In article , chuck
wrote:

We probably need a more carefully worded statement of just
what type acceptance means in this regard (VFOs). Or are you
suggesting that "open" versions of the type-accepted marine
radios are no longer type-accepted?

Regards,

Chuck

Yes I am stating that as a "Fact", that "opened" versions of "Type
Accepted" Radios are not still Type Accepted. The owner, or operator,
is not allowed to change ANY Major Operational Charactoristic of
a "Type Accepted" radio and still have a "Valid Claim" of Type
Acceptance. This is so stated in the FCC's Rules that detail
what is allowed and what spec's are required to meet "Type Acceptance"
by the FCC Chief Engineer, and his Lab. Just doing the required testing
of a radio, takes a couple of months, for MF/HF SSB Radios, and that
doesn't include any Modifications required to get the radio into
compliance. Been there, Done that, and it AIN't EASY........


Bruce in alaska who has worked BOTH sides of this issue......
--
add a 2 before @

Hello Bruce,

Don't mean to be picking but I'd like to be very clear on
this. Are you saying that all of the owners of "open" Icom
"type accepted" radios who operate these radios on marine
frequencies are operating illegally because the radios are
"open"? Are you certain that the type acceptance does not
include an open version? Is the SGC 2000 being sold in
violation of the law then?

Appreciate the info, Bruce.

Regards,

Chuck


Bruce in Alaska wrote:
In article , chuck
wrote:


We probably need a more carefully worded statement of just
what type acceptance means in this regard (VFOs). Or are you
suggesting that "open" versions of the type-accepted marine
radios are no longer type-accepted?

Regards,

Chuck


Yes I am stating that as a "Fact", that "opened" versions of "Type
Accepted" Radios are not still Type Accepted. The owner, or operator,
is not allowed to change ANY Major Operational Charactoristic of
a "Type Accepted" radio and still have a "Valid Claim" of Type
Acceptance. This is so stated in the FCC's Rules that detail
what is allowed and what spec's are required to meet "Type Acceptance"
by the FCC Chief Engineer, and his Lab. Just doing the required testing
of a radio, takes a couple of months, for MF/HF SSB Radios, and that
doesn't include any Modifications required to get the radio into
compliance. Been there, Done that, and it AIN't EASY........


Bruce in alaska who has worked BOTH sides of this issue......

Hello again Bruce,

Just a quick clarification of my post of a minute ago. It is
Icom who sells these open radios for use on marine
frequencies. If they are not type accepted, is Icom in
violation of FCC rules?

Thanks.

Chuck

chuck wrote:
Hello Bruce,

Don't mean to be picking but I'd like to be very clear on this. Are you
saying that all of the owners of "open" Icom "type accepted" radios who
operate these radios on marine frequencies are operating illegally
because the radios are "open"? Are you certain that the type acceptance
does not include an open version? Is the SGC 2000 being sold in
violation of the law then?

Appreciate the info, Bruce.

Regards,

Chuck


Bruce in Alaska wrote:

In article , chuck
wrote:


We probably need a more carefully worded statement of just what type
acceptance means in this regard (VFOs). Or are you suggesting that
"open" versions of the type-accepted marine radios are no longer
type-accepted?

Regards,

Chuck



Yes I am stating that as a "Fact", that "opened" versions of "Type
Accepted" Radios are not still Type Accepted. The owner, or operator,
is not allowed to change ANY Major Operational Charactoristic of
a "Type Accepted" radio and still have a "Valid Claim" of Type
Acceptance. This is so stated in the FCC's Rules that detail
what is allowed and what spec's are required to meet "Type Acceptance"
by the FCC Chief Engineer, and his Lab. Just doing the required
testing of a radio, takes a couple of months, for MF/HF SSB Radios,
and that doesn't include any Modifications required to get the radio
into compliance. Been there, Done that, and it AIN't EASY........


Bruce in alaska who has worked BOTH sides of this issue......

It is interesting that the SG-2000 is type accepted and is "open"
yet an "open" ICOM is not. I don't really believe this is true.

Doug, k3qt
s/v CAllista

"chuck" wrote in message
...
Hello Bruce,

Don't mean to be picking but I'd like to be very clear on this. Are you
saying that all of the owners of "open" Icom "type accepted" radios who
operate these radios on marine frequencies are operating illegally because
the radios are "open"? Are you certain that the type acceptance does not
include an open version? Is the SGC 2000 being sold in violation of the
law then?

Appreciate the info, Bruce.

Regards,

Chuck


Bruce in Alaska wrote:
In article , chuck
wrote:


We probably need a more carefully worded statement of just what type
acceptance means in this regard (VFOs). Or are you suggesting that "open"
versions of the type-accepted marine radios are no longer type-accepted?

Regards,

Chuck


Yes I am stating that as a "Fact", that "opened" versions of "Type
Accepted" Radios are not still Type Accepted. The owner, or operator, is
not allowed to change ANY Major Operational Charactoristic of
a "Type Accepted" radio and still have a "Valid Claim" of Type
Acceptance. This is so stated in the FCC's Rules that detail
what is allowed and what spec's are required to meet "Type Acceptance"
by the FCC Chief Engineer, and his Lab. Just doing the required testing
of a radio, takes a couple of months, for MF/HF SSB Radios, and that
doesn't include any Modifications required to get the radio into
compliance. Been there, Done that, and it AIN't EASY........


Bruce in alaska who has worked BOTH sides of this issue......

Doug,
The Icom M710 (since 2002) and the M802 both have the ham bands as
standard.
krj

Doug Dotson wrote:

It is interesting that the SG-2000 is type accepted and is "open"
yet an "open" ICOM is not. I don't really believe this is true.

Doug, k3qt
s/v CAllista

"chuck" wrote in message
...

Hello Bruce,

Don't mean to be picking but I'd like to be very clear on this. Are you
saying that all of the owners of "open" Icom "type accepted" radios who
operate these radios on marine frequencies are operating illegally because
the radios are "open"? Are you certain that the type acceptance does not
include an open version? Is the SGC 2000 being sold in violation of the
law then?

Appreciate the info, Bruce.

Regards,

Chuck


Bruce in Alaska wrote:

In article , chuck
wrote:



We probably need a more carefully worded statement of just what type
acceptance means in this regard (VFOs). Or are you suggesting that "open"
versions of the type-accepted marine radios are no longer type-accepted?

Regards,

Chuck


Yes I am stating that as a "Fact", that "opened" versions of "Type
Accepted" Radios are not still Type Accepted. The owner, or operator, is
not allowed to change ANY Major Operational Charactoristic of
a "Type Accepted" radio and still have a "Valid Claim" of Type
Acceptance. This is so stated in the FCC's Rules that detail
what is allowed and what spec's are required to meet "Type Acceptance"
by the FCC Chief Engineer, and his Lab. Just doing the required testing
of a radio, takes a couple of months, for MF/HF SSB Radios, and that
doesn't include any Modifications required to get the radio into
compliance. Been there, Done that, and it AIN't EASY........


Bruce in alaska who has worked BOTH sides of this issue......

In the case of ICOM, I suspect that was a marketing move and a
good one. Paying an extra $200 for the ham enabled version was
silly, especially since the method of enabling the ham bands was just
a simple software upload. The cloning cable was simple to make and
the required software became generally available for nothing.

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

"krj" wrote in message
...
Doug,
The Icom M710 (since 2002) and the M802 both have the ham bands as
standard.
krj

Doug Dotson wrote:

It is interesting that the SG-2000 is type accepted and is "open"
yet an "open" ICOM is not. I don't really believe this is true.

Doug, k3qt
s/v CAllista

"chuck" wrote in message
...

Hello Bruce,

Don't mean to be picking but I'd like to be very clear on this. Are you
saying that all of the owners of "open" Icom "type accepted" radios who
operate these radios on marine frequencies are operating illegally
because the radios are "open"? Are you certain that the type acceptance
does not include an open version? Is the SGC 2000 being sold in violation
of the law then?

Appreciate the info, Bruce.

Regards,

Chuck


Bruce in Alaska wrote:

In article , chuck
wrote:



We probably need a more carefully worded statement of just what type
acceptance means in this regard (VFOs). Or are you suggesting that
"open" versions of the type-accepted marine radios are no longer
type-accepted?

Regards,

Chuck


Yes I am stating that as a "Fact", that "opened" versions of "Type
Accepted" Radios are not still Type Accepted. The owner, or operator,
is not allowed to change ANY Major Operational Charactoristic of
a "Type Accepted" radio and still have a "Valid Claim" of Type
Acceptance. This is so stated in the FCC's Rules that detail
what is allowed and what spec's are required to meet "Type Acceptance"
by the FCC Chief Engineer, and his Lab. Just doing the required testing
of a radio, takes a couple of months, for MF/HF SSB Radios, and that
doesn't include any Modifications required to get the radio into
compliance. Been there, Done that, and it AIN't EASY........


Bruce in alaska who has worked BOTH sides of this issue......

But it is type accepted for both marine and ham.
krj

Doug Dotson wrote:

In the case of ICOM, I suspect that was a marketing move and a
good one. Paying an extra $200 for the ham enabled version was
silly, especially since the method of enabling the ham bands was just
a simple software upload. The cloning cable was simple to make and
the required software became generally available for nothing.

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

"krj" wrote in message
...

Doug,
The Icom M710 (since 2002) and the M802 both have the ham bands as
standard.
krj

Doug Dotson wrote:


It is interesting that the SG-2000 is type accepted and is "open"
yet an "open" ICOM is not. I don't really believe this is true.

Doug, k3qt
s/v CAllista

"chuck" wrote in message
...


Hello Bruce,

Don't mean to be picking but I'd like to be very clear on this. Are you
saying that all of the owners of "open" Icom "type accepted" radios who
operate these radios on marine frequencies are operating illegally
because the radios are "open"? Are you certain that the type acceptance
does not include an open version? Is the SGC 2000 being sold in violation
of the law then?

Appreciate the info, Bruce.

Regards,

Chuck


Bruce in Alaska wrote:


In article , chuck
wrote:




We probably need a more carefully worded statement of just what type
acceptance means in this regard (VFOs). Or are you suggesting that
"open" versions of the type-accepted marine radios are no longer
type-accepted?

Regards,

Chuck


Yes I am stating that as a "Fact", that "opened" versions of "Type
Accepted" Radios are not still Type Accepted. The owner, or operator,
is not allowed to change ANY Major Operational Charactoristic of
a "Type Accepted" radio and still have a "Valid Claim" of Type
Acceptance. This is so stated in the FCC's Rules that detail
what is allowed and what spec's are required to meet "Type Acceptance"
by the FCC Chief Engineer, and his Lab. Just doing the required testing
of a radio, takes a couple of months, for MF/HF SSB Radios, and that
doesn't include any Modifications required to get the radio into
compliance. Been there, Done that, and it AIN't EASY........


Bruce in alaska who has worked BOTH sides of this issue......

In article ,
krj wrote:

But it is type accepted for both marine and ham.
krj

Ham Radios are NOT Type Accepted. They just need to be in compliance
with 47CFRPart 15, like all other RF Radiation Sources. That is to say
Ham Radios, but Ham Radio Amplifiers in the MF/HF Range MUST be Type
Accepted to be sold in the USA.


Bruce in Alaska
--
add a 2 before @

In article ,
"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote:

It is interesting that the SG-2000 is type accepted and is "open"
yet an "open" ICOM is not. I don't really believe this is true.

Doug, k3qt
s/v CAllista

"chuck" wrote in message
...
Hello Bruce,

Don't mean to be picking but I'd like to be very clear on this. Are you
saying that all of the owners of "open" Icom "type accepted" radios who
operate these radios on marine frequencies are operating illegally because
the radios are "open"? Are you certain that the type acceptance does not
include an open version? Is the SGC 2000 being sold in violation of the
law then?

Appreciate the info, Bruce.

Regards,

Chuck


Bruce in Alaska wrote:
In article , chuck
wrote:


We probably need a more carefully worded statement of just what type
acceptance means in this regard (VFOs). Or are you suggesting that "open"
versions of the type-accepted marine radios are no longer type-accepted?

Regards,

Chuck


Yes I am stating that as a "Fact", that "opened" versions of "Type
Accepted" Radios are not still Type Accepted. The owner, or operator, is
not allowed to change ANY Major Operational Charactoristic of
a "Type Accepted" radio and still have a "Valid Claim" of Type
Acceptance. This is so stated in the FCC's Rules that detail
what is allowed and what spec's are required to meet "Type Acceptance"
by the FCC Chief Engineer, and his Lab. Just doing the required testing
of a radio, takes a couple of months, for MF/HF SSB Radios, and that
doesn't include any Modifications required to get the radio into
compliance. Been there, Done that, and it AIN't EASY........


Bruce in alaska who has worked BOTH sides of this issue......



You can believe anything that you want, but the facts are against you.

Me

In article , chuck
wrote:

Hello Bruce,

Don't mean to be picking but I'd like to be very clear on
this. Are you saying that all of the owners of "open" Icom
"type accepted" radios who operate these radios on marine
frequencies are operating illegally because the radios are
"open"? Are you certain that the type acceptance does not
include an open version? Is the SGC 2000 being sold in
violation of the law then?

Appreciate the info, Bruce.

Regards,

Chuck


Bruce in Alaska wrote:
In article , chuck
wrote:


We probably need a more carefully worded statement of just
what type acceptance means in this regard (VFOs). Or are you
suggesting that "open" versions of the type-accepted marine
radios are no longer type-accepted?

Regards,

Chuck


Yes I am stating that as a "Fact", that "opened" versions of "Type
Accepted" Radios are not still Type Accepted. The owner, or operator,
is not allowed to change ANY Major Operational Charactoristic of
a "Type Accepted" radio and still have a "Valid Claim" of Type
Acceptance. This is so stated in the FCC's Rules that detail
what is allowed and what spec's are required to meet "Type Acceptance"
by the FCC Chief Engineer, and his Lab. Just doing the required testing
of a radio, takes a couple of months, for MF/HF SSB Radios, and that
doesn't include any Modifications required to get the radio into
compliance. Been there, Done that, and it AIN't EASY........


Bruce in alaska who has worked BOTH sides of this issue......

Lets make this very clear.

The SGC-2000 IS Type Accepted and therefor can be used legally in both
the Marine and Ham Radio Services, as long as it is UNMODIFIED from the
original factory configuration.

Any other Marine Radio that is Type Accepted can be used in Marine or
Ham Radio Service, as long as it is UNMODIFIED from it's original factory
configuration.

If a Marine Radio that is Type Accepted is then subsequently MODIFIED
by anyone other than the OEM, it is NOT considered Type Accepted any
longer, by the FCC, as it is now MODIFIED, and therefor must go thru
the Type Acceptance Procedure again to qualify for Type Acceptance.

Any MODIFICATION to the radio that changes it's basic configuration
or Operating Charactoristics would invalidate the Type Acceptance for
that radio.

"Opening" a radio is considered such a MODIFACTION, as it requires one
to actually take the covers off and change something mechanically inside
the radio, itself, thus altering the FACTORY OEM Configuration.

There are ways around this Type Acceptace modifacation issue. Mostly
it is thru Undocumented Control Features that are built in to the User
Interface that "open" the radio without any MODIFICATION to it. The SEA
Radios all have a "TEST Mode" that is entered into via a Special Key
Sequence from the front panel. This is allowable, as the Test Mode is
not a MODIFICATION of the radio, but an "Undocumented Feature" as the
radio is still in "FACTORY" OEM condition.

There, NOW that should be VERY Clear for anyone who can read, and
comprehend, the King's English.

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @