it's true! wrote:

snip
The Furuno 1621 states 36w (3amps) for operation and 8w (.6amps)
standby. Not sure what standby is. snip

Standby is with the display on and the scanner powered up, beyond its
normal warmup period, but not rotating or radiating. From standby, the
radar will start rotating, radiating, and reporting contacts nearly
immediately upon activation (button press or timer).

1)
Do either of these have some kind of alarm that will buzz if an
obstruction appears within x distance of my boat? There is something
called watchman mode on the Furuno but no specifics are given.

As you browse brochures and stuff look for a feature called ARPA, MARPA,
or Mini-ARPA (Automatic Radar Plotting Aid). That is the feature that
will track targets and sound an alarm in potentially dangerous
situations. It is an optional extra on some systems.

2)
Is there another dedicated device which will draw less power and be
less complicated that might serve as an alarm for approaching tankers
less than 5 miles away for example? snip

Better than a worried boater? :)

There used to be a simple radar warning receiver on the market for
boaters but I don't remember seeing one of those for sale in recent
years. If your automotive radar detector starts going nuts when it gets
around a marina, maybe that will work.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

I've had a Furuno 1622 for a couple of years and I'm very pleased with it.
An external alarm is an available option.
There are two features that might sound similar, if you've never used radar,
but they are different: Standby and Watchman.
First, in Standby the system is warmed up and ready to go but the antenna is
not radiating a signal or listening for a return. Because the antenna isn't
being used, there's less power used during Standby. Pressing the Transmit
button starts the antenna and power consumption is increased. The advantage
of Standby is that the system's ready to use when you want it.
Second, Watchman reduces power consumption by cycling the antenna off and
on. You set the length of the off period. If the antenna notices a change in
the returns from the previous on cycle, it stops the Watchman function and
continues to stay on. If you have the optional external alarm, it will be
sounded.
A third nice feature is Guard. You drag the cursor on the display from the
top left corner to the bottom right corner of the area you want to be
monitored. If an object enters that area, the optional external alarm will
be sounded to alert you.



"it's true!" wrote in message
...
Ahoy, I'm considering one of two budget radars for my portly 23'
sailboat. I can support it with a 220ah battery setup, one 70w solar
panel and a 12hp diesel. (30 yr old Yanmar, I don't know the amp
output).
The Furuno 1621 states 36w (3amps) for operation and 8w (.6amps)
standby. Not sure what standby is. About $1200usd
Anyone have figures for the JRC MkII? Anyone have real world figures,
experience or best guesses? About $900.
I have some questions as I have never owned a radar.
1)
Do either of these have some kind of alarm that will buzz if an
obstruction appears within x distance of my boat? There is something
called watchman mode on the Furuno but no specifics are given.
2)
Is there another dedicated device which will draw less power and be
less complicated that might serve as an alarm for approaching tankers
less than 5 miles away for example?
I guess my 25 yr old Passport radar detector won't work for this?
I got caught in dense fog last summer so I definitely want the radar
but I'm also interested in a separate device if the radar sucks too
much battery.
Thanks and smooth sailing.

On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 07:42:15 -0800, "wgander" wrote:

A third nice feature is Guard. You drag the cursor on the display from the
top left corner to the bottom right corner of the area you want to be
monitored. If an object enters that area, the optional external alarm will
be sounded to alert you.]

==========================================

Yes, guard zone is the feature you want. You will not find MARPA or
ARPA on a small inexpensive radar. Watch mode in conjunction with
guard zone will reduce your average power draw to well under 1.5 amps.

"it's true!" wrote in message
...
Ahoy, I'm considering one of two budget radars for my portly 23'
sailboat. I can support it with a 220ah battery setup, one 70w solar
panel and a 12hp diesel. (30 yr old Yanmar, I don't know the amp
output).

Probably 35 amps for your alternator.

The Furuno 1621 states 36w (3amps) for operation and 8w (.6amps)
standby. Not sure what standby is. About $1200usd
Anyone have figures for the JRC MkII? Anyone have real world figures,
experience or best guesses? About $900.

According to the JRC website the 1500Mk2 and 1000Mk2 both use 30 watts. I
assume that is during full operation.
They don't mention standby.

I have some questions as I have never owned a radar.
1)
Do either of these have some kind of alarm that will buzz if an
obstruction appears within x distance of my boat? There is something
called watchman mode on the Furuno but no specifics are given.

They should both incorporate an adjustable "guard zone" although the JRC
site does not mention this in the specs.
If an object comes within the distance you have set up for gaurd zone the
radar will sound a buzzer. I think all the diplay units have a built-in
buzzer and you have the option of adding an external speaker.

The "watchman" mode is likely to be a timed off-on mode whereby the unit is
"asleep" most of the time but wakes up at a set interval, scans for a set
time period and then goes back to sleep. During the scan an alarm will
sound if something enters the guard zone. JRC calls this "timed
transmission mode". Saves much power.

2)
Is there another dedicated device which will draw less power and be
less complicated that might serve as an alarm for approaching tankers
less than 5 miles away for example?

There used to be a device called the Card radar detector. It had a
compass-like display on which is showed you where the radar emitting object
was located. It also sounded an alarm when radar was detected. I don't
see it when I do a Google search so it may be out of production. In any
case I think it cost almost as much as one of the radars you are
considering.

I guess my 25 yr old Passport radar detector won't work for this?
I got caught in dense fog last summer so I definitely want the radar
but I'm also interested in a separate device if the radar sucks too
much battery.

I think car type radar detectors are quite directional ? You might have to
do a periodic 360 degree scan to detect ships. Take it down to a port where
ships are coming in with operating radars and see what it does.

Radar would be much more useful though.

Thanks and smooth sailing.

And to you. Try to stay warm in that fog.

"Gordon Wedman" wrote in message
news:qPQLd.91384$Qb.33941@edtnps89...

"it's true!" wrote in message
...
Ahoy, I'm considering one of two budget radars for my portly 23'
sailboat. I can support it with a 220ah battery setup, one 70w solar
panel and a 12hp diesel. (30 yr old Yanmar, I don't know the amp
output).

Probably 35 amps for your alternator.

The Furuno 1621 states 36w (3amps) for operation and 8w (.6amps)
standby. Not sure what standby is. About $1200usd
Anyone have figures for the JRC MkII? Anyone have real world figures,
experience or best guesses? About $900.

According to the JRC website the 1500Mk2 and 1000Mk2 both use 30 watts. I
assume that is during full operation.
They don't mention standby.

I have some questions as I have never owned a radar.
1)
Do either of these have some kind of alarm that will buzz if an
obstruction appears within x distance of my boat? There is something
called watchman mode on the Furuno but no specifics are given.

They should both incorporate an adjustable "guard zone" although the JRC
site does not mention this in the specs.
If an object comes within the distance you have set up for gaurd zone the
radar will sound a buzzer. I think all the diplay units have a built-in
buzzer and you have the option of adding an external speaker.

The "watchman" mode is likely to be a timed off-on mode whereby the unit
is "asleep" most of the time but wakes up at a set interval, scans for a
set time period and then goes back to sleep. During the scan an alarm
will sound if something enters the guard zone. JRC calls this "timed
transmission mode". Saves much power.

2)
Is there another dedicated device which will draw less power and be
less complicated that might serve as an alarm for approaching tankers
less than 5 miles away for example?

There used to be a device called the Card radar detector. It had a
compass-like display on which is showed you where the radar emitting
object was located. It also sounded an alarm when radar was detected. I
don't see it when I do a Google search so it may be out of production. In
any case I think it cost almost as much as one of the radars you are
considering.

I guess my 25 yr old Passport radar detector won't work for this?
I got caught in dense fog last summer so I definitely want the radar
but I'm also interested in a separate device if the radar sucks too
much battery.

I think car type radar detectors are quite directional ? You might have
to do a periodic 360 degree scan to detect ships. Take it down to a port
where ships are coming in with operating radars and see what it does.

Radar would be much more useful though.

Thanks and smooth sailing.

And to you. Try to stay warm in that fog.

I do not normally do this but the CARD Collision Avoidance Radar Detector is
very much still available see link below @ 45mamps on standby it draws next
to nothing.
--
Good Sailing
Mike Seal
Cruising Home Ltd
See us on www.cruisinghome.com

In article o%OLd.8202$bu.2332@fed1read06, "wgander"
wrote:

First, in Standby the system is warmed up and ready to go but the antenna is
not radiating a signal or listening for a return. Because the antenna isn't
being used, there's less power used during Standby. Pressing the Transmit
button starts the antenna and power consumption is increased. The advantage
of Standby is that the system's ready to use when you want it.
Second, Watchman reduces power consumption by cycling the antenna off and
on. You set the length of the off period. If the antenna notices a change in
the returns from the previous on cycle, it stops the Watchman function and
continues to stay on. If you have the optional external alarm, it will be
sounded.

All that is true. The main draw for Standby Mode is keeping the
Magnitron (Transmitter tube) warmed up and ready for instant
operation. This requires about 7 Watts of power for a 2Kw
magnitron, and more as the PPP of the magnitron goes up. If
you can stand a 3 minute delay in using your radar, better to turn it
OFF, than use standby when Power consumtion is an issue.


Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 10:40:34 GMT, it's true! wrote:

Ahoy, I'm considering one of two budget radars for my portly 23'
sailboat. I can support it with a 220ah battery setup, one 70w solar
panel and a 12hp diesel. (30 yr old Yanmar, I don't know the amp
output).
The Furuno 1621 states 36w (3amps) for operation and 8w (.6amps)
standby. Not sure what standby is. About $1200usd
Anyone have figures for the JRC MkII? Anyone have real world figures,
experience or best guesses? About $900.
I have some questions as I have never owned a radar.
1)
Do either of these have some kind of alarm that will buzz if an
obstruction appears within x distance of my boat? There is something
called watchman mode on the Furuno but no specifics are given.
2)
Is there another dedicated device which will draw less power and be
less complicated that might serve as an alarm for approaching tankers
less than 5 miles away for example?
I guess my 25 yr old Passport radar detector won't work for this?
I got caught in dense fog last summer so I definitely want the radar
but I'm also interested in a separate device if the radar sucks too
much battery.
Thanks and smooth sailing.

I have a Furuno 1623 on my sailboat. I have two 100ah batteries and the
only
source of charging is what comes with a 1992 Yamaha 9.9 HP electric start
outboard. That's not much! Your solar panel probably puts out more in the
course
of a week of sailing then my outboard, which I don't use much.

I generally only use the radar when visibility is reduced, such as fog,
rain or
night. The display is not permanently mounted, so this is legal. When not
in
use, I disconnect the display and put it away. The whole notion that you
are
legally required to run radar at all times if you have an operational
system on
board is a bit over-hyped any way. If you are involved in a collision and
were
not using a fully functional radar at the time, it would hurt you in court
as
they determine how much blame to allot to you. Otherwise, it's not like
there
are radar cops out there who will write you up or give you a ticket
because they
boarded your boat and your radar was turned off.

I have my display mounted on a square of starboard plastic, so that I can
set it
on the seat near me, regardless of which side of the boat I'm on, as I
have a
tiller, not a wheel. You need the display to be close to you at all times,
as
there is a fair amount of button pushing that needs to be done from minute
to
minute when actively using the radar. If my boat had wheel steering, it
would
make sense to mount the display permanently at the pedestal. I have seen
folks
mount the display on a swinging articulated arm in the companion way, but
I
can't imagine how they make any use of it that way. It looks clever until
you
try and use it.

When I will be running the radar for extended periods, I sometimes run the
outboard in gear at slightly above idle just to be safe. That seems to be
more
than adequate to keep up with it. I have never had a problem with not
enough
power. I have never had to hook into shore power or otherwise recharge my
batteries during a sailing season from April to November. I am, overall,
pretty
conservative in my electrical use. I use it for VHF, which I monitor, (but
don't
yak on like a dopey CB'er), radar, and various running lights as needed.
When
stopped for the night, I use cabin lights sparingly, preferring an oil
lamp or
candle. I also constantly recharge rotating sets of AA NiMh batteries that
run
my GPS and my camera, and I also charge my cell phone. I do not have
refrigeration or a microwave.

Two things really made me select Furuno over the less expensive JRC. One
was
that I noticed that ALL the commercial boats seem to favor Furuno by a
huge
margin, and the other reason was that the Furuno display was simply
brighter and
better.

Be aware that the mounting system you choose may cost as much as the
radar! I'm
not kidding. If you are a coastal sailor, don't worry about getting your
dome as
high as possible off the water. In close quarters, it's far more
preferable to
have it low, so you can see objects closer to your boat. You don't really
need
to see 16 or 24 miles except maybe when looking for clouds and storms off
in the
distance. They are so high above the water that you'll see them regardless
of
how high your antenna is mounted.

If you have not used radar before, or it's been awhile, make sure to use
it
during good visibility as much as possible so you can compare what is on
the
display to what is out there and relative position to you. There is a
definite
learning curve associated with being able to understand what you are
looking at.
Frequent practice is mandatory, even after you feel you are pretty good at
it.

Also bear in mind that radar is NOT a substitute for maintaining a proper
eyeball and ear watch at all times, regardless of warning systems or
anything
else.

BB

I have seen folks mount the display on a swinging articulated arm in the
companion way, but I
can't imagine how they make any use of it that way. It looks clever until
you
try and use it.

Most folks these days have autopilots. Its simple enough to go forward and
have a look at the radar. I don't think on most occasions you need to study
it as closely as you would a chart and the gaurd zone will tell you if
someone comes close. I actually find it somewhat distracting to have
something at the helm, like my chartplotter, that I can study intently.

On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 17:17:00 GMT, "Gordon Wedman"
wrote:
SNIP]

it.

Also bear in mind that radar is NOT a substitute for maintaining a proper
eyeball and ear watch at all times, regardless of warning systems or
anything else.

BB

I have seen folks mount the display on a swinging articulated arm in the
companion way, but I
can't imagine how they make any use of it that way. It looks clever until
you
try and use it.

I made a similar arrangement for my first radar (Furuno 1720) in 1990.
It didn't swing, but slid on a track from the starboard side. It was a
CRT display, and was not supposed to be exposed to the weather. I
didn't like it at all that way.

I put a plastic bag over the back of it and carried it out to the
helm, where I could strap it on a horizontal board above the binnacle.
The first serious use of it in that arrangement cam when we made
landfall at Matinicus Rock, about 1900 on a September evening.

We saw the rock and the light house momentarily, and a few seals. Then
it socked in, and we couldn't see anything. One of the two ladies
would call from the nav station the bearings to the next rocks and
islands, and a safe course between them.

I really loved the radar up close. With its help I could visualize all
the familiar things that we couldn't see. I told our guest where there
was a great looking island (Isle au Haut) off to stbd. Probably
annoying, since she had never been there before and couldn't see
anything I was talking about.

Never again would I use a radar where I couldn't touch the buttons
from the helm. Eventually the cable plug succumbed to the abuse in
2001, and I replaced with a Raytheon SL70. That is meant to be exposed
and stays mounted at the wheel.



Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a

"Religious wisdom is to wisdom as military music is to music."

Thanks for pointing out the CARD. I wasn't aware of it. Unlike having your
own radar, CARD only tells you if the other guys have radar.


"Mike Seal" wrote in message
...

"Gordon Wedman" wrote in message
news:qPQLd.91384$Qb.33941@edtnps89...

"it's true!" wrote in message
...
Ahoy, I'm considering one of two budget radars for my portly 23'
sailboat. I can support it with a 220ah battery setup, one 70w solar
panel and a 12hp diesel. (30 yr old Yanmar, I don't know the amp
output).

Probably 35 amps for your alternator.

The Furuno 1621 states 36w (3amps) for operation and 8w (.6amps)
standby. Not sure what standby is. About $1200usd
Anyone have figures for the JRC MkII? Anyone have real world figures,
experience or best guesses? About $900.

According to the JRC website the 1500Mk2 and 1000Mk2 both use 30 watts.
I
assume that is during full operation.
They don't mention standby.

I have some questions as I have never owned a radar.
1)
Do either of these have some kind of alarm that will buzz if an
obstruction appears within x distance of my boat? There is something
called watchman mode on the Furuno but no specifics are given.

They should both incorporate an adjustable "guard zone" although the JRC
site does not mention this in the specs.
If an object comes within the distance you have set up for gaurd zone
the
radar will sound a buzzer. I think all the diplay units have a built-in
buzzer and you have the option of adding an external speaker.

The "watchman" mode is likely to be a timed off-on mode whereby the unit
is "asleep" most of the time but wakes up at a set interval, scans for a
set time period and then goes back to sleep. During the scan an alarm
will sound if something enters the guard zone. JRC calls this "timed
transmission mode". Saves much power.

2)
Is there another dedicated device which will draw less power and be
less complicated that might serve as an alarm for approaching tankers
less than 5 miles away for example?

There used to be a device called the Card radar detector. It had a
compass-like display on which is showed you where the radar emitting
object was located. It also sounded an alarm when radar was detected.
I
don't see it when I do a Google search so it may be out of production.
In
any case I think it cost almost as much as one of the radars you are
considering.

I guess my 25 yr old Passport radar detector won't work for this?
I got caught in dense fog last summer so I definitely want the radar
but I'm also interested in a separate device if the radar sucks too
much battery.

I think car type radar detectors are quite directional ? You might have
to do a periodic 360 degree scan to detect ships. Take it down to a
port
where ships are coming in with operating radars and see what it does.

Radar would be much more useful though.

Thanks and smooth sailing.

And to you. Try to stay warm in that fog.

I do not normally do this but the CARD Collision Avoidance Radar Detector
is
very much still available see link below @ 45mamps on standby it draws
next
to nothing.
--
Good Sailing
Mike Seal
Cruising Home Ltd
See us on www.cruisinghome.com