"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Larry W4CSC wrote:


Is it just me or did the US and UK just capture 1/3
of the world's sweetest oil supply? What idiot wants to
GIVE IT BACK?!!

An Ugly American personified...just the kind of low-brain output that
enrages those in less developed nations and incites them to attack us.

LOL. Larry's comment is definitely the funniest one I've read today.
However, I didn't realize how funny it was until I saw that Harry took
it
seriously.



Larry is serious. You don't know Larry very well.

He's five beers short
of a six pack.


Larry doesn't strike me as someone who would be affected by 5 beers. He
seems like a Stroh's 30-packer to me. Nevertheless, his comments were
pretty funny. Can't say I disagree with him either.

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:09:44 -0600, "Del Cecchi"
wrote:

At the least it has to be class A. And I bet pleasure boats would be
construed as class B.

del cecchi

If so, Adler-Barbour solid state fridge will never pass. Just listen
to the pulses on Marine VHF Channel 16....dammit....

Not to mention your 'favorite' Noland multiplexer.... They even admitted to
me once, that they did not have any kind of approval (FCC, CE)

Meindert

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 08:07:43 +0100, "Meindert Sprang"
wrote:

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:09:44 -0600, "Del Cecchi"
wrote:

At the least it has to be class A. And I bet pleasure boats would be
construed as class B.

del cecchi

If so, Adler-Barbour solid state fridge will never pass. Just listen
to the pulses on Marine VHF Channel 16....dammit....

Not to mention your 'favorite' Noland multiplexer.... They even admitted to
me once, that they did not have any kind of approval (FCC, CE)

Meindert


There's a source of information, guys. Meindert, what are the FCC
radiation requirements for this boat electronics? Are these items
required to pass FCC's consumer radiation requirements? Is Norland
violating the law?

My contention is marine electronics isn't covered, otherwise we'd have
a data system that's shielded, not the stupid NMEA-0183 with
unshielded connections screwed down helter-skelter balanced and
unbalanced any old way you builders want to do it with wires hanging
out, radiating like hell. Is this the TRUTH?



Larry W4CSC

No, no, Scotty! I said, "Beam me a wrench.", not a WENCH!
Kirk Out.....

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
There's a source of information, guys. Meindert, what are the FCC
radiation requirements for this boat electronics? Are these items
required to pass FCC's consumer radiation requirements? Is Norland
violating the law?

My contention is marine electronics isn't covered, otherwise we'd have
a data system that's shielded, not the stupid NMEA-0183 with
unshielded connections screwed down helter-skelter balanced and
unbalanced any old way you builders want to do it with wires hanging
out, radiating like hell. Is this the TRUTH?

According to FCC Part 15, a class B digital device is:
---QQQ---
A digital device that is marketed for use in a residential environment
notwithstanding use in commercial, business and industrial environments.
Examples of such devices include, but are not limited to, personal
computers, calculators, and similar electronic devices that are marketed for
use by the general public. Note: The responsible party may also qualify a
device intended to be marketed in a commercial, business or industrial
environment as a Class B device, and in fact is encouraged to do so,
provided the device complies with the technical specifications for a Class B
digital device. In the event that a particular type of device has been found
to repeatedly cause harmful
interference to radio communications, the Commission may classify such a
digital device as a Class B
digital device, regardless of its intended use.
---UQUQ---

Navigation electronics fall in the category of "digital devices marketed for
use by the general public". For professional use, there are even more
stringent standards (IEC945).

And it is my understanding that FCC approval or compliance is mandatory.
When I export to the US and ship with Fedex, they ant me to fill out a form,
stating that the my multiplexers comply with FCC Part 15 class B. Otherwise
they (Fedex, being the importer) can be held liable.
So you might think Noland is violating the law here. They are for sure with
the units they export to Europe, because they have no CE marking.

The limits for radiated emmission for class B devices a
30 - 88MHz: 100uV/m
88 - 216MHz: 150uV/m
216 - 960MHz: 200uV/m
Above 960MHz: 500uV/m
All measured at 3 meters distance.

Meindert

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:30:30 +0100, "Meindert Sprang"
wrote:


The limits for radiated emmission for class B devices a
30 - 88MHz: 100uV/m
88 - 216MHz: 150uV/m
216 - 960MHz: 200uV/m
Above 960MHz: 500uV/m
All measured at 3 meters distance.

Meindert

Thanks, but the keywords I see are RESIDENTIAL. They are
"encouraged", but not "required" to do so in an industrial
environment, same as computers. Also of interest if the 30 Mhz lower
limit in the above table. It doesn't say 0-88 Mhz. The most
important 30 Mhz is missing....for the HF SSB radios.



Larry W4CSC

No, no, Scotty! I said, "Beam me a wrench.", not a WENCH!
Kirk Out.....

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:30:30 +0100, "Meindert Sprang"
wrote:

Thanks, but the keywords I see are RESIDENTIAL. They are
"encouraged", but not "required" to do so in an industrial
environment, same as computers.

What is meant here is that for industrial environment, Class A is
sufficient, (which accepts a higher level of interference), bu they
arecouraged to qualify for Class B.

Also of interest if the 30 Mhz lower
limit in the above table. It doesn't say 0-88 Mhz. The most
important 30 Mhz is missing....for the HF SSB radios.

The figures I qouted were for radiated emission, which is hardly present on
lower frequencies. Below 30MHz, conducted emission is more the problem. This
is emission through connected wires and is measured with a current probe
setup.

Meindert

"Meindert Sprang" wrote in message
...
"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:30:30 +0100, "Meindert Sprang"
wrote:

Thanks, but the keywords I see are RESIDENTIAL. They are
"encouraged", but not "required" to do so in an industrial
environment, same as computers.

In section 15.103 sub (a) it says that devices operating exclusively in any
transportation vehicle (including motor vehicles and aircraft) are exempted.
Now according to my dictionary, a vehicle usually has wheel and mover over
land. What about boats?

Meindert

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 00:20:05 +0100, "Meindert Sprang"
wrote:


The figures I qouted were for radiated emission, which is hardly present on
lower frequencies. Below 30MHz, conducted emission is more the problem. This
is emission through connected wires and is measured with a current probe
setup.

Meindert

The radiation from the unshielded wires, with many of them sucking
noise from inside the shielded pair because you must hook one side
(NMEA B) to many grounds creating a giant HF antenna out of your
carefully shielded cabling, is the problem on the HF receivers......

Let's just dump all this NMEA crap from 1970 and build Bluetooth
compatibility into every new marine electronic gadget. No need for
multiplexers for ancient technology mistakes, wires radiating crap to
all the radios, wires picking up the 150 watt SSB transmitter and
trashing all the NMEA crap it's hooked to.

I was for USB until I got looking at Bluetooth......

http://www.bluetooth.com/news/index....PID=1130&ARC=1

"NAVMAN GPS 4460 LEADS THE WAY FOR PALM OS 5 USERS

Navigation Leader Unveils New palmOne Handheld Compatible Bluetooth
GPS Device

Foothill Ranch, Calif. – Navman, a leading designer and manufacturer
of world-class global positioning systems (GPS), communication and
marine products, announced today the latest addition to its innovative
line of GPS products for the consumer electronics market. The Navman
4460 is a voice-enabled, Bluetooth™ GPS receiver designed for Palm®OS
5-based handhelds (e.g. select devices from PalmOne, Inc. and Sony).
The device is powered by the latest version of Navman’s award winning
SmartST™ Professional navigation software and offers consumers the
most comprehensive self-contained guidance solution on the market. The
GPS 4460 is being unveiled at the 2004 International Consumer
Electronics Show.

SmartST Version II provides detailed street-level mapping for all of
North America, including Hawaii and Canada. The software is fully
automatic and provides voice (male or female) guidance, in addition to
visual driving instructions. Features include address-to-address
routing, Back-on-track? rerouting when off-course and an extensive
points-of-interest (POI) library. The POI database contains: retail
shops, entertainment venues, local amenities, restaurants, bars,
buildings and monuments, hotels, public transportation, gas stations,
garages, sports facilities, institutions, medical services and natural
attractions, allowing users to plan routes more easily and
effectively. SmartST options provide the ability to find the shortest
or quickest route to any destination, set locations as favorites,
select from a list of recent address entries, and hear spoken
instructions in one of seven languages. Large display icons and
easy-to-read maps provide an operator-friendly interface for added
safety while driving. SmartST is also optimized for palmOne’s new
Tungsten™ T3 handheld, allowing users to take advantage of the
device’s full 320x480 screen in both portrait and landscape modes.

The 4460 device employs a high-performance GPS receiver combined with
an embedded, Class 2 Bluetooth transceiver, which facilitates the
wireless communication of accurate satellite navigation information to
the handheld device. Once the SmartST software is installed onto the
user’s computer, it can be downloaded to the PDA via synchronization,
and map, voice and POI data is stored on an SD Card. A blinking LED
displays connectivity status and low battery indication. The complete
GPS 4460 solution includes a wireless GPS antenna, SmartST
Professional navigation software, a vehicle power adapter, vehicle
mounting brackets, and both an armband and lanyard for outdoor
personal use. The unit operates for 30 hours on 3 AAA Alkaline
batteries (included)."

Isn't it time to DUMP NMEA-XXXX and move all boat instruments on to
wireless technology?

Yes, it is.....



Larry W4CSC

No, no, Scotty! I said, "Beam me a wrench.", not a WENCH!
Kirk Out.....

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 00:29:48 +0100, "Meindert Sprang"
wrote:

"Meindert Sprang" wrote in message
...
"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:30:30 +0100, "Meindert Sprang"
wrote:

Thanks, but the keywords I see are RESIDENTIAL. They are
"encouraged", but not "required" to do so in an industrial
environment, same as computers.

In section 15.103 sub (a) it says that devices operating exclusively in any
transportation vehicle (including motor vehicles and aircraft) are exempted.
Now according to my dictionary, a vehicle usually has wheel and mover over
land. What about boats?

Meindert


A boat is a transportation vehicle, so is exempt and manufacturers can
go all to hell screwing up the Icom with radiating chargers, NMEA
gadgets, computer displays and use cheap screw terminals on
un-shielded, unbalanced feed lines to turn the whole damned boat into
a giant broadband transmitter.

(See my comment about Bluetooth.....last message)


Larry W4CSC

No, no, Scotty! I said, "Beam me a wrench.", not a WENCH!
Kirk Out.....

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
The radiation from the unshielded wires, with many of them sucking
noise from inside the shielded pair because you must hook one side
(NMEA B) to many grounds creating a giant HF antenna out of your
carefully shielded cabling, is the problem on the HF receivers......

Agreed. It is therefore very important to have RF filtering in a device on
the terminals, to prevent any RF from leaking out over wires.

Let's just dump all this NMEA crap from 1970 and build Bluetooth
compatibility into every new marine electronic gadget. No need for
multiplexers for ancient technology mistakes, wires radiating crap to
all the radios, wires picking up the 150 watt SSB transmitter and
trashing all the NMEA crap it's hooked to.

Yes and no. I will have a Bluetooth mulitplexer soon, but the problem with
Bluetooth is that it allows either data over a 'serial profile', which is a
point to point connection between two devices only (which my BT multiplexer
will be: mux - PDA or computer) or you can have a piconet, which creates
an RF network with a limit of 8 devices. I wonder though what an average BT
device does when 150 W of RF is emitted in the near vincinity....
One think is for su BT or any RF datalink is far away from any approval
needed for commercial vessels.

Meindert