I remember reading that somewhere. Maybe in a Sailnet article. Gordon
West is a big believer in through hull SSB grounding but he also wrote a
great article on copper foil systems and how to isolate DC grounds from
the internal SSB ground.

Bruce Gordon wrote:

In article ,
"Doug Dotson" wrote:


An issue of ME from summer before last pretty much debunked the
idea of building extensive groundplanes into the hulls of boats. Gordon
West and a fella that was a retired Navy guy in charge of inspecting
ships for 100 sq-ft counterpoise compliance did some tests. Four
systems were tried using a modified coax switch to switch the
counterpoise between them. The systems we

1) Extensive mesh glassed into the hull of a brand new Swan.
2) Copper foil hung over the side touching the water.
3) Copper foil trailing 100' brhind the boat.
4) Copper foil wrapped around a through-hull secured with a hose clamp.

Results: No real difference!


I haven't seen any published data like the above, anywhere. Can you
provide a URL or reference for the above? I find that "some retired Navy
guy" to be a bit to much in the "hearsay" catagory, and I haven't paid
any attention to Gordy in years. I have spent 35 years designing,
installing, and Inspecting, LF, MF and HF Radio Systems on Vessels
ranging from 16 ft, to 600 ft, and Coast Stations in the Maritime Mobile
Radio Service throughout the North Pacific Coasts. My opinions are my
own, and are subject to my own experiences over the years. They are
shared freely, when asked for, usually. Others may, and do, hold
different opinions, that may, or may not, be mutually exclusive.

Like I stated previously, "If it were ME"

Bruce in alaska


--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Some retired Navy guy" is my term for he whose name I can't
remember. Apparently he is well regarded in the field of marine
HF with 40 years of experience. ME (Marine Electronics) is the
official publication of the NMEA. I was an associate member for a
year so got it every month (or was it quarterly?). I'm pretty sure that
the article was in an issue during the summer of 2002. I tried the
foil-to-thruhull option and it has works great. I had foil strung from
stem to stern tied into keel bolts and everything in my previous boat.
Simpler solution seems to work just as well.

Doug


"Bruce Gordon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Doug Dotson" wrote:

An issue of ME from summer before last pretty much debunked the
idea of building extensive groundplanes into the hulls of boats. Gordon
West and a fella that was a retired Navy guy in charge of inspecting
ships for 100 sq-ft counterpoise compliance did some tests. Four
systems were tried using a modified coax switch to switch the
counterpoise between them. The systems we

1) Extensive mesh glassed into the hull of a brand new Swan.
2) Copper foil hung over the side touching the water.
3) Copper foil trailing 100' brhind the boat.
4) Copper foil wrapped around a through-hull secured with a hose clamp.

Results: No real difference!

I haven't seen any published data like the above, anywhere. Can you
provide a URL or reference for the above? I find that "some retired Navy
guy" to be a bit to much in the "hearsay" catagory, and I haven't paid
any attention to Gordy in years. I have spent 35 years designing,
installing, and Inspecting, LF, MF and HF Radio Systems on Vessels
ranging from 16 ft, to 600 ft, and Coast Stations in the Maritime Mobile
Radio Service throughout the North Pacific Coasts. My opinions are my
own, and are subject to my own experiences over the years. They are
shared freely, when asked for, usually. Others may, and do, hold
different opinions, that may, or may not, be mutually exclusive.

Like I stated previously, "If it were ME"

Bruce in alaska

--
Bruce (semiretired powderman & exFCC Field Inspector for Southeastern
Alaska)
add a 2 before @
Bruce Gordon * Debora Gordon R.N. Bruce's Trading Post
P.O. Box EXI Excursion Inlet South
Juneau, Alaska 99850 Excursion Inlet, Alaska 99850
www.btpost.net www.99850.net

Gordon's article predates the one in ME by quite a bit. If I recall
correctly, he is now a convert to the simpler methods.

Doug

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:xJUqb.10779$62.3205@lakeread04...
I remember reading that somewhere. Maybe in a Sailnet article. Gordon
West is a big believer in through hull SSB grounding but he also wrote a
great article on copper foil systems and how to isolate DC grounds from
the internal SSB ground.

Bruce Gordon wrote:

In article ,
"Doug Dotson" wrote:


An issue of ME from summer before last pretty much debunked the
idea of building extensive groundplanes into the hulls of boats. Gordon
West and a fella that was a retired Navy guy in charge of inspecting
ships for 100 sq-ft counterpoise compliance did some tests. Four
systems were tried using a modified coax switch to switch the
counterpoise between them. The systems we

1) Extensive mesh glassed into the hull of a brand new Swan.
2) Copper foil hung over the side touching the water.
3) Copper foil trailing 100' brhind the boat.
4) Copper foil wrapped around a through-hull secured with a hose clamp.

Results: No real difference!


I haven't seen any published data like the above, anywhere. Can you
provide a URL or reference for the above? I find that "some retired
Navy
guy" to be a bit to much in the "hearsay" catagory, and I haven't paid
any attention to Gordy in years. I have spent 35 years designing,
installing, and Inspecting, LF, MF and HF Radio Systems on Vessels
ranging from 16 ft, to 600 ft, and Coast Stations in the Maritime Mobile
Radio Service throughout the North Pacific Coasts. My opinions are my
own, and are subject to my own experiences over the years. They are
shared freely, when asked for, usually. Others may, and do, hold
different opinions, that may, or may not, be mutually exclusive.

Like I stated previously, "If it were ME"

Bruce in alaska


--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

I read this answer in Cruising World about two years back. It is also on
Gordon Wests web site, I remember, but do not have the addr.

It does run counter to what I learned in school and at work though.

Larry DeMers


Bruce Gordon wrote:

In article ,
"Doug Dotson" wrote:

An issue of ME from summer before last pretty much debunked the
idea of building extensive groundplanes into the hulls of boats. Gordon
West and a fella that was a retired Navy guy in charge of inspecting
ships for 100 sq-ft counterpoise compliance did some tests. Four
systems were tried using a modified coax switch to switch the
counterpoise between them. The systems we

1) Extensive mesh glassed into the hull of a brand new Swan.
2) Copper foil hung over the side touching the water.
3) Copper foil trailing 100' brhind the boat.
4) Copper foil wrapped around a through-hull secured with a hose clamp.

Results: No real difference!

I haven't seen any published data like the above, anywhere. Can you
provide a URL or reference for the above? I find that "some retired Navy
guy" to be a bit to much in the "hearsay" catagory, and I haven't paid
any attention to Gordy in years. I have spent 35 years designing,
installing, and Inspecting, LF, MF and HF Radio Systems on Vessels
ranging from 16 ft, to 600 ft, and Coast Stations in the Maritime Mobile
Radio Service throughout the North Pacific Coasts. My opinions are my
own, and are subject to my own experiences over the years. They are
shared freely, when asked for, usually. Others may, and do, hold
different opinions, that may, or may not, be mutually exclusive.

Like I stated previously, "If it were ME"

Bruce in alaska

--
Bruce (semiretired powderman & exFCC Field Inspector for Southeastern Alaska)
add a 2 before @
Bruce Gordon * Debora Gordon R.N. Bruce's Trading Post
P.O. Box EXI Excursion Inlet South
Juneau, Alaska 99850 Excursion Inlet, Alaska 99850
www.btpost.net www.99850.net

I tend to believe reallity rather than what I learned in school
and work

Doug

"Larry Demers" wrote in message
...
I read this answer in Cruising World about two years back. It is also
on
Gordon Wests web site, I remember, but do not have the addr.

It does run counter to what I learned in school and at work though.

Larry DeMers


Bruce Gordon wrote:

In article ,
"Doug Dotson" wrote:

An issue of ME from summer before last pretty much debunked the
idea of building extensive groundplanes into the hulls of boats.
Gordon
West and a fella that was a retired Navy guy in charge of inspecting
ships for 100 sq-ft counterpoise compliance did some tests. Four
systems were tried using a modified coax switch to switch the
counterpoise between them. The systems we

1) Extensive mesh glassed into the hull of a brand new Swan.
2) Copper foil hung over the side touching the water.
3) Copper foil trailing 100' brhind the boat.
4) Copper foil wrapped around a through-hull secured with a hose
clamp.

Results: No real difference!

I haven't seen any published data like the above, anywhere. Can you
provide a URL or reference for the above? I find that "some retired
Navy
guy" to be a bit to much in the "hearsay" catagory, and I haven't paid
any attention to Gordy in years. I have spent 35 years designing,
installing, and Inspecting, LF, MF and HF Radio Systems on Vessels
ranging from 16 ft, to 600 ft, and Coast Stations in the Maritime Mobile
Radio Service throughout the North Pacific Coasts. My opinions are my
own, and are subject to my own experiences over the years. They are
shared freely, when asked for, usually. Others may, and do, hold
different opinions, that may, or may not, be mutually exclusive.

Like I stated previously, "If it were ME"

Bruce in alaska

--
Bruce (semiretired powderman & exFCC Field Inspector for Southeastern
Alaska)
add a 2 before @
Bruce Gordon * Debora Gordon R.N. Bruce's Trading Post
P.O. Box EXI Excursion Inlet South
Juneau, Alaska 99850 Excursion Inlet, Alaska 99850
www.btpost.net www.99850.net

Horizontal dipoles not only need no ground plane but become "sky
warmers" if mounted close to one. OTOH, single-element verticals need a
good ground plane to supply the missing half of the dipole. From what
I've seen here so far, most boat antennae, including Uncle Sam's, are
hybrids; neither vertical nor horizontal, some dipoles some not. So it
could be that you're *all* right, depending on the particulars of the
antennae you've seen. Sort of like blind guys describing an elephant
based on touch.

When we used to camp alot I'd put up a 1/4 wave vertical cut for 20
meters (32') with a lanyard that let me hoist an inverted V cut for 40
to the top of it. With one or the other (I'd lower the V for 20m) fed by
an auto tuner my child bride could work most anywhere on her 100w ICOM
706. Need Samoa? Switch on the 1.5KW amplifier.

Given the excellent groundplane our boat sits in I'd think that a 32'
vertical with top loading for lower freq's mounted on the stern pulpit
with a ground wire and sinker tossed off the fantail otta work FB. For
those who prefer complication the fore and aft stays otta make a great
inverted V if suitably insulated. Natch YMMV.

73, K3DWW