wrote

Please Roger, 99.9999999...% of parents would not let their kids do
this. We're so far out of the normal bounds of appropriate parenting
that they probably don't provide any useful guidance.

My perspective is probably not quite normal. When I was Zac's age, my
parents took me up to Lake George in my ten foot boat with a boom tent,
said, "Call us when you're ready to come home.", and drove away. It was
only a large lake but I came a lot closer to dying than Zac has so far.

If nothing else, requiring twice a day reports greatly increases Zac's
workload and when he gets tired the priority will be working the boat
and the pos reports will just have to wait.

That's an excellent point.

--
Roger Long

To Wilbur and your sock puppets.....

Guys or girls: Stumble to the fridge (or the cooler by your side),
unscrew the lid, take a long pull, find the recline arm to your Bark-
oh- me lounger and dream up another way to criticize a young lad for
attempting something that you, on your absolute best day, could never
comprehend trying, must less executing.

Then after five, six ot ten more, drift off to the comfortable rocking
of your pitiful little derelict barely floating barge, knowing that if
something should go amiss during the night, the short tied docklines
will keep you afloat until the Coast Guard arrives.

Sleep well little troll.

On Sep 8, 4:07*pm, "Roger Long" wrote:
....
My perspective is probably not quite normal. *When I was Zac's age, my
parents took me up to Lake George in my ten foot boat with a boom tent,
said, "Call us when you're ready to come home.", and drove away. *It was
only a large lake but I came a lot closer to dying than Zac has so far. ....

That's fine. My folks let me do some pretty crazy stuff, too. I have
not and do not intend to make a judgment about the decision to let Zac
go. I'm wishing the young man all the best and always have. My
complaint is that his PARENTS called the Oz Coast Guard because Zac
hadn't phoned home in 18 hours. If they are going to let him go, they
have to let him go.

-- Tom.

In article ,
says...
wrote

Please Roger, 99.9999999...% of parents would not let their kids do
this. We're so far out of the normal bounds of appropriate parenting
that they probably don't provide any useful guidance.

My perspective is probably not quite normal. When I was Zac's age, my
parents took me up to Lake George in my ten foot boat with a boom tent,
said, "Call us when you're ready to come home.", and drove away. It was
only a large lake but I came a lot closer to dying than Zac has so far.

If nothing else, requiring twice a day reports greatly increases Zac's
workload and when he gets tired the priority will be working the boat
and the pos reports will just have to wait.

That's an excellent point.

--
Roger Long

This idea of "he's too young" seems to be a modern misconception as
history shows may instances of young people doing things that they would
be considered "too young" to do in this modern age. Edward IV was
crowned king of England after leading his army in battle for a year or
more - age 19. Audie Murphy, one of the highest decorated soldiers in WW
II enlisted at 17. During the Civil War I believe that people as young
as 12 years old were found to have enlisted and served. My grandfather
was married at 17 and working his own farm at that age.

It could be said that at 16 Zac lacks experience but that can be said
for a large segment of the yachting world, so the worst that can be said
is that he is going to miss a year of school and I suggest that the
experiences gained in having to depend on his own efforts for a year
will more then compensate for the delay in finishing high school.

--
Cheers,

Bruce in Bangkok

Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

This idea of "he's too young" seems to be a modern misconception as
history shows may instances of young people doing things that they would
be considered "too young" to do in this modern age.

This is related to some stupid religious nonsense that caused America to
stretch out the "age of consent" back when the city people forced the
mountain people to stop arranged marriages between old men and young girls
just into puberty.

There's some kind of religious guilt trip the control freaks on top of the
pyramid use to keep them in control (and keep the money flowing up the
stack, of course).

Hell, in many parts of the world, any girl 16 and not already married are
considered a family shame.

This "too young" nonsense spreads, curiously, to all facets of American
life EXCEPT where it serves the elite masters' purposes, such as 18 year
olds used as cannon fodder in wars, for instance. 18 year old males are
plenty old enough to hold automatic weapons to kill the elite's enemies,
but not old enough to drink beer without worrying about being arrested, a
really stupid concept to be sure.

Using teenagers as warriors goes way back. I can see their reasoning as
children, including 18-year-olds, will still blindly follow orders, where,
if they waited until they were 21 they'd start thinking too independently
and might refuse to participate in genocide of foreign populations (Iraq,
Afghanistan, the former Yugoslavia, Vietnam, etc.)

This kid at 16 is less than 2 years away from becoming a government-trained
military killer the Illuminati can use as Israel's proxy army. He's plenty
old to go sailing off on his own, now.

On Sep 8, 8:22*pm, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
....
This idea of "he's too young" seems to be a modern misconception as
history shows may instances of young people doing things that they would
be considered "too young" to do in this modern age. ...

Just to be clear I am not arguing that Zac is too young. I don't
believe that competence and age are all that closely correlated. I
don't know the person in question so I'm not able to judge his
abilities. My beef isn't that they sent him off anyway. The problem
is that they let him go but are demanding that he check in all the
time. Either he's competent or he isn't. He can be supported but he
can't be sailed around the world over the sat phone. I'm quite
familiar with Iridium and HF comms and I can assure you that they will
go wrong from time to time. There will be days when Zac will not be
able to call home and his folks either need to accept that or they
shouldn't let him go at all. Calling the coast guard because he
missed one position report is just not right. To quote that great
telegram from _Swallows and Amazons_ "better drowned than duffers, if
not duffers won't drown." Zac's folks have to decide if they think
he's a duffer or not and then live with that decision.

-- Tom.

On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 22:20:53 -0700, wrote:

On Sep 8, 8:22Â*pm, Bruce in Bangkok wrote: ...
This idea of "he's too young" seems to be a modern misconception as
history shows may instances of young people doing things that they
would be considered "too young" to do in this modern age. ...

Just to be clear I am not arguing that Zac is too young. I don't
believe that competence and age are all that closely correlated. I
don't know the person in question so I'm not able to judge his
abilities. My beef isn't that they sent him off anyway. The problem is
that they let him go but are demanding that he check in all the time.
Either he's competent or he isn't. He can be supported but he can't be
sailed around the world over the sat phone. I'm quite familiar with
Iridium and HF comms and I can assure you that they will go wrong from
time to time. There will be days when Zac will not be able to call home
and his folks either need to accept that or they shouldn't let him go at
all. Calling the coast guard because he missed one position report is
just not right. To quote that great telegram from _Swallows and
Amazons_ "better drowned than duffers, if not duffers won't drown."
Zac's folks have to decide if they think he's a duffer or not and then
live with that decision.

-- Tom.


I guess that is normal. A mate who is always going somewhere usually e-
mails me a daily position report and I know that if he misses one I begin
to wonder where/what he is. Since Roger mentioned the blog I did read the
panic portion and I thought they were a bit extreme calling everyone
under the sun when he failed to check in. On the other hand, he is not my
kid and perhaps if he were I'd feel different.


--
Cheers,

Bruce in Bangkok

On Sep 9, 1:39*am, Bruce wrote:
On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 22:20:53 -0700, wrote:
On Sep 8, 8:22*pm, Bruce in Bangkok wrote: ...
This idea of "he's too young" seems to be a modern misconception as
history shows may instances of young people doing things that they
would be considered "too young" to do in this modern age. ...

Just to be clear I am not arguing that Zac is too young. *I don't
believe that competence and age are all that closely correlated. *I
don't know the person in question so I'm not able to judge his
abilities. *My beef isn't that they sent him off anyway. *The problem is
that they let him go but are demanding that he check in all the time.
Either he's competent or he isn't. *He can be supported but he can't be
sailed around the world over the sat phone. I'm quite familiar with
Iridium and HF comms and I can assure you that they will go wrong from
time to time. *There will be days when Zac will not be able to call home
and his folks either need to accept that or they shouldn't let him go at
all. *Calling the coast guard because he missed one position report is
just not right. *To quote that great telegram from _Swallows and
Amazons_ "better drowned than duffers, if not duffers won't drown."
Zac's folks have to decide if they think he's a duffer or not and then
live with that decision.

-- Tom.

I guess that is normal. A mate who is always going somewhere usually e-
mails me a daily position report and I know that if he misses one I begin
to wonder where/what he is. Since Roger mentioned the blog I did read the
panic portion and I thought they were a bit extreme calling everyone
under the sun when he failed to check in. On the other hand, he is not my
kid and perhaps if he were I'd feel different.

--
Cheers,

Bruce in Bangkok- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Zac, God love him, is not the first young person to try this.

Robin Lee Graham at age 16 departed San Pedro, CA in September 1965
aboard a 24 foot Lapworth sloop. Graham returned in January to San
Pedro in January 1970 after a solo circumnavigation. He made stops in
Hawaii, islands in the South Pacific, Australia, South Africa, the
Caribbean, and South America and Central Americas. He arrived back
with a spouse and a bigger boat (a 33-foot sloop rigged 33 foot Allied
Luders). I had been around boats all my life but fell in love with
boating, in part, reading accounts of his trip.

Was it risky? Heck Yeah. Was it worth it? Ask Graham, but I suspect
the answer would be swift and in the affirmative.

God Speed Zac and may the rest of you enjoy fair winds and a following
sea.

John