Ive got to put together a charging system for my thunderbird 26, and my
engine consists of an outboard without an alternator. If bang for buck was
your main concern, with size and noise being secondary, do you think you'd
get more charging amps by hooking up a generator to a charger, or taking a
similar sized stationary engine and hooking it up to as many alternators as
it could handle? Is there another option?

Shaun

Shaun Van Poecke wrote:
Ive got to put together a charging system for my thunderbird 26, and
my engine consists of an outboard without an alternator. If bang for
buck was your main concern, with size and noise being secondary, do
you think you'd get more charging amps by hooking up a generator to a
charger, or taking a similar sized stationary engine and hooking it
up to as many alternators as it could handle? Is there another
option?

Shaun

You can buy generator "packs" which are enclosed in heavily-silenced
enclosures for small boats/yachts. Most are diesel, and will tuck away under
a berth with exhaust outlet etc. thru-hull.

On Wed, 27 Dec 2006 08:09:41 GMT, "Shaun Van Poecke"
wrote:

Ive got to put together a charging system for my thunderbird 26, and my
engine consists of an outboard without an alternator. If bang for buck was
your main concern, with size and noise being secondary, do you think you'd
get more charging amps by hooking up a generator to a charger, or taking a
similar sized stationary engine and hooking it up to as many alternators as
it could handle? Is there another option?

Shaun

For a Thunderbird, I think I'd look for an outboard that had an
alternator, and carry an AC charger. You won't have much space to
store a portable generator.

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For a Thunderbird, I think I'd look for an outboard that had an
alternator, and carry an AC charger. You won't have much space to
store a portable generator.

You're right about not having much space to store anything ;-) Most
thunderbirds have an outboard well in the stern, so the outboard can popup
out of the water and be stored there. Ive got an outboard bracket on my
stern, so that area of storage which is a reasoanble size is free. I could
pretty easily fit a small generator in there (maybe 1000watts) but Im trying
to keep weight down in the stern if i can.

I'd originally envisioned having a very paired down electrical system; a
single100AH battery, which would run a cabin fluro, nav/anchor lights, a
bilge pump, and a cd player, and occasional use of a laptop. The CD player
only draws 1amp, the bilge pump sees hardly any use and if i go with LED nav
lights i should be able to keep my power consumption down to somewhere
around 20Ah/day.

I was thinking to go with a generator to give me some flexibility to use
power tools when i need to, but now its looking more like i might go with a
30W-40W solar panel and a honda 9.9 4 stroke with an alternator in it.

Shaun

Shaun Van Poecke wrote:
For a Thunderbird, I think I'd look for an outboard that had an
alternator, and carry an AC charger. You won't have much space to
store a portable generator.

You're right about not having much space to store anything ;-) Most
thunderbirds have an outboard well in the stern, so the outboard can popup
out of the water and be stored there. Ive got an outboard bracket on my
stern, so that area of storage which is a reasoanble size is free. I could
pretty easily fit a small generator in there (maybe 1000watts) but Im trying
to keep weight down in the stern if i can.

I'd originally envisioned having a very paired down electrical system; a
single100AH battery, which would run a cabin fluro, nav/anchor lights, a
bilge pump, and a cd player, and occasional use of a laptop. The CD player
only draws 1amp, the bilge pump sees hardly any use and if i go with LED nav
lights i should be able to keep my power consumption down to somewhere
around 20Ah/day.

I was thinking to go with a generator to give me some flexibility to use
power tools when i need to, but now its looking more like i might go with a
30W-40W solar panel and a honda 9.9 4 stroke with an alternator in it.

Shaun



Folks, let's keep both oars in the water on this topic and pay more
attention to science than to hysterics! ;-)

Consider the following quote:

"In general, lead-acid batteries may be recharged at any rate that does
not produce excessive gassing, overcharge, or high temperatures.
Discharged batteries may be recharged at a high current initially.
However, once the battery approaches its full charge the current must be
decreased to reduce gassing and excessive overcharging."

The above is a direct quote from:

http://www.eh.doe.gov/techstds/Stand...4/hdbk1084.pdf
hdbk1084.pdf (application/pdf Object)

The bottom line is that lead acid batteries CAN be charged at higher
rates than with an automobile charger that is designed to replace the
very small amount of capacity used to start a vehicle. One cannot charge
at increasing rates without limit, of course.

At some point, the chemistry may theoretically set a limit on maximum
charging rate, but in reality, it is "gassing, overcharge, or high
temperatures" that we need to be concerned with. These factors are
well-known and incorporated into smart charger designs so that maximum
charging rates will fall on the safe side of danger to the battery.

There seems to be no disagreement that battery charging rates are at
least partially up to the user: a Radio Shack solar cell will charge at
a far slower rate than an automotive alternator/regulator. A constant
current charger will charge at a far faster rate than an automotive
alternator/regulator. Assertions to the contrary really need scientific
backup and support.

Chuck

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"Shaun Van Poecke" wrote in news:9Tpkh.14153
:

do you think you'd
get more charging amps by hooking up a generator to a charger

Doesn't matter. As I told you in another thread, batteries won't charge at
400A for 5 minutes, no matter what you do. Charging happends SLOWLY over
HOURS...a SLOW chemical process that cannot be dreamed faster.....

Larry makes a good point.

What outboard do you have? Maybe an alternator can be added to it.


"Larry" wrote in message ...
"Shaun Van Poecke" wrote in news:9Tpkh.14153
:

do you think you'd
get more charging amps by hooking up a generator to a charger

Doesn't matter. As I told you in another thread, batteries won't charge at
400A for 5 minutes, no matter what you do. Charging happends SLOWLY over
HOURS...a SLOW chemical process that cannot be dreamed faster.....

Larry makes a good point.

What outboard do you have? Maybe an alternator can be added to it.

At the moment i've got a honda 2HP 4 stoke. I'd hate to fit an alternator
to it for double the weight and half the power ;-) Ive been looking over
the last 3 months for a second hand Honda 9.9 4stroke high thrust,
preferably one only a couple of years old. Honda dealers in sydney are
trying to sell these new with all the forward controls and without a tiller
for AU$3,300. Id be pretty happy to get one a couple of years old in the
plain vanilla tiller control which has an electric start and an alternator
for maybe AU$1500. Then i would have a bit of power and i can use the 2
pony on my dinghy, and as a backup motor.

Shaun

"Shaun Van Poecke" wrote in
:

Larry makes a good point.

What outboard do you have? Maybe an alternator can be added to it.

At the moment i've got a honda 2HP 4 stoke. I'd hate to fit an
alternator to it for double the weight and half the power ;-) Ive
been looking over the last 3 months for a second hand Honda 9.9
4stroke high thrust, preferably one only a couple of years old. Honda
dealers in sydney are trying to sell these new with all the forward
controls and without a tiller for AU$3,300. Id be pretty happy to get
one a couple of years old in the plain vanilla tiller control which
has an electric start and an alternator for maybe AU$1500. Then i
would have a bit of power and i can use the 2 pony on my dinghy, and
as a backup motor.

Shaun




If I lived in Oz, I'd probably get:
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~minards/ymde_out.html
and just change the boat it was attached to every few years.

The Americans ruined the diesel outboards, here, by pricing them so high
even the rich people refused to buy them. They don't even offer them,
now. I can understand why a dealer wouldn't want you to have one that
didn't require constant replacement and maintenance, like the crap they
sell here.

"Twin Yanmar diesel outboards powered a seacrafi for the first time
across the Pacific from San Francisco to Hawaii; a record 2250 miles of
non-stop running using only 385 gallons of fuel."

--
http://www.epic.org/privacy/rfid/verichip.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VeriChip
http://www.verichipcorp.com/
Tracked like a dog, every license/product/tax.
Revelation 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor,
free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their
foreheads:
17 and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the
name of the beast, or the number of his name...

Its a funny thing about the states, and i hear much the same from friends
who have jeeps.... Diesel versions of them are just never released. A lot
of 4WD vehicles in aus come as diesel and it sure has lots of benefits.....
not very flammable, will run upside down, better servicing intervals, longer
engine life, more torque at lower RPMs etc etc. Probably something to do
with politics i guess ;-)

Ive looked at a couple of diesel outboard, but they seemed outrageously
expensive compared to 4 stroke outboards of the same size, costing 5x as
much or more. They do seem to be reasonably priced compared to diesel
inboards, but thats apples and oranges for me.

Ive seen some weird looking chinese outboards on ebay lately, but im staying
well clear for the moment. They have a range of 4 stroke and diesel
outboards at silly cheap prices, but they're all stationary air cooled
engines sitting on a base with no plastics or covers to protect them from
the weather, with a simple leg bolted onto them. I think the price for the
diesel (cant remember the HP, but might have been 6 or 7) was around
AU$1,000 new. For comparison, that would probably get you, say, a Yamaha
3.3 2 stroke new. It might not be a bad concept, but im sure there'll be
lots of issues with life, spare parts, non stainless fasteners and
protection from weather.

Shaun


If I lived in Oz, I'd probably get:
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~minards/ymde_out.html
and just change the boat it was attached to every few years.

The Americans ruined the diesel outboards, here, by pricing them so high
even the rich people refused to buy them. They don't even offer them,
now. I can understand why a dealer wouldn't want you to have one that
didn't require constant replacement and maintenance, like the crap they
sell here.

"Twin Yanmar diesel outboards powered a seacrafi for the first time
across the Pacific from San Francisco to Hawaii; a record 2250 miles of
non-stop running using only 385 gallons of fuel."