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#21
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malibu response question
Y'know the difference between objectivity and subjectivity ?
Which one are you trying to accuse Mark of being incapable of ? Glen Reeder wrote: " I disagree. CC never would have put something like this into production because they can't QC it according to their policy of being able to inspect each part of the boat's construction. This is part of the R&D that they do. MC wouldn't have let something like this continue either. Malibu being stupid about this is part of their price point. They are using water instead of a synthetic sound absorbing material, just like they use a fiberglass only engine and pylon mount without metal reinforcement. Is it fine most of the time sure is! Do they sometimes have to shim the pylon because the fiberglass wallers out sure do! Once again, it is good enough and most people benefit from the cost savings. I could and have gone on and on and on ad infinitum, but it's past midnight and I just got back from the lake and I'm wiped out. I also have no more to add about this. Mark, Your blind, anal,CC loyalty disgusts me. Your opinions can't be taken seriously because you can't be truly subjective, your dislike of M and your loyalty to CC will not allow you to be hoenstly subjective. As for yor "price point" line of horse **** goes... save it. CC can demand their over-inflated prices because of fools like you, but in reality their boats are grossly over priced. Glen Reeder |
#22
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malibu response question
"Mark Kovalcson" wrote in message ... Malibu only has this problem because they insist on using this stupid hydro box. they have no other problems with construction. The hydro box IMHO is a dumb thing, and as M has to know its a problem, I have no idea why they haven't changed it. It seems that once the dealer fixes it, it stays fixed, so I'd think the factory could do at least as good a job. Using this hydo box has nothing to do with what price point they are building to. I disagree. What are you disagreeing on??????? I said the same thing you did. Malibu being stupid about this is part of their price point. They are using water instead of a synthetic sound absorbing material, I'd bet that the extra glass and such that M uses equals what ever MC and CC use. not even counting all the warranty claims. I think its stupid, you think its stupid, but 3500 boat sales a year don't. |
#23
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Follow up
See the Tige site for an explanation. It works great. Basically they shape
the hull so that it wants to ride bow up (i.e. wake board mode). When you want to slalom you put the trim tab down that basically adds lift in the rear. This lift is normally present in a slalom hull. In "slalom" mode it meets tournament specs. Although you can certainly argue it may not have the perfect slalom wake. It's very versatile and slalom is not everything for our boat. I like it for when it's rough water and I want to bring the bow up. Folks in front stay a lot dryer. I never have it in the slalom position unless someone is skiing. "George Mills" wrote in message ... I took a couple Responses out and almost didn't buy a ski boat at all. All motor, noisy as hell and low quality. One was 2 years old and was completely falling apart. Then I looked at a used MC and said yes, now this is solid boat. I wanted a 20 foot bowrider so I ended up with a Tige. Not quite as solid as a MC but close and I liked the features (TAPS is a big plus) and price. I won't really know if I made the right choice for many years to come but I knew enough to stay away from malibu (for my needs). Malibu may have great wake but it didn't pass the wife test at all. Response "bow rider" (i.e. the hole the cut in the closed bow) is a bad joke too. "J.W. Frank" wrote in message ... Well, thanks to the web it would appear I have a much better understanding of the problem now. Various people have responded with information regarding this on-going problem from Malibu. First, I need to sincerely appologize to the local dealer. I feel bad that he is caught in the middle. If I were him, I would investigate a new product line (I'm sure he will if he hasn't already). Next, I need the boat fixed. Possibly so that I may sell it and go back to another, more reputable, company that takes concerns with customer satisfaction seriously. Third, I need to be sure that I share my story with as many skiers as possible. Maybe I am just one person who is insignificant in the eyes of Malibu but I still represent a group (competitive skiers) who made Malibu possible. Perhaps the should reflect more on where they came from. -Rant ON- Additionally, maybe they should spend more time fixing problems before they reach the consumer rather than putting a band-aid on them after the fact. It doesn't seem like a strong corporate philosophy to me. Maybe the surf-boys in Calif. just got a little too much sun to make a good decision. But hey, if it makes them money, who cares, right? - Rant OFF - Thanks to everyone out there with something to add. You have helped. I am done wasting bandwidth now. On to more productive things! -- "J.W. Frank" wrote: Just a quick question: if you recently handed over close to 30k for a new Malibu Response LX and it keeps taking on excessive water, what would you do? I returned it to the dealer. Multiple times. I spoke with the factory... twice. They seem to think it is a minor problem (the hydrobox is leaking and needs fiberglass repair). I think it is a major problem... a "manufacturing defect", if you will. I asked for another "new boat" that didn't leak. They said no way. I offered to trade it in and pay the difference if they would help me work through the dealer. They again said no, "it's a little problem". Mastercraft and Correct Craft never treated me this way. "Guy" (the customer service manager) at Malibu told me to go ahead and write this... that people would understand Malibu's position. I hope he is right...... For Sale, one Malibu Response LX with 10 hrs. Leaks like a sieve but Malibu says don't worry! I'll even take a loss on this one (hell, I've owned it since last August and haven't been able to ski behind it since then! That alone is a loss.) Make me an offer, I'm not kidding. I want a quality boat again. Comments welcome. Joe -- (pictures available upon request, it sure looks pretty) |
#24
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malibu response question
Reg wrote in message ...
Y'know the difference between objectivity and subjectivity ? Which one are you trying to accuse Mark of being incapable of ? Objective: Not influenced by emotion or personal opinion. Subjective: Existing within an individuals mind rather than outside. I guess I am saying Mark is non-objective and very subjective. Glen |
#25
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malibu response question
"Glen Reeder" wrote in message om... Reg wrote in message ... Y'know the difference between objectivity and subjectivity ? Which one are you trying to accuse Mark of being incapable of ? Objective: Not influenced by emotion or personal opinion. Subjective: Existing within an individuals mind rather than outside. I guess I am saying Mark is non-objective and very subjective. Glen, everyone's opinions are dictated by their life experiences and the only person that you may see as being objective might be yourself. You also get sensitized to different things over time. I am NOT a wine expert and an expensive bottle of wine is a complete waste on me. In fact I may not even like it. Someone else with a sensitized palette will enjoy the subtle flavors and the aroma. Here is a great example of a situation where I can in no way see the difference between that expensive wine and a moderately priced bottle 1/10 the cost. I will never pay for that because it doesn't make sense to me. In this situation how could I ever remotely hope to give an objective comparison? I don't notice the differences they aren't even on my radar screen. I can only tell you what "I" like and what "I" don't like. Now I'm also going to say that I can see and feel a difference between what CC does and what Malibu does. I am also an engineer with very strong feelings about engineering processes and CC's processes are better overall for the things I consider priorities than the rest in this small market. They are not perfect. There is still room for improvement. They also don't do everything better than everyone else. It's all a matter of priorities. Last weekend I got two beautiful women up on slalom skis and I watched a very nice fireworks display from my boat. I'm sure my weekend would have also been very enjoyable if I were in your boat. I really enjoy my boat a lot and I personally believe it was worth every penny I paid for it. You obviously feel the same way about your boat and in addition feel I spent too much for my boat. As long as we both enjoy our boats and they meet our expectations then it really doesn't matter, does it! It's kind of weird how competitive this whole thing is. I look in the parking lot and there are a dozen different manufacturers of car and truck out there, Junkers to a 600SEL. The top brass own Lexus, BMW, Cadillac, Mercedes. The CFO owned an old Silverado for a decade that he personally dropped an engine into and that was worth less than a set of new tires for it. I'm driving a 9 year old F150 that is paid for like my ski boat. I consider that an important thing. I'm not likely to replace either of them any time soon either. Can I justify a vehicle that depreciates a few dollars for every mile driven during the first few years? No and I can't afford it either. Is that 600SEL overpriced? El presidente' doesn't seem to think so. He described it as obscene in every way. Fair enough. Is it nicer than any car I have ever owned, absolutely! I'm sure being a millionaire would change my viewpoints on a number of things but I wouldn't change places with him for anything. You and I both probably use our boats differently. We definitely have different life experiences that led to our decisions to purchase our respective boats. The bottom line is that if we both enjoy what we have, it doesn't matter. |
#26
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malibu response question
On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 00:16:36 -0400, "Mark Kovalcson"
wrote: .... I disagree. ... I see you found your old hard dive. |
#27
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malibu response question
I'm REALLY surprised that Sun and Snow is not taking care of this for you.
They replaced my boat w/o problems and took care of it. I was really pleased with these guys, but time change I suppose. My gut is that they really didn't have someone on their staff that could actually do any type of serious repair to a Malibu, but they did have access to folks from other sources. ck "J.W. Frank" wrote in message ... 1 - The Dealer's name is "Sun and Snow" in Utica NY. There seems to be a whole seperate dealer/manufacturer issue here that needs to be addressed by someone other than myself (i.e. Malibu). 2 - Thanks for the confirmation that someone other than myself might have had this problem. It seems like a rediculous design, especially for a northern climate. It would seem that if any moisture remains in this area during off season strorage, our cold winter temperatures might make it worse (trust me, it was much worse this spring). 3 - Guy may be a real nice guy (pun intended) but that is not helping my problem. I am completely disgusted with this problem and how it was handled from the local level on up. Like I said, I was even willing to foot the bill to give Malibu one more shot but they wouldn't even work with me. Malibu should take customer satisfaction more seriously. Additionally, maybe they should consider competing with someone like Bayliner and forget about the competition ski boat area. 4 - Have they changed the design on this "common problem"? The idea is sound but the implementation sucks. How about a closed system that is oil filled or something? Then it wouldn't leak (or the environmental people would be all over them worse than I am!). 5 - Truth of the matter... I want my Mastercraft back. It was a quality product from a quality company. -- Doug Meredith wrote: "J.W. Frank" wrote in message ... Just a quick question: if you recently handed over close to 30k for a new Malibu Response LX and it keeps taking on excessive water, what would you do? They seem to think it is a minor problem (the hydrobox is leaking and needs fiberglass repair). I think it is a major problem... a "manufacturing defect", if you will. Mastercraft and Correct Craft never treated me this way. "Guy" (the customer service manager) at Malibu told me to go ahead and write this... that people would understand Malibu's position. I hope he is right...... This was a common problem with Malibu's. The hydo damping box leaked. If your boat is new, I'm surprised that you are having this problem. Its an easy fix if the dealer has a clue. They have to find what part of the box is leakings, grind out the old Plexus, and replace with new. I've never seen one that leaked so bad that the bilgh pump even came on. Guy Coward is a good guy, and should take care of your problem for you. This is a dealer issue to get fixed. I'd be screaming at the dealer, or talking to Malibu to have the dealer get it fixed NOW. What dealer did you buy it from? |
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