On 2006-03-26 02:14:00 +1100, "Steve Lusardi" said:

AIS.Wonderful idea! Perhaps all the responders of this thread should
think a little more about where this is really going. AIS is being
seriously abused by Internet broadcast and other unintended recording
of AIS traffic, as well as environmentalists and governments (the real
pirates). The net result is everyone will have one because of
regulations and no one will turn them on because of the loss of
security, risk of fines, unecessary taxation or other abuses soon to
appear. Damn shame.
Steve

"Pascal" wrote in message
oups.com...

This is posted on the IMO page: what are the concerns ans implications?
I have seen many people broadcasting the ships positions on the webb.

Maritime security - AIS ship data

At its79th session in December 2004, the Maritime Safety Committee
(MSC) agreed that, in relation to the issue of freely available
automatic information system (AIS)-generated ship data on the
world-wide web, the publication on the world-wide web or elsewhere of
AIS data transmitted by ships could be detrimental to the safety and
security of ships and port facilities and was undermining the efforts
of the Organization and its Member States to enhance the safety of
navigation and security in the international maritime transport sector.


The Committee condemned the regrettable publication on the world-wide
web, or elsewhere, of AIS data transmitted by ships and urged Member
Governments, subject to the provisions of their national laws, to
discourage those who make available AIS data to others for publication
on the world-wide web, or elsewhere from doing so.

In addition, the Committee condemned those who irresponsibly publish
AIS data transmitted by ships on the world-wide web, or elsewhere,
particularly if they offer services to the shipping and port
industries.

AIS is really only just the beginning. What is to prevent bouyage from
being AIS literate come to think of it we don't need a physical bouy
anymore just an AIS signal with the GPS coordinates of where the bouy
should be. Also could be used for isolated danger marks etc. As these
things don't move the beaconing time would be fairly long. Thus AIS
could start to form the basis of a virtual navaids system. Add a chart
background and voila you have an instanly updated marine chart
(ignoring depth conours etc).

I agree with Dennis. Don't blame AIS because there are a few people out
there who use the data for their own purposes (terrorists/criminals).
Just have the political will to solve that problem.

--
Regards,
John D Proctor

"John Proctor" wrote in message
news:2006032608152075249-lost@nowhereorg...
On 2006-03-26 02:14:00 +1100, "Steve Lusardi"
said:

AIS.Wonderful idea! Perhaps all the responders of this thread should
think a little more about where this is really going. AIS is being
seriously abused by Internet broadcast and other unintended recording of
AIS traffic, as well as environmentalists and governments (the real
pirates). The net result is everyone will have one because of regulations
and no one will turn them on because of the loss of security, risk of
fines, unecessary taxation or other abuses soon to appear. Damn shame.
Steve

"Pascal" wrote in message
oups.com...

This is posted on the IMO page: what are the concerns ans implications?
I have seen many people broadcasting the ships positions on the webb.

Maritime security - AIS ship data

At its79th session in December 2004, the Maritime Safety Committee
(MSC) agreed that, in relation to the issue of freely available
automatic information system (AIS)-generated ship data on the
world-wide web, the publication on the world-wide web or elsewhere of
AIS data transmitted by ships could be detrimental to the safety and
security of ships and port facilities and was undermining the efforts
of the Organization and its Member States to enhance the safety of
navigation and security in the international maritime transport sector.


The Committee condemned the regrettable publication on the world-wide
web, or elsewhere, of AIS data transmitted by ships and urged Member
Governments, subject to the provisions of their national laws, to
discourage those who make available AIS data to others for publication
on the world-wide web, or elsewhere from doing so.

In addition, the Committee condemned those who irresponsibly publish
AIS data transmitted by ships on the world-wide web, or elsewhere,
particularly if they offer services to the shipping and port
industries.

AIS is really only just the beginning. What is to prevent bouyage from
being AIS literate come to think of it we don't need a physical bouy
anymore just an AIS signal with the GPS coordinates of where the bouy
should be.

Now that we have GPS, why are buoys needed anymore? Aren't you really
interested in where the channel is located and not the location of some buoy
that also happens to be trying to show you where the channel is located?
When did buoys become a destinatiion in and of themselves instead of merely
a source of nautical information guiding us around underwater obstructions?

Also could be used for isolated danger marks etc. As these things don't
move the beaconing time would be fairly long. Thus AIS could start to form
the basis of a virtual navaids system. Add a chart background and voila
you have an instanly updated marine chart

This is a great idea and the virtual danger mark would only need be
maintained with AIS until the charts get updated and then each ship will
know where the danger is located just from their GPS map data.

On 2006-03-27 01:46:39 +1100, "Ted" said:


"John Proctor" wrote in message
news:2006032608152075249-lost@nowhereorg...
On 2006-03-26 02:14:00 +1100, "Steve Lusardi" said:

AIS.Wonderful idea! Perhaps all the responders of this thread should
think a little more about where this is really going. AIS is being
seriously abused by Internet broadcast and other unintended recording
of AIS traffic, as well as environmentalists and governments (the real
pirates). The net result is everyone will have one because of
regulations and no one will turn them on because of the loss of
security, risk of fines, unecessary taxation or other abuses soon to
appear. Damn shame.
Steve

"Pascal" wrote in message
oups.com...

This is posted on the IMO page: what are the concerns ans implications?
I have seen many people broadcasting the ships positions on the webb.

Maritime security - AIS ship data

At its79th session in December 2004, the Maritime Safety Committee
(MSC) agreed that, in relation to the issue of freely available
automatic information system (AIS)-generated ship data on the
world-wide web, the publication on the world-wide web or elsewhere of
AIS data transmitted by ships could be detrimental to the safety and
security of ships and port facilities and was undermining the efforts
of the Organization and its Member States to enhance the safety of
navigation and security in the international maritime transport sector.


The Committee condemned the regrettable publication on the world-wide
web, or elsewhere, of AIS data transmitted by ships and urged Member
Governments, subject to the provisions of their national laws, to
discourage those who make available AIS data to others for publication
on the world-wide web, or elsewhere from doing so.

In addition, the Committee condemned those who irresponsibly publish
AIS data transmitted by ships on the world-wide web, or elsewhere,
particularly if they offer services to the shipping and port
industries.

AIS is really only just the beginning. What is to prevent bouyage from
being AIS literate come to think of it we don't need a physical bouy
anymore just an AIS signal with the GPS coordinates of where the bouy
should be.

Now that we have GPS, why are buoys needed anymore? Aren't you really
interested in where the channel is located and not the location of some
buoy that also happens to be trying to show you where the channel is
located? When did buoys become a destinatiion in and of themselves
instead of merely a source of nautical information guiding us around
underwater obstructions?

Also could be used for isolated danger marks etc. As these things don't
move the beaconing time would be fairly long. Thus AIS could start to
form the basis of a virtual navaids system. Add a chart background and
voila you have an instanly updated marine chart

This is a great idea and the virtual danger mark would only need be
maintained with AIS until the charts get updated and then each ship
will know where the danger is located just from their GPS map data.

You missed the point I was trying to develop. All the man made features
of a paper chart can be disseminated via AIS. AIS or its future
development will be the basis of a virtual marine charting system. No
need to maintain physicallity of bouys, danger marks etc. (A brave new
world eh?). Think of how much money could be saved?

After all, I'm not a pilot (aircraft type) but is this not the way
aircraft navigation works? Just thinking out loud.

--
Regards,
John D Proctor

John Proctor wrote:

You missed the point I was trying to develop. All the man made features
of a paper chart can be disseminated via AIS. AIS or its future
development will be the basis of a virtual marine charting system. No
need to maintain physicallity of bouys, danger marks etc. (A brave new
world eh?). Think of how much money could be saved?

After all, I'm not a pilot (aircraft type) but is this not the way
aircraft navigation works? Just thinking out loud.

Actually, you wouldn't even need a boat. You could go everywhere on
your laptop and save a bundle!


Michael Porter Naval Architect / Boatbuilder
mporter at mp-marine dot com
www.mp-marine.com
*** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
*** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***

"John Proctor" wrote in message
news:2006032707325016807-lost@nowhereorg...
On 2006-03-27 01:46:39 +1100, "Ted" said:


"John Proctor" wrote in message
news:2006032608152075249-lost@nowhereorg...
On 2006-03-26 02:14:00 +1100, "Steve Lusardi"
said:

AIS.Wonderful idea! Perhaps all the responders of this thread should
think a little more about where this is really going. AIS is being
seriously abused by Internet broadcast and other unintended recording
of AIS traffic, as well as environmentalists and governments (the real
pirates). The net result is everyone will have one because of
regulations and no one will turn them on because of the loss of
security, risk of fines, unecessary taxation or other abuses soon to
appear. Damn shame.
Steve

"Pascal" wrote in message
oups.com...

This is posted on the IMO page: what are the concerns ans
implications?
I have seen many people broadcasting the ships positions on the webb.

Maritime security - AIS ship data

At its79th session in December 2004, the Maritime Safety Committee
(MSC) agreed that, in relation to the issue of freely available
automatic information system (AIS)-generated ship data on the
world-wide web, the publication on the world-wide web or elsewhere of
AIS data transmitted by ships could be detrimental to the safety and
security of ships and port facilities and was undermining the efforts
of the Organization and its Member States to enhance the safety of
navigation and security in the international maritime transport
sector.


The Committee condemned the regrettable publication on the world-wide
web, or elsewhere, of AIS data transmitted by ships and urged Member
Governments, subject to the provisions of their national laws, to
discourage those who make available AIS data to others for publication
on the world-wide web, or elsewhere from doing so.

In addition, the Committee condemned those who irresponsibly publish
AIS data transmitted by ships on the world-wide web, or elsewhere,
particularly if they offer services to the shipping and port
industries.

AIS is really only just the beginning. What is to prevent bouyage from
being AIS literate come to think of it we don't need a physical bouy
anymore just an AIS signal with the GPS coordinates of where the bouy
should be.

Now that we have GPS, why are buoys needed anymore? Aren't you really
interested in where the channel is located and not the location of some
buoy that also happens to be trying to show you where the channel is
located? When did buoys become a destinatiion in and of themselves
instead of merely a source of nautical information guiding us around
underwater obstructions?

Also could be used for isolated danger marks etc. As these things don't
move the beaconing time would be fairly long. Thus AIS could start to
form the basis of a virtual navaids system. Add a chart background and
voila you have an instanly updated marine chart

This is a great idea and the virtual danger mark would only need be
maintained with AIS until the charts get updated and then each ship will
know where the danger is located just from their GPS map data.


You missed the point I was trying to develop.

And you seem to be having difficulty comprehending the fact that buoys are
completely irrelevant in a GPS navigation environment.

Another problem you don't seem to understand is that AIS uses a radio
frequency with limited bandwidth. Only a certain number of time domain slots
will fit in that bandwidth thus you can't fill it up with fixed points such
as obstructions and buoys and hazards. That is what a chart is for. AIS is
for moving objects or recently discovered objects that have not yet been
placed on the chart. When GPS charting and AIS technology becomes mature the
mariner won't even have to update his charts. It will happen automatically
whenever he pilots his craft within range of a wireless coastguard internet
hot spot where his GPS navigation device automatically collects the updates.

All the man made features of a paper chart can be disseminated via AIS.
AIS or its future development will be the basis of a virtual marine
charting system. No need to maintain physicallity of bouys, danger marks
etc.

There is no need to even have a virtual buoy. You want to know where the
edge of the channel is located not the location of some buoy that may or may
not be in the correct location. When the GPS chart becomes the universal
standard then all the buoys can be removed from the water and the charts
they are simply no longer required.

(A brave new world eh?). Think of how much money could be saved?

Electronic charts will save as much money.



After all, I'm not a pilot (aircraft type) but is this not the way
aircraft navigation works? Just thinking out loud.

Actually there are a lot of pilots who are using GPS to fly from one VOR
ground station to the next when it is completely unnecessary. They should
just fly direct to the destination they want while avoiding any prohibited
or hazardous airspace.



--
Regards,
John D Proctor

Ted wrote:

snip
Now that we have GPS, why are buoys needed anymore? Aren't you really
interested in where the channel is located and not the location of some buoy
that also happens to be trying to show you where the channel is located?
When did buoys become a destinatiion in and of themselves instead of merely
a source of nautical information guiding us around underwater obstructions?

Ted,

Let me ask, have you ever actually spent any time doing coastal
navigation? And if so, what navigation resources were available to you
and which ones did you use?

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

"Jack Erbes" wrote in message
...
Ted wrote:

snip
Now that we have GPS, why are buoys needed anymore? Aren't you really
interested in where the channel is located and not the location of some
buoy that also happens to be trying to show you where the channel is
located? When did buoys become a destination in and of themselves instead
of merely a source of nautical information guiding us around underwater
obstructions?

Ted,

Let me ask, have you ever actually spent any time doing coastal
navigation? And if so, what navigation resources were available to you
and which ones did you use?

I used pilotage until GPS came along - a map and compass and dead reckoning
with an occasional reference to a landmark on shore confirmed my position. I
use range lights and my depth sounder to verify my location in the channel.

See figure 13-10 on the following link.

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-o/cgaux/Pub...tcrew/ch13.pdf

I have a directional antenna to track the Coast Guard's medium frequency
radiobeacons but have never needed to use it - never got lost.

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/ftp/RADIONAV/rbeacon.txt

One can also track AM radio broadcast stations with this device if needed.

When offshore, if you are able to remember which ocean you are in, then its
not very difficult to know what direction on the compass land can be found.
I measure distance in gallons of fuel. While heading offshore, when one
third of my fuel supply is exhausted then I'm as far out to sea as is
allowed by the skipper (me). After GPS, my map and compass stay in my
emergency kit. They haven't seen the light of day in years. I have only lost
the GPS signal in two places on earth - north of the royal observatory in
Greenwich England and in the harbor west of Naples Italy.

Years ago, before GPS, a friend of mine returning from sea had an unexpected
magnetic source on his boat that affected his compass and took him fifty
miles off course. This "compass failure" almost ran him out of fuel before
he reached shore. I don't put much faith in the cry of the geezers about the
undisputed reliability of the simple magnetic compass and the paper map. I
don't believe that most of them even go boating. They just sit on the
internet and run their mouth.