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On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:42:29 +0200, "Meindert Sprang"
wrote: I think many people don't use Linux on their boat *because* there is no decent nav package. ============================================= And because it's a whole new learning curve to climb, not the most user friendly system in the world, and there's not much help available in the world outside of technology shops. All that, plus the lack of a standardized graphical user interface, means that its going to be a while before Linux shows up on our laptops. It may show up embedded in dedicated hardware however where we can't see it. |
Normally I would not get into the middle of a thread such as this, but
I feel the need to set something straight: I am not . He is a satisfied customer of ours, just as he says. In fact, we have never met and we live on opposite ends of the country. If you were to google his name you would find that he's contributed quite a bit to the Internet's boating communities. I will not attempt to correct the rest of the misinformation in this thread as I'm confident that time will take care of that... Thanks for listening, Brad Christian Rose Point Navigation Systems, LLC http://rosepointnav.com/ |
You got to be kidding me!!
Remove NOJUNK from Email for responses via email. |
On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:09:57 GMT, "BillP" wrote:
Triggered by the above remark I wonder why no company has yet written a decent navigation package running on Linux. Because once they made three sales to people who actually use Linux on their boat, they'd have 100% of the potential market... Make it four. I would gladly drop WIndows on any machine that didn't need it for a particular app. Mandrake Linux is the slickest and most troublefree installation I have ever tried. You don't have to be a geek to install it. Indeed it practically installs itself. So, for a boat computer, what do I need. A word processor for the log--Xemacs is fine A program to monitor the serial ports and log NMEA inputs and time-stamp them into a text file, that can be pasted into the log on xemacs. A nav-chart program that uses free vector charts. If I take it ashore to a modem connection, I use Windoze because I can run PMMail, a converted OS2 program that lets me check headeers on the POP3 server, and delete spam before I download messages. I haven't seen a linux app that works that way. All easy except the last two. I have no financial interest, etc etc. Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC We have achieved faith-based science, faith-based economics, faith-based law enforcement, and faith-based missile defense. What's next? Faith-based air traffic control? |
Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:42:29 +0200, "Meindert Sprang" wrote: I think many people don't use Linux on their boat *because* there is no decent nav package. ============================================= And because it's a whole new learning curve to climb, not the most user friendly system in the world, and there's not much help available in the world outside of technology shops. All that, plus the lack of a standardized graphical user interface, means that its going to be a while before Linux shows up on our laptops. It may show up embedded in dedicated hardware however where we can't see it. I have to agree with you here. Although Linux certainly has critical mass on the server market, with a desktop penetration of about 1%, this is not viable as a consumer product. Perhaps if there is sufficient interest a bunch of us could develop our own opensource chartplotter software. |
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
... On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:42:29 +0200, "Meindert Sprang" And because it's a whole new learning curve to climb, not the most user friendly system in the world Mmm... ever tried to install the lates SuSE? Almost like windows... and there's not much help available in the world outside of technology shops. This is really amusing. Have you ever tried to get help for a windows related problem? Most computers are sold with XP OEM, where the dealer is supposed to support you. Most dealers only have the knowledge to tell you how to reinstall in case of a "dark" problem. Call microsoft and you have to draw your plastic first. Now in case of Linux, your just post your question in a linux related newsgroup and within the hour you have a dozen suggestions how to solve your problem. For free! All that, plus the lack of a standardized graphical user interface, means that its going to be a while before Linux shows up on our laptops. For eons, long before the conception of a windows-like thing on a PC there was X-windows for unix. And it's still there. Standard. The only thing that varies amongst installations is the window manager, responsible for the look and feel. But every linux distribution comes with the same set of window managers, of which KDE seems to be the most popular and the most windows-loolalike. How do you mean, there's no standard? Meindert |
In article ,
Lisa Collins wrote: Wayne.B wrote: On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:42:29 +0200, "Meindert Sprang" wrote: I think many people don't use Linux on their boat *because* there is no decent nav package. ============================================= And because it's a whole new learning curve to climb, not the most user friendly system in the world, and there's not much help available in the world outside of technology shops. All that, plus the lack of a standardized graphical user interface, means that its going to be a while before Linux shows up on our laptops. It may show up embedded in dedicated hardware however where we can't see it. I have to agree with you here. Although Linux certainly has critical mass on the server market, with a desktop penetration of about 1%, this is not viable as a consumer product. Perhaps if there is sufficient interest a bunch of us could develop our own opensource chartplotter software. i note that HP is now shipping a laptop with SuSE 9.x INSTALLED FROM THE FACTORY so you don't have to wait for it to "turn up on your laptop" -mo |
On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 21:26:40 +0200, "Meindert Sprang"
wrote: "Wayne.B" wrote in message .. . I agree with everything you said. Still, some minor quibbles. On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:42:29 +0200, "Meindert Sprang" And because it's a whole new learning curve to climb, not the most user friendly system in the world Mmm... ever tried to install the lates SuSE? Almost like windows... But it's not Windows, is it? What is the compelling reason to change? Other than frustration with Microsoft, which I share, but is not a big issue for most people. New mail client, new browser, new newsreader, new imaging software for your digicam, new word processor. Somewhat better ones, in some cases, but not compellingly better. and there's not much help available in the world outside of technology shops. This is really amusing. Have you ever tried to get help for a windows related problem? Most computers are sold with XP OEM, where the dealer is supposed to support you. Most dealers only have the knowledge to tell you how to reinstall in case of a "dark" problem. Call microsoft and you have to draw your plastic first. Yup. So you go to a windows related newsgroup and either get a fix or learn you have to live with it. Not particularly comforting, but at least it's unambiguous. More on this later. Now in case of Linux, your just post your question in a linux related newsgroup and within the hour you have a dozen suggestions how to solve your problem. For free! Hehe, I was a UNIX internals guy (mostly SVID4) back in the 80s. The saying then was that if you had a problem you needed to solve on your UNIX system and couldn't think of a dozen *different* ways to solve it, you didn't really know UNIX. I believed it then and it sounds as if it is true still. The problem is, this will not be perceived as a benefit by the average user. It is a fine example of ambiguity, and most people aren't comfortable with ambiguity. Also, of those dozen fixes, how many will be things that the ordinary user is comfortable doing? Finally, and I know this sounds insane, most computer users I know don't read or even know about newsgroups. All that, plus the lack of a standardized graphical user interface, means that its going to be a while before Linux shows up on our laptops. For eons, long before the conception of a windows-like thing on a PC there was X-windows for unix. And it's still there. Standard. The only thing that varies amongst installations is the window manager, responsible for the look and feel. But every linux distribution comes with the same set of window managers, of which KDE seems to be the most popular and the most windows-loolalike. How do you mean, there's no standard? All true. Windows GUI is a pretty clunky interface and it's not hard to beat or equal. I have more of an issue with the design and usability variations of individual utilities and programs. This is fast gaining attention in the open source community as a crfitical issue. Meindert I want a viable alternative (linux would do) for Windows as much as the next guy. Competition is a Goode Thing. For servers, we have one. For corporate desktop users, we are very close, if only because there is the ability to mandate the users' standard platform. For Joe Homeuser, not close at all, because there is no compelling reason to change. When we start to get significant trickle-down of corporate users opting for a linux system at home to match their office systems, then we start to make headway. All in my ever so humble opinion, of course. Glen PS Where are the Mac users in this thread? They should be foaming at the mouth by now... __________________________________________________ __________ Glen "Wiley" Wilson usenet1 SPAMNIX at worldwidewiley dot com To reply, lose the capitals and do the obvious. Take a look at cpRepeater, my NMEA data integrator, repeater, and logger at http://www.worldwidewiley.com/ |
"Glen "Wiley" Wilson" wrote in
message ... PS Where are the Mac users in this thread? They should be foaming at the mouth by now... Why? OS X is just a slick interface on top of a rewritten unix (BSD, I believe). So they are already the happiest people in the world ;-) And on top of that, there is already decent nav software available for the Mac. Meindert |
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