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anchorlt August 26th 04 08:43 PM

New Nav Software
 
If you have any interest in what strikes me as a simple, complete and
truly user friendly nav software, you may want to investigate
http://rosepointnav.com/default.htm

I am not an employee, investor or anything like anything that would
associate me with the company. My interest is only in finding what
works, is simple to use and does it reliably.

Jack Erbes August 26th 04 09:24 PM

anchorlt wrote:

If you have any interest in what strikes me as a simple, complete and
truly user friendly nav software, you may want to investigate
http://rosepointnav.com/default.htm

I am not an employee, investor or anything like anything that would
associate me with the company. My interest is only in finding what
works, is simple to use and does it reliably.


There is a minimal description there, no page views, or real specifics.
Have you actually tried this software out? Or maybe we could just
cough up $300 and find out for you? :)

Jack (speaking in jest but also curious about the new program).

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jacker at midmaine dot com

Meindert Sprang August 26th 04 09:33 PM

"anchorlt" wrote in message
om...
If you have any interest in what strikes me as a simple, complete and
truly user friendly nav software, you may want to investigate
http://rosepointnav.com/default.htm


Mmmm.... that's the second time this week that it struck you.....

I am not an employee, investor or anything like anything that would
associate me with the company. My interest is only in finding what
works, is simple to use and does it reliably.


I wonder....

Meindert



NIFFOCBT August 26th 04 10:03 PM

Strikes me too, having never seen it in the Boat Shows being sold next to
Maptech, Transas, and Nobeltec. Never heard of it. Are there free samples for
us Marine elec. Techs to give you the REAL SCOOP, Or do I need to spend $300.

Brian
Remove NOJUNK from Email for responses via email.

Keith August 26th 04 10:05 PM

I haven't tried it personally, but the folks I know who have love it!

--


Keith
__
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning,
that's as good as they're going to feel all day."--Dean Martin
"Jack Erbes" wrote in message
...
anchorlt wrote:

If you have any interest in what strikes me as a simple, complete and
truly user friendly nav software, you may want to investigate
http://rosepointnav.com/default.htm

I am not an employee, investor or anything like anything that would
associate me with the company. My interest is only in finding what
works, is simple to use and does it reliably.


There is a minimal description there, no page views, or real specifics.
Have you actually tried this software out? Or maybe we could just cough
up $300 and find out for you? :)

Jack (speaking in jest but also curious about the new program).

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jacker at midmaine dot com




BillP August 27th 04 03:29 AM

anchorIt?

Oh come on Brad. You can come up with something more anonymous than that.
Do you think this type of cheap advertising is how you'll build your
company? No one is fooled by this type of thing any longer...


"anchorlt" wrote in message
om...
If you have any interest in what strikes me as a simple, complete and
truly user friendly nav software, you may want to investigate
http://rosepointnav.com/default.htm

I am not an employee, investor or anything like anything that would
associate me with the company. My interest is only in finding what
works, is simple to use and does it reliably.




NIFFOCBT August 27th 04 04:43 AM

Can you integrate several Sensors?. Can it take into account advance and
transfer using ROT? Can you overlay a radar image on it? Can you incorporate
ARPA targets? Can it display a vessel in heads up or north up mode? How many
AIS targets and how much info will it provide?

How useful is it? Every chart plotter out there can take a gps input and plop
you on a chart. Its the periphials(Spelling?) that sell the software. The
more info available to the skipper makes them more capable to make a informed
decision when it counts. What are you comparing this software to? It really
looks to me like it is very basic in its design. Send it to me and I will tell
you what is really needed in it?

I don't design software. I install it for ships and yachts. I am the one
they call in the middle of the night when the @*?/ is hitting the fan. I have
seen a lot of great concept software, but when push came to shove the support
wasn't there and reliability was horrible. The web site says no phone support.
Only email support. I don't know many captains jumping on their email when
they can't view thier chart plotter. There are only 2 companies out there now,
that I have seen stand behind there product and really make it work (Names to
follow if asked).

Sorry for the rant guys but this stuff is a very important decision an owner/
captain has to make. The type of plotter they use can sink and swim someone if
it is not done right. If a plotter is not set up correctly or fails at a
crucial moment then whats the use. You dont use a plotter on a nice sunny
day. You use it when you are lost, tired, or in bad weather.

Just a few of my thoughts Take them or leave them.

Brian
Remove NOJUNK from Email for responses via email.

Meindert Sprang August 27th 04 07:31 AM

"NIFFOCBT" wrote in message
...
Can you integrate several Sensors?.


Of course he can; with our multiplexers :-)

The type of plotter they use can sink and swim someone if
it is not done right. If a plotter is not set up correctly or fails at a
crucial moment then whats the use. You dont use a plotter on a nice

sunny
day. You use it when you are lost, tired, or in bad weather.



Triggered by the above remark I wonder why no company has yet written a
decent navigation package running on Linux.
I know this will stir up something, but I have been on a ship, developing
software to control a KVM switch that knitted 12 LCD's and 10 computers
together. All computers were running XP (!) except the one I installed for
controlling the KVM switch. This one ran linux and did the routing to four
selectable internet connections as well. Many of these computers had the
occasional crash, but the only one that kept on running was the Linux box.

Meindert
www.shipmodul.com



BillP August 27th 04 03:09 PM

Triggered by the above remark I wonder why no company has yet written a
decent navigation package running on Linux.


Because once they made three sales to people who actually use Linux on their
boat, they'd have 100% of the potential market...



Meindert Sprang August 27th 04 03:42 PM

"BillP" wrote in message news:VgHXc.9$hq5.0@trndny09...
Triggered by the above remark I wonder why no company has yet written a
decent navigation package running on Linux.


Because once they made three sales to people who actually use Linux on

their
boat, they'd have 100% of the potential market...


I think many people don't use Linux on their boat *because* there is no
decent nav package.

Meindert



Wayne.B August 27th 04 04:01 PM

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:42:29 +0200, "Meindert Sprang"
wrote:

I think many people don't use Linux on their boat *because* there is no
decent nav package.


=============================================

And because it's a whole new learning curve to climb, not the most
user friendly system in the world, and there's not much help
available in the world outside of technology shops. All that, plus
the lack of a standardized graphical user interface, means that its
going to be a while before Linux shows up on our laptops.

It may show up embedded in dedicated hardware however where we can't
see it.


[email protected] August 27th 04 06:10 PM

Normally I would not get into the middle of a thread such as this, but
I feel the need to set something straight:

I am not . He is a satisfied customer of ours,
just as he says. In fact, we have never met and we live on opposite
ends of the country. If you were to google his name you would find
that he's contributed quite a bit to the Internet's boating
communities.

I will not attempt to correct the rest of the misinformation in this
thread as I'm confident that time will take care of that...

Thanks for listening,
Brad Christian
Rose Point Navigation Systems, LLC
http://rosepointnav.com/

NIFFOCBT August 27th 04 06:27 PM

You got to be kidding me!!
Remove NOJUNK from Email for responses via email.

Rodney Myrvaagnes August 27th 04 07:26 PM

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:09:57 GMT, "BillP" wrote:

Triggered by the above remark I wonder why no company has yet written a
decent navigation package running on Linux.


Because once they made three sales to people who actually use Linux on their
boat, they'd have 100% of the potential market...

Make it four. I would gladly drop WIndows on any machine that didn't
need it for a particular app.

Mandrake Linux is the slickest and most troublefree installation I
have ever tried. You don't have to be a geek to install it. Indeed it
practically installs itself.

So, for a boat computer, what do I need.

A word processor for the log--Xemacs is fine

A program to monitor the serial ports and log NMEA inputs and
time-stamp them into a text file, that can be pasted into the log
on xemacs.

A nav-chart program that uses free vector charts.

If I take it ashore to a modem connection, I use Windoze because I
can run PMMail, a converted OS2 program that lets me check headeers
on the POP3 server, and delete spam before I download messages. I
haven't seen a linux app that works that way.

All easy except the last two.



I have no financial interest, etc etc.


Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC


We have achieved faith-based science,
faith-based economics, faith-based law
enforcement, and faith-based missile
defense.
What's next? Faith-based air traffic control?

Rodney Myrvaagnes August 27th 04 08:01 PM

On 27 Aug 2004 10:10:39 -0700, wrote:

Normally I would not get into the middle of a thread such as this, but
I feel the need to set something straight:

I am not
. He is a satisfied customer of ours,
just as he says. In fact, we have never met and we live on opposite
ends of the country. If you were to google his name you would find
that he's contributed quite a bit to the Internet's boating
communities.

I will not attempt to correct the rest of the misinformation in this
thread as I'm confident that time will take care of that...


OK. I am a potential user but I have no info. Have you sent a dist
copy to Practical Sailor?

So far I have seen no information, mis or other. With the best will in
the world, you are not the one to clear up anything. I am sure the
program is intuitive to you if you designed it.

An unsolicited recommendation from someone who sends through an
anonymizer doesn't carry a huge amount of weight, as I am sure you can
see. How could we "google his name" if he hides it?



Thanks for listening,
Brad Christian
Rose Point Navigation Systems, LLC
http://rosepointnav.com/

Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC


We have achieved faith-based science,
faith-based economics, faith-based law
enforcement, and faith-based missile
defense.
What's next? Faith-based air traffic control?

Lisa Collins August 27th 04 08:11 PM

Wayne.B wrote:

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:42:29 +0200, "Meindert Sprang"
wrote:

I think many people don't use Linux on their boat *because* there is no
decent nav package.


=============================================

And because it's a whole new learning curve to climb, not the most
user friendly system in the world, and there's not much help
available in the world outside of technology shops. All that, plus
the lack of a standardized graphical user interface, means that its
going to be a while before Linux shows up on our laptops.

It may show up embedded in dedicated hardware however where we can't
see it.


I have to agree with you here. Although Linux certainly has critical mass
on the server market, with a desktop penetration of about 1%, this is not
viable as a consumer product. Perhaps if there is sufficient interest a
bunch of us could develop our own opensource chartplotter software.



Meindert Sprang August 27th 04 08:26 PM

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:42:29 +0200, "Meindert Sprang"


And because it's a whole new learning curve to climb, not the most
user friendly system in the world


Mmm... ever tried to install the lates SuSE? Almost like windows...

and there's not much help
available in the world outside of technology shops.


This is really amusing. Have you ever tried to get help for a windows
related problem? Most computers are sold with XP OEM, where the dealer is
supposed to support you. Most dealers only have the knowledge to tell you
how to reinstall in case of a "dark" problem. Call microsoft and you have to
draw your plastic first.

Now in case of Linux, your just post your question in a linux related
newsgroup and within the hour you have a dozen suggestions how to solve your
problem. For free!

All that, plus
the lack of a standardized graphical user interface, means that its
going to be a while before Linux shows up on our laptops.


For eons, long before the conception of a windows-like thing on a PC there
was X-windows for unix. And it's still there. Standard. The only thing that
varies amongst installations is the window manager, responsible for the look
and feel. But every linux distribution comes with the same set of window
managers, of which KDE seems to be the most popular and the most
windows-loolalike. How do you mean, there's no standard?

Meindert



Mike O'Dell August 27th 04 09:09 PM

In article ,
Lisa Collins wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:42:29 +0200, "Meindert Sprang"
wrote:

I think many people don't use Linux on their boat *because* there is no
decent nav package.


=============================================

And because it's a whole new learning curve to climb, not the most
user friendly system in the world, and there's not much help
available in the world outside of technology shops. All that, plus
the lack of a standardized graphical user interface, means that its
going to be a while before Linux shows up on our laptops.

It may show up embedded in dedicated hardware however where we can't
see it.


I have to agree with you here. Although Linux certainly has critical mass
on the server market, with a desktop penetration of about 1%, this is not
viable as a consumer product. Perhaps if there is sufficient interest a
bunch of us could develop our own opensource chartplotter software.




i note that HP is now shipping a laptop with SuSE 9.x
INSTALLED FROM THE FACTORY

so you don't have to wait for it to "turn up on your laptop"

-mo

Glen \Wiley\ Wilson August 27th 04 09:38 PM

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 21:26:40 +0200, "Meindert Sprang"
wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
.. .



I agree with everything you said. Still, some minor quibbles.

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:42:29 +0200, "Meindert Sprang"


And because it's a whole new learning curve to climb, not the most
user friendly system in the world


Mmm... ever tried to install the lates SuSE? Almost like windows...


But it's not Windows, is it? What is the compelling reason to change?
Other than frustration with Microsoft, which I share, but is not a big
issue for most people. New mail client, new browser, new newsreader,
new imaging software for your digicam, new word processor. Somewhat
better ones, in some cases, but not compellingly better.

and there's not much help
available in the world outside of technology shops.


This is really amusing. Have you ever tried to get help for a windows
related problem? Most computers are sold with XP OEM, where the dealer is
supposed to support you. Most dealers only have the knowledge to tell you
how to reinstall in case of a "dark" problem. Call microsoft and you have to
draw your plastic first.


Yup. So you go to a windows related newsgroup and either get a fix or
learn you have to live with it. Not particularly comforting, but at
least it's unambiguous. More on this later.

Now in case of Linux, your just post your question in a linux related
newsgroup and within the hour you have a dozen suggestions how to solve your
problem. For free!


Hehe, I was a UNIX internals guy (mostly SVID4) back in the 80s. The
saying then was that if you had a problem you needed to solve on your
UNIX system and couldn't think of a dozen *different* ways to solve
it, you didn't really know UNIX. I believed it then and it sounds as
if it is true still.

The problem is, this will not be perceived as a benefit by the average
user. It is a fine example of ambiguity, and most people aren't
comfortable with ambiguity. Also, of those dozen fixes, how many will
be things that the ordinary user is comfortable doing? Finally, and I
know this sounds insane, most computer users I know don't read or even
know about newsgroups.


All that, plus
the lack of a standardized graphical user interface, means that its
going to be a while before Linux shows up on our laptops.


For eons, long before the conception of a windows-like thing on a PC there
was X-windows for unix. And it's still there. Standard. The only thing that
varies amongst installations is the window manager, responsible for the look
and feel. But every linux distribution comes with the same set of window
managers, of which KDE seems to be the most popular and the most
windows-loolalike. How do you mean, there's no standard?


All true. Windows GUI is a pretty clunky interface and it's not hard
to beat or equal. I have more of an issue with the design and
usability variations of individual utilities and programs. This is
fast gaining attention in the open source community as a crfitical
issue.

Meindert

I want a viable alternative (linux would do) for Windows as much as
the next guy. Competition is a Goode Thing. For servers, we have one.
For corporate desktop users, we are very close, if only because there
is the ability to mandate the users' standard platform. For Joe
Homeuser, not close at all, because there is no compelling reason to
change. When we start to get significant trickle-down of corporate
users opting for a linux system at home to match their office systems,
then we start to make headway. All in my ever so humble opinion, of
course.

Glen

PS Where are the Mac users in this thread? They should be foaming at
the mouth by now...
__________________________________________________ __________
Glen "Wiley" Wilson usenet1 SPAMNIX at worldwidewiley dot com
To reply, lose the capitals and do the obvious.

Take a look at cpRepeater, my NMEA data integrator, repeater, and
logger at http://www.worldwidewiley.com/

Meindert Sprang August 27th 04 09:54 PM

"Glen "Wiley" Wilson" wrote in
message ...
PS Where are the Mac users in this thread? They should be foaming at
the mouth by now...


Why? OS X is just a slick interface on top of a rewritten unix (BSD, I
believe). So they are already the happiest people in the world ;-) And on
top of that, there is already decent nav software available for the Mac.

Meindert




Glen \Wiley\ Wilson August 27th 04 11:07 PM

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 22:54:55 +0200, "Meindert Sprang"
wrote:

"Glen "Wiley" Wilson" wrote in
message ...
PS Where are the Mac users in this thread? They should be foaming at
the mouth by now...


Why? OS X is just a slick interface on top of a rewritten unix (BSD, I
believe). So they are already the happiest people in the world ;-) And on
top of that, there is already decent nav software available for the Mac.

Meindert


Well, if I didn't get them started you just did. :-) It's not about
the technology, *It's About The Vision!*
__________________________________________________ __________
Glen "Wiley" Wilson usenet1 SPAMNIX at worldwidewiley dot com
To reply, lose the capitals and do the obvious.

Take a look at cpRepeater, my NMEA data integrator, repeater, and
logger at http://www.worldwidewiley.com/

Meindert Sprang August 27th 04 11:12 PM

"Glen "Wiley" Wilson" wrote in
message ...
Well, if I didn't get them started you just did. :-) It's not about
the technology, *It's About The Vision!*


Wow, do I hear Bill Gates talking ? :-))

Meindert



Glen \Wiley\ Wilson August 27th 04 11:48 PM

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 00:12:34 +0200, "Meindert Sprang"
wrote:

Wow, do I hear Bill Gates talking ? :-))

Meindert


Now *that's* funny. What is it the lawyers say? Something like "When
the facts are against you, argue the law. When the law is against
you, argue the facts. When the law and the facts are against you,
shout, and pound on the table."

There should be a marketing version: "When you're behind on
technology, talk about your vision. When you lack vision, trot out
the speeds and feeds. When you lack technology and nobody buys into
your vision, sue."

Glen

The above is copyright 2004 Glen Wilson and is released to the public
under the terms of the GNU Public License.
__________________________________________________ __________
Glen "Wiley" Wilson usenet1 SPAMNIX at worldwidewiley dot com
To reply, lose the capitals and do the obvious.

Take a look at cpRepeater, my NMEA data integrator, repeater, and
logger at http://www.worldwidewiley.com/

Me August 28th 04 03:42 AM

In article ,
"Meindert Sprang" wrote:

Why? OS X is just a slick interface on top of a rewritten unix (BSD, I
believe). So they are already the happiest people in the world ;-) And on
top of that, there is already decent nav software available for the Mac.

Meindert


I've been waiting for someone to post the above......been a MacOS fan
since Version 1.0


Me

Meindert Sprang August 28th 04 06:21 AM

"Me" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Meindert Sprang" wrote:

Why? OS X is just a slick interface on top of a rewritten unix (BSD, I
believe). So they are already the happiest people in the world ;-) And

on
top of that, there is already decent nav software available for the Mac.

Meindert


I've been waiting for someone to post the above......been a MacOS fan
since Version 1.0


Ok, have a go at me..... :-)

Meindert



BillP August 28th 04 01:02 PM

I am not . He is a satisfied customer of ours,
just as he says. In fact, we have never met and we live on opposite
ends of the country. If you were to google his name you would find
that he's contributed quite a bit to the Internet's boating
communities.


OK Brad...so he's your uncle...

No one makes multiple postings about how wonderful a new, version 1.0
application is. No one.

Why don't you come out with a Linux version like the rest of the people in
this thread want?



Meindert Sprang August 28th 04 08:28 PM

"BillP" wrote in message news:wv_Xc.3410$Rk.2365@trndny03...
Why don't you come out with a Linux version like the rest of the people in
this thread want?


Many people buy a dedicated chartplotter just because a windows based system
is too risky for them. That's another group of potential customers for a
linux package. One could even sell it pre-installed on a nice small 12V
computer, with the entire thing on a flash disk (solid state). This would
still allow you to run other apps as well.
By nature, windows is very unsuitable to be installed on a flash disk
because is writes so many temporary files on many places. This will wear out
a flash disk very soon. Linux on the other hand, is very well organized with
all temporary files on one specific place. Allocate a ramdisk for that and
your linux system will run for ages on a flash disk.

Meindert



John Proctor August 28th 04 10:39 PM

On 2004-08-27 16:31:47 +1000, "Meindert Sprang"
said:

"NIFFOCBT" wrote in message
...
Can you integrate several Sensors?.


Of course he can; with our multiplexers :-)

The type of plotter they use can sink and swim someone if
it is not done right. If a plotter is not set up correctly or fails at a
crucial moment then whats the use. You dont use a plotter on a nice

sunny
day. You use it when you are lost, tired, or in bad weather.



Triggered by the above remark I wonder why no company has yet written a
decent navigation package running on Linux.
I know this will stir up something, but I have been on a ship, developing
software to control a KVM switch that knitted 12 LCD's and 10 computers
together. All computers were running XP (!) except the one I installed for
controlling the KVM switch. This one ran linux and did the routing to four
selectable internet connections as well. Many of these computers had the
occasional crash, but the only one that kept on running was the Linux box.

Meindert
www.shipmodul.com


Well at the risk of stiring things up more...

We allready have a major unix based desktop that has very good
reliability and lots of applications software. It's called MacOS X. BSD
based it is really very good and very reliable. The major problem with
charting software for me is that all the packages I've looked at for
the Mac have support for BSB charts. This is great for NA and Europe
but utterly useless for Australia. ARCS and S57 are the way to go for
the future as this is where 'official' data will come from (hydro
offices).

Before anyone tries to convince me that there are BSB formated charts
for Australia I suggest you really look at the issue. There are none
that are usefull. This has been confirmed through several charting
software developers. Charting software is useless without charts!

The major commercial packages that support C-Map are a possibility as
both C-Map and Navonics have data sets that cover Australia. Just my 2
cents worth.

--
Regards,
John Proctor VK3JP, VKV6789
S/V Chagall


Glen \Wiley\ Wilson August 28th 04 11:20 PM

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 21:39:39 GMT, John Proctor
wrote:

The major problem with
charting software for me is that all the packages I've looked at for
the Mac have support for BSB charts. This is great for NA and Europe
but utterly useless for Australia. ARCS and S57 are the way to go for
the future as this is where 'official' data will come from (hydro
offices).

Before anyone tries to convince me that there are BSB formated charts
for Australia I suggest you really look at the issue. There are none
that are usefull. This has been confirmed through several charting
software developers. Charting software is useless without charts!


Concur, though I'd like a package that supports BSB as well as ARCS
and S57 ENCs. The next PC chart software I buy will support those
formats, period. The next chartplotter I buy will allow me to upload
my ARCS and S57s instead of buying proprietary chips, period. But I'm
not holding my breath...
__________________________________________________ __________
Glen "Wiley" Wilson usenet1 SPAMNIX at world wide wiley dot com
To reply, lose the capitals and do the obvious.

Take a look at cpRepeater, my NMEA data integrator, repeater, and
logger at http://www.worldwidewiley.com/

saltair August 30th 04 03:20 AM


"Meindert Sprang" wrote in message
...
Triggered by the above remark I wonder why no company has yet written a
decent navigation package running on Linux.


http://freshmeat.net/projects/hugo/

Not being a linux user I cannot comment on whether decent or not.



Meindert Sprang August 30th 04 07:32 AM

"saltair" wrote in message
news:l9wYc.262306$J06.191199@pd7tw2no...

"Meindert Sprang" wrote in message
...
Triggered by the above remark I wonder why no company has yet written a
decent navigation package running on Linux.


http://freshmeat.net/projects/hugo/

Not being a linux user I cannot comment on whether decent or not.


As far as I know, this software only shows where you are. No
routes/waypoints. No autopilot control.

Meindert



Jack Erbes August 30th 04 12:32 PM

Meindert Sprang wrote:

As far as I know, this software only shows where you are. No
routes/waypoints. No autopilot control.


Are there nav packages that control autopilots? All the autopilots I've
seen had their own processors and processed a magnetic heading input.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jacker at midmaine dot com

BillP August 30th 04 12:40 PM

Are there nav packages that control autopilots? All the autopilots I've
seen had their own processors and processed a magnetic heading input.


Yes, almost all of them accept a lat/lon route, waypoint, xte, etc. NMEA
sentence. Well, they have since about the mid-1990's. It's time to go to a
boat show and see all the new things!



Meindert Sprang August 30th 04 12:57 PM

"Jack Erbes" wrote in message
...
Meindert Sprang wrote:

As far as I know, this software only shows where you are. No
routes/waypoints. No autopilot control.


Are there nav packages that control autopilots? All the autopilots I've
seen had their own processors and processed a magnetic heading input.


If your nav package only receives a position and heading from the GPS and
this nav package maintains a route, it can calculate the cross track error
(XTE) and send that info to an autopilot.

Meindert



johannes m.r. August 30th 04 01:14 PM

"Meindert Sprang" wrote:
"saltair" wrote in message
news:l9wYc.262306$J06.191199@pd7tw2no...
"Meindert Sprang" wrote in message
...
Triggered by the above remark I wonder why no company has yet written a
decent navigation package running on Linux.


http://freshmeat.net/projects/hugo/

Not being a linux user I cannot comment on whether decent or not.


As far as I know, this software only shows where you are. No
routes/waypoints. No autopilot control.


GpsDrive has some waypoints features as well:
http://www.ganter.at/software/features.shtml
I am not a linux user either though.. :)
Regards,
j.

Jack Erbes August 31st 04 12:09 PM

Meindert Sprang wrote:
snip
Are there nav packages that control autopilots? All the autopilots I've
seen had their own processors and processed a magnetic heading input.



If your nav package only receives a position and heading from the GPS and
this nav package maintains a route, it can calculate the cross track error
(XTE) and send that info to an autopilot.


That is sort of what I meant or was thinking. The autopilot processes
the NMEA inputs from the heading sensor, GPS, and nav package and then
does the steering. I thought the implication was that there were nav
packages that actually processed the data and steered the boat.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jacker at midmaine dot com

Meindert Sprang August 31st 04 01:34 PM

"Jack Erbes" wrote in message
...
Meindert Sprang wrote:
snip
Are there nav packages that control autopilots? All the autopilots I've
seen had their own processors and processed a magnetic heading input.



If your nav package only receives a position and heading from the GPS

and
this nav package maintains a route, it can calculate the cross track

error
(XTE) and send that info to an autopilot.


That is sort of what I meant or was thinking. The autopilot processes
the NMEA inputs from the heading sensor, GPS, and nav package and then
does the steering.


That is not what I said. In my example, the only thing the autopilot sees is
the XTE.

I thought the implication was that there were nav
packages that actually processed the data and steered the boat.


Precisely. Imagine the following: the GPS only delivers the actual position
to your nav program. The nav program knows the waypoints of your route, they
are entered in the nav program, not in the GPS. So the nav program knows the
straight line between two current waypoints and calculates the error from
this line based on the current position from the GPS. This error is sent as
an XTE sentence to the autopilot which does nothing more that to steer until
the received XTE from the nav program is 0. So in this case the only one
doing the calculations and the processing, is the nav program. The XTE to
the autopilot is just an error signal in a control loop. The autopilot does
it's calculations to mimize the XTE while the nav program does the
calculations to derive the error from the current track.

Meindert



Kelton Joyner August 31st 04 03:39 PM

Meindert,
Not necessarly true for all gps and autopilots. My Garmin GPS48 stores
waypoints and routes. It outputs, among other sentences, RMB and RMC.
These two sentences provide the following information.
XTE,
Direction to steer (L or R),
Orgin Waypoint
Destination Waypoint
Destination Waypoint Latitude
Destination Waypoint Longitude
Range to Destination Waypoint(nm),
Bearing to Destination Waypoint (T),
Velocity Towards Destination Waypoint(kn)
Time of fix
Receiver warning (A=valid, V=warning)
Fix Latitude
Fix Longitude
Speed Over Ground (SOG)
Course Made Good
Date of fix
Magnetic Variation

My Raymarine ST4000+ autopilot can receive and decode both sentences
when the GPS NMEA output is connected to the autopilot and put in the
auto/track mode. It displays Destination Waypoint number (name), XTE,
Bearing to Waypoint (BTW), Distance to waypoint, Course over Ground
(COG), SOG, Heading, UTC, and Average Speed. For automatic track
acquisition, the autopilot needs both XTE and BTW. The autopilot will
steer with just XTE provided but you must be within 0.1 nm of desired
track and 5 degrees of the bearing to next waypoint when engaging auto
mode. I use the COG, SOG and Heading to determine set and drift. Even
though I have two GPS receivers and a laptop with Visual Navigation
Suite, I plot everything on paper charts and keep my DR figures handy.
krj

Meindert Sprang wrote:
"Jack Erbes" wrote in message
...

Meindert Sprang wrote:
snip

Are there nav packages that control autopilots? All the autopilots I've
seen had their own processors and processed a magnetic heading input.



If your nav package only receives a position and heading from the GPS


and

this nav package maintains a route, it can calculate the cross track


error

(XTE) and send that info to an autopilot.


That is sort of what I meant or was thinking. The autopilot processes
the NMEA inputs from the heading sensor, GPS, and nav package and then
does the steering.



That is not what I said. In my example, the only thing the autopilot sees is
the XTE.


I thought the implication was that there were nav
packages that actually processed the data and steered the boat.



Precisely. Imagine the following: the GPS only delivers the actual position
to your nav program. The nav program knows the waypoints of your route, they
are entered in the nav program, not in the GPS. So the nav program knows the
straight line between two current waypoints and calculates the error from
this line based on the current position from the GPS. This error is sent as
an XTE sentence to the autopilot which does nothing more that to steer until
the received XTE from the nav program is 0. So in this case the only one
doing the calculations and the processing, is the nav program. The XTE to
the autopilot is just an error signal in a control loop. The autopilot does
it's calculations to mimize the XTE while the nav program does the
calculations to derive the error from the current track.

Meindert





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