Canuck57 wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.
Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non
union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being
considerable MORE expensive.
GM vehicles are crap. Honda's and Toyota's are good quality vehicles.
GM cannot put the effort, money, into quality due to the costs they
have to pay for union labor and union benefits.

Yep...you are indeed simple-minded.
You are always looking at the problem from the labor perspective and
immediately assign blame to management. You are the simple-minded idiot.

You need to look at it from all angles and find the cause of the problem.
Corporations are run by management, not by the workers. Lately, management
has been incompetent. It's that simple.

Lately?

GM has been bleeding money for a generation.

Anyone thinks that they can turn them around now must be totally delusional.


That would be our boy Harold of neverland.

Boater wrote:
Jim wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
Jim wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas
prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions
priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term
thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.

Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non
union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being
considerable MORE expensive.
Right! Hondas and Toyotas are the problem. Quality is the problem.
Them scab non union workers is the problem. Ain't no union
problems. Boy, that's a relief.

BTW A billion dollars or so is going up in smoke around 8PM
tonight. Hope yall is watchin.


Life after the Navy, where you did not excel, must have been a hell
of a letdown for you, FloridaJim. I've never seen anyone here work
harder at being an idiot. Yes, yes, I know about Loogy and Just
Wait, but they don't have to work at it.

You're not that far from the Northeast Florida State Hospital at
Macclenny, right? I believe it is the one that serves your county.
You'd probably get better treatment there than at an old sailor's
home. Once you are Baker-acted, I'm sure you could get in there.


Has Harry turned a bit more sour than usual? It is amazing that his
candidate or party has won and he isn't jumping for joy in the streets.


It's interesting that neither you nor Florida Jim have boats. What
are you doing here?

Apparently we are bothering you something terrible. Ask your shrink
how to deal with it. You did make the appointment to see the lady at
the bricklayers union, didn't you?


You seem to be obsessed with my wife. She's in the middle of setting up
a substantial research project right now. Maybe you could be a subject.

If you're still on that Dr. thing, then you would be the subject to win
her a cover story.

Whatever she does, be glad she brings home the cash.

Don White wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
...
Boater wrote:
wrote:
On Nov 14, 3:12 pm, tin cup wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.
The Unions didn't do squat.
The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and
gambling did them in along with the rest of us.
How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are in a
union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever and
paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them before 6
mos.
Labor costs are a big part of gm's problem. Unfortunately the unions,
in their zeal, helped cause the problem. I mean let's face it, where
else besides auto plants could you get $25 - $30 dollars an hour for
semi-skilled labor. And the retirement programs are turning out to be
extremely costly. They were not based on your condtributions into an
account like today. They were fixed payouts based on your years of
service. A lot of those semi-skilled laborers retired at a fairly
young age and many get $50k or more a year in retirement.

What's your point, that a representative of assembly line works met at
the bargaining table with the employer of those workers and negotiated a
contract?
Negotiated a contract? I don't believe that for a minute.

That's the way it is supposed to be.
Who are we going to threaten with a strike this year?

The fix we are in right now has nothing to do with union workers and
everything to do with the landed aristocracy in this country of Wall
Street financial manipulators and corporate executives, and the hands-off
regulatory style of the Bush Administration. Even now, the crooks in the
Bush Administration won't tell us who is getting the bail-out money.
It has to do with union labor.

It's a wonder you know how to tie your shoelaces in the morning.
It's the greed of everyone involved in the auto industry....led by the
example of the senior management and the stupidity of the American consumer
always wanting bigger & better when durability, practicality, efficiency and
quality should have been the criteria.



What's the name of that big Canadian car company?

DK wrote:
Boater wrote:
Jim wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
Jim wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas
prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions
priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term
thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.

Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been.
Non
union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite
being
considerable MORE expensive.
Right! Hondas and Toyotas are the problem. Quality is the
problem. Them scab non union workers is the problem. Ain't no
union problems. Boy, that's a relief.

BTW A billion dollars or so is going up in smoke around 8PM
tonight. Hope yall is watchin.


Life after the Navy, where you did not excel, must have been a
hell of a letdown for you, FloridaJim. I've never seen anyone here
work harder at being an idiot. Yes, yes, I know about Loogy and
Just Wait, but they don't have to work at it.

You're not that far from the Northeast Florida State Hospital at
Macclenny, right? I believe it is the one that serves your county.
You'd probably get better treatment there than at an old sailor's
home. Once you are Baker-acted, I'm sure you could get in there.


Has Harry turned a bit more sour than usual? It is amazing that his
candidate or party has won and he isn't jumping for joy in the
streets.


It's interesting that neither you nor Florida Jim have boats. What
are you doing here?

Apparently we are bothering you something terrible. Ask your shrink
how to deal with it. You did make the appointment to see the lady at
the bricklayers union, didn't you?


You seem to be obsessed with my wife. She's in the middle of setting
up a substantial research project right now. Maybe you could be a
subject.

If you're still on that Dr. thing, then you would be the subject to win
her a cover story.

Whatever she does, be glad she brings home the cash.

The lady that runs the show there at union headquarters calls herself
Grear. Is Harry claiming she is his wife? There isn't any Grear Hyphen
Krause listed on the payroll. Krause must be blowing smoke again.

DK wrote:
Don White wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
...
Boater wrote:
wrote:
On Nov 14, 3:12 pm, tin cup wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas
prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions
priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term
thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.
The Unions didn't do squat.
The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and
gambling did them in along with the rest of us.
How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are
in a
union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever
and
paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them
before 6 mos.
Labor costs are a big part of gm's problem. Unfortunately the unions,
in their zeal, helped cause the problem. I mean let's face it, where
else besides auto plants could you get $25 - $30 dollars an hour for
semi-skilled labor. And the retirement programs are turning out to be
extremely costly. They were not based on your condtributions into an
account like today. They were fixed payouts based on your years of
service. A lot of those semi-skilled laborers retired at a fairly
young age and many get $50k or more a year in retirement.

What's your point, that a representative of assembly line works met
at the bargaining table with the employer of those workers and
negotiated a contract?
Negotiated a contract? I don't believe that for a minute.

That's the way it is supposed to be.
Who are we going to threaten with a strike this year?

The fix we are in right now has nothing to do with union workers and
everything to do with the landed aristocracy in this country of Wall
Street financial manipulators and corporate executives, and the
hands-off regulatory style of the Bush Administration. Even now, the
crooks in the Bush Administration won't tell us who is getting the
bail-out money.
It has to do with union labor.

It's a wonder you know how to tie your shoelaces in the morning.
It's the greed of everyone involved in the auto industry....led by the
example of the senior management and the stupidity of the American
consumer always wanting bigger & better when durability, practicality,
efficiency and quality should have been the criteria.


What's the name of that big Canadian car company?

Generel Motors Windsor Assembly Plant. See if Donny can spot the typo.

"Jim" wrote in message
...
DK wrote:
Don White wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
...
Boater wrote:
wrote:
On Nov 14, 3:12 pm, tin cup wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas
prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions
priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term
thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.
The Unions didn't do squat.
The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and
gambling did them in along with the rest of us.
How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are
in a
union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever
and
paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them
before 6 mos.
Labor costs are a big part of gm's problem. Unfortunately the
unions,
in their zeal, helped cause the problem. I mean let's face it, where
else besides auto plants could you get $25 - $30 dollars an hour for
semi-skilled labor. And the retirement programs are turning out to
be
extremely costly. They were not based on your condtributions into an
account like today. They were fixed payouts based on your years of
service. A lot of those semi-skilled laborers retired at a fairly
young age and many get $50k or more a year in retirement.

What's your point, that a representative of assembly line works met at
the bargaining table with the employer of those workers and negotiated
a contract?
Negotiated a contract? I don't believe that for a minute.

That's the way it is supposed to be.
Who are we going to threaten with a strike this year?

The fix we are in right now has nothing to do with union workers and
everything to do with the landed aristocracy in this country of Wall
Street financial manipulators and corporate executives, and the
hands-off regulatory style of the Bush Administration. Even now, the
crooks in the Bush Administration won't tell us who is getting the
bail-out money.
It has to do with union labor.

It's a wonder you know how to tie your shoelaces in the morning.
It's the greed of everyone involved in the auto industry....led by the
example of the senior management and the stupidity of the American
consumer always wanting bigger & better when durability, practicality,
efficiency and quality should have been the criteria.


What's the name of that big Canadian car company?

Generel Motors Windsor Assembly Plant. See if Donny can spot the typo.

Spot this...typo boy!

Don White wrote:
"Jim" wrote in message
...
DK wrote:
Don White wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
...
Boater wrote:
wrote:
On Nov 14, 3:12 pm, tin cup wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas
prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions
priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term
thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.
The Unions didn't do squat.
The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and
gambling did them in along with the rest of us.
How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are
in a
union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever
and
paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them
before 6 mos.
Labor costs are a big part of gm's problem. Unfortunately the
unions,
in their zeal, helped cause the problem. I mean let's face it, where
else besides auto plants could you get $25 - $30 dollars an hour for
semi-skilled labor. And the retirement programs are turning out to
be
extremely costly. They were not based on your condtributions into an
account like today. They were fixed payouts based on your years of
service. A lot of those semi-skilled laborers retired at a fairly
young age and many get $50k or more a year in retirement.
What's your point, that a representative of assembly line works met at
the bargaining table with the employer of those workers and negotiated
a contract?
Negotiated a contract? I don't believe that for a minute.

That's the way it is supposed to be.
Who are we going to threaten with a strike this year?

The fix we are in right now has nothing to do with union workers and
everything to do with the landed aristocracy in this country of Wall
Street financial manipulators and corporate executives, and the
hands-off regulatory style of the Bush Administration. Even now, the
crooks in the Bush Administration won't tell us who is getting the
bail-out money.
It has to do with union labor.
It's a wonder you know how to tie your shoelaces in the morning.
It's the greed of everyone involved in the auto industry....led by the
example of the senior management and the stupidity of the American
consumer always wanting bigger & better when durability, practicality,
efficiency and quality should have been the criteria.

What's the name of that big Canadian car company?
Generel Motors Windsor Assembly Plant. See if Donny can spot the typo.

Spot this...typo boy!



On a pass/fail basis that would clearly be a *fail*. Even I was
surprised to see that. Donnie is dumber than I thought.

That is still not a Canadian car company.

Eisboch wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message
...

Grossly overpaid incompetent management. Unbelieveable the compensation
packages they receive while the industry heads for the dumpster.

Maybe. But they are under a contract to be paid it, just like the
members of the UAW employees.

As horrifying and ridiculous as it is, it only becomes an issue when
times are tough. When GM was making money hand over fist, nobody cared
what the top management made. That's also when the employment contracts
were written.

I am not saying it's right. It's just a matter of fact. In good times
the shareholders want the best management their money can buy to maximize
their return on investment. In bad times they just want good
management.

Eisboch

You think there is a connection between "the best management" and the
astronomical deals many of these execs get? I don't.

My point was that nobody complained when times were good.

Eisboch



Oh, there were complaints aplenty. But probably not where you look. No
offense.

"DK" wrote in message
...
Don White wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
...
Boater wrote:
wrote:
On Nov 14, 3:12 pm, tin cup wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas
prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions
priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term
thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.
The Unions didn't do squat.
The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and
gambling did them in along with the rest of us.
How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are in
a
union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever
and
paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them before
6 mos.
Labor costs are a big part of gm's problem. Unfortunately the unions,
in their zeal, helped cause the problem. I mean let's face it, where
else besides auto plants could you get $25 - $30 dollars an hour for
semi-skilled labor. And the retirement programs are turning out to be
extremely costly. They were not based on your condtributions into an
account like today. They were fixed payouts based on your years of
service. A lot of those semi-skilled laborers retired at a fairly
young age and many get $50k or more a year in retirement.

What's your point, that a representative of assembly line works met at
the bargaining table with the employer of those workers and negotiated
a contract?
Negotiated a contract? I don't believe that for a minute.

That's the way it is supposed to be.
Who are we going to threaten with a strike this year?

The fix we are in right now has nothing to do with union workers and
everything to do with the landed aristocracy in this country of Wall
Street financial manipulators and corporate executives, and the
hands-off regulatory style of the Bush Administration. Even now, the
crooks in the Bush Administration won't tell us who is getting the
bail-out money.
It has to do with union labor.

It's a wonder you know how to tie your shoelaces in the morning.
It's the greed of everyone involved in the auto industry....led by the
example of the senior management and the stupidity of the American
consumer always wanting bigger & better when durability, practicality,
efficiency and quality should have been the criteria.

What's the name of that big Canadian car company?

Canada Car, what else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_Car_and_Foundry

Sucking government and tax payers money like a fish in water until they
finally sold it off and closed the plants. It was so good to have them off
the hind tit, saving tax payers billions. A poster child of why government
needs to stay out of business including subsidies, loans and the like. Much
like GM is now, just a whole lot smaller.

There was also Bricklin, an American who came to New Bruinswick because the
government money was so easy. All wasted cash. Taxpayers would have been
better off burning cash in the fireplace, at least they would be warm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bricklin_SV-1

Government into auto/transportation business is pure 100% suicide for the
cash you pour into it.

How we never learn. Add them to the likes of Bombardier, DeHavelin,
McDonnald Douglas. Pure sink holes for money to disappear.

You know, like banks in the US promising not to use government money for
executive bailouts. They will just us the money they would have used to run
the company instead.

Socialism sucks taxpayers down the rabbit hole.

"Jim" wrote in message
...
DK wrote:
Don White wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
...
Boater wrote:
wrote:
On Nov 14, 3:12 pm, tin cup wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas
prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions
priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term
thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.
The Unions didn't do squat.
The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and
gambling did them in along with the rest of us.
How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are
in a
union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever
and
paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them
before 6 mos.
Labor costs are a big part of gm's problem. Unfortunately the
unions,
in their zeal, helped cause the problem. I mean let's face it, where
else besides auto plants could you get $25 - $30 dollars an hour for
semi-skilled labor. And the retirement programs are turning out to
be
extremely costly. They were not based on your condtributions into an
account like today. They were fixed payouts based on your years of
service. A lot of those semi-skilled laborers retired at a fairly
young age and many get $50k or more a year in retirement.

What's your point, that a representative of assembly line works met at
the bargaining table with the employer of those workers and negotiated
a contract?
Negotiated a contract? I don't believe that for a minute.

That's the way it is supposed to be.
Who are we going to threaten with a strike this year?

The fix we are in right now has nothing to do with union workers and
everything to do with the landed aristocracy in this country of Wall
Street financial manipulators and corporate executives, and the
hands-off regulatory style of the Bush Administration. Even now, the
crooks in the Bush Administration won't tell us who is getting the
bail-out money.
It has to do with union labor.

It's a wonder you know how to tie your shoelaces in the morning.
It's the greed of everyone involved in the auto industry....led by the
example of the senior management and the stupidity of the American
consumer always wanting bigger & better when durability, practicality,
efficiency and quality should have been the criteria.


What's the name of that big Canadian car company?

Generel Motors Windsor Assembly Plant. See if Donny can spot the typo.

Government Motors.

There, fixed.