On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 12:35:06 -0700 (PDT), "Ken Heaton, Cape Breton
Island, Nova Scotia" wrote:

On Aug 29, 7:31*pm, "Roger Long" wrote:
"terry" wrote

By end 2009 Canadian all recreational boaters will be required to
possess suitable qualifications.

Do you know if there will be any requirements for visiting cruisers such as
having an equivelent certificater or training in their home country?

--
Roger Long

Hi Roger, no requirement unless you stay 45 or more consecutive days.

I looked it up at: http://www.tc.gc.ca/acts-regulations...08/csa108.html


A quote: See 3. (2) (b) below:

3. (1) Subject to subsection (2), no person shall operate a pleasure
craft unless the person

(a) is competent to operate the pleasure craft in accordance with
section 4; and

(b) has proof of competency on board.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to a person who

(a) is operating the pleasure craft under the supervision of an
instructor, as part of an accredited course;

(b) is not a resident of Canada and whose pleasure craft is in Canada
for less than 45 consecutive days; or

(c) was born before April 2, 1983, has proof of age on board and
operates a pleasure craft of at least 4 m in length before September
15, 2009; or

(d) has proof on board that they hold a MED-A4 certificate or any
certificate referred to in paragraphs 2(a) to (s), (z.18) or (z.43) of
the Marine Certification Regulations.

I'm assuming that a USCG Master's ticket would be sufficient proof ?

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 09:29:41 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 12:35:06 -0700 (PDT), "Ken Heaton, Cape Breton
Island, Nova Scotia" wrote:

On Aug 29, 7:31*pm, "Roger Long" wrote:
"terry" wrote

By end 2009 Canadian all recreational boaters will be required to
possess suitable qualifications.

Do you know if there will be any requirements for visiting cruisers such as
having an equivelent certificater or training in their home country?

--
Roger Long

Hi Roger, no requirement unless you stay 45 or more consecutive days.

I looked it up at: http://www.tc.gc.ca/acts-regulations...08/csa108.html


A quote: See 3. (2) (b) below:

3. (1) Subject to subsection (2), no person shall operate a pleasure
craft unless the person

(a) is competent to operate the pleasure craft in accordance with
section 4; and

(b) has proof of competency on board.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to a person who

(a) is operating the pleasure craft under the supervision of an
instructor, as part of an accredited course;

(b) is not a resident of Canada and whose pleasure craft is in Canada
for less than 45 consecutive days; or

(c) was born before April 2, 1983, has proof of age on board and
operates a pleasure craft of at least 4 m in length before September
15, 2009; or

(d) has proof on board that they hold a MED-A4 certificate or any
certificate referred to in paragraphs 2(a) to (s), (z.18) or (z.43) of
the Marine Certification Regulations.

I'm assuming that a USCG Master's ticket would be sufficient proof ?

I think that in CT, at least, someone with a USCG Master's ticket
would still have to obtain a CT safe boating certificate to operate
recreational craft or PWC's. You can skip the 8 hour class and just
take the test (and pay the fees) Actually, anyone can do it that way
if they feel confident that they can pass the test without the class.
Not recommended, though, as the test is geared to topics covered in
the class, and if you don't pass, you have a waiting period before you
can pay again and take the test again.

Just because you can operate a large tug boat, does not mean you know
how to operate a PWC, any more than it means you know how to drive a
tractor trailer, fly an airplane. or ski down Mt. Everest.

On Aug 31, 2:41*pm, wrote:
....
I think that in CT, at least, someone with a USCG Master's ticket
would still have to obtain a CT safe boating certificate to operate
recreational craft or PWC's. ...

That's an interesting thought. It would mean, I presume, that a
person with a master's license could take up to 6 people out on his
own boat for hire but would not be able to cruise it for pleasure...
Wouldn't that be odd. I'm no lawyer and I'm sure one of the local law
critters will point out my errors but I think a federal license that
gives you the right to operate a boat must be recognized by a state.
No?

Just because you can operate a large tug boat, does not mean you know
how to operate a PWC, any more than it means you know how to drive a
tractor trailer, fly an airplane. or ski down Mt. Everest.

Are you joking? A person with a master's license will have a very
good handle on COLREGS and some familiarity with the applicable CFR
chapters and a lot more to loose if he gets busted breaking the law
than a person with just an operators license. There are a few laws
that vary from state to state but I strongly suspect that most pros
could pick them up with a quick glance at the state's boating
handbook. Otherwise, they're likely to have mastered much more
material than will be presented in a state licensing course. YMMV but
I've spent time in small boats with professional mariners and they
were very fine boat operators. And, of course, if you can operate a
tug you can almost certainly operate a PWC (at least a sit down
one).

-- Tom.

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:30:30 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Aug 31, 2:41*pm, wrote:
...
I think that in CT, at least, someone with a USCG Master's ticket
would still have to obtain a CT safe boating certificate to operate
recreational craft or PWC's. ...

That's an interesting thought. It would mean, I presume, that a
person with a master's license could take up to 6 people out on his
own boat for hire but would not be able to cruise it for pleasure...
Wouldn't that be odd. I'm no lawyer and I'm sure one of the local law
critters will point out my errors but I think a federal license that
gives you the right to operate a boat must be recognized by a state.
No?


No.

Just because you can operate a large tug boat, does not mean you know
how to operate a PWC, any more than it means you know how to drive a
tractor trailer, fly an airplane. or ski down Mt. Everest.

Are you joking? A person with a master's license will have a very
good handle on COLREGS and some familiarity with the applicable CFR
chapters and a lot more to loose if he gets busted breaking the law
than a person with just an operators license.

The test covers a lot of things that are not simply laws or COLREGS.

They even have a separate test for PWC's. A regular boating license
doesn't cover those, because they feel you should know things like how
to maintain steerage in an emergency. If you are about to hit
something while on a Jet Ski, instinctively closing the throttle is
the worst thing you could do. They don't have rudders. The jet blast
is how you steer. To avoid collision, you often ACCELERATE to be able
to turn sharper. A person with a master's license may not know that.
It wasn't in any of the tests or classes he took to get that ticket.

That's just ONE example. So far, it looks like you couldn't pass the
test. You don't even know what questions to ask.

There are a few laws
that vary from state to state but I strongly suspect that most pros
could pick them up with a quick glance at the state's boating
handbook. Otherwise, they're likely to have mastered much more
material than will be presented in a state licensing course.

More, perhaps, but not the same, and not a complete overlapping. How
much does a "pro" know about launching a boat at a boat ramp? Did you
know that you are not supposed to "power on" and "power off" a trailer
on a public boat ramp, using the boats motor to force a stuck boat on
or off the trailer? Do you know why? It's on the test.

YMMV but
I've spent time in small boats with professional mariners and they
were very fine boat operators. And, of course, if you can operate a
tug you can almost certainly operate a PWC (at least a sit down
one).

See, that's where you are wrong. Very wrong. It's a different skill
set.

On Aug 31, 5:03*pm, wrote:
... I think a federal license that
gives you the right to operate a boat must be recognized by a state.
No?

No.

Really? What about the supremacy clause of the Constitution? You're
saying that if the feds grant a license that allows one to be master
of a motor vessel that Connecticut can make a law that voids the
federal license in CT? As I say I'm no expert but that seems so wrong
that I wonder if you could explain how it would work.

Except to say that PWCs aren't the only thrust vectored vessels and
that they and z-drives, outboards, i/o's, other jet craft, etc are
pretty well understood by professionals I'm not going to bother with
your straw man arguments. Generally professional mariners are
experienced, knowledgeable and careful. As a class I think that they
are better qualified to operate vessels than recreational boaters
who's only cert is a safe boating course.

-- Tom.

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 18:09:48 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

... I'm not going to bother with
your straw man arguments. Generally professional mariners are
experienced, knowledgeable and careful. ...
-- Tom.


Not necessarily straw-men. An airline pilot with an atr, perhaps
backed with a cpl multiengine - ir, is not permited to fly a single
alone until he obtains that class

Brian W

Brian Whatcott wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 18:09:48 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:


... I'm not going to bother with
your straw man arguments. Generally professional mariners are
experienced, knowledgeable and careful. ...
-- Tom.



Not necessarily straw-men. An airline pilot with an atr, perhaps
backed with a cpl multiengine - ir, is not permited to fly a single
alone until he obtains that class

Brian W



That's just plain not true.

try again

--

Richard

(remove the X to email)

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:41:18 -0400, wrote:

I think that in CT, at least, someone with a USCG Master's ticket
would still have to obtain a CT safe boating certificate to operate
recreational craft or PWC's.

I've been operating pleasure boats in CT on and off for over 30 years,
first as a NY resident, now FL. As far as I'm concerned I am
grandfathered but who knows. Let's set up a test case, might be fun.
You can turn me in next summer for failure to have a certificate.

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 18:09:48 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Aug 31, 5:03*pm, wrote:
... I think a federal license that
gives you the right to operate a boat must be recognized by a state.
No?

No.

Really? What about the supremacy clause of the Constitution? You're
saying that if the feds grant a license that allows one to be master
of a motor vessel that Connecticut can make a law that voids the
federal license in CT? As I say I'm no expert but that seems so wrong
that I wonder if you could explain how it would work.


I already explained it, and quite clearly, but you are apparently in
the throes of a thickness attack. An expert on oranges is not an
expert on apples, although there is some overlapping knowledge. CT
does not require a liscence. They require a "Safe Boating
Certificate". It has requirements that are not covered by any USCG
license.



Except to say that PWCs aren't the only thrust vectored vessels and
that they and z-drives, outboards, i/o's, other jet craft, etc are
pretty well understood by professionals I'm not going to bother with
your straw man arguments. Generally professional mariners are
experienced, knowledgeable and careful. As a class I think that they
are better qualified to operate vessels than recreational boaters
who's only cert is a safe boating course.

-- Tom.


None of which matters one bit. You need a Safe Boating Certificate in
CT. A Master Mariner's ticket doesn't cut it, because it is for
something else, with different requirements.

On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 02:11:25 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:41:18 -0400, wrote:

I think that in CT, at least, someone with a USCG Master's ticket
would still have to obtain a CT safe boating certificate to operate
recreational craft or PWC's.

I've been operating pleasure boats in CT on and off for over 30 years,
first as a NY resident, now FL. As far as I'm concerned I am
grandfathered but who knows. Let's set up a test case, might be fun.
You can turn me in next summer for failure to have a certificate.

Sure. Sounds like fun. Let me know when you have exceeded the time
limit, and where they can find you. The Courant will want to do a four
part series on your trial, I'm sure!

For the record, you are not grandfathered in. I was when they first
instituted the Safe Boatuing Certificate, but they phased that out
early on.

If you read the CT Safe Boating Guide booklet as prep, you could
probably just take the test at DEP headquarters and skip the classroom
time. Mostly enforcenment happens when you are busted for something
else and they discover you don't have the cert. I don't think the CG
will even write you up for it. You have to get popped by local law
enforcement, or DEP.