these:

http://www.hobiecat.com/kayaking/models_sport.html

I had one very similar with the pedal power setup. Only 9' and has
removable wheels to transport it around. It was a blast and easy to paddle
or pedal. Even has a sail kit option.

Eisboch

"Eisboch" wrote in message
news

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...

My 12 yr old daughter has decided she wants a "sit on" type kayak
instead of a "sit in" one so I will prob buy her a plastic one instead
of building one. Like I need more boats.


Take a look at these:

http://www.hobiecat.com/kayaking/models_sport.html

I had one very similar with the pedal power setup. Only 9' and has
removable wheels to transport it around. It was a blast and easy to
paddle or pedal. Even has a sail kit option.

Eisboch


Have a friend who has the Hobie Sport. I can use it, but uncomfortable
after a time. Just not enough room for me. Can not stretch out the legs.