On Sun, 03 Aug 2008 09:42:59 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote:

I'm hardly a professional rigger, but I've observed lee shrouds loose on
many boats w/o adverse consequences. I think if you have the rig so taut
as the lee shrouds are tight AND you have deformed the hull to point
that you can't open a sole hatch, you have things a bit too tense.

Do you have a rigging text aboard? Maybe others with more experience on
your specific rig can chime in here.


Lee shrouds being less taunt the windward stays is normal. the
question is how much looser. Apparently the Pig's are loose enough
that the mast boot works loose.

Another problem he seems to have is that when he tightens up the
shrouds it deforms the boat. the usual cure for that is a tie rod
between the mast step and the underside of the deck.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:


Another problem he seems to have is that when he tightens up the
shrouds it deforms the boat. the usual cure for that is a tie rod
between the mast step and the underside of the deck.


I was trying to be gentle. If he's deforming his boat at the PROPER
shroud tension, he's sailing a POS which shouldn't be in commission. If
he's deforming a well made boat, then he's not at the proper tension.

I didn't want to say it so out and out but there, I have.

On Sun, 03 Aug 2008 18:37:04 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:


Another problem he seems to have is that when he tightens up the
shrouds it deforms the boat. the usual cure for that is a tie rod
between the mast step and the underside of the deck.


I was trying to be gentle. If he's deforming his boat at the PROPER
shroud tension, he's sailing a POS which shouldn't be in commission. If
he's deforming a well made boat, then he's not at the proper tension.

I didn't want to say it so out and out but there, I have.


I have a deck stepped mast but from what I read all keel stepped masts
will deform when the shrouds are tensioned. The usual fix if a "tie
rod" which is bolted to the deck and the mast step to prevent the deck
from flexing upward. Apparently this is a normal trait of keel stepped
boats


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:


I have a deck stepped mast but from what I read all keel stepped masts
will deform when the shrouds are tensioned. The usual fix if a "tie
rod" which is bolted to the deck and the mast step to prevent the deck
from flexing upward. Apparently this is a normal trait of keel stepped
boats


I disagree that the boat should flex enough that he can't get the sole
hatches open w/o a struggle. Any reasonable boat design needs to
consider the rig being in proper tension.

I understand the tie rod you mention and would think that an issue on a
boat like an O'Day but on a seagoing vessel?

So here you are in the Morgan showroom taking delivery of your new
Morgan XXX. The salesman tells you if you actually sail the thing, you
can either buy a tie rod because the boat is improperly designed or you
can forget opening any hatches below because the boat is improperly
designed.

Seems perfectly incredible to me - either scenario.

On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 17:26:36 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:


I have a deck stepped mast but from what I read all keel stepped masts
will deform when the shrouds are tensioned. The usual fix if a "tie
rod" which is bolted to the deck and the mast step to prevent the deck
from flexing upward. Apparently this is a normal trait of keel stepped
boats


I disagree that the boat should flex enough that he can't get the sole
hatches open w/o a struggle. Any reasonable boat design needs to
consider the rig being in proper tension.

I understand the tie rod you mention and would think that an issue on a
boat like an O'Day but on a seagoing vessel?

So here you are in the Morgan showroom taking delivery of your new
Morgan XXX. The salesman tells you if you actually sail the thing, you
can either buy a tie rod because the boat is improperly designed or you
can forget opening any hatches below because the boat is improperly
designed.

Seems perfectly incredible to me - either scenario.

First of all, you appear to be combining several posts into one.
Specifically mine about tie rods and someone else about hatches.

You can imagine anything you wish, however, the Pardy's wrote about
the installation of a tie rod in their second boat and while I hate to
quote them as an authority about anything they have probably sailed
more miles then most. I have also seen tie rods installed in keel
stepped boat of all sizes, shapes and material so I assume that there
is a reason, just as there is a reason for some boats having tie rods
connecting the chain plates, to the keel (again in a keel stepped
boat).


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 17:26:36 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:

I have a deck stepped mast but from what I read all keel stepped masts
will deform when the shrouds are tensioned. The usual fix if a "tie
rod" which is bolted to the deck and the mast step to prevent the deck
from flexing upward. Apparently this is a normal trait of keel stepped
boats

I disagree that the boat should flex enough that he can't get the sole
hatches open w/o a struggle. Any reasonable boat design needs to
consider the rig being in proper tension.

I understand the tie rod you mention and would think that an issue on a
boat like an O'Day but on a seagoing vessel?

So here you are in the Morgan showroom taking delivery of your new
Morgan XXX. The salesman tells you if you actually sail the thing, you
can either buy a tie rod because the boat is improperly designed or you
can forget opening any hatches below because the boat is improperly
designed.

Seems perfectly incredible to me - either scenario.

First of all, you appear to be combining several posts into one.
Specifically mine about tie rods and someone else about hatches.

You can imagine anything you wish, however, the Pardy's wrote about
the installation of a tie rod in their second boat and while I hate to
quote them as an authority about anything they have probably sailed
more miles then most. I have also seen tie rods installed in keel
stepped boat of all sizes, shapes and material so I assume that there
is a reason, just as there is a reason for some boats having tie rods
connecting the chain plates, to the keel (again in a keel stepped
boat).


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

My Pearson 365 ketch was built with the tie rod setup.
Also, it doesn't need to be a rod, rigging wire would work as well.
Gordon