On Fri, 7 Nov 2008 09:13:31 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:




Let this be a lesson to anybody looking to buy a boat. Just say no to vinyl
or any other sort of "cover up" overhead liner.

Except for the rack, rope and sails, a boat should be hard.
And easy to clean.
A hard overhead is noisy, but popcorn paint can alleviate that.
Why haven't you mentioned popcorn paint?
I thought you were a sailor!

--Vic

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 7 Nov 2008 09:13:31 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:




Let this be a lesson to anybody looking to buy a boat. Just say no to
vinyl
or any other sort of "cover up" overhead liner.

Except for the rack, rope and sails, a boat should be hard.
And easy to clean.
A hard overhead is noisy, but popcorn paint can alleviate that.
Why haven't you mentioned popcorn paint?
I thought you were a sailor!

--Vic

It's good to see somebody else who knows what a boat is supposed to be built
like. "Hard" is a good way to put it.

I don't think popcorn paint or any rough surface is compatible with the
deckhead of a sailboat. The overhead needs to be smooth, glossy and easy to
clean with fresh water and a little bleach to keep mold and mildew from
forming. Noise is not a problem provided the deck itself is cored with balsa
or plywood, Kledgecell etc.

The primary considerations for any seaman's yacht interior finish is that it
last the life of the yacht, remain easy to clean and maintain and remain
bright and attractive. What little wood is in evidence should be kept well
varnished for the same reasons. But primarily the interior surfaces should
be GRP with a glossy gel coat finish. Trim can be wood and perhaps one or
two of the bulkheads. The overhead (deckhead) should never be finished with
that cheap, unsightly vinyl held in place with battens. It's unacceptable to
any real sailor. Totally untenable!

Wilbur Hubbard

Any real sailor would throw your paint and shiny **** out the hatch.
lime, oil and wax the bloody wood and be done with it. its cleanable
easy on the eyes and cheap. and it takes about 30 min to apply. its
not going to choke you out with fumes nore make your eyes water. if
you dont have to have the filtered bees wax it will cost about 5
dollers to make up enough to coat your cabin.

"Two meter troll" wrote in message
...


Any real sailor would throw your paint and shiny **** out the hatch.
lime, oil and wax the bloody wood and be done with it. its cleanable
easy on the eyes and cheap. and it takes about 30 min to apply. its
not going to choke you out with fumes nore make your eyes water. if
you dont have to have the filtered bees wax it will cost about 5
dollers to make up enough to coat your cabin.

Oh, please! Why make a virtue out of being a cheapskate? But, the old, tried
and true methods, if they please you and don't involve extra hours of
maintenance, are nothing to sneeze at provided you're on a budget. And it
sounds like you have a wooden boat. Wood is more comfortable than GRP any
day. But the endless hours of maintenance are prohibitive. For those of us
who wish to sail more than we work, GRP is the only way to go.

Wilbur Hubbard

I found that the distributor was Hough Marine and Machine Co in Seattle, but
it appears they are into other ventures now.

What material i have left is still on the original roll from the factory.
Looks like it came from France, perhaps from a company by the name of
Sommer, Avenue Leon Charpentier, 05200 Sedan. I Googled all that, but not
speaking French, and not much help in the translations, I gave up. But there
were some hits I couldn't make anything of.

Couldn't find my Sailrite samples.

"Garland Gray" wrote in message
...
Geoff,
I assume you have what was on our old catamaran, open cell foam backed
vinyl. It was just glued to the fiberglass, and heat plus age caused it to
break down to dust, and fall off. This began when the boat was 7 or 8
years old, starting first in the main cabin where it got the hottest.
Re-gluing wouldn't work.

About 12 years ago I replaced it with a solid vinyl headliner material
that I bought from Defender Industries. IIRC, it was 1/10 inch thick and
hid irregularities, but I don't see it in the 2008 catalog. I got a lot
(still have some on the roll), so it was drop shipped from a distributor
in Seattle I think, by the name of Haughton Marine or something like that.
I thought it looked quite good, and expected it to last much longer than
the original, so if you could find it, I would recommend it.

Whatever you end up with, if you use glue, try to get 3M water base
contact cement from an auto parts store. Solvent based contact cement
dissolves vinyl. Water based costs about 2 1/2 times as much, but goes
twice as far, and doesn't kill you with the fumes.

I'll check my records tomorrow to see if I have any more info on the
material. I also have some old samples of headliner material I got from
Sailrite. Might check with them.


"Geoff Schultz" wrote in message
.. .
Sorry, but I'm posting another on-topic question regarding boats instead
of
politics, global warming or general name calling...

My vinyl headliner is sagging in some locations due to the foam backing
deteriorating. Obviously this has been one of the down sides of storing
the boat in the Caribbean during hurricane season.

The headliner was glued on to 1/8" plywood which is held in place by
tension or mouldings. The problem started when the boat was only about 8
years old, so as a result I'm very leery of replacing the existing
headliner with another foam backed vinyl product, but I do want to
utilize
a product that has the same look as the current product. There were some
locations where the headliner was installed and then cabinets were built
in-place under them. Due to the small spans in these locations, the
headliner is in good shape and it would take a huge effort to remove the
cabinets and gain access.

So, my basic question is: What is the purpose of the foam on the vinyl
material? Based upon research that we've done so far (which isn't
extensive), the vinyl comes uncoated and the distributor can apply foam
to
it before shipping. Can I apply it directly to the plywood and if so,
what
are the downsides of doing that?

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

On 2008-11-07 18:03:16 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
said:

I don't think popcorn paint or any rough surface is compatible with the
deckhead of a sailboat. The overhead needs to be smooth, glossy and easy to
clean with fresh water and a little bleach to keep mold and mildew from
forming. Noise is not a problem provided the deck itself is cored with balsa
or plywood, Kledgecell etc.

The primary considerations for any seaman's yacht interior finish is that it
last the life of the yacht, remain easy to clean and maintain and remain
bright and attractive. What little wood is in evidence should be kept well
varnished for the same reasons. But primarily the interior surfaces should
be GRP with a glossy gel coat finish. Trim can be wood and perhaps one or
two of the bulkheads. The overhead (deckhead) should never be finished with
that cheap, unsightly vinyl held in place with battens. It's unacceptable to
any real sailor. Totally untenable!

I actually agree with most of this! But you'd love Xan's interior,
except that we've many wood accents that keep it looking less like a
Chlorox bottle.

Minor points: I like a Xan's slight texture over a glossy surface, but
that's a personal thing. We can keep it clean as easily as the edges
which are smooth, but the inevitable not-smooth areas would bug the
living daylights out of me (was a lacquer sprayer in a past life --
sight down every flat surface to spot imperfections).

Another thing. You don't mention it, but the Practical Sailor review of
the Navy 44s does: All our through-bolt nuts are visible, not hidden.
No, it's not as purty, but if one of them starts leaking, I'll see
immediately.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On 2008-11-07 18:38:37 -0500, Two meter troll said:

Any real sailor would throw your paint and shiny **** out the hatch.
lime, oil and wax the bloody wood and be done with it. its cleanable
easy on the eyes and cheap. and it takes about 30 min to apply. its
not going to choke you out with fumes nore make your eyes water. if
you dont have to have the filtered bees wax it will cost about 5
dollers to make up enough to coat your cabin.

Uggh!

Used to do oil and wax finishes on furniture that lasted decades (have
examples next to me 30 years old), but after trying it on Xan, I
stripped everything and varnished.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On 2008-11-07 18:53:32 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
said:

Wood is more comfortable than GRP any day. But the endless hours of
maintenance are prohibitive. For those of us who wish to sail more than
we work, GRP is the only way to go.

Okay, that's twice I've agreed with you in as many minutes.

WHO are you and what have you done with Wilbur?

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Geoff,

Back in 2000, I replaced my vinyl backed headliner with a product
called Heat Shield, It was an insulation liner with a vinyl finish
material placed over it. It looked like bubble wrap and it did a
good job of keeping our cabin cool with an additional reflective
shield. I'm not sure they are still in business, but you can
goggle for them. I dealt with people from a boat show that
represented them, Hotwire Enterprises in Madiera Beach Florida.
Their phone was 727-217-9809. The material was held to the hull
with strong double sided adhesive foam strips. Over time, some of
them have loosened, so adding supportive molding would be a good
idea.

Sherwin

sherwin dubren wrote in news:gfbe16$hss$1
@registered.motzarella.org:

Geoff,

Back in 2000, I replaced my vinyl backed headliner with a product
called Heat Shield, It was an insulation liner with a vinyl finish
material placed over it. It looked like bubble wrap and it did a
good job of keeping our cabin cool with an additional reflective
shield. I'm not sure they are still in business, but you can
goggle for them. I dealt with people from a boat show that
represented them, Hotwire Enterprises in Madiera Beach Florida.
Their phone was 727-217-9809. The material was held to the hull
with strong double sided adhesive foam strips. Over time, some of
them have loosened, so adding supportive molding would be a good
idea.

Sherwin

Sherwin,

Thanks for the pointer. I've looked at this also, but am worried about the
additional thickness. I'm planning on re-using the existing 1/8" panels
after I sand the old foam/adhesive off of it.

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org