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Battery Water (revisited)
I agree buy the distilled water and get on with it. I have seen people put
dirty river water in a battery and last for many years later. don't be so picky |
Battery Water (revisited)
Steve wrote:
In another store I found two brands of "distilled" water. One label stated that it came for "Portland water system, charcoal filtered, Reverse Osmoses or steam distilation." I many not have the wording exactly, but that "OR" worrys me. Else where on the label it states that it has less than 1ppm solids. If that is from the Portland, Oregon water supply it is good enough to use out of the tap. I purchased a couple gallons of the product that provided the info on TDS (1ppm) but now I'm unsure of how high a TDS I should allow.. I have no idea where to have a sample tested of the other stuff.. If you are really that uptight about the water you can buy a small TDS meter for a couple of hundred bucks. They read in either PPM or TDS and for conversion purposes PPM is about 2/3rds of TDS in micromhos and good distillate will be well under a hundred and really good is under 10 mmhos. If you are desperate send me a pint and I will test it for TDS, chlorides, and pH but it hardly seems worth the effort. The first time you add water through a salt-air damp funnel or transfer crud from the battery fill necks you will have wasted a years worth of worrying. Anyone have any idea of what would be exceptable for my $600+ battery bank?? Perhaps I should call Trojan?? Makes a lot more sense than believing what you read in a newsgroup. Rick |
Battery Water (revisited)
Steve-
You can get a handheld TDS meter from Village Marine for about $60. During our three year cruise of the Eastern Caribbean, I used to make the water for my 12xT105s in accordance with the manual for the water maker...use the RO water as the feed but you must reduce the pressure from 850psig to 200psig. Regards- Charlie |
Battery Water (revisited)
Distilled water is easy to test. All you need is a common ohmmeter,
especially one with a high resistance range (not the cheapest thing Radio Shack sells for $10 like most boaters use). Distilled water has a resistance of infinity, it's an INSULATOR! Broadcast transmitters, like RCA's big UHF TV transmitter with two huge klystron tubes that must be water cooled, put 18,000 VDC on their klystron tube's collector.....inside the boiler where the distilled water is perking away absorbing the energy of the massive dose of electrons crashing headlong into the big copper collector. A meter measures "body current" which shows the leakage through the distilled water back to the big power supply whos transformers look like your neighborhood power company substation. A demineralizer sucks out the copper ions that happen when the tinest impurities in the distilled water eat away at the copper, mostly making copper sulphate, a conductor. In pure distilled water, copper doesn't even discolor because distilled water is very stable. So, all we need to do is take a sample of the "distilled" water you bought and set the ohmmeter on its highest ohm range and put the two test probes down into the water as close together as you can get them without touching them to each other......and the meter should still read INFINITY resistance. Anything less should not be put in a battery. I make about 12 gallons of distilled water in 24 hours with my commercial distiller. Having had 4 kidney stones removed because Charleston water is like a calcium bath, I said enough is enough. Mine is made of porcelain with stainless tubing adn parts and latex surgical hoses to connect the cooled water to the outside world, totally inert. I have a 10,000 volt "Hipot Tester" used to test electrical insulators to test its purity. The Hipot tester current meter at 10KV moves barely perceptibly when two platinum wires are inserted into a glass beaker of my water that are 4" long and 1" apart. The local water test lab says I'm producing better distilled water than they have. I gave them a gallon to use for their tests as a thank you for the water testing. I paid $18 for the distiller, brand new, from a surplus thrift shop who had no idea what it was, the find of a lifetime of dumpster diving. It's retail value is about $900. Distilled water costs about 25 cents per gallon at 8 cents per kilowatt hour of electricity. If you ever saw what Charleston city swampwater looked like after I boil away 24 gallons of H2O from it that's left in my boiler tank, you'd NEVER drink from a drinking fountain or tap again....It's brown like....well, you know....and huge calcium deposits coat everything in the distiller, not my kidneys, thank you! Oh, just for the RO lovers who've been convinced distilling takes out valuable health minerals, it's all a lie. The human body CANNOT use elemental metals to build strong bones and teeth and keep you healthy. Water, in case you haven't peed lately, is the body's FLUSHING WATER and the purer it is, the better it acts as a solvent to flush out the junk from you. ORGANIC calcium, not elemental calcium builds bones. No kidney stones in 5 years, now....(c; If you taste that "distilled water" from the store, you'll notice it tastes like metal dissolved in it. Distilling also distills anything that can be boiled off of the original water....like xylene, benzene, toulene, all the other enes polluting out water supply. Our water tests pretty high, but below the "safe level" for benzene, which comes from airplanes burning JP4 by the billions of gallons per year, I'm told. (see my tagline). This can be easily removed by passing the distilled water from the distiller through a column of activated carbon (not charcoal which introduces pollution). Pure activated carbon is really cheap on a 16 oz container in the fish department of every WalMart in a plastic jug. I think a lifetime supply is about $3. The activated carbon bonds, chemically, with the enes which attach themselves, permanently to the carbon forming new molecules... My system uses a nylon meat baster for a carbon column. Remove the rubber squeeze bulb from the nylon body of the baster and cut a slot in the end of the bulb. Push the pointy end of the baster through the slot through the bulb and let it stick out about an inch below the original bulb's open hole. This makes a plug that holds the baster vertical perfectly in the top of a 5-gallon standard water jug that fits my water cooler. The baster body has a little cone of coffee filter paper pushed into the bottom end from the top to keep the carbon from getting into the jug. Carbon is spooned into the baster on top of this filter cone until it's within 1/2" of the top. The water outlet hose is put in the top of the baster and she's ready to filter a batch of "homebrew". The water that ends up in the jug, now free of all distillable enes is DELICIOUS as well as perfect. The metallic taste of the enes is completely gone because they have been absorbed trickling down through the carbon. For sanitary purposes, the filter cone and carbon are disposed of each time I make a batch and fill my many bottles. Actually the carbon becomes so HOT from this chemical reaction no virus or bacteria could survive. NYLON is necessary because the heat cracked the glass one and melted the plastic basters in less than 5 minutes! But, carbon is so cheap...why take a chance? Well, all my friends get battery water from here. Maybe I should start marketing it!.....(c; Hmm...custom battery water - $4.99/gallon custom BOAT battery water - $18.95/gallon at West Marine.... That's about right, isn't it? We'll put some pennant flags and a steamship's wheel on the marine bottles to make it "Look Nautical"....It'll sell like hotcakes.... Which captain and boat magazines shall we get to endorse it.......hmmm....... On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:00:54 -0700, "Steve" wrote: Thanks for all the tips on finding distilled water for my batteries. However, I still remain sceptical regarding the quality of the supermarket "distilled water". In one store I found it labeled as "steam distilled" water but no reference to the TDS (total desolved solids). In another store I found two brands of "distilled" water. One label stated that it came for "Portland water system, charcoal filtered, Reverse Osmoses or steam distilation." I many not have the wording exactly, but that "OR" worrys me. Else where on the label it states that it has less than 1ppm solids. The other brand only indicated that it came from a plant in New Hampshire and gave a 800 number. Surprisingly, I called it at 1700 Pac. time and got a real live and helpful person. He had to go check when I as what process was used to produce the "distilled water". Without any prompting, as to what answer I wanted to hear, he came back on the line and told me it was Steam Distilled. However, I neglected to ask if he know what the TDS was for this product. I got the impression that he was just an answering service for the distiller and had to call someone for all technical matters. I purchased a couple gallons of the product that provided the info on TDS (1ppm) but now I'm unsure of how high a TDS I should allow.. I have no idea where to have a sample tested of the other stuff.. Anyone have any idea of what would be exceptable for my $600+ battery bank?? Perhaps I should call Trojan?? BTW. I had several gallon jugs of nice clean rain water. Well, after sitting on the shelf for 2 years, this water developed green algae bloom.. I dumpted it out but later, I realized I could have filtered it through coffee filters. Steve s/v Good Intentions Larry W4CSC 3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right? |
Battery Water (revisited)
On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 20:33:19 -0400, Glenn Ashmore
wrote: Steve, the steam distilled is as good as it gets unless you pay through the nose for laboratory grade USP water. I have been playing with this Hanna TDS meter that I am putting on my watermaker. It came with calibration samples of USP water and a 1000 ppm TDS sample. I calibrated zero ppm with the USP water and 1000 ppm with the other sample then started playing with different samples. The kitchen faucet read 190 ppm. A sample of grocery store distilled water was 15 ppm. Less than 8% of faucet water. What's the RO water reading? Grocery store distilled is probably tainted by benzene and other light enes and fuels that will also distill. Try filtering the store distilled through a 6" column of activated carbon from any WalMart fish department. Taste the difference between the unfiltered and filtered. It's easy to taste the metallic taste is gone from the filtered. I'd like to know if your TDS reads different before and after the filtering. (See my post here about my distillation plant...(c;) Be real careful of that RO watermaker. There's lots of evidence now that it does block the bacteria, BUT, the pressure is breaking the bacteria apart and releasing its toxins whos molecules are so small they flow through the membrane into your drinking water. They're searching for answers to these cruise ships mass casualties and, currently, all fingers are pointing at the RO watermakers in the bilge.... Larry W4CSC 3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right? |
Battery Water (revisited)
"Mark" wrote in message om... Anyone have any idea of what would be exceptable for my $600+ battery bank?? Perhaps I should call Trojan?? I called Trojan headquarters last week and asked exactly that question. The technician said 100ppm TDS or less is acceptable for a typical boat application, and grocery store "distilled" water almost always beats that spec by a mile. If not, there'd be a whole bunch of ladies toting steam irons raising holy hell at the store. We also talked about RO watermakers; he said they typically produce 200ppm water which is not acceptable long term, but certainly a top off or two isn't a concern. He said there's a simple solution for cruisers with RO in far away places; run the RO product water through the watermaker a second time to make your battery water. One simple solution is to use sealed batteries :) |
Battery Water (revisited)
Larry W4CSC wrote:
3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right? Perhaps you need to add another layer to your tinfoil hat and reduce your exposure to RF from those transponders. You really have been listening to too much AM radio lately, your posts have gone from weird to bizarre. Rick |
Battery Water (revisited)
I've always found distilled water pretty bland to drink.
Not sure DELICIOUS would be my description of water that has no taste :) Doug "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... Distilled water is easy to test. All you need is a common ohmmeter, especially one with a high resistance range (not the cheapest thing Radio Shack sells for $10 like most boaters use). Distilled water has a resistance of infinity, it's an INSULATOR! Broadcast transmitters, like RCA's big UHF TV transmitter with two huge klystron tubes that must be water cooled, put 18,000 VDC on their klystron tube's collector.....inside the boiler where the distilled water is perking away absorbing the energy of the massive dose of electrons crashing headlong into the big copper collector. A meter measures "body current" which shows the leakage through the distilled water back to the big power supply whos transformers look like your neighborhood power company substation. A demineralizer sucks out the copper ions that happen when the tinest impurities in the distilled water eat away at the copper, mostly making copper sulphate, a conductor. In pure distilled water, copper doesn't even discolor because distilled water is very stable. So, all we need to do is take a sample of the "distilled" water you bought and set the ohmmeter on its highest ohm range and put the two test probes down into the water as close together as you can get them without touching them to each other......and the meter should still read INFINITY resistance. Anything less should not be put in a battery. I make about 12 gallons of distilled water in 24 hours with my commercial distiller. Having had 4 kidney stones removed because Charleston water is like a calcium bath, I said enough is enough. Mine is made of porcelain with stainless tubing adn parts and latex surgical hoses to connect the cooled water to the outside world, totally inert. I have a 10,000 volt "Hipot Tester" used to test electrical insulators to test its purity. The Hipot tester current meter at 10KV moves barely perceptibly when two platinum wires are inserted into a glass beaker of my water that are 4" long and 1" apart. The local water test lab says I'm producing better distilled water than they have. I gave them a gallon to use for their tests as a thank you for the water testing. I paid $18 for the distiller, brand new, from a surplus thrift shop who had no idea what it was, the find of a lifetime of dumpster diving. It's retail value is about $900. Distilled water costs about 25 cents per gallon at 8 cents per kilowatt hour of electricity. If you ever saw what Charleston city swampwater looked like after I boil away 24 gallons of H2O from it that's left in my boiler tank, you'd NEVER drink from a drinking fountain or tap again....It's brown like....well, you know....and huge calcium deposits coat everything in the distiller, not my kidneys, thank you! Oh, just for the RO lovers who've been convinced distilling takes out valuable health minerals, it's all a lie. The human body CANNOT use elemental metals to build strong bones and teeth and keep you healthy. Water, in case you haven't peed lately, is the body's FLUSHING WATER and the purer it is, the better it acts as a solvent to flush out the junk from you. ORGANIC calcium, not elemental calcium builds bones. No kidney stones in 5 years, now....(c; If you taste that "distilled water" from the store, you'll notice it tastes like metal dissolved in it. Distilling also distills anything that can be boiled off of the original water....like xylene, benzene, toulene, all the other enes polluting out water supply. Our water tests pretty high, but below the "safe level" for benzene, which comes from airplanes burning JP4 by the billions of gallons per year, I'm told. (see my tagline). This can be easily removed by passing the distilled water from the distiller through a column of activated carbon (not charcoal which introduces pollution). Pure activated carbon is really cheap on a 16 oz container in the fish department of every WalMart in a plastic jug. I think a lifetime supply is about $3. The activated carbon bonds, chemically, with the enes which attach themselves, permanently to the carbon forming new molecules... My system uses a nylon meat baster for a carbon column. Remove the rubber squeeze bulb from the nylon body of the baster and cut a slot in the end of the bulb. Push the pointy end of the baster through the slot through the bulb and let it stick out about an inch below the original bulb's open hole. This makes a plug that holds the baster vertical perfectly in the top of a 5-gallon standard water jug that fits my water cooler. The baster body has a little cone of coffee filter paper pushed into the bottom end from the top to keep the carbon from getting into the jug. Carbon is spooned into the baster on top of this filter cone until it's within 1/2" of the top. The water outlet hose is put in the top of the baster and she's ready to filter a batch of "homebrew". The water that ends up in the jug, now free of all distillable enes is DELICIOUS as well as perfect. The metallic taste of the enes is completely gone because they have been absorbed trickling down through the carbon. For sanitary purposes, the filter cone and carbon are disposed of each time I make a batch and fill my many bottles. Actually the carbon becomes so HOT from this chemical reaction no virus or bacteria could survive. NYLON is necessary because the heat cracked the glass one and melted the plastic basters in less than 5 minutes! But, carbon is so cheap...why take a chance? Well, all my friends get battery water from here. Maybe I should start marketing it!.....(c; Hmm...custom battery water - $4.99/gallon custom BOAT battery water - $18.95/gallon at West Marine.... That's about right, isn't it? We'll put some pennant flags and a steamship's wheel on the marine bottles to make it "Look Nautical"....It'll sell like hotcakes.... Which captain and boat magazines shall we get to endorse it.......hmmm....... On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:00:54 -0700, "Steve" wrote: Thanks for all the tips on finding distilled water for my batteries. However, I still remain sceptical regarding the quality of the supermarket "distilled water". In one store I found it labeled as "steam distilled" water but no reference to the TDS (total desolved solids). In another store I found two brands of "distilled" water. One label stated that it came for "Portland water system, charcoal filtered, Reverse Osmoses or steam distilation." I many not have the wording exactly, but that "OR" worrys me. Else where on the label it states that it has less than 1ppm solids. The other brand only indicated that it came from a plant in New Hampshire and gave a 800 number. Surprisingly, I called it at 1700 Pac. time and got a real live and helpful person. He had to go check when I as what process was used to produce the "distilled water". Without any prompting, as to what answer I wanted to hear, he came back on the line and told me it was Steam Distilled. However, I neglected to ask if he know what the TDS was for this product. I got the impression that he was just an answering service for the distiller and had to call someone for all technical matters. I purchased a couple gallons of the product that provided the info on TDS (1ppm) but now I'm unsure of how high a TDS I should allow.. I have no idea where to have a sample tested of the other stuff.. Anyone have any idea of what would be exceptable for my $600+ battery bank?? Perhaps I should call Trojan?? BTW. I had several gallon jugs of nice clean rain water. Well, after sitting on the shelf for 2 years, this water developed green algae bloom.. I dumpted it out but later, I realized I could have filtered it through coffee filters. Steve s/v Good Intentions Larry W4CSC 3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right? |
Battery Water (revisited)
But it makes great coffee.
Ron |
Battery Water (revisited)
That's the taste of it before carbon filtration. It tastes awful with
the other distillates left in it. Everyone compliments me on my homebrew water wherever it's served. They all like the taste. I always come home with empty containers. You don't suppose they're dumping it overboard while I'm asleep, do you??....(c; Pour the distilled through 6" of activated carbon and try it again... On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:11:18 -0400, "Doug Dotson" wrote: I've always found distilled water pretty bland to drink. Not sure DELICIOUS would be my description of water that has no taste :) Doug "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... Distilled water is easy to test. All you need is a common ohmmeter, especially one with a high resistance range (not the cheapest thing Radio Shack sells for $10 like most boaters use). Distilled water has a resistance of infinity, it's an INSULATOR! Broadcast transmitters, like RCA's big UHF TV transmitter with two huge klystron tubes that must be water cooled, put 18,000 VDC on their klystron tube's collector.....inside the boiler where the distilled water is perking away absorbing the energy of the massive dose of electrons crashing headlong into the big copper collector. A meter measures "body current" which shows the leakage through the distilled water back to the big power supply whos transformers look like your neighborhood power company substation. A demineralizer sucks out the copper ions that happen when the tinest impurities in the distilled water eat away at the copper, mostly making copper sulphate, a conductor. In pure distilled water, copper doesn't even discolor because distilled water is very stable. So, all we need to do is take a sample of the "distilled" water you bought and set the ohmmeter on its highest ohm range and put the two test probes down into the water as close together as you can get them without touching them to each other......and the meter should still read INFINITY resistance. Anything less should not be put in a battery. I make about 12 gallons of distilled water in 24 hours with my commercial distiller. Having had 4 kidney stones removed because Charleston water is like a calcium bath, I said enough is enough. Mine is made of porcelain with stainless tubing adn parts and latex surgical hoses to connect the cooled water to the outside world, totally inert. I have a 10,000 volt "Hipot Tester" used to test electrical insulators to test its purity. The Hipot tester current meter at 10KV moves barely perceptibly when two platinum wires are inserted into a glass beaker of my water that are 4" long and 1" apart. The local water test lab says I'm producing better distilled water than they have. I gave them a gallon to use for their tests as a thank you for the water testing. I paid $18 for the distiller, brand new, from a surplus thrift shop who had no idea what it was, the find of a lifetime of dumpster diving. It's retail value is about $900. Distilled water costs about 25 cents per gallon at 8 cents per kilowatt hour of electricity. If you ever saw what Charleston city swampwater looked like after I boil away 24 gallons of H2O from it that's left in my boiler tank, you'd NEVER drink from a drinking fountain or tap again....It's brown like....well, you know....and huge calcium deposits coat everything in the distiller, not my kidneys, thank you! Oh, just for the RO lovers who've been convinced distilling takes out valuable health minerals, it's all a lie. The human body CANNOT use elemental metals to build strong bones and teeth and keep you healthy. Water, in case you haven't peed lately, is the body's FLUSHING WATER and the purer it is, the better it acts as a solvent to flush out the junk from you. ORGANIC calcium, not elemental calcium builds bones. No kidney stones in 5 years, now....(c; If you taste that "distilled water" from the store, you'll notice it tastes like metal dissolved in it. Distilling also distills anything that can be boiled off of the original water....like xylene, benzene, toulene, all the other enes polluting out water supply. Our water tests pretty high, but below the "safe level" for benzene, which comes from airplanes burning JP4 by the billions of gallons per year, I'm told. (see my tagline). This can be easily removed by passing the distilled water from the distiller through a column of activated carbon (not charcoal which introduces pollution). Pure activated carbon is really cheap on a 16 oz container in the fish department of every WalMart in a plastic jug. I think a lifetime supply is about $3. The activated carbon bonds, chemically, with the enes which attach themselves, permanently to the carbon forming new molecules... My system uses a nylon meat baster for a carbon column. Remove the rubber squeeze bulb from the nylon body of the baster and cut a slot in the end of the bulb. Push the pointy end of the baster through the slot through the bulb and let it stick out about an inch below the original bulb's open hole. This makes a plug that holds the baster vertical perfectly in the top of a 5-gallon standard water jug that fits my water cooler. The baster body has a little cone of coffee filter paper pushed into the bottom end from the top to keep the carbon from getting into the jug. Carbon is spooned into the baster on top of this filter cone until it's within 1/2" of the top. The water outlet hose is put in the top of the baster and she's ready to filter a batch of "homebrew". The water that ends up in the jug, now free of all distillable enes is DELICIOUS as well as perfect. The metallic taste of the enes is completely gone because they have been absorbed trickling down through the carbon. For sanitary purposes, the filter cone and carbon are disposed of each time I make a batch and fill my many bottles. Actually the carbon becomes so HOT from this chemical reaction no virus or bacteria could survive. NYLON is necessary because the heat cracked the glass one and melted the plastic basters in less than 5 minutes! But, carbon is so cheap...why take a chance? Well, all my friends get battery water from here. Maybe I should start marketing it!.....(c; Hmm...custom battery water - $4.99/gallon custom BOAT battery water - $18.95/gallon at West Marine.... That's about right, isn't it? We'll put some pennant flags and a steamship's wheel on the marine bottles to make it "Look Nautical"....It'll sell like hotcakes.... Which captain and boat magazines shall we get to endorse it.......hmmm....... On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:00:54 -0700, "Steve" wrote: Thanks for all the tips on finding distilled water for my batteries. However, I still remain sceptical regarding the quality of the supermarket "distilled water". In one store I found it labeled as "steam distilled" water but no reference to the TDS (total desolved solids). In another store I found two brands of "distilled" water. One label stated that it came for "Portland water system, charcoal filtered, Reverse Osmoses or steam distilation." I many not have the wording exactly, but that "OR" worrys me. Else where on the label it states that it has less than 1ppm solids. The other brand only indicated that it came from a plant in New Hampshire and gave a 800 number. Surprisingly, I called it at 1700 Pac. time and got a real live and helpful person. He had to go check when I as what process was used to produce the "distilled water". Without any prompting, as to what answer I wanted to hear, he came back on the line and told me it was Steam Distilled. However, I neglected to ask if he know what the TDS was for this product. I got the impression that he was just an answering service for the distiller and had to call someone for all technical matters. I purchased a couple gallons of the product that provided the info on TDS (1ppm) but now I'm unsure of how high a TDS I should allow.. I have no idea where to have a sample tested of the other stuff.. Anyone have any idea of what would be exceptable for my $600+ battery bank?? Perhaps I should call Trojan?? BTW. I had several gallon jugs of nice clean rain water. Well, after sitting on the shelf for 2 years, this water developed green algae bloom.. I dumpted it out but later, I realized I could have filtered it through coffee filters. Steve s/v Good Intentions Larry W4CSC 3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right? Larry W4CSC 3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right? |
Battery Water (revisited)
Good point!
"Ron Thornton" wrote in message ... But it makes great coffee. Ron |
Battery Water (revisited)
I usually get the most complements serving homebrew beer. Never
thought of homebrew water. "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... That's the taste of it before carbon filtration. It tastes awful with the other distillates left in it. Everyone compliments me on my homebrew water wherever it's served. They all like the taste. I always come home with empty containers. You don't suppose they're dumping it overboard while I'm asleep, do you??....(c; Pour the distilled through 6" of activated carbon and try it again... On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:11:18 -0400, "Doug Dotson" wrote: I've always found distilled water pretty bland to drink. Not sure DELICIOUS would be my description of water that has no taste :) Doug "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... Distilled water is easy to test. All you need is a common ohmmeter, especially one with a high resistance range (not the cheapest thing Radio Shack sells for $10 like most boaters use). Distilled water has a resistance of infinity, it's an INSULATOR! Broadcast transmitters, like RCA's big UHF TV transmitter with two huge klystron tubes that must be water cooled, put 18,000 VDC on their klystron tube's collector.....inside the boiler where the distilled water is perking away absorbing the energy of the massive dose of electrons crashing headlong into the big copper collector. A meter measures "body current" which shows the leakage through the distilled water back to the big power supply whos transformers look like your neighborhood power company substation. A demineralizer sucks out the copper ions that happen when the tinest impurities in the distilled water eat away at the copper, mostly making copper sulphate, a conductor. In pure distilled water, copper doesn't even discolor because distilled water is very stable. So, all we need to do is take a sample of the "distilled" water you bought and set the ohmmeter on its highest ohm range and put the two test probes down into the water as close together as you can get them without touching them to each other......and the meter should still read INFINITY resistance. Anything less should not be put in a battery. I make about 12 gallons of distilled water in 24 hours with my commercial distiller. Having had 4 kidney stones removed because Charleston water is like a calcium bath, I said enough is enough. Mine is made of porcelain with stainless tubing adn parts and latex surgical hoses to connect the cooled water to the outside world, totally inert. I have a 10,000 volt "Hipot Tester" used to test electrical insulators to test its purity. The Hipot tester current meter at 10KV moves barely perceptibly when two platinum wires are inserted into a glass beaker of my water that are 4" long and 1" apart. The local water test lab says I'm producing better distilled water than they have. I gave them a gallon to use for their tests as a thank you for the water testing. I paid $18 for the distiller, brand new, from a surplus thrift shop who had no idea what it was, the find of a lifetime of dumpster diving. It's retail value is about $900. Distilled water costs about 25 cents per gallon at 8 cents per kilowatt hour of electricity. If you ever saw what Charleston city swampwater looked like after I boil away 24 gallons of H2O from it that's left in my boiler tank, you'd NEVER drink from a drinking fountain or tap again....It's brown like....well, you know....and huge calcium deposits coat everything in the distiller, not my kidneys, thank you! Oh, just for the RO lovers who've been convinced distilling takes out valuable health minerals, it's all a lie. The human body CANNOT use elemental metals to build strong bones and teeth and keep you healthy. Water, in case you haven't peed lately, is the body's FLUSHING WATER and the purer it is, the better it acts as a solvent to flush out the junk from you. ORGANIC calcium, not elemental calcium builds bones. No kidney stones in 5 years, now....(c; If you taste that "distilled water" from the store, you'll notice it tastes like metal dissolved in it. Distilling also distills anything that can be boiled off of the original water....like xylene, benzene, toulene, all the other enes polluting out water supply. Our water tests pretty high, but below the "safe level" for benzene, which comes from airplanes burning JP4 by the billions of gallons per year, I'm told. (see my tagline). This can be easily removed by passing the distilled water from the distiller through a column of activated carbon (not charcoal which introduces pollution). Pure activated carbon is really cheap on a 16 oz container in the fish department of every WalMart in a plastic jug. I think a lifetime supply is about $3. The activated carbon bonds, chemically, with the enes which attach themselves, permanently to the carbon forming new molecules... My system uses a nylon meat baster for a carbon column. Remove the rubber squeeze bulb from the nylon body of the baster and cut a slot in the end of the bulb. Push the pointy end of the baster through the slot through the bulb and let it stick out about an inch below the original bulb's open hole. This makes a plug that holds the baster vertical perfectly in the top of a 5-gallon standard water jug that fits my water cooler. The baster body has a little cone of coffee filter paper pushed into the bottom end from the top to keep the carbon from getting into the jug. Carbon is spooned into the baster on top of this filter cone until it's within 1/2" of the top. The water outlet hose is put in the top of the baster and she's ready to filter a batch of "homebrew". The water that ends up in the jug, now free of all distillable enes is DELICIOUS as well as perfect. The metallic taste of the enes is completely gone because they have been absorbed trickling down through the carbon. For sanitary purposes, the filter cone and carbon are disposed of each time I make a batch and fill my many bottles. Actually the carbon becomes so HOT from this chemical reaction no virus or bacteria could survive. NYLON is necessary because the heat cracked the glass one and melted the plastic basters in less than 5 minutes! But, carbon is so cheap...why take a chance? Well, all my friends get battery water from here. Maybe I should start marketing it!.....(c; Hmm...custom battery water - $4.99/gallon custom BOAT battery water - $18.95/gallon at West Marine.... That's about right, isn't it? We'll put some pennant flags and a steamship's wheel on the marine bottles to make it "Look Nautical"....It'll sell like hotcakes.... Which captain and boat magazines shall we get to endorse it.......hmmm....... On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:00:54 -0700, "Steve" wrote: Thanks for all the tips on finding distilled water for my batteries. However, I still remain sceptical regarding the quality of the supermarket "distilled water". In one store I found it labeled as "steam distilled" water but no reference to the TDS (total desolved solids). In another store I found two brands of "distilled" water. One label stated that it came for "Portland water system, charcoal filtered, Reverse Osmoses or steam distilation." I many not have the wording exactly, but that "OR" worrys me. Else where on the label it states that it has less than 1ppm solids. The other brand only indicated that it came from a plant in New Hampshire and gave a 800 number. Surprisingly, I called it at 1700 Pac. time and got a real live and helpful person. He had to go check when I as what process was used to produce the "distilled water". Without any prompting, as to what answer I wanted to hear, he came back on the line and told me it was Steam Distilled. However, I neglected to ask if he know what the TDS was for this product. I got the impression that he was just an answering service for the distiller and had to call someone for all technical matters. I purchased a couple gallons of the product that provided the info on TDS (1ppm) but now I'm unsure of how high a TDS I should allow.. I have no idea where to have a sample tested of the other stuff.. Anyone have any idea of what would be exceptable for my $600+ battery bank?? Perhaps I should call Trojan?? BTW. I had several gallon jugs of nice clean rain water. Well, after sitting on the shelf for 2 years, this water developed green algae bloom.. I dumpted it out but later, I realized I could have filtered it through coffee filters. Steve s/v Good Intentions Larry W4CSC 3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right? Larry W4CSC 3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right? |
Battery Water (revisited)
It is generally accepted by coffee aficionados that distilled water makes bad coffee.
The optimum water hardness is said to be 150 ppm. Lest you doubt, do a Google group search on alt.coffee, keyword distilled. Or Google "SCAA distilled coffee" -jeff, who is dying because his coffee roaster is out for repairs! "Ron Thornton" wrote in message ... But it makes great coffee. Ron |
Battery Water (revisited)
Well that explains it. I am definitely not a coffee aficionados. I
even like 7/11 coffee. Ron |
Battery Water (revisited)
Really. Haven't we beaten this to death? Steam distilled will be as good as
you can practically get. If you're really anal, get triple distilled deionized HPLC grade water from Fisher Scientific or similar. It'll probably cost $50 a gallon, but hey... it's really pure H2O! "Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message ... Steve, the steam distilled is as good as it gets unless you pay through the nose for laboratory grade USP water. I have been playing with this Hanna TDS meter that I am putting on my watermaker. It came with calibration samples of USP water and a 1000 ppm TDS sample. I calibrated zero ppm with the USP water and 1000 ppm with the other sample then started playing with different samples. The kitchen faucet read 190 ppm. A sample of grocery store distilled water was 15 ppm. Less than 8% of faucet water. Steve wrote: Thanks for all the tips on finding distilled water for my batteries. However, I still remain sceptical regarding the quality of the supermarket "distilled water". In one store I found it labeled as "steam distilled" water but no reference to the TDS (total desolved solids). In another store I found two brands of "distilled" water. One label stated that it came for "Portland water system, charcoal filtered, Reverse Osmoses or steam distilation." I many not have the wording exactly, but that "OR" worrys me. Else where on the label it states that it has less than 1ppm solids. The other brand only indicated that it came from a plant in New Hampshire and gave a 800 number. Surprisingly, I called it at 1700 Pac. time and got a real live and helpful person. He had to go check when I as what process was used to produce the "distilled water". Without any prompting, as to what answer I wanted to hear, he came back on the line and told me it was Steam Distilled. However, I neglected to ask if he know what the TDS was for this product. I got the impression that he was just an answering service for the distiller and had to call someone for all technical matters. I purchased a couple gallons of the product that provided the info on TDS (1ppm) but now I'm unsure of how high a TDS I should allow.. I have no idea where to have a sample tested of the other stuff.. Anyone have any idea of what would be exceptable for my $600+ battery bank?? Perhaps I should call Trojan?? BTW. I had several gallon jugs of nice clean rain water. Well, after sitting on the shelf for 2 years, this water developed green algae bloom.. I dumpted it out but later, I realized I could have filtered it through coffee filters. Steve s/v Good Intentions -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
Battery Water (revisited)
Larry: Do you ever run a mixture of fermented corn squeezin's through that
distillation column? I'd pay for that, especially considering the quality of your system and the carbon filtration! "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... Distilled water is easy to test. All you need is a common ohmmeter, especially one with a high resistance range (not the cheapest thing Radio Shack sells for $10 like most boaters use). Distilled water has a resistance of infinity, it's an INSULATOR! Broadcast transmitters, like RCA's big UHF TV transmitter with two huge klystron tubes that must be water cooled, put 18,000 VDC on their klystron tube's collector.....inside the boiler where the distilled water is perking away absorbing the energy of the massive dose of electrons crashing headlong into the big copper collector. A meter measures "body current" which shows the leakage through the distilled water back to the big power supply whos transformers look like your neighborhood power company substation. A demineralizer sucks out the copper ions that happen when the tinest impurities in the distilled water eat away at the copper, mostly making copper sulphate, a conductor. In pure distilled water, copper doesn't even discolor because distilled water is very stable. So, all we need to do is take a sample of the "distilled" water you bought and set the ohmmeter on its highest ohm range and put the two test probes down into the water as close together as you can get them without touching them to each other......and the meter should still read INFINITY resistance. Anything less should not be put in a battery. I make about 12 gallons of distilled water in 24 hours with my commercial distiller. Having had 4 kidney stones removed because Charleston water is like a calcium bath, I said enough is enough. Mine is made of porcelain with stainless tubing adn parts and latex surgical hoses to connect the cooled water to the outside world, totally inert. I have a 10,000 volt "Hipot Tester" used to test electrical insulators to test its purity. The Hipot tester current meter at 10KV moves barely perceptibly when two platinum wires are inserted into a glass beaker of my water that are 4" long and 1" apart. The local water test lab says I'm producing better distilled water than they have. I gave them a gallon to use for their tests as a thank you for the water testing. I paid $18 for the distiller, brand new, from a surplus thrift shop who had no idea what it was, the find of a lifetime of dumpster diving. It's retail value is about $900. Distilled water costs about 25 cents per gallon at 8 cents per kilowatt hour of electricity. If you ever saw what Charleston city swampwater looked like after I boil away 24 gallons of H2O from it that's left in my boiler tank, you'd NEVER drink from a drinking fountain or tap again....It's brown like....well, you know....and huge calcium deposits coat everything in the distiller, not my kidneys, thank you! Oh, just for the RO lovers who've been convinced distilling takes out valuable health minerals, it's all a lie. The human body CANNOT use elemental metals to build strong bones and teeth and keep you healthy. Water, in case you haven't peed lately, is the body's FLUSHING WATER and the purer it is, the better it acts as a solvent to flush out the junk from you. ORGANIC calcium, not elemental calcium builds bones. No kidney stones in 5 years, now....(c; If you taste that "distilled water" from the store, you'll notice it tastes like metal dissolved in it. Distilling also distills anything that can be boiled off of the original water....like xylene, benzene, toulene, all the other enes polluting out water supply. Our water tests pretty high, but below the "safe level" for benzene, which comes from airplanes burning JP4 by the billions of gallons per year, I'm told. (see my tagline). This can be easily removed by passing the distilled water from the distiller through a column of activated carbon (not charcoal which introduces pollution). Pure activated carbon is really cheap on a 16 oz container in the fish department of every WalMart in a plastic jug. I think a lifetime supply is about $3. The activated carbon bonds, chemically, with the enes which attach themselves, permanently to the carbon forming new molecules... My system uses a nylon meat baster for a carbon column. Remove the rubber squeeze bulb from the nylon body of the baster and cut a slot in the end of the bulb. Push the pointy end of the baster through the slot through the bulb and let it stick out about an inch below the original bulb's open hole. This makes a plug that holds the baster vertical perfectly in the top of a 5-gallon standard water jug that fits my water cooler. The baster body has a little cone of coffee filter paper pushed into the bottom end from the top to keep the carbon from getting into the jug. Carbon is spooned into the baster on top of this filter cone until it's within 1/2" of the top. The water outlet hose is put in the top of the baster and she's ready to filter a batch of "homebrew". The water that ends up in the jug, now free of all distillable enes is DELICIOUS as well as perfect. The metallic taste of the enes is completely gone because they have been absorbed trickling down through the carbon. For sanitary purposes, the filter cone and carbon are disposed of each time I make a batch and fill my many bottles. Actually the carbon becomes so HOT from this chemical reaction no virus or bacteria could survive. NYLON is necessary because the heat cracked the glass one and melted the plastic basters in less than 5 minutes! But, carbon is so cheap...why take a chance? Well, all my friends get battery water from here. Maybe I should start marketing it!.....(c; Hmm...custom battery water - $4.99/gallon custom BOAT battery water - $18.95/gallon at West Marine.... That's about right, isn't it? We'll put some pennant flags and a steamship's wheel on the marine bottles to make it "Look Nautical"....It'll sell like hotcakes.... Which captain and boat magazines shall we get to endorse it.......hmmm....... On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:00:54 -0700, "Steve" wrote: Thanks for all the tips on finding distilled water for my batteries. However, I still remain sceptical regarding the quality of the supermarket "distilled water". In one store I found it labeled as "steam distilled" water but no reference to the TDS (total desolved solids). In another store I found two brands of "distilled" water. One label stated that it came for "Portland water system, charcoal filtered, Reverse Osmoses or steam distilation." I many not have the wording exactly, but that "OR" worrys me. Else where on the label it states that it has less than 1ppm solids. The other brand only indicated that it came from a plant in New Hampshire and gave a 800 number. Surprisingly, I called it at 1700 Pac. time and got a real live and helpful person. He had to go check when I as what process was used to produce the "distilled water". Without any prompting, as to what answer I wanted to hear, he came back on the line and told me it was Steam Distilled. However, I neglected to ask if he know what the TDS was for this product. I got the impression that he was just an answering service for the distiller and had to call someone for all technical matters. I purchased a couple gallons of the product that provided the info on TDS (1ppm) but now I'm unsure of how high a TDS I should allow.. I have no idea where to have a sample tested of the other stuff.. Anyone have any idea of what would be exceptable for my $600+ battery bank?? Perhaps I should call Trojan?? BTW. I had several gallon jugs of nice clean rain water. Well, after sitting on the shelf for 2 years, this water developed green algae bloom.. I dumpted it out but later, I realized I could have filtered it through coffee filters. Steve s/v Good Intentions Larry W4CSC 3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right? |
Battery Water (revisited)
On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:26:31 -0500, "Keith"
wrote: Larry: Do you ever run a mixture of fermented corn squeezin's through that distillation column? I'd pay for that, especially considering the quality of your system and the carbon filtration! No....(c; Larry W4CSC 3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right? |
Battery Water (revisited)
On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:26:31 -0500, "Keith"
wrote: Larry: Do you ever run a mixture of fermented corn squeezin's through that distillation column? I'd pay for that, especially considering the quality of your system and the carbon filtration! Besides, we have South Carolinians who have specialized in that product for 300 years. They've actually perfected it....(c; Larry W4CSC 3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right? |
Battery Water (revisited)
Do those so called catalytic battery caps actually work? The are supposed to
use a catalyst recombine outgassing molecules back into H2O which drips back into the battery cell. I am sceptical. |
Battery Water (revisited)
I know several folks that use them and wouldn't be without them.
Hydrocaps I think they are called. I just stick with sealed batteries (AGM) and avoid the entire issue. Doug "BOEING377" wrote in message ... Do those so called catalytic battery caps actually work? The are supposed to use a catalyst recombine outgassing molecules back into H2O which drips back into the battery cell. I am sceptical. |
Battery Water (revisited)
Keith wrote:
Really. Haven't we beaten this to death? Steam distilled will be as good as you can practically get. If you're really anal, get triple distilled deionized HPLC grade water from Fisher Scientific or similar. It'll probably cost $50 a gallon, but hey... it's really pure H2O! I couldn't afford to run my nuclear water distillery anymore, so I sold it and with the proceeds bought three AGM batteries. -- * * * email sent to will *never* get to me. |
Battery Water (revisited)
|
Battery Water (revisited)
Dunno, but they do get good reviews.
"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... On 30 Sep 2003 22:21:31 GMT, (BOEING377) wrote: Do those so called catalytic battery caps actually work? The are supposed to use a catalyst recombine outgassing molecules back into H2O which drips back into the battery cell. I am sceptical. Too funny. The gas is hydrogen. Wonder how they get it to combine with oxygen without a hydrogen explosion? Amazing science, isn't it? Ever see an idiot dropping aspirin into a dead battery?.....(c; I 'spoze the caps might catch evaporating water....but regular caps do that.... Thanks for the chuckle. Larry W4CSC 3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right? |
Battery Water (revisited)
They do work and work well. We use them on our floor polishers because
the custodians are bad about checking water levels before putting them on the charger. These L16s (28 of them) get discharged below 50% every night and the chargers are heavy duty Triplite 3 stage commercial units. The maintenance supervisors check the level every month and acording to their logs only add water occasionally. Before we went to Hydrocaps he had to check them twice a week. I believe there is a little strip of platinum in the cap that acts as a catalyst to recombine the hydrogen with oxygen before it vents. You do have to remove them before equalizing or they will get overwhelmed and you have to take care not to get acid up inside them. Cost wise I believe they were well worth it. We paid right at $600 for 90 of them and our battery replacement costs have been cut in half over the 3 years we have used them. BTW, we use Kroger and Publix distilled water. :-) BOEING377 wrote: Do those so called catalytic battery caps actually work? The are supposed to use a catalyst recombine outgassing molecules back into H2O which drips back into the battery cell. I am sceptical. -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
Battery Water (revisited)
"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
... On 30 Sep 2003 22:21:31 GMT, (BOEING377) wrote: Do those so called catalytic battery caps actually work? The are supposed to use a catalyst recombine outgassing molecules back into H2O which drips back into the battery cell. I am sceptical. Too funny. The gas is hydrogen. Wonder how they get it to combine with oxygen without a hydrogen explosion? Amazing science, isn't it? Just basic chemistry. Use the right catalyst and you get a controlled reaction instead of an explosion. Meindert |
Battery Water (revisited)
On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:12:54 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote: Dunno, but they do get good reviews. Boat reviews are mostly just sales brochures designed to move inventory. There aren't many places, like David Pascoe's, that will just say something really sucks when it really sucks. I've even seen excellent reviews on Bayliner's crap with the riveted hatches put on crooked...... Larry W4CSC 3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right? |
Battery Water (revisited)
On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 08:23:48 +0200, "Meindert Sprang"
wrote: Just basic chemistry. Use the right catalyst and you get a controlled reaction instead of an explosion. Meindert I'll play along for a while. What catalyst will combine hydrogen and oxygen without an explosion? I'm sure the submarine navies of the world will be interested in that product. They spend millions venting hydrogen from the battery banks in the bilges. Larry W4CSC 3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right? |
Battery Water (revisited)
Does anyone know how this miracle works? How does hydrogen passing
platinum produce water at room temperature? Where does the oxygen come from? Air vents out of the cell as soon as hydrogen displaces it, leaving pure hydrogen. Now let's look at batteries....... Run down your deep cycle battery to 11 volts. Put the charger on at 10 or 20 A and wait 20 minutes for it to charge a while. Open up the cells and look inside. Notice it's not "perking" away? Why? A long time ago, lead plates in lead-acid batteries was supported by a grid of antimony built into the plates. Lead is too soft to hold itself up in thin sheets. During charging, the antimony reacted with the water, splitting up the hydrogen and oxygen and causing the hydrogen to vent out of the batteries in LARGE amounts, causing an awful explosion hazard as it had to be vented out of the batteries. WW2 subs had bad hydrogen problems in their battery compartments and many died from the explosions. Modern batteries no long use antimony to support the lead dioxide plates. The alloys used now react much less and produce almost no gas. (Notice the maintenance-free battery in your car? Why doesn't it gas like hell and use lots of water?) Great information is available on: http://www.vonwentzel.net/Battery/00.Glossary/ http://www.flex.com/~kalepa/technotes.htm http://www.4unique.com/battery/battery_tutorial.htm http://www.ctts.nrel.gov/BTM/pdfs/evs_17paper.pdf Most of the outgassing is caused by CHARGING TOO FAST...charging it faster than it can chemically react. Charge them as slow as you can.....with the latest pulse technology is nice, too! On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:18:26 -0400, Glenn Ashmore wrote: They do work and work well. We use them on our floor polishers because the custodians are bad about checking water levels before putting them on the charger. These L16s (28 of them) get discharged below 50% every night and the chargers are heavy duty Triplite 3 stage commercial units. The maintenance supervisors check the level every month and acording to their logs only add water occasionally. Before we went to Hydrocaps he had to check them twice a week. I believe there is a little strip of platinum in the cap that acts as a catalyst to recombine the hydrogen with oxygen before it vents. You do have to remove them before equalizing or they will get overwhelmed and you have to take care not to get acid up inside them. Cost wise I believe they were well worth it. We paid right at $600 for 90 of them and our battery replacement costs have been cut in half over the 3 years we have used them. BTW, we use Kroger and Publix distilled water. :-) BOEING377 wrote: Do those so called catalytic battery caps actually work? The are supposed to use a catalyst recombine outgassing molecules back into H2O which drips back into the battery cell. I am sceptical. -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com Larry W4CSC 3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right? |
Battery Water (revisited)
Google "hydrogen catalyst" and you'll find links like:
http://www.news.wisc.edu/view.html?get=8740 "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 08:23:48 +0200, "Meindert Sprang" wrote: Just basic chemistry. Use the right catalyst and you get a controlled reaction instead of an explosion. Meindert I'll play along for a while. What catalyst will combine hydrogen and oxygen without an explosion? I'm sure the submarine navies of the world will be interested in that product. They spend millions venting hydrogen from the battery banks in the bilges. Larry W4CSC 3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right? |
Battery Water (revisited)
Doug Dotson wrote:
Dunno, but they do get good reviews. A company selling devices guaranteed to increase your motorcycle's HP and mileage set up a demo booth at a major rally and one of the foremost cruising bike rags paid them several $100 to install a set in a bike they were testing. Sure enough, they got more apparent power and measured a 10% increase in mileage and gave the device a stunning review. Naturally, the company hyped that report to sell 1000s of their devices. Meanwhile, performance oriented rags said "BS!", if they worked why didn't mfgr.s like Honda use them to whup their rivals on the track? One rag did a before-after dyno test that proved the things actually cut power and mileage. Miffed, the first rag decided to dupe that test. Since the devices were already in their bike they did runs with them first. Then they tried to remove them and guess what - to their everlasting chagrin the crooks selling them had never installed them and they were left to explain why an *unchanged* bike had made more power and used less gas!! At least they were honest enough to admit they'd been duped - which is more than most will do. I've been leery of reviews ever since .... |
Battery Water (revisited)
The key word here is "recombinant". The oxygen that was originally
bound to the hydrogen does not just cease to exist. The caps just recombine what was in the battery to begin with. The catylist just incourages them to join together. The process is slow and continuous so there is no actual fire but it does produce heat. That is why you have to remove the caps when equalizing. The gas is produced at a much higher rate when equalizing so the reaction is faster and enough heat is generated to melt the caps and the case around the fill holes. The whole purpose of high performance charging systems with 3 stage regulators is to get the maximum charge into the bank in the least amount of time. Therefore it has to charge the bank at a rate very close to the gassing point. While antimony not used in Gel and AGM batteries it is still used in wet cell batteries. "No maintenance" batteries, more properly called Valve Regulated Lead Acid are maintained under from 1 to 4 PSI The pressure encourages recombination of most of the gasses but once the level drops to low they are trash. They are OK for starting batteries that never get bulk charged but suffer a quick and painfull death as deep cycles. No question that AGMs are the future of lead acid batteries but right now when it comes to total amps per dollar good old wet cell L16s and golf cart batteries have them beat hands down. BTW, you should read the links you posted. Everything I have said is verified in them. :-) Larry W4CSC wrote: Does anyone know how this miracle works? How does hydrogen passing platinum produce water at room temperature? Where does the oxygen come from? Air vents out of the cell as soon as hydrogen displaces it, leaving pure hydrogen. Now let's look at batteries....... Run down your deep cycle battery to 11 volts. Put the charger on at 10 or 20 A and wait 20 minutes for it to charge a while. Open up the cells and look inside. Notice it's not "perking" away? Why? A long time ago, lead plates in lead-acid batteries was supported by a grid of antimony built into the plates. Lead is too soft to hold itself up in thin sheets. During charging, the antimony reacted with the water, splitting up the hydrogen and oxygen and causing the hydrogen to vent out of the batteries in LARGE amounts, causing an awful explosion hazard as it had to be vented out of the batteries. WW2 subs had bad hydrogen problems in their battery compartments and many died from the explosions. Modern batteries no long use antimony to support the lead dioxide plates. The alloys used now react much less and produce almost no gas. (Notice the maintenance-free battery in your car? Why doesn't it gas like hell and use lots of water?) Great information is available on: http://www.vonwentzel.net/Battery/00.Glossary/ http://www.flex.com/~kalepa/technotes.htm http://www.4unique.com/battery/battery_tutorial.htm http://www.ctts.nrel.gov/BTM/pdfs/evs_17paper.pdf Most of the outgassing is caused by CHARGING TOO FAST...charging it faster than it can chemically react. Charge them as slow as you can.....with the latest pulse technology is nice, too! -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
Battery Water (revisited)
"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
... On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 08:23:48 +0200, "Meindert Sprang" wrote: Just basic chemistry. Use the right catalyst and you get a controlled reaction instead of an explosion. Meindert I'll play along for a while. What catalyst will combine hydrogen and oxygen without an explosion? The one that is used in fuel cells, for instance. Meindert |
Battery Water (revisited)
On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 09:57:33 -0400, "Jeff Morris"
jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote: Google "hydrogen catalyst" and you'll find links like: http://www.news.wisc.edu/view.html?get=8740 This article is about turning hydrocarbons, rich in hydrogen into hydrogen, which is logical. But, this miracle-in-the-cap turns hydrogen, which contains no oxygen, into water! I'm still baffled how it turns hydrogen into water when there is no oxygen to do it! It's amazing! The word "Ancient Alchemist" comes to mind.....(c; Larry W4CSC 3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right? |
Battery Water (revisited)
"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
... On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 09:57:33 -0400, "Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote: Google "hydrogen catalyst" and you'll find links like: http://www.news.wisc.edu/view.html?get=8740 This article is about turning hydrocarbons, rich in hydrogen into hydrogen, which is logical. But, this miracle-in-the-cap turns hydrogen, which contains no oxygen, into water! I'm still baffled how it turns hydrogen into water when there is no oxygen to do it! It's amazing! The word "Ancient Alchemist" comes to mind.....(c; Look at http://www.fuelcells.org/whatis.htm There you see it explained. And for the battery caps: hydrogen comes from the inside and oxygen is present on both the inside as the outside of the battery. Meindert |
Battery Water (revisited)
Sorry, I grabbed the wrong link. You might try this one:
http://www.eere.energy.gov/RE/hydrogen_fuel_cells.html Here's Steve Dashew's review: http://www.setsail.com/c_central/techtalk/hydrocap.html Why do you say there's no Oxygen? Where does the Hydrogen come from? As far as I know, my simple Trojan golf cart batteries have no vent other than the filler cap, so the oxygen and hydrogen must escape out the same hole. One thing I don't know is what percentage of the water loss is evaporation and how much is from hydrogen/oxygen venting. The Hydrocaps can help for both causes, though they shouldn't be used while equalizing. "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 09:57:33 -0400, "Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote: Google "hydrogen catalyst" and you'll find links like: http://www.news.wisc.edu/view.html?get=8740 This article is about turning hydrocarbons, rich in hydrogen into hydrogen, which is logical. But, this miracle-in-the-cap turns hydrogen, which contains no oxygen, into water! I'm still baffled how it turns hydrogen into water when there is no oxygen to do it! It's amazing! The word "Ancient Alchemist" comes to mind.....(c; Larry W4CSC 3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right? |
Battery Water (revisited)
Larry W4CSC wrote: This article is about turning hydrocarbons, rich in hydrogen into hydrogen, which is logical. But, this miracle-in-the-cap turns hydrogen, which contains no oxygen, into water! I'm still baffled how it turns hydrogen into water when there is no oxygen to do it! It's amazing! The word "Ancient Alchemist" comes to mind.....(c; Are you are saying that the oxygen that was originally tied to the hydrogen that is now free just vanished into nothingness? Not THAT's Alchemy! (or maybe "Modern Physyics".) :-) Does it not seem logical that an oxygen molecule that has happily cohabitated with a couple of hydrogen molecules and suddenly has them stripped away is not going to sit quietly by and let the hydrogen slip out of the battery alone? Both of them need to share electrons with somebody and all the platinum does is incourage them to reconcile. -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
Battery Water (revisited)
I'm referring to folks that have them and use them.
"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:12:54 -0400, "Doug Dotson" wrote: Dunno, but they do get good reviews. Boat reviews are mostly just sales brochures designed to move inventory. There aren't many places, like David Pascoe's, that will just say something really sucks when it really sucks. I've even seen excellent reviews on Bayliner's crap with the riveted hatches put on crooked...... Larry W4CSC 3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right? |
Battery Water (revisited)
I was referring to cruisers that have talked to
that have them. Sorry, I didn't make that clear. Doug "Vito" wrote in message ... Doug Dotson wrote: Dunno, but they do get good reviews. A company selling devices guaranteed to increase your motorcycle's HP and mileage set up a demo booth at a major rally and one of the foremost cruising bike rags paid them several $100 to install a set in a bike they were testing. Sure enough, they got more apparent power and measured a 10% increase in mileage and gave the device a stunning review. Naturally, the company hyped that report to sell 1000s of their devices. Meanwhile, performance oriented rags said "BS!", if they worked why didn't mfgr.s like Honda use them to whup their rivals on the track? One rag did a before-after dyno test that proved the things actually cut power and mileage. Miffed, the first rag decided to dupe that test. Since the devices were already in their bike they did runs with them first. Then they tried to remove them and guess what - to their everlasting chagrin the crooks selling them had never installed them and they were left to explain why an *unchanged* bike had made more power and used less gas!! At least they were honest enough to admit they'd been duped - which is more than most will do. I've been leery of reviews ever since .... |
Battery Water (revisited)
BOEING377 wrote:
Do those so called catalytic battery caps actually work? The are supposed to use a catalyst recombine outgassing molecules back into H2O which drips back into the battery cell. I am sceptical. They work very well. We used them on batteries installed in manned submersibles where function and reliability was, as you may imagine, critical. Rick |
Battery Water (revisited)
Larry W4CSC wrote:
I 'spoze the caps might catch evaporating water....but regular caps do that.... Thanks for the chuckle. This coming from a guy with a signature like that below? You really do need another layer of foil in that helmet, Larry. 3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right? Now THAT rates a chuckle. Rick |
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