We just to start a nonprofit company called the Associtation of Hobyist and
with about 100 persons we bought it at 116 $ per person and build a web
forum for everyone to use it and to contribute to the development of new
toys a la OpenSource.

Who whant to start it ?


wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm interested in developing marine electronics for educational
research purposes.

The NMEA 2000 standard looks interesting. But $3999.00 for just the
main document? (actually, from what I glean from the order page the
entire suite costs you $11,648) Are they kidding??? Now I've come to
expect such stupidity from closed, proprietary standards but check this
out:

http://www.nmea.org/pdf/NMEA2000info.pdf

It actually says, as the title: "NMEA 2000® Marine Network Standard,
The Open Non-Proprietary Industry Wide Standard"

What the f??? This is niether "Open" or "Non-Proprietary"!

It's certainly proprietary, here's a definition of proprietary:
1. belonging to a proprietor.
2. being a proprietor; holding property: the proprietary class.
3. pertaining to property or ownership: proprietary wealth.
4. belonging or controlled as property.
5. manufactured and sold only by the owner of the patent,
formula, brand name, or trademark associated with the
product: proprietary medicine.
6. privately owned and operated for profit: proprietary
hospitals.

I *have* to pay for it (or break copyright laws) and that makes it
proprietary.

It isn't open because once I know the information I am not allowed to
republish it. So It's no more open than anything else I reverse
engineer.

Hey: NMEA... Did you notice that sales of the last standard weren't
fabulous and so with the new standard you thought "Hey, we've got to
make more money with this. How? We'll jack up the price by TEN TIMES as
much. But people won't want to pay that much. They will if we market
the hell out of it and use popular buzz words such as "Open" and
"Non-proprietary". It's working for Linux it will work for us too!"

Well, I've got news for you... It's working for others because their
standards ARE actually open and non-proprietary.

If I had the funds, I'd sue you for false advertising.

what annoys me the most about NMEA is that the organization says it was
formed to arrive at some sort of standardization, and so NMEA 0183, and
now 2000. However, the bozos at Raymarine have decided to make
SeaTalk, just to muddy the waters. Want to connect a Garmin? Sure,
that's where the NMEA standard is supposed to work, but instead, we
have to buy a multiplexer so that these gadgets can network. So, based
on NMEAs own mission statement, they are a failure.

"luc" wrote in news:1162336132.387179.191880
@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

NMEAs own mission statement, they are a failure.


Not at all. Look at the millions made on selling those boat suckers NMEA
gadgets at awful prices.....

I'd say NMEA has been quite successful....for their members, that is.



Larry
--
I'm manning the talking pumpkin, tonight, same as every Halloween. Most
kids never talked to a pumpkin with a candle in it, before.
(Radio Shack little intercom makes it easier to hear them, this year.)

When he brings back his friends, the stupid pumpkin says nothing. Pumpkins
can't talk, you know....(c;

If he/she comes to the door and says the pumpkin talked to him/her, he/she
gets a golden dollar coin, instead of the cheap candy....

what annoys me the most about NMEA is that the organization says it was
formed to arrive at some sort of standardization, and so NMEA 0183, and
now 2000. However, the bozos at Raymarine have decided to make
SeaTalk, just to muddy the waters. Want to connect a Garmin? Sure,
that's where the NMEA standard is supposed to work, but instead, we
have to buy a multiplexer so that these gadgets can network. So, based
on NMEAs own mission statement, they are a failure.

Oh please, that's ridiculous. Technology has significantly changed since
NMEA-0183 was started. What it sought to accomplish at the time was quite
ambitious. Likewise for the NMEA-2000 spec. That 0183 didn't do what
Raymarine NEEDED meant they had to implement something else, but also
supported the 0183 spec. Likewise for the 2000 spec. The hassle with the
2000 spec has been the delay in standardizing the hardware connection (now
done). But it's trivial to splice from a SeaTalk2, LowranceNet and Micro-C
connector and have it all "just work". I know, I've done it.

So if all your looking to do is whinge, well, keep at it.

Bill Kearney wrote:
what annoys me the most about NMEA is that the organization says it was
formed to arrive at some sort of standardization, and so NMEA 0183, and
now 2000. However, the bozos at Raymarine have decided to make
SeaTalk, just to muddy the waters. Want to connect a Garmin? Sure,
that's where the NMEA standard is supposed to work, but instead, we
have to buy a multiplexer so that these gadgets can network. So, based
on NMEAs own mission statement, they are a failure.

Oh please, that's ridiculous. Technology has significantly changed since
NMEA-0183 was started. What it sought to accomplish at the time was quite
ambitious. Likewise for the NMEA-2000 spec. That 0183 didn't do what
Raymarine NEEDED meant they had to implement something else, but also
supported the 0183 spec. Likewise for the 2000 spec. The hassle with the
2000 spec has been the delay in standardizing the hardware connection (now
done). But it's trivial to splice from a SeaTalk2, LowranceNet and Micro-C
connector and have it all "just work". I know, I've done it.

So if all your looking to do is whinge, well, keep at it.


Concur. Progress of what's possible makes even keeping everything
interoperable within a single manufacturer hard.

Raymarine had just Seatalk (v1) for a long while, with NMEA on some
hardware to exchange data with other brands, but now we have Seatalk2
(=NMEA2000= 1Mb CANbus) and SeatalkHS (=100 Mb Ethernet). So far so
good. However, their old implementation of ST2 (ST-290 range of
instruments) is apparently not compatible with ST2 as implemented in the
newer E-series displays: the documentation examples and notes tell you
NOT to link ST-290 to the E-series through ST2 but thru ST1!

luc wrote:
what annoys me the most about NMEA is that the organization says it was
formed to arrive at some sort of standardization, and so NMEA 0183, and
now 2000. However, the bozos at Raymarine have decided to make
SeaTalk, just to muddy the waters. Want to connect a Garmin? Sure,
that's where the NMEA standard is supposed to work, but instead, we
have to buy a multiplexer so that these gadgets can network.

Just to set the record straight:

1. With NMEA-0183 a multiplexer is only needed when you want to connect
multiple talkers to a single input. An NMEA-0183 talker (sender) can
drive four inputs.

2. NMEA-2000 does not need any multiplexers.

--
Kees

So, anybady have a particular manual of NMEA2000. i'm very interesting
in it.

"waldini" wrote in message
oups.com...
So, anybady have a particular manual of NMEA2000. i'm very interesting
in it.

Why do you think that if anyone paid $3800 for the standard, he/she would
give you a copy?
It is, after all, copyrighted material.

Meindert

waldini wrote:
So, anybady have a particular manual of NMEA2000. i'm very interesting
in it.

This is helpful:

http://www.maretron.com/products/cabling.php