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  #21   Report Post  
Reg
 
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Default malibu response question

Y'know the difference between objectivity and subjectivity ?
Which one are you trying to accuse Mark of being incapable of ?


Glen Reeder wrote:

"
I disagree. CC never would have put something like this into production
because they can't QC it according to their policy of being able to inspect
each part of the boat's construction. This is part of the R&D that they do.
MC wouldn't have let something like this continue either. Malibu being
stupid about this is part of their price point. They are using water
instead of a synthetic sound absorbing material, just like they use a
fiberglass only engine and pylon mount without metal reinforcement. Is it
fine most of the time sure is! Do they sometimes have to shim the pylon
because the fiberglass wallers out sure do! Once again, it is good enough
and most people benefit from the cost savings. I could and have gone on and
on and on ad infinitum, but it's past midnight and I just got back from the
lake and I'm wiped out. I also have no more to add about this.


Mark,

Your blind, anal,CC loyalty disgusts me. Your opinions can't be taken
seriously because you can't be truly subjective, your dislike of M and
your loyalty to CC will not allow you to be hoenstly subjective.
As for yor "price point" line of horse **** goes... save it. CC can
demand their over-inflated prices because of fools like you, but in
reality their boats are grossly over priced.

Glen Reeder

  #22   Report Post  
Doug Meredith
 
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Default malibu response question


"Mark Kovalcson" wrote in message
...
Malibu only has this problem because they insist on using this

stupid
hydro box. they have no other problems with construction. The

hydro
box IMHO is a dumb thing, and as M has to know its a problem, I have

no
idea why they haven't changed it. It seems that once the dealer

fixes
it, it stays fixed, so I'd think the factory could do at least as

good
a job. Using this hydo box has nothing to do with what price point

they
are building to.


I disagree.



What are you disagreeing on??????? I said the same thing you did.

Malibu being
stupid about this is part of their price point. They are using water
instead of a synthetic sound absorbing material,



I'd bet that the extra glass and such that M uses equals what ever MC
and CC use. not even counting all the warranty claims. I think its
stupid, you think its stupid, but 3500 boat sales a year don't.




  #23   Report Post  
George Mills
 
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Default Follow up

See the Tige site for an explanation. It works great. Basically they shape
the hull so that it wants to ride bow up (i.e. wake board mode). When you
want to slalom you put the trim tab down that basically adds lift in the
rear. This lift is normally present in a slalom hull. In "slalom" mode it
meets tournament specs. Although you can certainly argue it may not have the
perfect slalom wake. It's very versatile and slalom is not everything for
our boat.

I like it for when it's rough water and I want to bring the bow up. Folks
in front stay a lot dryer. I never have it in the slalom position unless
someone is skiing.

"George Mills" wrote in message
...
I took a couple Responses out and almost didn't buy a ski boat at all.
All motor, noisy as hell and low quality. One was 2 years old and was
completely falling apart.

Then I looked at a used MC and said yes, now this is solid boat.
I wanted a 20 foot bowrider so I ended up with a Tige.
Not quite as solid as a MC but close and I liked the features (TAPS is a

big
plus) and price.

I won't really know if I made the right choice for many years to come but

I
knew enough to stay away from malibu (for my needs).
Malibu may have great wake but it didn't pass the wife test at all.

Response "bow rider" (i.e. the hole the cut in the closed bow) is a bad

joke
too.

"J.W. Frank" wrote in message
...
Well, thanks to the web it would appear I have a much better

understanding
of the problem now. Various people have responded with information
regarding this on-going problem from Malibu.

First, I need to sincerely appologize to the local dealer. I feel bad

that
he is caught in the middle. If I were him, I would investigate a new
product line (I'm sure he will if he hasn't already).

Next, I need the boat fixed. Possibly so that I may sell it and go back


to
another, more reputable, company that takes concerns with customer
satisfaction seriously.

Third, I need to be sure that I share my story with as many skiers as
possible. Maybe I am just one person who is insignificant in the eyes

of
Malibu but I still represent a group (competitive skiers) who made

Malibu
possible. Perhaps the should reflect more on where they came from.

-Rant ON-

Additionally, maybe they should spend more time fixing problems before

they
reach the consumer rather than putting a band-aid on them after the

fact.
It doesn't seem like a strong corporate philosophy to me. Maybe the
surf-boys in Calif. just got a little too much sun to make a good

decision.
But hey, if it makes them money, who cares, right?

- Rant OFF -

Thanks to everyone out there with something to add. You have helped. I

am
done wasting bandwidth now. On to more productive things!

--

"J.W. Frank" wrote:

Just a quick question: if you recently handed over close to 30k for a
new Malibu Response LX and it keeps taking on excessive water, what
would you do?

I returned it to the dealer. Multiple times.
I spoke with the factory... twice.

They seem to think it is a minor problem (the hydrobox is leaking and
needs fiberglass repair). I think it is a major problem... a
"manufacturing defect", if you will.

I asked for another "new boat" that didn't leak. They said no way. I
offered to trade it in and pay the difference if they would help me

work
through the dealer. They again said no, "it's a little problem".

Mastercraft and Correct Craft never treated me this way. "Guy" (the
customer service manager) at Malibu told me to go ahead and write
this... that people would understand Malibu's position. I hope he is
right......

For Sale, one Malibu Response LX with 10 hrs. Leaks like a sieve but
Malibu says don't worry! I'll even take a loss on this one (hell,

I've
owned it since last August and haven't been able to ski behind it

since
then! That alone is a loss.) Make me an offer, I'm not kidding. I
want a quality boat again.

Comments welcome.

Joe --
(pictures available upon request, it sure looks pretty)






  #24   Report Post  
Glen Reeder
 
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Default malibu response question

Reg wrote in message ...
Y'know the difference between objectivity and subjectivity ?
Which one are you trying to accuse Mark of being incapable of ?


Objective: Not influenced by emotion or personal opinion.
Subjective: Existing within an individuals mind rather than outside.

I guess I am saying Mark is non-objective and very subjective.

Glen
  #25   Report Post  
Mark Kovalcson
 
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Default malibu response question


"Glen Reeder" wrote in message
om...
Reg wrote in message

...
Y'know the difference between objectivity and subjectivity ?
Which one are you trying to accuse Mark of being incapable of ?


Objective: Not influenced by emotion or personal opinion.
Subjective: Existing within an individuals mind rather than outside.

I guess I am saying Mark is non-objective and very subjective.


Glen, everyone's opinions are dictated by their life experiences and the
only person that you may see as being objective might be yourself. You also
get sensitized to different things over time. I am NOT a wine expert and an
expensive bottle of wine is a complete waste on me. In fact I may not even
like it. Someone else with a sensitized palette will enjoy the subtle
flavors and the aroma. Here is a great example of a situation where I can
in no way see the difference between that expensive wine and a moderately
priced bottle 1/10 the cost. I will never pay for that because it doesn't
make sense to me. In this situation how could I ever remotely hope to give
an objective comparison? I don't notice the differences they aren't even on
my radar screen. I can only tell you what "I" like and what "I" don't like.
Now I'm also going to say that I can see and feel a difference between what
CC does and what Malibu does. I am also an engineer with very strong
feelings about engineering processes and CC's processes are better overall
for the things I consider priorities than the rest in this small market.
They are not perfect. There is still room for improvement. They also don't
do everything better than everyone else. It's all a matter of priorities.

Last weekend I got two beautiful women up on slalom skis and I watched a
very nice fireworks display from my boat. I'm sure my weekend would have
also been very enjoyable if I were in your boat. I really enjoy my boat a
lot and I personally believe it was worth every penny I paid for it. You
obviously feel the same way about your boat and in addition feel I spent too
much for my boat. As long as we both enjoy our boats and they meet our
expectations then it really doesn't matter, does it!

It's kind of weird how competitive this whole thing is. I look in the
parking lot and there are a dozen different manufacturers of car and truck
out there, Junkers to a 600SEL. The top brass own Lexus, BMW, Cadillac,
Mercedes. The CFO owned an old Silverado for a decade that he personally
dropped an engine into and that was worth less than a set of new tires for
it. I'm driving a 9 year old F150 that is paid for like my ski boat. I
consider that an important thing. I'm not likely to replace either of them
any time soon either.

Can I justify a vehicle that depreciates a few dollars for every mile driven
during the first few years? No and I can't afford it either. Is that 600SEL
overpriced? El presidente' doesn't seem to think so. He described it as
obscene in every way. Fair enough. Is it nicer than any car I have ever
owned, absolutely! I'm sure being a millionaire would change my viewpoints
on a number of things but I wouldn't change places with him for anything.

You and I both probably use our boats differently. We definitely have
different life experiences that led to our decisions to purchase our
respective boats. The bottom line is that if we both enjoy what we have, it
doesn't matter.




  #26   Report Post  
Tom Ruta
 
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Default malibu response question

On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 00:16:36 -0400, "Mark Kovalcson"
wrote:

....
I disagree. ...


I see you found your old hard dive.
  #27   Report Post  
CHK
 
Posts: n/a
Default malibu response question

I'm REALLY surprised that Sun and Snow is not taking care of this for you.
They replaced my boat w/o problems and took care of it. I was really
pleased with these guys, but time change I suppose. My gut is that they
really didn't have someone on their staff that could actually do any type of
serious repair to a Malibu, but they did have access to folks from other
sources.

ck



"J.W. Frank" wrote in message
...
1 - The Dealer's name is "Sun and Snow" in Utica NY. There seems to be a
whole seperate dealer/manufacturer issue here that needs to be addressed

by
someone other than myself (i.e. Malibu).

2 - Thanks for the confirmation that someone other than myself might have
had this problem. It seems like a rediculous design, especially for a
northern climate. It would seem that if any moisture remains in this area
during off season strorage, our cold winter temperatures might make it

worse
(trust me, it was much worse this spring).

3 - Guy may be a real nice guy (pun intended) but that is not helping my
problem. I am completely disgusted with this problem and how it was

handled
from the local level on up. Like I said, I was even willing to foot the
bill to give Malibu one more shot but they wouldn't even work with me.
Malibu should take customer satisfaction more seriously. Additionally,
maybe they should consider competing with someone like Bayliner and forget
about the competition ski boat area.

4 - Have they changed the design on this "common problem"? The idea is
sound but the implementation sucks. How about a closed system that is oil
filled or something? Then it wouldn't leak (or the environmental people
would be all over them worse than I am!).

5 - Truth of the matter... I want my Mastercraft back. It was a quality
product from a quality company.

--

Doug Meredith wrote:

"J.W. Frank" wrote in message
...
Just a quick question: if you recently handed over close to 30k for a
new Malibu Response LX and it keeps taking on excessive water, what
would you do?
They seem to think it is a minor problem (the hydrobox is leaking and
needs fiberglass repair). I think it is a major problem... a
"manufacturing defect", if you will.
Mastercraft and Correct Craft never treated me this way. "Guy" (the
customer service manager) at Malibu told me to go ahead and write
this... that people would understand Malibu's position. I hope he is
right......


This was a common problem with Malibu's. The hydo damping box leaked.
If your boat is new, I'm surprised that you are having this problem.
Its an easy fix if the dealer has a clue. They have to find what part
of the box is leakings, grind out the old Plexus, and replace with new.
I've never seen one that leaked so bad that the bilgh pump even came
on. Guy Coward is a good guy, and should take care of your problem for
you. This is a dealer issue to get fixed. I'd be screaming at the
dealer, or talking to Malibu to have the dealer get it fixed NOW. What
dealer did you buy it from?




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