Battery Water (revisited)
 

No, I'm saying the Oxygen is turned into PbO2, Lead Dioxide which is
deposited back on one of the plates in the charging process....we
hope.

I didn't know oxygen GAS bubbles off.....just Hydrogen.

You learn something on Usenet every 8 hours.....(c;



On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 13:32:27 -0400, Glenn Ashmore
wrote:



Larry W4CSC wrote:

This article is about turning hydrocarbons, rich in hydrogen into
hydrogen, which is logical. But, this miracle-in-the-cap turns
hydrogen, which contains no oxygen, into water! I'm still baffled how
it turns hydrogen into water when there is no oxygen to do it! It's
amazing!

The word "Ancient Alchemist" comes to mind.....(c;

Are you are saying that the oxygen that was originally tied to the
hydrogen that is now free just vanished into nothingness? Not THAT's
Alchemy! (or maybe "Modern Physyics".) :-)

Does it not seem logical that an oxygen molecule that has happily
cohabitated with a couple of hydrogen molecules and suddenly has them
stripped away is not going to sit quietly by and let the hydrogen slip
out of the battery alone? Both of them need to share electrons with
somebody and all the platinum does is incourage them to reconcile.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com



Larry W4CSC

3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million
gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air
conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right?

Battery Water (revisited)
 

Larry,

In addition to the chemistry going on to make the battery work, there
is also electrolysis going on which produces hydrogen and oxygen.

Ron

Battery Water (revisited)
 

I looked into the HydroCaps, from my battery wholesaler.

I seem to remember that the price was about $12 each. (4batt. X 3cells X $12
= $144)

If the price wasn't enough to turn me off, the fact that these things are
about 3 inches tall, above the battery top.. I just didn't have the room for
them since the batteries were already 17 inches tall.

BTW. I finally filled my batteries yesterday and it too a gallon of water
($.58/gal) and this was after one year in service with 3 months of heavy use
this summer. A gallon may seem like a lot of water, but these batteries
(L-16) have a lot of volume above the plates. So it was about 11 oz. per
cell.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

Battery Water (revisited)
 

Steve,

You should really check the water more often. Losing so much
water can't be very good for the batteries. Not sure what the
particulars are for increasing the acid concentration of the
electrolyte. I'm sure someone will enlighten us.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Steve" wrote in message
...
I looked into the HydroCaps, from my battery wholesaler.

I seem to remember that the price was about $12 each. (4batt. X 3cells X
$12
= $144)

If the price wasn't enough to turn me off, the fact that these things are
about 3 inches tall, above the battery top.. I just didn't have the room
for
them since the batteries were already 17 inches tall.

BTW. I finally filled my batteries yesterday and it too a gallon of water
($.58/gal) and this was after one year in service with 3 months of heavy
use
this summer. A gallon may seem like a lot of water, but these batteries
(L-16) have a lot of volume above the plates. So it was about 11 oz. per
cell.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

Battery Water (revisited)
 

YOu really should check them more often. Around here if a log showed
more than 6 oz being added to a cell the maintenance manager would be
sending our memos for a month. :-)

Steve wrote:
I looked into the HydroCaps, from my battery wholesaler.

I seem to remember that the price was about $12 each. (4batt. X 3cells X $12
= $144)

If the price wasn't enough to turn me off, the fact that these things are
about 3 inches tall, above the battery top.. I just didn't have the room for
them since the batteries were already 17 inches tall.

BTW. I finally filled my batteries yesterday and it too a gallon of water
($.58/gal) and this was after one year in service with 3 months of heavy use
this summer. A gallon may seem like a lot of water, but these batteries
(L-16) have a lot of volume above the plates. So it was about 11 oz. per
cell.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions




--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Battery Water (revisited)
 

Your both right..

I did check the batteries on a weekly basis and the water level was very
close to where if was when I purchased and installed the batteries.

Until I started adding water, I didn't realize how much they were down. More
volume below the fill neck indicator slots than I imagined.

In the future I will top them up before they get that low.

Thanks.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

Battery Water (revisited)
 

"Steve" wrote
Until I started adding water, I didn't realize how much they were down. More
volume below the fill neck indicator slots than I imagined.

As long as the plates remain immersed, including when the boat is
heeled (for days on one tack) if batteries are oriented fore and aft,
the only damage low water levels cause is a result of the slight
increase in concentration of the sulfuric acid; and that is minor.

I peek at the electrolyte levels every few weeks (easy access) and
fill when they are halfway down from the slots. About a liter per 12v
T105 bank.

Battery Water (revisited)
 

I built a retainer right next to the battery boxes for one of those
black plastic battery fillers. For you younger guys that is an artifact
once found in those extinct institutions called "Full service gas
stations". It holds two quarts of distilled water and you just pop a
cap, stick it in and it tops off the cell to the right level.

Mark wrote:
"Steve" wrote

Until I started adding water, I didn't realize how much they were down. More
volume below the fill neck indicator slots than I imagined.


As long as the plates remain immersed, including when the boat is
heeled (for days on one tack) if batteries are oriented fore and aft,
the only damage low water levels cause is a result of the slight
increase in concentration of the sulfuric acid; and that is minor.

I peek at the electrolyte levels every few weeks (easy access) and
fill when they are halfway down from the slots. About a liter per 12v
T105 bank.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Battery Water (revisited)
 

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 08:52:16 -0400, Glenn Ashmore
tempted fate with:

I built a retainer right next to the battery boxes for one of those
black plastic battery fillers. For you younger guys that is an artifact
once found in those extinct institutions called "Full service gas
stations". It holds two quarts of distilled water and you just pop a
cap, stick it in and it tops off the cell to the right level.

Cripes, where'd you find that? I'm tired of spilling water from those
little squeeze bulb thingys that hold about an ounce and drip half of
it onto the top of the battery.


Glen "Wiley" Wilson usenet1 SPAMNIX at worldwidewiley dot com
To reply, lose the capitals and do the obvious.

Take a look at cpRepeater, an NMEA data integrator, repeater, and
logger at http://www.worldwidewiley.com/

Battery Water (revisited)
 

Cripes, where'd you find that? I'm tired of spilling water from those
little squeeze bulb thingys that hold about an ounce and drip half of
it onto the top of the battery.

Keep a look out for a SnapOn or Mac Tools truck. If they don't have
one on the truck, they can bring one the next trip. Also check out one
of the older parts houses. The new ones are all staffed by kids that
woouldn't know what a battery filler was. We have one on the boat
and another in the motorhome, because when it was needed, it was
always in the othe place.

Leanne
S/V Fundy

Battery Water (revisited)
 

I found it at an old style auto supply distributor. The old kind with
belts of all kinds hanging on the walls, 2" of dust on everything and
Mathusala working on a big chaw of tobakee behind the counter. :-)

I did find them on the web though at several places. Here is one:
http://www.widgets.ws/prod/AutoBarnc...ry-Filler.html

Glen Wilson wrote:

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 08:52:16 -0400, Glenn Ashmore
tempted fate with:


I built a retainer right next to the battery boxes for one of those
black plastic battery fillers. For you younger guys that is an artifact
once found in those extinct institutions called "Full service gas
stations". It holds two quarts of distilled water and you just pop a
cap, stick it in and it tops off the cell to the right level.


Cripes, where'd you find that? I'm tired of spilling water from those
little squeeze bulb thingys that hold about an ounce and drip half of
it onto the top of the battery.


Glen "Wiley" Wilson usenet1 SPAMNIX at worldwidewiley dot com
To reply, lose the capitals and do the obvious.

Take a look at cpRepeater, an NMEA data integrator, repeater, and
logger at http://www.worldwidewiley.com/

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Battery Water (revisited)
 

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 15:59:50 GMT, "Glen Wiley Wilson"
wrote:

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 08:52:16 -0400, Glenn Ashmore
tempted fate with:

I built a retainer right next to the battery boxes for one of those
black plastic battery fillers. For you younger guys that is an artifact
once found in those extinct institutions called "Full service gas
stations". It holds two quarts of distilled water and you just pop a
cap, stick it in and it tops off the cell to the right level.

Cripes, where'd you find that? I'm tired of spilling water from those
little squeeze bulb thingys that hold about an ounce and drip half of
it onto the top of the battery.

I use one of those 1 litre water bottles with a pull valve on the cap.
Don't spill too much with it.


--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca

Battery Water (revisited)
 

JC Whitney has them for about $15 each...get some dock mates together and
order more than one so that the shipping and handling cost gets reduced.

Regards-
Charlie


"Glen Wiley Wilson" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 08:52:16 -0400, Glenn Ashmore
tempted fate with:

I built a retainer right next to the battery boxes for one of those
black plastic battery fillers. For you younger guys that is an artifact
once found in those extinct institutions called "Full service gas
stations". It holds two quarts of distilled water and you just pop a
cap, stick it in and it tops off the cell to the right level.

Cripes, where'd you find that? I'm tired of spilling water from those
little squeeze bulb thingys that hold about an ounce and drip half of
it onto the top of the battery.


Glen "Wiley" Wilson usenet1 SPAMNIX at worldwidewiley dot com
To reply, lose the capitals and do the obvious.

Take a look at cpRepeater, an NMEA data integrator, repeater, and
logger at http://www.worldwidewiley.com/

Battery Water (revisited)
 

You can get one at pretty much any auto parts house.

"Glen Wiley Wilson" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 08:52:16 -0400, Glenn Ashmore
tempted fate with:

I built a retainer right next to the battery boxes for one of those
black plastic battery fillers. For you younger guys that is an artifact
once found in those extinct institutions called "Full service gas
stations". It holds two quarts of distilled water and you just pop a
cap, stick it in and it tops off the cell to the right level.

Cripes, where'd you find that? I'm tired of spilling water from those
little squeeze bulb thingys that hold about an ounce and drip half of
it onto the top of the battery.


Glen "Wiley" Wilson usenet1 SPAMNIX at worldwidewiley dot com
To reply, lose the capitals and do the obvious.

Take a look at cpRepeater, an NMEA data integrator, repeater, and
logger at http://www.worldwidewiley.com/

Battery Water (revisited)
 

On 30 Sep 2003 22:21:31 GMT, (BOEING377) wrote:

Do those so called catalytic battery caps actually work? The are supposed to
use a catalyst recombine outgassing molecules back into H2O which drips back
into the battery cell. I am sceptical.

I think it's in Calder's boat maitainence book where he says they work
but you should remove them before equilizing your wet-cell batteries
because of the pressure buildup.
Mark Williams

Battery Water (revisited)
 

Maynard G. Krebbs wrote:
On 30 Sep 2003 22:21:31 GMT, (BOEING377) wrote:


Do those so called catalytic battery caps actually work? The are supposed to
use a catalyst recombine outgassing molecules back into H2O which drips back
into the battery cell. I am sceptical.


I think it's in Calder's boat maitainence book where he says they work
but you should remove them before equilizing your wet-cell batteries
because of the pressure buildup.

The Hydrocaps are basically a large baffeled cap with a small piece of a
catylist in it. The catylist makes the hydrogen recombine with oxygen.
The reaction produces water which drips back into the battery and some
heat. The hydrogen in the water takes up a lot less space than the
hydrogen gas so the pressure inside the battery is slightly lower than
the air outside. This pulls more air in through the baffels so that
there is more oxygen to be combined with the outgassing hydrogen.

Like I said, the reaction produces heat. During normal charging the
heat is radiated off the fins on the caps but during equalizing the
battery produces a LOT more hydrogen. When all that extra hydrogen
starts recombining the caps can get hot enough to melt.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Battery Water (revisited)
 

Surrette, says that they work fine and solve all problems, even during
equalization. Certainly if they don't work during equalization, they're
worth less (not "worthless", just "worth less").

I guess I trust Surrette -- the family has been making boat batteries for a
long time -- but I'll still have a vent above the battery box. I saw a
Hinckley 70 in Bermuda in 1996 that was going back to Maine to be repaired
after a battery explosion. They were gel cells, mounted under a bunk, with
no vent. Wasn't a pretty sight. Lucky there was no one in the stateroom at
the time. Even gel cells need venting.


--
Jim Woodward
www.mvFintry.com


...
"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:ejgrb.12352$62.2320@lakeread04...


Maynard G. Krebbs wrote:
On 30 Sep 2003 22:21:31 GMT, (BOEING377) wrote:


Do those so called catalytic battery caps actually work? The are
supposed to
use a catalyst recombine outgassing molecules back into H2O which drips
back
into the battery cell. I am sceptical.


I think it's in Calder's boat maitainence book where he says they work
but you should remove them before equilizing your wet-cell batteries
because of the pressure buildup.

The Hydrocaps are basically a large baffeled cap with a small piece of a
catylist in it. The catylist makes the hydrogen recombine with oxygen.
The reaction produces water which drips back into the battery and some
heat. The hydrogen in the water takes up a lot less space than the
hydrogen gas so the pressure inside the battery is slightly lower than
the air outside. This pulls more air in through the baffels so that
there is more oxygen to be combined with the outgassing hydrogen.

Like I said, the reaction produces heat. During normal charging the
heat is radiated off the fins on the caps but during equalizing the
battery produces a LOT more hydrogen. When all that extra hydrogen
starts recombining the caps can get hot enough to melt.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Battery Water (revisited)
 

Interesting. George Peroni at Hydrocap says to remove them before
equalizing. If they get to hot to touch either a cell is bad or you are
charging to hard. Peroni is an odd bird. If you both have the time he
will talk your ears off. Reminds me a lot of Mr. Surrette. I have had
the privilege of receiving sermons from both. :-)

Peroni takes a different position about equalizing. He claims that it
is not needed with modern 3 stage chargers and actually reduce service
life.

Jim Woodward wrote:

Surrette, says that they work fine and solve all problems, even during
equalization. Certainly if they don't work during equalization, they're
worth less (not "worthless", just "worth less").

I guess I trust Surrette -- the family has been making boat batteries for a
long time -- but I'll still have a vent above the battery box. I saw a
Hinckley 70 in Bermuda in 1996 that was going back to Maine to be repaired
after a battery explosion. They were gel cells, mounted under a bunk, with
no vent. Wasn't a pretty sight. Lucky there was no one in the stateroom at
the time. Even gel cells need venting.



--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Battery Water (revisited)
 

This was old man Surrette's son, IIRC, but they were cast out of the same
mold. Maybe it's genetic?

I only know what I read in Nigel Calder and learn from conversations with
people like Surrette and here. I certainly don't equalize blindly, only if
the hydrometer or a voltage test tells me that the cell voltages are
unequal.

It seems illogical, though, to put on caps to conserve precious distilled
water and then take them off for an operation that you know wastes a lot of
it. (Distilled water is easy to get in the USA, but try finding it in the
boonies....)


--
Jim Woodward
www.mvFintry.com


..
"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:K3srb.12618$62.7550@lakeread04...
Interesting. George Peroni at Hydrocap says to remove them before
equalizing. If they get to hot to touch either a cell is bad or you are
charging to hard. Peroni is an odd bird. If you both have the time he
will talk your ears off. Reminds me a lot of Mr. Surrette. I have had
the privilege of receiving sermons from both. :-)

Peroni takes a different position about equalizing. He claims that it
is not needed with modern 3 stage chargers and actually reduce service
life.

Jim Woodward wrote:

Surrette, says that they work fine and solve all problems, even during
equalization. Certainly if they don't work during equalization, they're
worth less (not "worthless", just "worth less").

I guess I trust Surrette -- the family has been making boat batteries
for a
long time -- but I'll still have a vent above the battery box. I saw a
Hinckley 70 in Bermuda in 1996 that was going back to Maine to be
repaired
after a battery explosion. They were gel cells, mounted under a bunk,
with
no vent. Wasn't a pretty sight. Lucky there was no one in the stateroom
at
the time. Even gel cells need venting.



--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Battery Water (revisited)
 

try rainwater, try carrying 2 gals of distilled water, try stream
water in rural areas, try carrying a handheld tds meter to test all
your water even ro watermaker water. I've been all over the boonies -
maybe hard to find in high dry deserts - so carry water.


It seems illogical, though, to put on caps to conserve precious distilled
water and then take them off for an operation that you know wastes a lot of
it. (Distilled water is easy to get in the USA, but try finding it in the
boonies....)

Battery Water (revisited)
 

So were can you even buy distilled water anymore. The supermarkets
have stopped carrying it. What is an alternative?
--

Battery Water (revisited)
 

Buy a TDS meter for $29 or less and test water before putting in $$$
batteries - this one I have and works great -- I don't know where I
got it from but this place is as cheap as any

http://www.automatedaquariums.com/h_tds1.htm

BTW - lots of aquarium stuff is useful and cheaper than "marine" stuff

My distilled water in So Cal is .99 per gal and measures 1 ppm TDS

Got it from the 99cent store



On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 21:08:06 GMT, Marc Auslander
wrote:

So were can you even buy distilled water anymore. The supermarkets
have stopped carrying it. What is an alternative?

Battery Water (revisited)
 

My supermarket has both steam distilled and deionized, which is a functional equivalent.

--
Chuck Tribolet

http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/triblet

Silicon Valley: STILL the best day job in the world.


"Marc Auslander" wrote in message ...
So were can you even buy distilled water anymore. The supermarkets
have stopped carrying it. What is an alternative?
--

Battery Water (revisited)
 

Marc Auslander wrote
So were can you even buy distilled water anymore. The supermarkets
have stopped carrying it. What is an alternative?
--

Odd. Every grocery store in this area carries it, in the "bottled
water" section. Wherever ironing must be done, distilled water should
be available.

Battery Water (revisited)
 

Marc Auslander wrote
So were can you even buy distilled water anymore. The supermarkets
have stopped carrying it. What is an alternative?
--
Mark wrote
Odd. Every grocery store in this area carries it, in the "bottled
water" section. Wherever ironing must be done, distilled water should
be available.

Often carried in pharmacies as well. I think people like to clean their
contact lenses with distilled water.
I think department stores that have an automotive parts section which
includes batteries also sell distilled water. That's where I get mine from,
about $1 for 4L.

Battery Water (revisited)
 

Our local auto store sells de ionized water to top up batteries. Is this
better than distilled?


Gordon Wedman wrote:

Marc Auslander wrote

So were can you even buy distilled water anymore. The supermarkets
have stopped carrying it. What is an alternative?
--

Mark wrote
Odd. Every grocery store in this area carries it, in the "bottled
water" section. Wherever ironing must be done, distilled water should
be available.


Often carried in pharmacies as well. I think people like to clean their
contact lenses with distilled water.
I think department stores that have an automotive parts section which
includes batteries also sell distilled water. That's where I get mine from,
about $1 for 4L.

Battery Water (revisited)
 

Glenn,

Trojan agrees with the advice to forgo Equalization Charging. I bought 4
T105's and they came with information that said that EQ should NOT be done on
these batteries. So, do I Eq or not?? Any advice?

Larry DeMers

Glenn Ashmore wrote:

Interesting. George Peroni at Hydrocap says to remove them before
equalizing. If they get to hot to touch either a cell is bad or you are
charging to hard. Peroni is an odd bird. If you both have the time he
will talk your ears off. Reminds me a lot of Mr. Surrette. I have had
the privilege of receiving sermons from both. :-)

Peroni takes a different position about equalizing. He claims that it
is not needed with modern 3 stage chargers and actually reduce service
life.

Jim Woodward wrote:

Surrette, says that they work fine and solve all problems, even during
equalization. Certainly if they don't work during equalization, they're
worth less (not "worthless", just "worth less").

I guess I trust Surrette -- the family has been making boat batteries for a
long time -- but I'll still have a vent above the battery box. I saw a
Hinckley 70 in Bermuda in 1996 that was going back to Maine to be repaired
after a battery explosion. They were gel cells, mounted under a bunk, with
no vent. Wasn't a pretty sight. Lucky there was no one in the stateroom at
the time. Even gel cells need venting.



--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Battery Water (revisited)
 

Probably so, but the difference is so slight that I wouldn't pay any extra
for it.

"TB" wrote in message ...
Our local auto store sells de ionized water to top up batteries. Is this
better than distilled?


Gordon Wedman wrote:

Marc Auslander wrote

So were can you even buy distilled water anymore. The supermarkets
have stopped carrying it. What is an alternative?
--

Mark wrote
Odd. Every grocery store in this area carries it, in the "bottled
water" section. Wherever ironing must be done, distilled water should
be available.


Often carried in pharmacies as well. I think people like to clean their
contact lenses with distilled water.
I think department stores that have an automotive parts section which
includes batteries also sell distilled water. That's where I get mine
from,
about $1 for 4L.

Battery Water (revisited)
 

In article ,
"Chuck Tribolet" wrote:

My supermarket has both steam distilled and deionized, which is a functional
equivalent.


Bzzzzt, Wrong, would you like to try for what is behind Door No. 2???

Deionized Water is not the "Functional Equivelent" of Distilled Water.
You need to go back to High School and retake Chemistry 100 my friend.

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

Battery Water (revisited)
 

Bruce, you confuse me here....

Back in the Dark Ages, I ran a company that produced various ion beam
equipment. It often required cooling. This was easy to do with a cooling
water loop in the test area, except that the ion sources were often quite
far from ground -- as much as 400kv in air. We also built higher voltage
stuff, but it was insulated with pressurized SF6.

In order that the cooling water not be a short path to ground, it had to be
non conductive, which we accomplished by deionizing it, effectively removing
all the dissolved particles. So, I know a little -- not a lot -- about
deionizing water.

Steam distilling leaves behind two kinds of things -- dissolved minerals,
such as calcium carbonate, sodium chloride, and the like, which, because
they are dissolved, are in ionic form -- and particle matter -- fine sand,
for example, that might be carried in the water.

Now, it's strictly true that if you deionize water, you remove only the
dissolved minerals, and could leave the non-ionic solids, but as a practical
matter, you're going to filter the water and remove the non-ionic solids
before you sell it. Both methods get the non H2O stuff out, although with
different methods. Both can deliver pretty good purity if you work hard
enough at it -- certainly good enough for battery water. So, I'd say they
are indeed functional equivalents.


--
Jim Woodward
www.mvFintry.com


..
"Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Chuck Tribolet" wrote:

My supermarket has both steam distilled and deionized, which is a
functional
equivalent.


Bzzzzt, Wrong, would you like to try for what is behind Door No. 2???

Deionized Water is not the "Functional Equivelent" of Distilled Water.
You need to go back to High School and retake Chemistry 100 my friend.

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

Battery Water (revisited)
 

Larry Demers wrote:
Trojan agrees with the advice to forgo Equalization Charging. I bought 4
T105's and they came with information that said that EQ should NOT be done on
these batteries.

Not true.

Direct quote from the Trojan Battery website: "Many experts recommend
that batteries be equalized periodically, ranging anywhere from once a
month to once or twice per year. However, Trojan only recommends
equalizing when low or wide ranging specific gravity (± .015) are
detected after fully charging a battery."

Battery Water (revisited)
 

In article ,
"Jim Woodward" jameslwoodward at attbi dot com wrote:

Bruce, you confuse me here....

Back in the "Dark Ages, I ran a company that produced various ion beam
equipment. It often required cooling. This was easy to do with a cooling
water loop in the test area, except that the ion sources were often quite
far from ground -- as much as 400kv in air. We also built higher voltage
stuff, but it was insulated with pressurized SF6.

In order that the cooling water not be a short path to ground, it had to be
non conductive, which we accomplished by deionizing it, effectively removing
all the dissolved particles. So, I know a little -- not a lot -- about
deionizing water.

Steam distilling leaves behind two kinds of things -- dissolved minerals,
such as calcium carbonate, sodium chloride, and the like, which, because
they are dissolved, are in ionic form -- and particle matter -- fine sand,
for example, that might be carried in the water.

Now, it's strictly true that if you deionize water, you remove only the
dissolved minerals, and could leave the non-ionic solids, but as a practical
matter, you're going to filter the water and remove the non-ionic solids
before you sell it. Both methods get the non H2O stuff out, although with
different methods. Both can deliver pretty good purity if you work hard
enough at it -- certainly good enough for battery water. So, I'd say they
are indeed functional equivalents.


--
Jim Woodward
www.mvFintry.com


There are MAJOR differences in what your were working with back in the
"Dark Ages" and what is being marketed as "Deionized Water". You were
in a LAB Grade enviorment, and these guy's are selling TAP WATER that
has been run through a Deionizing Columb once or twice. Deionizing
columbs are ION SPECIFIC, in nature aremust be tuned to the water
that they are working with to get anywhere near the Distilled Water
spec's. Most of these outfits just take out the Calcium and Iron and
let it go at that, and there are a lot of other things in there that can
deal the DEATH BLOW to a Battery. Ever seen what Magnesium does to a
Lead Acid Battery???? Also there has been studies undertaken by
Consumer Reports, and others concerning the quality of bottled water in
all it's varieties, that preety much says that Tap Water from a big city
is as good as most bottled water. Next, anyone who would put Single
Distilled Water in any battery needs to rethink his position, as I see
it. I use only Triple Distilled Water in my batteries, and I get it from
ALASCOM, my LongLines Telco Supplier, who maintains a pile of Battery
Banks in their Systems. They have their own Triple Distiller in House.
Now others may hold other opinions, and it has been a number (More than
25) years since I was a NitroOrganic Chemist, and did this kind of
testing for money, but the Principals are the same. Deionized Water
isn't the Functional Equivelent of Distilled Water in my estimation and
the MASS Spectrum Analyzers, and Gas Cromatagraphs, that I used years
ago convinced me. Your milage may vary.....

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

Battery Water (revisited)
 

Thanks for the explanation -- deionized water could be the functional
equivalent of triple distilled, but the stuff you buy in the stores ain't.


--
Jim Woodward
www.mvFintry.com


...
"Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Jim Woodward" jameslwoodward at attbi dot com wrote:

Bruce, you confuse me here....

Back in the "Dark Ages, I ran a company that produced various ion beam
equipment. It often required cooling. This was easy to do with a
cooling
water loop in the test area, except that the ion sources were often
quite
far from ground -- as much as 400kv in air. We also built higher voltage
stuff, but it was insulated with pressurized SF6.

In order that the cooling water not be a short path to ground, it had to
be
non conductive, which we accomplished by deionizing it, effectively
removing
all the dissolved particles. So, I know a little -- not a lot -- about
deionizing water.

Steam distilling leaves behind two kinds of things -- dissolved
minerals,
such as calcium carbonate, sodium chloride, and the like, which, because
they are dissolved, are in ionic form -- and particle matter -- fine
sand,
for example, that might be carried in the water.

Now, it's strictly true that if you deionize water, you remove only the
dissolved minerals, and could leave the non-ionic solids, but as a
practical
matter, you're going to filter the water and remove the non-ionic solids
before you sell it. Both methods get the non H2O stuff out, although
with
different methods. Both can deliver pretty good purity if you work hard
enough at it -- certainly good enough for battery water. So, I'd say
they
are indeed functional equivalents.


--
Jim Woodward
www.mvFintry.com


There are MAJOR differences in what your were working with back in the
"Dark Ages" and what is being marketed as "Deionized Water". You were
in a LAB Grade enviorment, and these guy's are selling TAP WATER that
has been run through a Deionizing Columb once or twice. Deionizing
columbs are ION SPECIFIC, in nature aremust be tuned to the water
that they are working with to get anywhere near the Distilled Water
spec's. Most of these outfits just take out the Calcium and Iron and
let it go at that, and there are a lot of other things in there that can
deal the DEATH BLOW to a Battery. Ever seen what Magnesium does to a
Lead Acid Battery???? Also there has been studies undertaken by
Consumer Reports, and others concerning the quality of bottled water in
all it's varieties, that preety much says that Tap Water from a big city
is as good as most bottled water. Next, anyone who would put Single
Distilled Water in any battery needs to rethink his position, as I see
it. I use only Triple Distilled Water in my batteries, and I get it from
ALASCOM, my LongLines Telco Supplier, who maintains a pile of Battery
Banks in their Systems. They have their own Triple Distiller in House.
Now others may hold other opinions, and it has been a number (More than
25) years since I was a NitroOrganic Chemist, and did this kind of
testing for money, but the Principals are the same. Deionized Water
isn't the Functional Equivelent of Distilled Water in my estimation and
the MASS Spectrum Analyzers, and Gas Cromatagraphs, that I used years
ago convinced me. Your milage may vary.....

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

Battery Water (revisited)
 

Another direct Trojan quote -
–When do I need to perform an equalization charge?
Equalizing should be performed when a battery is first purchased
(called a freshening charge) and on a regular basis as needed. How
often this might occur with your battery will vary depending on your
application. You will need to monitor your battery voltage and
specific gravity to determine when equalization is needed. For
example, it is time to equalize if the measured specific gravity
values are below manufacturer's recommended values after charging
(recommended value for Trojan Deep Cycle batteries is 1.277 +/- .007
at 80o F). Equalizing is also required if the specific gravity value
of any individual cell varies 30 points or more. Reduced performance
can also be an indicator that equalizing is necessary. Equalization
should also be performed when individual battery voltages in a battery
pack range greater than 0.15 volts for 6 volt batteries or 0.30 volts
for 12 volt batteries. A good rule of thumb is to perform equalize
charging once every 10 cycles.

http://trojanbattery.com/customercare_faqcharging.html




On 11 Nov 2003 18:21:32 -0800, (Mark) wrote:

Larry Demers wrote:
Trojan agrees with the advice to forgo Equalization Charging. I bought 4
T105's and they came with information that said that EQ should NOT be done on
these batteries.

Not true.

Direct quote from the Trojan Battery website: "Many experts recommend
that batteries be equalized periodically, ranging anywhere from once a
month to once or twice per year. However, Trojan only recommends
equalizing when low or wide ranging specific gravity (± .015) are
detected after fully charging a battery."