From what little I know about this I regard it as a design problem,
but I think that way (-: i.e. if it can't be produced simply and
consistently
then it wasn't designed for manufacturability (horrid word, but production
engineers use it a lot).

Blind gluing without the ability to inspect guarantees problems like this.

In my mind this is a poor design and the fact Malibu has decided to adopt a
procedure that is known to have problems and hasn't been able to correct it
in over 7 years of production is a bad choice. But they are building to a
lower price point and many people prefer to enjoy the savings inherent in
the processes that Malibu uses. Most boats won't have this problem.

"Mark Kovalcson" wrote in message
...
From what little I know about this I regard it as a design problem,
but I think that way (-: i.e. if it can't be produced simply and
consistently
then it wasn't designed for manufacturability (horrid word, but
production
engineers use it a lot).

Blind gluing without the ability to inspect guarantees problems like
this.

In my mind this is a poor design and the fact Malibu has decided to
adopt a
procedure that is known to have problems and hasn't been able to
correct it
in over 7 years of production is a bad choice. But they are building
to a
lower price point and many people prefer to enjoy the savings inherent
in
the processes that Malibu uses. Most boats won't have this problem.


Malibu only has this problem because they insist on using this stupid
hydro box. they have no other problems with construction. The hydro
box IMHO is a dumb thing, and as M has to know its a problem, I have no
idea why they haven't changed it. It seems that once the dealer fixes
it, it stays fixed, so I'd think the factory could do at least as good
a job. Using this hydo box has nothing to do with what price point they
are building to.

Malibu only has this problem because they insist on using this stupid
hydro box. they have no other problems with construction. The hydro
box IMHO is a dumb thing, and as M has to know its a problem, I have no
idea why they haven't changed it. It seems that once the dealer fixes
it, it stays fixed, so I'd think the factory could do at least as good
a job. Using this hydo box has nothing to do with what price point they
are building to.

I disagree. CC never would have put something like this into production
because they can't QC it according to their policy of being able to inspect
each part of the boat's construction. This is part of the R&D that they do.
MC wouldn't have let something like this continue either. Malibu being
stupid about this is part of their price point. They are using water
instead of a synthetic sound absorbing material, just like they use a
fiberglass only engine and pylon mount without metal reinforcement. Is it
fine most of the time sure is! Do they sometimes have to shim the pylon
because the fiberglass wallers out sure do! Once again, it is good enough
and most people benefit from the cost savings. I could and have gone on and
on and on ad infinitum, but it's past midnight and I just got back from the
lake and I'm wiped out. I also have no more to add about this.

"
I disagree. CC never would have put something like this into production
because they can't QC it according to their policy of being able to inspect
each part of the boat's construction. This is part of the R&D that they do.
MC wouldn't have let something like this continue either. Malibu being
stupid about this is part of their price point. They are using water
instead of a synthetic sound absorbing material, just like they use a
fiberglass only engine and pylon mount without metal reinforcement. Is it
fine most of the time sure is! Do they sometimes have to shim the pylon
because the fiberglass wallers out sure do! Once again, it is good enough
and most people benefit from the cost savings. I could and have gone on and
on and on ad infinitum, but it's past midnight and I just got back from the
lake and I'm wiped out. I also have no more to add about this.

Mark,

Your blind, anal,CC loyalty disgusts me. Your opinions can't be taken
seriously because you can't be truly subjective, your dislike of M and
your loyalty to CC will not allow you to be hoenstly subjective.
As for yor "price point" line of horse **** goes... save it. CC can
demand their over-inflated prices because of fools like you, but in
reality their boats are grossly over priced.

Glen Reeder

Y'know the difference between objectivity and subjectivity ?
Which one are you trying to accuse Mark of being incapable of ?


Glen Reeder wrote:

"
I disagree. CC never would have put something like this into production
because they can't QC it according to their policy of being able to inspect
each part of the boat's construction. This is part of the R&D that they do.
MC wouldn't have let something like this continue either. Malibu being
stupid about this is part of their price point. They are using water
instead of a synthetic sound absorbing material, just like they use a
fiberglass only engine and pylon mount without metal reinforcement. Is it
fine most of the time sure is! Do they sometimes have to shim the pylon
because the fiberglass wallers out sure do! Once again, it is good enough
and most people benefit from the cost savings. I could and have gone on and
on and on ad infinitum, but it's past midnight and I just got back from the
lake and I'm wiped out. I also have no more to add about this.

Mark,

Your blind, anal,CC loyalty disgusts me. Your opinions can't be taken
seriously because you can't be truly subjective, your dislike of M and
your loyalty to CC will not allow you to be hoenstly subjective.
As for yor "price point" line of horse **** goes... save it. CC can
demand their over-inflated prices because of fools like you, but in
reality their boats are grossly over priced.

Glen Reeder

Reg wrote in message ...
Y'know the difference between objectivity and subjectivity ?
Which one are you trying to accuse Mark of being incapable of ?

Objective: Not influenced by emotion or personal opinion.
Subjective: Existing within an individuals mind rather than outside.

I guess I am saying Mark is non-objective and very subjective.

Glen

"Glen Reeder" wrote in message
om...
Reg wrote in message
...
Y'know the difference between objectivity and subjectivity ?
Which one are you trying to accuse Mark of being incapable of ?

Objective: Not influenced by emotion or personal opinion.
Subjective: Existing within an individuals mind rather than outside.

I guess I am saying Mark is non-objective and very subjective.

Glen, everyone's opinions are dictated by their life experiences and the
only person that you may see as being objective might be yourself. You also
get sensitized to different things over time. I am NOT a wine expert and an
expensive bottle of wine is a complete waste on me. In fact I may not even
like it. Someone else with a sensitized palette will enjoy the subtle
flavors and the aroma. Here is a great example of a situation where I can
in no way see the difference between that expensive wine and a moderately
priced bottle 1/10 the cost. I will never pay for that because it doesn't
make sense to me. In this situation how could I ever remotely hope to give
an objective comparison? I don't notice the differences they aren't even on
my radar screen. I can only tell you what "I" like and what "I" don't like.
Now I'm also going to say that I can see and feel a difference between what
CC does and what Malibu does. I am also an engineer with very strong
feelings about engineering processes and CC's processes are better overall
for the things I consider priorities than the rest in this small market.
They are not perfect. There is still room for improvement. They also don't
do everything better than everyone else. It's all a matter of priorities.

Last weekend I got two beautiful women up on slalom skis and I watched a
very nice fireworks display from my boat. I'm sure my weekend would have
also been very enjoyable if I were in your boat. I really enjoy my boat a
lot and I personally believe it was worth every penny I paid for it. You
obviously feel the same way about your boat and in addition feel I spent too
much for my boat. As long as we both enjoy our boats and they meet our
expectations then it really doesn't matter, does it!

It's kind of weird how competitive this whole thing is. I look in the
parking lot and there are a dozen different manufacturers of car and truck
out there, Junkers to a 600SEL. The top brass own Lexus, BMW, Cadillac,
Mercedes. The CFO owned an old Silverado for a decade that he personally
dropped an engine into and that was worth less than a set of new tires for
it. I'm driving a 9 year old F150 that is paid for like my ski boat. I
consider that an important thing. I'm not likely to replace either of them
any time soon either.

Can I justify a vehicle that depreciates a few dollars for every mile driven
during the first few years? No and I can't afford it either. Is that 600SEL
overpriced? El presidente' doesn't seem to think so. He described it as
obscene in every way. Fair enough. Is it nicer than any car I have ever
owned, absolutely! I'm sure being a millionaire would change my viewpoints
on a number of things but I wouldn't change places with him for anything.

You and I both probably use our boats differently. We definitely have
different life experiences that led to our decisions to purchase our
respective boats. The bottom line is that if we both enjoy what we have, it
doesn't matter.

"Mark Kovalcson" wrote in message
...
Malibu only has this problem because they insist on using this
stupid
hydro box. they have no other problems with construction. The
hydro
box IMHO is a dumb thing, and as M has to know its a problem, I have
no
idea why they haven't changed it. It seems that once the dealer
fixes
it, it stays fixed, so I'd think the factory could do at least as
good
a job. Using this hydo box has nothing to do with what price point
they
are building to.

I disagree.


What are you disagreeing on??????? I said the same thing you did.

Malibu being
stupid about this is part of their price point. They are using water
instead of a synthetic sound absorbing material,


I'd bet that the extra glass and such that M uses equals what ever MC
and CC use. not even counting all the warranty claims. I think its
stupid, you think its stupid, but 3500 boat sales a year don't.

On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 00:16:36 -0400, "Mark Kovalcson"
wrote:

....
I disagree. ...

I see you found your old hard dive.