On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 15:48:24 -0400, "Ernest Scribbler"
wrote:

wrote
You can imagine how that feature is amplified when the boat is 260
feet long, and pivots on it's keel!

The side of the MT was probably traveling faster towards the SB than
the SB was traveling forward.

Sounds like an excellent reason to stay the heck out of its way. SF Bay is
what, 2-3 miles wide?


I'm guessing they just wanted a closer look and the plan had some
flaws.

40 foot sailboats sail very close to each other all the time when
racing, so it doesn't seem that unusual. It doesn't always end in a
collison.

I'll bet they didn't have the entire bay to themselves, either.

On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:10:13 -0700 (PDT), Two meter troll
wrote:

On Oct 16, 12:25*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 12:17:03 -0700 (PDT), Two meter troll





wrote:
On Oct 16, 11:47*am, wrote:
On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:32:45 -0700 (PDT), Two meter troll

wrote:
ummm......my thought was how stupid do you actually have to be to run
a 40' boat into the side of a 200' boat in day time with good
visability.
Then i read this page and yall act as if the guy in the 200' boat that
got nailed in the SIDE was at fault. most boats dont move sideways
throught the water nor do they instantly make full speed. what it
looks to me is yet another gawker was going by and was not paying
attention to the helm (I assume he was looking in a camera or
something) and smashed into some one elses boat. happens all the
bloody time.

I assure you that when the Maltese Falcon turns, her stern slides
sideways for quite a distance. It would not be that hard for someone
in a much smaller boat to misjudge how much room was needed to avoid a
collision. This is not nearly as simple a situation as you seem to
think.

its pretty simple from my stand point you dont get close to another
boat unless you are planning to come along side. you avoid
collisions.

it comes down to a simple statement: you operate your vessel safely
and well clear of other vessels when you have the option. this fella
had the option and he decided to ignore a safe working distance.

If anything, he was simply as inexperienced as you.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Dog you have no idea of my experiance.

You've painted a picture.

On Oct 16, 1:30*pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
....
All your guesses mean NOTHING. Both boats were at fault as neither boat took
action to avoid a close quarters situation. Both captains were asleep at the
wheel and negligent. ...

That both were at fault is almost axiomatic. It took poor judgment by
both parties to get into the situation where we first see them in the
photographs. It is important and useful to point that out. I thought
I had made that clear before, but if not it is good of you to point it
out. However, the evidence we have is the series of photographs and a
short statement from the owner of MF both of them concerning the
minute or two before collision. By that time both had sinned by
getting into a dangerous situation. A post mortem of the evidence
that we have could help determine what actually happened and what
mistakes were made. From that one might apportion blame and credit
(if there is any) and learn something about what better options the
skippers might have had given the situation as it existed. I hope
there is more to be learned here than that "both captains were ...
negligent".

--Tom.

On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:30:48 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

(ii) such risk may sometimes exist even when an appreciable bearing change
is evident, particularly when approaching a very large vessel or a tow or
when approaching a vessel at close range.

This is an important point. With an approaching large vessel you
could take a bearing on the bow and get a changing angle, same on the
stern with the angle changing in the opposite direction. The end
result would be a collision amidships.

wrote
40 foot sailboats sail very close to each other all the time when
racing, so it doesn't seem that unusual.

Maybe, but I consider myself pretty darn close when I'm less than a boat
length from somebody. The difference in a racing situation is you expect
other boats to be there and you have a pretty good idea where they're
planning to go, to say nothing of the fact that you'll seldom run into one
ten times your size.

On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:01:23 -0400, "Ernest Scribbler"
wrote:

wrote
40 foot sailboats sail very close to each other all the time when
racing, so it doesn't seem that unusual.

Maybe, but I consider myself pretty darn close when I'm less than a boat
length from somebody. The difference in a racing situation is you expect
other boats to be there and you have a pretty good idea where they're
planning to go, to say nothing of the fact that you'll seldom run into one
ten times your size.


I was just pointing out that to many sailors, close quarters is not
unusual. That attitude may have played a part.

"Ernest Scribbler" wrote in message
news
wrote
40 foot sailboats sail very close to each other all the time when
racing, so it doesn't seem that unusual.

Maybe, but I consider myself pretty darn close when I'm less than a boat
length from somebody. The difference in a racing situation is you expect
other boats to be there and you have a pretty good idea where they're
planning to go, to say nothing of the fact that you'll seldom run into one
ten times your size.

I do also, but it's not all that unusual. However, I know I would not get
that close to 260' long boat if I could avoid it.

I don't think we have quite enough facts to decide who was primarily at
fault, but it seems to me that unless you're at anchor, sounding signals as
such, with the proper lights as required, AND you have six nuns aboard,
you're probably going to share some of the blame.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Oct 16, 2:36*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:10:13 -0700 (PDT), Two meter troll





wrote:
On Oct 16, 12:25*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 12:17:03 -0700 (PDT), Two meter troll

wrote:
On Oct 16, 11:47*am, wrote:
On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:32:45 -0700 (PDT), Two meter troll

wrote:
ummm......my thought was how stupid do you actually have to be to run
a 40' boat into the side of a 200' boat in day time with good
visability.
Then i read this page and yall act as if the guy in the 200' boat that
got nailed in the SIDE was at fault. most boats dont move sideways
throught the water nor do they instantly make full speed. what it
looks to me is yet another gawker was going by and was not paying
attention to the helm (I assume he was looking in a camera or
something) and smashed into some one elses boat. happens all the
bloody time.

I assure you that when the Maltese Falcon turns, her stern slides
sideways for quite a distance. It would not be that hard for someone
in a much smaller boat to misjudge how much room was needed to avoid a
collision. This is not nearly as simple a situation as you seem to
think.

its pretty simple from my stand point you dont get close to another
boat unless you are planning to come along side. you avoid
collisions.

it comes down to a simple statement: you operate your vessel safely
and well clear of other vessels when you have the option. this fella
had the option and he decided to ignore a safe working distance.

If anything, he was simply as inexperienced as you.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Dog you have no idea of my experiance.

You've painted a picture.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Actually i have not "painted a picture" as you put it.
You have accumulated a minimum of factual data and a maximum of
opinion, mine and others on this board and you think you know me.
Mostly what you have is my views of east coast sailors and that this
board is full of yachetys who have money and few boat brains. you have
several tidbits of emergancy repairs that work; scandelize those folks
who hang out in the white boat end of the marina and didn't come frome
some sour old fart in the pond. You have that i asked for a free sail
boat if someone had one rotting out back of the house. you also have
that i dont take just a batch pixels and trust them to the fullest.
you might infer that i think several of the stuffed shirts in this
group are much less than gods. lastly you know that I cannot spell. If
you had perhaps been paying attention you might know that i tend to
not be on the board for several months at a time.

pretty scanty picture (more like a doodle on a knapkin) i am at least
able to doodle effectivly.


o handle your other point.
yes, In a race boats are close to each other: where these boats in a
race?

On Oct 16, 5:27*pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Ernest Scribbler" wrote in message

news
wrote
40 foot sailboats sail very close to each other all the time when
racing, so it doesn't seem that unusual.

Maybe, but I consider myself pretty darn close when I'm less than a boat
length from somebody. The difference in a racing situation is you expect
other boats to be there and you have a pretty good idea where they're
planning to go, to say nothing of the fact that you'll seldom run into one
ten times your size.

I do also, but it's not all that unusual. However, I know I would not get
that close to 260' long boat if I could avoid it.

I don't think we have quite enough facts to decide who was primarily at
fault, but it seems to me that unless you're at anchor, sounding signals as
such, with the proper lights as required, AND you have six nuns aboard,
you're probably going to share some of the blame.

--
"j" ganz

Mr.Ganz you said a mouth full. i think the nuns might have to be
replaced by the pope these days.

Thanks... I don't know about replacing the nuns with the pope... I have a
pope-soap-on-a-rope someone gave me as a gift.... LOL

"Two meter troll" wrote in message
...
On Oct 16, 5:27 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Ernest Scribbler" wrote in message

news
wrote
40 foot sailboats sail very close to each other all the time when
racing, so it doesn't seem that unusual.

Maybe, but I consider myself pretty darn close when I'm less than a boat
length from somebody. The difference in a racing situation is you expect
other boats to be there and you have a pretty good idea where they're
planning to go, to say nothing of the fact that you'll seldom run into
one
ten times your size.

I do also, but it's not all that unusual. However, I know I would not get
that close to 260' long boat if I could avoid it.

I don't think we have quite enough facts to decide who was primarily at
fault, but it seems to me that unless you're at anchor, sounding signals
as
such, with the proper lights as required, AND you have six nuns aboard,
you're probably going to share some of the blame.

--
"j" ganz

Mr.Ganz you said a mouth full. i think the nuns might have to be
replaced by the pope these days.



--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com