Sorry, but I'm posting another on-topic question regarding boats instead of
politics, global warming or general name calling...

My vinyl headliner is sagging in some locations due to the foam backing
deteriorating. Obviously this has been one of the down sides of storing
the boat in the Caribbean during hurricane season.

The headliner was glued on to 1/8" plywood which is held in place by
tension or mouldings. The problem started when the boat was only about 8
years old, so as a result I'm very leery of replacing the existing
headliner with another foam backed vinyl product, but I do want to utilize
a product that has the same look as the current product. There were some
locations where the headliner was installed and then cabinets were built
in-place under them. Due to the small spans in these locations, the
headliner is in good shape and it would take a huge effort to remove the
cabinets and gain access.

So, my basic question is: What is the purpose of the foam on the vinyl
material? Based upon research that we've done so far (which isn't
extensive), the vinyl comes uncoated and the distributor can apply foam to
it before shipping. Can I apply it directly to the plywood and if so, what
are the downsides of doing that?

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

On Thu, 06 Nov 2008 08:02:58 -0600, Geoff Schultz
wrote:

Sorry, but I'm posting another on-topic question regarding boats instead of
politics, global warming or general name calling...

My vinyl headliner is sagging in some locations due to the foam backing
deteriorating. Obviously this has been one of the down sides of storing
the boat in the Caribbean during hurricane season.

The headliner was glued on to 1/8" plywood which is held in place by
tension or mouldings. The problem started when the boat was only about 8
years old, so as a result I'm very leery of replacing the existing
headliner with another foam backed vinyl product, but I do want to utilize
a product that has the same look as the current product. There were some
locations where the headliner was installed and then cabinets were built
in-place under them. Due to the small spans in these locations, the
headliner is in good shape and it would take a huge effort to remove the
cabinets and gain access.

So, my basic question is: What is the purpose of the foam on the vinyl
material? Based upon research that we've done so far (which isn't
extensive), the vinyl comes uncoated and the distributor can apply foam to
it before shipping. Can I apply it directly to the plywood and if so, what
are the downsides of doing that?

-- Geoff

The purpose of the foam backing is to give some body to the vinyl and
make it smoother appearing. If your head liner is like mine you have
1/8th inch ply in strips across the width of the cabin top, held in
with battens. If you try to apply just vinyl to the ply panels and
then bend them into place I think that the vinyl will get all wrinkled
and sag. The foam does give it some body so it can tighten in some
places and loosen on others without sagging. At least I think that is
how it works. In any event, the foam always deteriorates.

You might try to use just vinyl by using a spray glue to attach the
vinyl to the plywood but I think I'd make a trial panel first -- there
must be a reason for all the foam backed vinyl that is applied to
boats.

I have seen outdoor carpet applied particularly in the passageway to
aft cabins. You might have a look at some carpet samples.

In any event do let us know what you did and how it worked as you
aren't the only boat with deteriorating vinyl head liners.

By the way, some of these OB (only boats) topics are quite
refreshing....

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

On Thu, 06 Nov 2008 08:02:58 -0600, Geoff Schultz
wrote:

Sorry, but I'm posting another on-topic question regarding boats
instead of politics, global warming or general name calling...

My vinyl headliner is sagging in some locations due to the foam
backing deteriorating. Obviously this has been one of the down sides
of storing the boat in the Caribbean during hurricane season.

The headliner was glued on to 1/8" plywood which is held in place by
tension or mouldings. The problem started when the boat was only
about 8 years old, so as a result I'm very leery of replacing the
existing headliner with another foam backed vinyl product, but I do
want to utilize a product that has the same look as the current
product. There were some locations where the headliner was installed
and then cabinets were built in-place under them. Due to the small
spans in these locations, the headliner is in good shape and it would
take a huge effort to remove the cabinets and gain access.

So, my basic question is: What is the purpose of the foam on the
vinyl material? Based upon research that we've done so far (which
isn't extensive), the vinyl comes uncoated and the distributor can
apply foam to it before shipping. Can I apply it directly to the
plywood and if so, what are the downsides of doing that?

-- Geoff

The purpose of the foam backing is to give some body to the vinyl and
make it smoother appearing. If your head liner is like mine you have
1/8th inch ply in strips across the width of the cabin top, held in
with battens. If you try to apply just vinyl to the ply panels and
then bend them into place I think that the vinyl will get all wrinkled
and sag. The foam does give it some body so it can tighten in some
places and loosen on others without sagging. At least I think that is
how it works. In any event, the foam always deteriorates.

You might try to use just vinyl by using a spray glue to attach the
vinyl to the plywood but I think I'd make a trial panel first -- there
must be a reason for all the foam backed vinyl that is applied to
boats.
[clip]
Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

The arch on the panels is probably no more than 1-2 inches as shown in
the same picture that I used to describe my porthole problem:

http://www.geoffschultz.org/temp/20081031_155154.jpg

The panels stretch from side to side and I was planning on using a spray
adhesive to attach the vinyl to the panel. I had assumed that the foam
wsa there to smooth out any defects in the panel and give it a better
appearance. I just don't want to need to repeat this in 7-10 years...

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

Geoff,

Have you thought of using a fiberglass panel instead of vinyl covered
plywood?

I am thinking of redoing my headliner also and mine is the same as yours.

Check this: http://www.cranecomposites.com/transportation/LTR.asp

Ansley Sawyer
SV Pacem

Geoff,

I went back on that website and found a product that may be better than the
one I put in the last post.

http://www.cranecomposites.com/Build...s/glasbord.asp

They make a number of fiberglass panels. Check out their whole site.

Ansley Sawyer
SV Pacem

"Ansley W. Sawyer" wrote in
:

Geoff,

I went back on that website and found a product that may be better
than the one I put in the last post.

http://www.cranecomposites.com/Build...s/glasbord.asp

They make a number of fiberglass panels. Check out their whole site.

Ansley Sawyer
SV Pacem

I really don't want a hard panel due to noise. I've found that boats which
have fiberglass or wood ceilings tend to be much noisier than those with a
fabric/vinyl ceiling. However, thanks for the info!

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

On Thu, 06 Nov 2008 08:02:58 -0600, someone posting as Geoff Schultz
purportedly wrote:

Sorry, but I'm posting another on-topic question regarding boats instead
of politics, global warming or general name calling...

Damn you! Damn you and the independent thinking you stand for!

--
poking dumbasses in the forehead, till my finger hurts.

On 2008-11-06 09:02:58 -0500, Geoff Schultz said:

Based upon research that we've done so far (which isn't extensive), the
vinyl comes uncoated and the distributor can apply foam to it before
shipping. Can I apply it directly to the plywood and if so, what are
the downsides of doing that?

Watch spray glues as most have a "life" as well. Some that are just
fine for automotive restoration will fail in a few years' exposure to
the marine environment.

Gluing directly to a fixed surface will be very difficult to get right.
Inevitably, there will be some wrinkles at first, more later.

Brainstorming, I'm flashing on the older materials used to back liners
and upholstery. Something with "give" that will give a smooth finish,
but won't so quickly break down. Some sort of felt comes to mind, but
I'm sure there are modern equivalents I'm not aware of.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Geoff,
I assume you have what was on our old catamaran, open cell foam backed
vinyl. It was just glued to the fiberglass, and heat plus age caused it to
break down to dust, and fall off. This began when the boat was 7 or 8 years
old, starting first in the main cabin where it got the hottest. Re-gluing
wouldn't work.

About 12 years ago I replaced it with a solid vinyl headliner material that
I bought from Defender Industries. IIRC, it was 1/10 inch thick and hid
irregularities, but I don't see it in the 2008 catalog. I got a lot (still
have some on the roll), so it was drop shipped from a distributor in Seattle
I think, by the name of Haughton Marine or something like that. I thought it
looked quite good, and expected it to last much longer than the original, so
if you could find it, I would recommend it.

Whatever you end up with, if you use glue, try to get 3M water base contact
cement from an auto parts store. Solvent based contact cement dissolves
vinyl. Water based costs about 2 1/2 times as much, but goes twice as far,
and doesn't kill you with the fumes.

I'll check my records tomorrow to see if I have any more info on the
material. I also have some old samples of headliner material I got from
Sailrite. Might check with them.


"Geoff Schultz" wrote in message
.. .
Sorry, but I'm posting another on-topic question regarding boats instead
of
politics, global warming or general name calling...

My vinyl headliner is sagging in some locations due to the foam backing
deteriorating. Obviously this has been one of the down sides of storing
the boat in the Caribbean during hurricane season.

The headliner was glued on to 1/8" plywood which is held in place by
tension or mouldings. The problem started when the boat was only about 8
years old, so as a result I'm very leery of replacing the existing
headliner with another foam backed vinyl product, but I do want to utilize
a product that has the same look as the current product. There were some
locations where the headliner was installed and then cabinets were built
in-place under them. Due to the small spans in these locations, the
headliner is in good shape and it would take a huge effort to remove the
cabinets and gain access.

So, my basic question is: What is the purpose of the foam on the vinyl
material? Based upon research that we've done so far (which isn't
extensive), the vinyl comes uncoated and the distributor can apply foam to
it before shipping. Can I apply it directly to the plywood and if so,
what
are the downsides of doing that?

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

On Wed, 5 Nov 2008 18:17:27 -0500, "Garland Gray"
wrote:

Geoff,
I assume you have what was on our old catamaran, open cell foam backed
vinyl. It was just glued to the fiberglass, and heat plus age caused it to
break down to dust, and fall off. This began when the boat was 7 or 8 years
old, starting first in the main cabin where it got the hottest. Re-gluing
wouldn't work.

About 12 years ago I replaced it with a solid vinyl headliner material that
I bought from Defender Industries. IIRC, it was 1/10 inch thick and hid
irregularities, but I don't see it in the 2008 catalog. I got a lot (still
have some on the roll), so it was drop shipped from a distributor in Seattle
I think, by the name of Haughton Marine or something like that. I thought it
looked quite good, and expected it to last much longer than the original, so
if you could find it, I would recommend it.

Whatever you end up with, if you use glue, try to get 3M water base contact
cement from an auto parts store. Solvent based contact cement dissolves
vinyl. Water based costs about 2 1/2 times as much, but goes twice as far,
and doesn't kill you with the fumes.

I'll check my records tomorrow to see if I have any more info on the
material. I also have some old samples of headliner material I got from
Sailrite. Might check with them.


Call Defender if this sounds like something that will work for you,
Geoff. They are very good at getting just about anything you can
describe to them. Since they used to carry it, they may still, or know
where to get it. They have a lot of stuff that is not on the website.