On Mon, 03 May 2004 15:20:48 GMT, "Scott Vernon"
wrote:

Is that why she's an ''ex'' ?

SV

No. Actually selling the house, business, all that and cruising was
her idea. More an insistance. She decided she prefered women was the
reason.

Rick

Where the heck do you find enough storage for a years supply of food on
a Coronado 35? I'm having trouble finding space for two months on my 37'
Irwin.
Kelton
Isle Escape

Rick Morel wrote:
On 03 May 2004 05:17:00 GMT, (Location29) wrote:


I've only got $20,000 for a boat and a paltry $1500.
a month in income is there any hope for me to cruise fulltime
or should I just go buy a condo with a water view?


Depends. What is your lifestyle? Are you going to cruise from marina
to marina or anchor out? Boat. Sailboat? How big do you think you
need? Must you have a "late model" or is an much older one in good
condition okay?

My ex and I cruised for 2-1/2 years aboard a Coronado 35 equipped with
solar and wind generators that supplied all the power we needed;
autopilot and electronic/GPS charting and watermaker. It was totally
self-contained. We mostly anchored out and had about a year of food
aboard. Some months our cost was $0.00, others a few hundred. A friend
spent about 6 years with his son and daughter, using the engine a lot
to move and to charge batteries. They almost always anchored out. He
said it averaged about $300 a month.


I'm now looking at a 26-footer for just me. Lots less money to
purchase and maintain. I do plan on adding solar, watermaker and
tillerpilot. To me these are necessities since my thing is to get away
from it all and spend extended time anchored off those "deserted
islands".


The below is from my now offline web page:


June 5, 2002. The below was written before we set sail. It was a
combination
of memories from 29 years ago, cruising aboard a 22-footer and common
sense.
After more than a year and a half, and 3,000 NM under the keel, I
still stand by
it with only one exception. Cellphone Internet is now reliable and
relativly inexpensive.

I wrote the following in response to some questions on the
rec.boats.cruising newsgroup.
Someone wrote:
My dream is to take a multi-year sabbatical from my job, SOLO
cruising
Central and South America in my SAILBOAT. If I went on the
cheap (i.e.
mooring vs. tying up, avoiding marina/tourist bars/restaurants,
provisioning
from less touristy areas, and whatever else I could do to shave
costs) -
what would it take to finance the voyage?
Then someone calling themselves "Money" wrote:
I don't know why this is always such a difficult question - how do
you
live at home? High on the hog - or in a frugal even cheap style? Do
you run with the spendthrift crowd plastic charged to the limit - or
drive a 6 year old car?

So, I put on my thinking cap and wrote:
I think it is always such a difficult question because the "asker" is
thinking about boat/cruising related expenses, including touristy
areas vs. more out-of-the-way places. Perhaps "wondering about" would
be a better term. As obvious as it sounds, when you don't know, you
don't know!
But Mr. Money does have a point. How _do_ you live at home? Are you
willing to change if necessary? Everyone has different needs, or at
least perceived needs. Years ago a friend's dad, recently retired,
told me he only got $xxxx a month now and had to find a job because he
and his wife simply could not survive on that. At the time, his $xxxx
was almost TWICE our income! We were comfortable and would have been
living high on the hog with his. It is true, it's very easy to get
used to an increase in income, but very, very difficult to get used to
a decrease.

Disclaimer: What follows are my thoughts and opinions, based on living
aboard years ago and our current situation, which is getting our boat
ready for a change back to the live-aboard cruising life. We've asked
ourselves these questions and hopefully found the answers we can live
with. Lastly, free advice is sometimes worth what you pay for it.

I think the first step is for someone contemplating this is to really
look at your lifestyle and current expenses. Decide what you must have
and what you can do without.
All this should be obvious, but....
In today's high tech, power hungry world, if your must-haves include
things that use electricity, seriously look at how you're going to
provide that power. If by plugging in or generator, it's going to cost
big bucks. If by solar, wind generator and inverter, you'll have a
one-time investment plus battery replacements. But, and a big BUT, you
can't just draw power from the system without thought of how much you
have available. Don't forget you have to run certain things as well,
lights, including nav/anchor lights, bilge pump, watermaker, GPS,
fathometer, etc. It's almost imposible these days to go the oil lamp
no power route!
Communications. Do you really need a cell-phone? Internet access? If
so, add a lot of dollar signs! If you make money that way, it's
justifiable. You may not need all the time access, just when working.
If you do "need" all the time, anywhere, do some digging and checking
to find the best service for you. It will be EXPEN$IVE. If you just
need email to keep in touch with family and friends, there is a
service using Marine SSB for about $200 a year; or get an Amateur
radio license if you don't have one and use ham email. It's free, but
no commercial stuff allowed. Both are good safety devices and there
are ham marine nets where you can get messages passed along or even
"phone patch" (talk on the telephone) to a family member or friend.
That out of the way. Food. Ya' gotta' eat, no matter where you are.
How much do you spend now for food? If you eat out or get take-away a
lot, maybe now is the time to change that to see if you can live that
way and to get a more accurate picture of cost. If not, then add in
that humongrously greater food cost! Are you happy eating out of cans
with the occasional "bouts" of fresh? Are you creative putting
together a meal from said cans? Do you like cheap things that don't
require refrigeration -- rice, pasta, flour for making bread, etc.? Do
you like seafood and are you good at catching it (don't count on it,
but accept the free addition when available)? Do you just have to have
prime rib and sirloin? Are you going to need refrigeration all the
time? Another power eater and/or pain-in-the-neck and expense getting
ice if so. Now you gotta' cook said food. The general consensus seems
to be the best way to go is propane. It's cheap, clean and available.
Our experiences confirmed that. We found those years ago that it's
very wise to have two propane bottles -- run one dry then switch and
get the other refilled. Most folks report a 20-lb. tank will last them
about three months. Maybe we don't cook as "fancy" because we found it
lasted us closer to five or even six months.
Entertainment. Strictly your call. If you now spend a bunch and don't
think you'll be able to afford it, then I'd suggest at least cutting
way back right now. Substitute things that are free or cheap. The old
walks in the park or along the beach/river type things; cheap
pasttimes such as what? Macrame, fancy rope work, reading, keeping a
journal, solitaire, researching old ship wrecks, building ships in
bottles. Okay, okay, I'm getting a bit way out here; but can you find
such things to do and do you like 'um? There are times when you're
pretty much stuck on board and times when you can go out exploring,
and times when you have to work; either on the boat on at a real job.
Just like at home.
Addictions. Do you smoke? Drink a lot? Take drugs? Okay, you don't
have to answer _me_! :-) But, if your answer is "yes" to any, can you
support the habit? If not, NOW is the time to quit!
Health. Do you have a health problem that requires medication? Any
special requirements?
Well, that should about do it for questions about lifestyle that you,
and only you, can answer.


Da' boat related stuff:
Are you handy with tools and things mechanical? Can you do all or most
of the work on your boat? Actually there are very few folks that can't
when you come right down to it. You may not know how now, but most
everyone can learn. It is most definitely worth learning! Otherwise,
you could be facing an out-of-the-blue expense that'll wipe out your
whole cruising fund! There's a whole bunch of info on the web and many
books available. Add to that the fact that most boaters are willing,
if not eager, to share experiences.
Fuel. If your's is a power boat, find out how much it's going to take.
If sail, how much will you use the engine? We know one live-aboard
cruiser with a nice sailboat, but he's never even seen the sails! He
told us his fuel bill runs about $45 a month. We tend to mostly
"forget" we have an engine and use it only when absolutely necessary.
There are things that need fairly regular replacement. Check your
owner's manuals :-) Seriously, make a list of such items along with
frequency and cost. These should mostly be fuel, oil and water
filters, but find out. Don't forget toilet paper and the like! There's
really no way to budget for unexpected failures, but it would be wise
to have some bucks available for them. That is, set some amount that
you feel comfortable with as a minimum and pretend your liquid assets
have reached zero when you have that much left. Otherwise, you may
find yourself stranded with a "broken boat" and no way to generate
revenue. IOW, getting a job.

Marinas, moorings and such. Now we get into the Great Unknown! I more
than suspect those folks that "get by" on only $2,000 a month or more
spend quite a lot of time at marinas and/or must spend a lot of nights
at them while underway. You can almost always anchor out, but there
are some places where paying that precious money is the only way. In
the past, we've run into places where you have to hand over $25 or
more just to tie up and buy food from them, and out-of-the way places
where we've rented a slip for $50 a month and even less. We've stayed
at fishing ports where you just pick a spot and tie up, either to the
dock or another boat. Of course, you may wake up one morning and find
there's a 50-foot shrimpboat tied up to you and a 40-foot one tied up
to it! Or be awakened at 3 AM and asked to pull out so the boat you're
tied to can get underway. Everything does have some price, either in
money or convenience or sweat :-) There's just so many varibles and it
depends a lot on where you are. Free or cheap _can_ be found almost
all the time if you're willing to spend the time looking and talking
to other cruisers and locals, and probably put up with some added work
and/or inconvenience.
Entry fees and such. Do some searching on the web. Most countries have
a site that lists the requirements and fees. Again, talk to others
along the way. Once you've committed, this is the best way to get (and
give) information. Oh, and don't forget fuel in many countries is a
lot more expensive than in the US!

I think the bottom line question is a two-parter:
1 - How much are you willing to give up in trade for what you're
going to get out of it?
2 - How flexible are you?
Question 1 applies to life in general. We're making those choices
every day.
Question 2 to me is the real biggie. This kind of life is a constant
change. There are so many differences and possibilies from one port to
the next. Are you on the one extreme that just loves change? If so,
you're gonna' have a blast! The other extrene that just hates change?
You're going to hate it. Hmmm... you may want to rethink. Somewhere in
the middle like most of us? Well, you're probably going to have a
blast sometimes and going to have those times you just hate. Well
duhhhh... Come to think of it, you're probably having a blast and/or
hating your life right now!
Along the same line is "culture shock" if you're looking at voyaging
to other countries. Come to think of it, that can apply in the US --
us Sout' Loo-si-anna 'Cajuns really get a kick out of some "yankee"
reactions! Seriously, this is really a concern. Can you accept and
adapt? That old cliche', "When in Rome...", really applies here. I
have seen some folks really "freak out" and some that wound up in a
foreign jail. Remember that now you are the foreigner!

Well, I've written quite a bit here and I hope it generates some
thought. It's a big change to tackle, but it's just living life. Like
any "life", there are things you need to learn; things you need to
have; things you need to give up; good times and bad. It's not a
magical life, all filled with calm waters and beautiful beaches and
coconuts falling out of the trees onto your plate, but neither is it
constant storms and fighting the sea and spending fortunes on dockage.
Bear in mind it is a life that relies a lot on independence and self
reliance. Most of the time the buck stops with you. It requires taking
care of things RIGHT NOW a lot of the time. I forget who, but I recall
some football player said this. "It's like fighting with a 600-lb
gorilla. You don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla
gets tired."
Try it, you'll like it! Or not. If not you can hopefully sell your
dreamboat, get all or most your money back and go back to your old
life. Give it enough of a chance though. Our "mantra" when we first
moved aboard was, "We'll get used to it!" Like any change, there is
a lot to "get used to" and only you can decide if you want to.


Rick

On Mon, 03 May 2004 12:50:27 -0400, Kelton
wrote:

Where the heck do you find enough storage for a years supply of food on
a Coronado 35? I'm having trouble finding space for two months on my 37'
Irwin.
Kelton
Isle Escape

As it said in the ads back then, the C 35 has the room of a 45-footer.
It really does. Lots more than an Irwin 37 (I'm familiar with them).
Cans and cans of stuff, many gallon plastic containers of rice, dried
beans, flour, corn meal, sugar, powdered milk etc. Keep a reasonable
amount in the cabinets and pantry, then "restock" from stowage every
now and then. Of course some things, such as real potatoes and onions
and refrigerated stuff require more often replacement. No big deal to
run out and switch to canned or dried for a while. Sometimes it was a
pretty long while rather than return to "civilization" :-)

Rick

Depends. What is your lifestyle? Are you going to cruise from marina
to marina or anchor out? Boat. Sailboat? How big do you think you
need? Must you have a "late model" or is an much older one in good
condition okay? BRBR

Original poster here,
Thanks for the responses to my question, very
much appreciated. I probably should have said
that my lifestyle is a simple one and I'll be single handing about 80% of the
time. I realize marinas
are not going to be the norm and anchoring/mooring
will be my lot in life. With that in mind any recommendations on boat type??
Shallow draft would be an advantage I suppose. My plan is to
sail mostly the Florida area, any areas with cheaper
marinas? I know the keys are high priced.

Mark

On 03 May 2004 21:22:21 GMT, (Location29) wrote:
Original poster here,
Thanks for the responses to my question, very
much appreciated. I probably should have said
that my lifestyle is a simple one and I'll be single handing about 80% of the
time. I realize marinas
are not going to be the norm and anchoring/mooring
will be my lot in life. With that in mind any recommendations on boat type??
Shallow draft would be an advantage I suppose. My plan is to
sail mostly the Florida area, any areas with cheaper
marinas? I know the keys are high priced.

Shallow draft is a lot easier to live with along the SW Florida coast
and the keys. A lot harder to live with offshore. Also generally poor
performance to windward. It's all a tradeoff. As a rule of thumb, a
5-1/2 ft. draft (what ours was) cuts out half the places you can go
with a 4-1/2; a 4-1/2 ft. draft cuts out half the places you can go
with 3-1/2.

Yes, the keys are high priced, but you _can_ find some reasonable
marinas there if you look. Mostly small fishing ones that have some
slips. Mostly anywhere, transient fees are way up there but paying for
a month is not too bad every now and then. Actually, with your income
you could afford to spend all the time you want at monthly costs.
Well, until you get down about halfway.

Be advised that plenty, if not most, of the "traditional" South FL
anchorages are no more. Seems the rich yankees want a clear view and
push the local governments to do away with them.

Rick

time. I realize marinas
are not going to be the norm and anchoring/mooring
will be my lot in life.

Mark, with only $1500 a month in disposable income, you can forget the
marinas. If you really need to tie up then look for back water fishing or
commercial facilities where they will let you live aboard. Most marinas now
charge extra or just don't allow you to liveaboard..

Another point... Most marinas will require that you have liability insurance
on you boat and to get this, many insurance agents push you into a full
coverage package.
A $20,000 may be hard to get insured (if a survey is required).

Once you find and purchase a boat, you biggest savings, after forgetting the
marina, will be boat repair and maintenance. Learn it and do it all
yourself.. The shops and services from shore, will charge you $60 to $100/hr
to do anything on your boat. And if you hire "casual help" off on the dock,
you will get what you pay for and often less..

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

Location29 wrote:
Depends. What is your lifestyle? Are you going to cruise from marina
to marina or anchor out? Boat. Sailboat? How big do you think you
need? Must you have a "late model" or is an much older one in good
condition okay? BRBR

Original poster here,
Thanks for the responses to my question, very
much appreciated. I probably should have said
that my lifestyle is a simple one and I'll be single handing about 80% of the
time. I realize marinas
are not going to be the norm and anchoring/mooring
will be my lot in life. With that in mind any recommendations on boat type??
Shallow draft would be an advantage I suppose. My plan is to
sail mostly the Florida area, any areas with cheaper
marinas? I know the keys are high priced.

Mark


Do you want mere subsistance, or are you interested in making some
money?

I might want a cool Canadian summer labour force to work on my dock
on the St. John River for a few weeks, if you want to consider
something like that.

Remove nospam to reply.

Terry K

Several posters have recommended that you anchor out rather than use
marinas. I completely agree but worry about making that happen. The
cruising guides with which I am familiar tout the marinas (probably
because they are the ones who buy ads in the guides). The guides seem
to rarely tell about very many good anchorages and, importantly, where
you can land your dingy. Can anyone recommend guides for the East
Coast and the Bahamas that emphasis anchoring or at least give it fair
coverage?

Lee Huddleston
s/v Truelove
lying Sea Gate Marina
Beaufort, NC

Skipper Bob has a book all about anchorages.

http://skipperbob.home.att.net/

However, the best "live on the hook" anchorages you'll have to find on your own.
I have friends who have survived, (thrived, actually) for most of the last 24
years living on roughly the specified amount - it can be done, but it requires
serious adjustment of one's lifestyle.




"Lee Huddleston" wrote in message
.. .
Several posters have recommended that you anchor out rather than use
marinas. I completely agree but worry about making that happen. The
cruising guides with which I am familiar tout the marinas (probably
because they are the ones who buy ads in the guides). The guides seem
to rarely tell about very many good anchorages and, importantly, where
you can land your dingy. Can anyone recommend guides for the East
Coast and the Bahamas that emphasis anchoring or at least give it fair
coverage?

Lee Huddleston
s/v Truelove
lying Sea Gate Marina
Beaufort, NC

"Jeff Morris" wrote:

Skipper Bob has a book all about anchorages.

http://skipperbob.home.att.net/

However, the best "live on the hook" anchorages you'll have to find on your own.
I have friends who have survived, (thrived, actually) for most of the last 24
years living on roughly the specified amount - it can be done, but it requires
serious adjustment of one's lifestyle.

Skipper Bob's anchorage book is good for the ICW and in addition has
the hailing frequency (which often changes when you go across a state
line), names (what to hail the bridge as is often not on the charts
and it's important to know which bridge you are talking to when there
are several in close proximity), and schedules of the bridges.

He also has a marina book which might be a good idea to have also
(it's inexpensive enough) as it gives the relative prices and
amenities in a table form so you can decide if you want to go into a
marina for a night or two to do the laundry or get water for instance.

For NC, SC, and GA, Claiborne Young's books (although much more
expensive) are really excellent for anchorages. I haven't seen his
Florida books (he has one for the east coast and the west coast and
has collaborated on a Keys book too). He covers the whole state and
not just the ICW. And (particularly important in Georgia with larger
tides) indicates what kind of swing room is available for various size
boats.

For the Chesapeake, I really like the Gunkholer's Guide, although the
Chesapeake Bay magazine's guide is also good.

Finding anchorages will be assisted if you have really good detailed
and up-to-date charts.

In the Bahamas, the Explorer charts have anchorages on them IIRC.
There are also guidebooks which list various anchorages. I don't
think Skipper Bob's book is as good for the Bahamas as his ones on the
ICW.

"Lee Huddleston" wrote in message
. ..
Several posters have recommended that you anchor out rather than use
marinas. I completely agree but worry about making that happen. The
cruising guides with which I am familiar tout the marinas (probably
because they are the ones who buy ads in the guides). The guides seem
to rarely tell about very many good anchorages and, importantly, where
you can land your dingy. Can anyone recommend guides for the East
Coast and the Bahamas that emphasis anchoring or at least give it fair
coverage?

Lee Huddleston
s/v Truelove
lying Sea Gate Marina
Beaufort, NC


grandma Rosalie