nospam wrote in
:


There is no limit to the abuse the American public will willingly
accept. If I forefathers were to learn of the abuse we tolerate from
the myriad of expanding "police entities" they would weep with shame
at the nation of sheep we have become.


What I cannot understand is the flames anyone, who dares question why this
goes on on the water, must endure from those who support these tactics.....

Larry W4CSC wrote:

What I cannot understand is the flames anyone, who dares question why this
goes on on the water, must endure from those who support these tactics.....

Because By God if you don't agree with MY reasoning why you're just a ______

You can fill in the blank and go directly to jail.

--
A morsel of genuine history is a thing so rare as to be always valuable.
-- Thomas Jefferson

Larry W4CSC wrote:

What I cannot understand is the flames anyone, who dares question why this
goes on on the water, must endure from those who support these tactics.....

Because By God if you don't agree with MY reasoning why you're just a ______

You can fill in the blank and go directly to jail.

--
A morsel of genuine history is a thing so rare as to be always valuable.
-- Thomas Jefferson

In article , (Chuck Baier) wrote:
Paul, That is exactly what these agencies count on. Chuck



Possibly, but unless one could sue individual government agents for violating
one's rights there is no disincentive for them to continue. Your avoidance of
a fine costs the agent who violated your rights nothing.



(Paul Revere) wrote in message
news:SYThc.43832$bl.29899@okepread03...
In article ,
wrote:
On 20 Apr 2004 13:14:11 GMT, (Capt Lou) wrote
(with possible editing):

Massachusetts State Police (known as the Environmental Police on the water)
claim they can board any vessel without probable cause because they have
been
"deputized" as federal agents by U.S. Customs. Does anyone know anything
about
this?

IANAL, but my limited understanding of the law is that if you are
boarded illegally and a ticket results, any lawyer can defeat it in
court by simply proving the search was illegal and that the officer
lacked probable cause to board you in the first place. If there's a
lawyer around, perhaps he can confirm that.

If itt costs you time in court and a lawyer's fee instead of a fine, is that
an improvement?

In article , (Chuck Baier) wrote:
Paul, That is exactly what these agencies count on. Chuck



Possibly, but unless one could sue individual government agents for violating
one's rights there is no disincentive for them to continue. Your avoidance of
a fine costs the agent who violated your rights nothing.



(Paul Revere) wrote in message
news:SYThc.43832$bl.29899@okepread03...
In article ,
wrote:
On 20 Apr 2004 13:14:11 GMT, (Capt Lou) wrote
(with possible editing):

Massachusetts State Police (known as the Environmental Police on the water)
claim they can board any vessel without probable cause because they have
been
"deputized" as federal agents by U.S. Customs. Does anyone know anything
about
this?

IANAL, but my limited understanding of the law is that if you are
boarded illegally and a ticket results, any lawyer can defeat it in
court by simply proving the search was illegal and that the officer
lacked probable cause to board you in the first place. If there's a
lawyer around, perhaps he can confirm that.

If itt costs you time in court and a lawyer's fee instead of a fine, is that
an improvement?

That's the name of the game. They don't care WHO you pay some money to, just
that it costs you. Remember, the judges used to be lawyers so they take care
of their own.

Besides, when the big guy with the gun comes a-callin' do you really think
you're going to tell him "no"?

--


Keith
__
Boating isn't dangerous. Sinking is what's dangerous.
"Paul Revere" wrote in message
news:SYThc.43832$bl.29899@okepread03...
In article ,
wrote:
On 20 Apr 2004 13:14:11 GMT, (Capt Lou) wrote
(with possible editing):

Massachusetts State Police (known as the Environmental Police on the
water)
claim they can board any vessel without probable cause because they have
been
"deputized" as federal agents by U.S. Customs. Does anyone know anything
about
this?

IANAL, but my limited understanding of the law is that if you are
boarded illegally and a ticket results, any lawyer can defeat it in
court by simply proving the search was illegal and that the officer
lacked probable cause to board you in the first place. If there's a
lawyer around, perhaps he can confirm that.

If itt costs you time in court and a lawyer's fee instead of a fine, is
that
an improvement?

That's the name of the game. They don't care WHO you pay some money to, just
that it costs you. Remember, the judges used to be lawyers so they take care
of their own.

Besides, when the big guy with the gun comes a-callin' do you really think
you're going to tell him "no"?

--


Keith
__
Boating isn't dangerous. Sinking is what's dangerous.
"Paul Revere" wrote in message
news:SYThc.43832$bl.29899@okepread03...
In article ,
wrote:
On 20 Apr 2004 13:14:11 GMT, (Capt Lou) wrote
(with possible editing):

Massachusetts State Police (known as the Environmental Police on the
water)
claim they can board any vessel without probable cause because they have
been
"deputized" as federal agents by U.S. Customs. Does anyone know anything
about
this?

IANAL, but my limited understanding of the law is that if you are
boarded illegally and a ticket results, any lawyer can defeat it in
court by simply proving the search was illegal and that the officer
lacked probable cause to board you in the first place. If there's a
lawyer around, perhaps he can confirm that.

If itt costs you time in court and a lawyer's fee instead of a fine, is
that
an improvement?

IANAL, but my limited understanding of the law is that if you are
boarded illegally and a ticket results, any lawyer can defeat it in
court by simply proving the search was illegal and that the officer
lacked probable cause to board you in the first place. If there's a
lawyer around, perhaps he can confirm that.

If itt costs you time in court and a lawyer's fee instead of a fine,
is that an improvement?

I hate to tell you this but Maritime Law/Admiralty Law/Law of the sea etc is
TOTALLY different than land based laws in the US. Most striking is that here
in the US you are innocent until proven guilty, In maritime law, in most
instances, you are considered guilty unless proven innocent!
Another difference that many have seen is the illegality of gambling casinos
on land, but legal on the water (not just offshore, but on navigable rivers
and lakes).
Ever wonder why the coast guard can do things that state law enforcement
can't? Two reasons, A) they are federal and B) they operate under Maritime
law instead of land law.

For all sorts of interesting (but very boring) information, check
http://www.admiraltylawguide.com/

IANAL, but my limited understanding of the law is that if you are
boarded illegally and a ticket results, any lawyer can defeat it in
court by simply proving the search was illegal and that the officer
lacked probable cause to board you in the first place. If there's a
lawyer around, perhaps he can confirm that.

If itt costs you time in court and a lawyer's fee instead of a fine,
is that an improvement?

I hate to tell you this but Maritime Law/Admiralty Law/Law of the sea etc is
TOTALLY different than land based laws in the US. Most striking is that here
in the US you are innocent until proven guilty, In maritime law, in most
instances, you are considered guilty unless proven innocent!
Another difference that many have seen is the illegality of gambling casinos
on land, but legal on the water (not just offshore, but on navigable rivers
and lakes).
Ever wonder why the coast guard can do things that state law enforcement
can't? Two reasons, A) they are federal and B) they operate under Maritime
law instead of land law.

For all sorts of interesting (but very boring) information, check
http://www.admiraltylawguide.com/

Was having lunch yesterday at the café in the Marina. NH State Marine Patrol
boat comes in, docks and the too occupants come into the café. I strike up a
conversation regarding their new launch, and mention that I had familiarity
with the old one.

In 2002 they had come up behind me while I was waiting for the bridge in
front of the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard.

NO running lights,
NO radio Hail.
Just a sudden spotlight on the helm from about 50 yds and a demand that I
shut off my engine and stand by to be boarded. No identification in that
hail.

I yelled back over my diesel that I was NOT going to shut down my engine in
3 kts current that would sweep me into a Federal Security zone for anyone,
and who the hell were they.

They then identified themselves. I told them that I was still not standing
too as I was in MAINE Waters off the shipyard and that if they wanted me to
wait on the other side of the bridge which had just raised for me I would be
glad to do so, IF they put fenders down.

After another hail the proceeded to tell me my steaming light was out.

The funny thing about this is that this year the Marine patrol was trying to
blame that one on the Coast Guard.


Your milage may vary.

Sheldon.




--
Sheldon Haynie
Texas Instruments
50 Phillipe Cote
Manchester, NH 03101
603 222 8652