What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

I've read a few books by Don Street and have a couple sailing videos of his
as well. I respect his knowledge while I consider him a bit excentric. His
boats and sailing gear and methods always seem well on to the "Salty Side"
of the scale. One thing for sure, "Don doesn't have to explain" why he does
the things he does when it comes to onboard routines". At least that's the
impression I get..

I have watched his sailing video of one of his Atlantic crossing on "Isle
Aire" with a crew that seemed to worship him and his ways.

One thing from that video that leaves me with a question that I haven't been
able to resolve.

Don, goes on a rant about someone putting a figure "8" Stopper Knot in the
end of a sheet. Something I have been doing for 40 years of sailing. To me,
it keeps the lazy sheet from being pulled through the sheet lead block.
Anyway, if there was a reason for "not" putting a Stopper Knot in the sheet
end, it must have been edited out of the footage I have seen and no where in
his books does he mentions a reason (that I can recall).

How about it, can anyone persuade me not to put a Stopper Knot in my
sheets??

(You see, I'm getting old and grouchy to.)

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

How about it, can anyone persuade me not to put a Stopper Knot in my
sheets??

(You see, I'm getting old and grouchy to.)


A stopper knot could prevent you from dumping the sheet in an emergency,
probably more important with spinnakers and large genoas than jibs.

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

How about it, can anyone persuade me not to put a Stopper Knot in my
sheets??

(You see, I'm getting old and grouchy to.)


A stopper knot could prevent you from dumping the sheet in an emergency,
probably more important with spinnakers and large genoas than jibs.

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

Steve wrote in message
...

How about it, can anyone persuade me not to put a Stopper Knot
in my
sheets??

When I was working rigs using natural fibre (that shows my age .
.. .) one of my gnarled old skippers insisted on never using
stopper knots. His reason: if you tied a stopper knot in a dry
(natural fibre) rope, strained it tight, then it became wet, the
rope swelled and the knot became more difficult to undo.

He was talking in the context of gaff rigged vessels whose
halyards were double ended, with a purchase on one of the ends.
The significance of this was that when you had to lower the gaff
in a big hurry, you needed to be able to release only one end and
let it unreeve - and a stopper knot, especially a wet one tied
dry, slowed down this emergency action.

He extended this view to all ropes. His view on sheets was that
if you allow the habit in one place, it may spread.

His view was also that if you allowed a rope to unreeve
accidentally, your seamanship was wanting, and you needed a
lesson in re-reeving to remind you of your error!

You could call him a traditionalist.

With modern fibres, jamming is not an issue, and with modern rigs
the penalty of losing a halyard end up the inside of the mast is
a penalty I'd prefer to avoid. Sheets? well, they're easy to
re-reeve, though the whipping you may suffer in a strong wind is
a bit of a dis-incentive. So I can't persuade me not to use
stopper knots.

One of his habits I still keep though - I never use hitches (some
call them jamming turns) on a cleat, and on my boat I prefer
others not to use them. But I'm not going to try to convert the
rest of the world to this view. It's just my quirk, and a good
way of letting me know if anyone has been adjusting my warps for
me!

JimB

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

Steve wrote in message
...

How about it, can anyone persuade me not to put a Stopper Knot
in my
sheets??

When I was working rigs using natural fibre (that shows my age .
.. .) one of my gnarled old skippers insisted on never using
stopper knots. His reason: if you tied a stopper knot in a dry
(natural fibre) rope, strained it tight, then it became wet, the
rope swelled and the knot became more difficult to undo.

He was talking in the context of gaff rigged vessels whose
halyards were double ended, with a purchase on one of the ends.
The significance of this was that when you had to lower the gaff
in a big hurry, you needed to be able to release only one end and
let it unreeve - and a stopper knot, especially a wet one tied
dry, slowed down this emergency action.

He extended this view to all ropes. His view on sheets was that
if you allow the habit in one place, it may spread.

His view was also that if you allowed a rope to unreeve
accidentally, your seamanship was wanting, and you needed a
lesson in re-reeving to remind you of your error!

You could call him a traditionalist.

With modern fibres, jamming is not an issue, and with modern rigs
the penalty of losing a halyard end up the inside of the mast is
a penalty I'd prefer to avoid. Sheets? well, they're easy to
re-reeve, though the whipping you may suffer in a strong wind is
a bit of a dis-incentive. So I can't persuade me not to use
stopper knots.

One of his habits I still keep though - I never use hitches (some
call them jamming turns) on a cleat, and on my boat I prefer
others not to use them. But I'm not going to try to convert the
rest of the world to this view. It's just my quirk, and a good
way of letting me know if anyone has been adjusting my warps for
me!

JimB

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

Steve wrote:

Don, goes on a rant about someone putting a figure "8" Stopper Knot
in the end of a sheet. Something I have been doing for 40 years of
sailing. To me, it keeps the lazy sheet from being pulled through
the sheet lead block. Anyway, if there was a reason for "not"
putting a Stopper Knot in the sheet end, it must have been edited
out of the footage I have seen and no where in his books does he
mentions a reason (that I can recall).

How about it, can anyone persuade me not to put a Stopper Knot in my
sheets??

I can make a reasonable argument against that _particular_ knot. I would
argue that the _true_ stopper knot is not the figure eight knot but rather
the double overhand version. The figure eight can indeed harden up and
become difficult if not impossible to loosen. The "stopper knot" (i.e., the
double overhand version) does not suffer this drawback. One most boats I've
encountered, it's one or the other, depending on the skipper. I vote for
the "other."

I would also submit that it is good practice to avoid any type of stopper in
the spinnaker sheets. Aside from these comments, I think what you are
seeing in Street's books are examples of a vain old man holding court.

..--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

Steve wrote:

Don, goes on a rant about someone putting a figure "8" Stopper Knot
in the end of a sheet. Something I have been doing for 40 years of
sailing. To me, it keeps the lazy sheet from being pulled through
the sheet lead block. Anyway, if there was a reason for "not"
putting a Stopper Knot in the sheet end, it must have been edited
out of the footage I have seen and no where in his books does he
mentions a reason (that I can recall).

How about it, can anyone persuade me not to put a Stopper Knot in my
sheets??

I can make a reasonable argument against that _particular_ knot. I would
argue that the _true_ stopper knot is not the figure eight knot but rather
the double overhand version. The figure eight can indeed harden up and
become difficult if not impossible to loosen. The "stopper knot" (i.e., the
double overhand version) does not suffer this drawback. One most boats I've
encountered, it's one or the other, depending on the skipper. I vote for
the "other."

I would also submit that it is good practice to avoid any type of stopper in
the spinnaker sheets. Aside from these comments, I think what you are
seeing in Street's books are examples of a vain old man holding court.

..--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

I don't know what it's called, but I make a stopper knot by making a bend in
the line, wrapping the bitter end around the standing part 3-4 times, then
passing the bitter end through the bend and tighten the whole thing up.
Works well, and can usually be undone fairly easily.

--


Keith
__
AI programmers only think they do it
"Armond Perretta" wrote in message
...
Steve wrote:

Don, goes on a rant about someone putting a figure "8" Stopper Knot
in the end of a sheet. Something I have been doing for 40 years of
sailing. To me, it keeps the lazy sheet from being pulled through
the sheet lead block. Anyway, if there was a reason for "not"
putting a Stopper Knot in the sheet end, it must have been edited
out of the footage I have seen and no where in his books does he
mentions a reason (that I can recall).

How about it, can anyone persuade me not to put a Stopper Knot in my
sheets??

I can make a reasonable argument against that _particular_ knot. I would
argue that the _true_ stopper knot is not the figure eight knot but rather
the double overhand version. The figure eight can indeed harden up and
become difficult if not impossible to loosen. The "stopper knot" (i.e.,
the
double overhand version) does not suffer this drawback. One most boats
I've
encountered, it's one or the other, depending on the skipper. I vote for
the "other."

I would also submit that it is good practice to avoid any type of stopper
in
the spinnaker sheets. Aside from these comments, I think what you are
seeing in Street's books are examples of a vain old man holding court.

.--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

I don't know what it's called, but I make a stopper knot by making a bend in
the line, wrapping the bitter end around the standing part 3-4 times, then
passing the bitter end through the bend and tighten the whole thing up.
Works well, and can usually be undone fairly easily.

--


Keith
__
AI programmers only think they do it
"Armond Perretta" wrote in message
...
Steve wrote:

Don, goes on a rant about someone putting a figure "8" Stopper Knot
in the end of a sheet. Something I have been doing for 40 years of
sailing. To me, it keeps the lazy sheet from being pulled through
the sheet lead block. Anyway, if there was a reason for "not"
putting a Stopper Knot in the sheet end, it must have been edited
out of the footage I have seen and no where in his books does he
mentions a reason (that I can recall).

How about it, can anyone persuade me not to put a Stopper Knot in my
sheets??

I can make a reasonable argument against that _particular_ knot. I would
argue that the _true_ stopper knot is not the figure eight knot but rather
the double overhand version. The figure eight can indeed harden up and
become difficult if not impossible to loosen. The "stopper knot" (i.e.,
the
double overhand version) does not suffer this drawback. One most boats
I've
encountered, it's one or the other, depending on the skipper. I vote for
the "other."

I would also submit that it is good practice to avoid any type of stopper
in
the spinnaker sheets. Aside from these comments, I think what you are
seeing in Street's books are examples of a vain old man holding court.

.--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 23:01:09 -0700, "Steve" wrote:

I've read a few books by Don Street and have a couple sailing videos of his
as well. I respect his knowledge while I consider him a bit excentric. His
boats and sailing gear and methods always seem well on to the "Salty Side"
of the scale. One thing for sure, "Don doesn't have to explain" why he does
the things he does when it comes to onboard routines". At least that's the
impression I get..

I have watched his sailing video of one of his Atlantic crossing on "Isle
Aire" with a crew that seemed to worship him and his ways.

One thing from that video that leaves me with a question that I haven't been
able to resolve.

Don, goes on a rant about someone putting a figure "8" Stopper Knot in the
end of a sheet. Something I have been doing for 40 years of sailing. To me,
it keeps the lazy sheet from being pulled through the sheet lead block.
Anyway, if there was a reason for "not" putting a Stopper Knot in the sheet
end, it must have been edited out of the footage I have seen and no where in
his books does he mentions a reason (that I can recall).

How about it, can anyone persuade me not to put a Stopper Knot in my
sheets??

(You see, I'm getting old and grouchy to.)

Also old and grouchy, I do put stoppers on the jib sheets, but never
on the spinnaker sheets/guys.

It may be necessary in extremis to let the spinnaker fly, but the jib
can be released without losing the end of the sheet.



Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


"Wanting to meet a writer because you like his work is like wanting to meet a duck because you like pate."
Margaret Atwood

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 23:01:09 -0700, "Steve" wrote:

I've read a few books by Don Street and have a couple sailing videos of his
as well. I respect his knowledge while I consider him a bit excentric. His
boats and sailing gear and methods always seem well on to the "Salty Side"
of the scale. One thing for sure, "Don doesn't have to explain" why he does
the things he does when it comes to onboard routines". At least that's the
impression I get..

I have watched his sailing video of one of his Atlantic crossing on "Isle
Aire" with a crew that seemed to worship him and his ways.

One thing from that video that leaves me with a question that I haven't been
able to resolve.

Don, goes on a rant about someone putting a figure "8" Stopper Knot in the
end of a sheet. Something I have been doing for 40 years of sailing. To me,
it keeps the lazy sheet from being pulled through the sheet lead block.
Anyway, if there was a reason for "not" putting a Stopper Knot in the sheet
end, it must have been edited out of the footage I have seen and no where in
his books does he mentions a reason (that I can recall).

How about it, can anyone persuade me not to put a Stopper Knot in my
sheets??

(You see, I'm getting old and grouchy to.)

Also old and grouchy, I do put stoppers on the jib sheets, but never
on the spinnaker sheets/guys.

It may be necessary in extremis to let the spinnaker fly, but the jib
can be released without losing the end of the sheet.



Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


"Wanting to meet a writer because you like his work is like wanting to meet a duck because you like pate."
Margaret Atwood

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

Yup, that's called a 'stevedore", always releases.

In article , Keith
wrote:

I don't know what it's called, but I make a stopper knot by making a bend in
the line, wrapping the bitter end around the standing part 3-4 times, then
passing the bitter end through the bend and tighten the whole thing up.
Works well, and can usually be undone fairly easily.

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

Yup, that's called a 'stevedore", always releases.

In article , Keith
wrote:

I don't know what it's called, but I make a stopper knot by making a bend in
the line, wrapping the bitter end around the standing part 3-4 times, then
passing the bitter end through the bend and tighten the whole thing up.
Works well, and can usually be undone fairly easily.

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

How about it, can anyone persuade me not to put a Stopper Knot in my
sheets??

If things are going so well that you're going to wind up with a knot in your
sheets, the last thing you would want to do would be to stop her.........(oh,
sorry, not the same thing......)

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

How about it, can anyone persuade me not to put a Stopper Knot in my
sheets??

If things are going so well that you're going to wind up with a knot in your
sheets, the last thing you would want to do would be to stop her.........(oh,
sorry, not the same thing......)

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

Thanks for all the replys. However I will probably continue my practice on
my sheets and halyards (I'm too old to climb the mast or chase a wild genoa
sheet. (since I have never sailed (in 40+ yr) with a spinniker and at 67,
single handing I doubt I ever will).

The way I'm presently set up, I have 2 different genoas and a working jib
and use a roller furlering (as just a furler, seldom use it for roller
reefing). However I use the same sheet on with sheet Bowline in each.. In my
youth, I got the crap beat out of me by a wild working jib with a 3/8"
shackle and two stainless thimbles. It's just as quick to tie two knots as
it is to 'screw' around with a shackle and pin. I avoid any 'hardware' on
the jib/genoa clew. If the clew grommet corrodes, as many do, I replace it
with nylon webbing.

Talk about "a vain old man holding court".

Thanks for the comments and I'm still open to further rhyme or reason.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

Thanks for all the replys. However I will probably continue my practice on
my sheets and halyards (I'm too old to climb the mast or chase a wild genoa
sheet. (since I have never sailed (in 40+ yr) with a spinniker and at 67,
single handing I doubt I ever will).

The way I'm presently set up, I have 2 different genoas and a working jib
and use a roller furlering (as just a furler, seldom use it for roller
reefing). However I use the same sheet on with sheet Bowline in each.. In my
youth, I got the crap beat out of me by a wild working jib with a 3/8"
shackle and two stainless thimbles. It's just as quick to tie two knots as
it is to 'screw' around with a shackle and pin. I avoid any 'hardware' on
the jib/genoa clew. If the clew grommet corrodes, as many do, I replace it
with nylon webbing.

Talk about "a vain old man holding court".

Thanks for the comments and I'm still open to further rhyme or reason.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 07:28:24 -0700, "Steve" wrote:

Thanks for all the replys. However I will probably continue my practice on
my sheets and halyards (I'm too old to climb the mast or chase a wild genoa
sheet. (since I have never sailed (in 40+ yr) with a spinniker and at 67,
single handing I doubt I ever will).

Young whippersnapper. :-) Actually, I am 68. I only fly the chute when
my wife is with me. Single-handing, no. Not yet anyway.

If I get enough confidence in the new autopilot I might try it this
year.

Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


"Wanting to meet a writer because you like his work is like wanting to meet a duck because you like pate."
Margaret Atwood

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 07:28:24 -0700, "Steve" wrote:

Thanks for all the replys. However I will probably continue my practice on
my sheets and halyards (I'm too old to climb the mast or chase a wild genoa
sheet. (since I have never sailed (in 40+ yr) with a spinniker and at 67,
single handing I doubt I ever will).

Young whippersnapper. :-) Actually, I am 68. I only fly the chute when
my wife is with me. Single-handing, no. Not yet anyway.

If I get enough confidence in the new autopilot I might try it this
year.

Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


"Wanting to meet a writer because you like his work is like wanting to meet a duck because you like pate."
Margaret Atwood

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

"Rodney Myrvaagnes" wrote in message

If I get enough confidence in the new autopilot I might try it this
year.


I use the autopilot for all of my sail handling and switch to the Aries
windvane once things settle down.. I'm very conservative about the sail I
fly while single handing and always have this nagging vision of me in the
water in my boats wake as it sails under vane or pilot without regard for
her missing skipper.

I wear a SOS w/harness but seldom clip in while in the cockpit. The tether
gets in the way around a tiller while managing sheets for both Genoa and
Staysail and Main.

I'm still trying to workout the routing of my jack lines since I have so
much going on on the cabin top. They may have to run down the side deck to
avoid tangles with the cabin top clutter.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

"Rodney Myrvaagnes" wrote in message

If I get enough confidence in the new autopilot I might try it this
year.


I use the autopilot for all of my sail handling and switch to the Aries
windvane once things settle down.. I'm very conservative about the sail I
fly while single handing and always have this nagging vision of me in the
water in my boats wake as it sails under vane or pilot without regard for
her missing skipper.

I wear a SOS w/harness but seldom clip in while in the cockpit. The tether
gets in the way around a tiller while managing sheets for both Genoa and
Staysail and Main.

I'm still trying to workout the routing of my jack lines since I have so
much going on on the cabin top. They may have to run down the side deck to
avoid tangles with the cabin top clutter.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

Steve wrote:
... I will probably continue my
practice on my sheets and halyards (I'm too old to climb the mast
or chase a wild genoa sheet ...

You didn't mention halyards earlier. I suspect that if these are _not_
stoppered they will eventually go aloft on just about any yacht.

... I have 2 different genoas and a
working jib and use a roller furlering (as just a furler, seldom
use it for roller reefing). However I use the same sheet on with
sheet Bowline in each ...

I mentioned this earlier, but anyway ... a long while back someone convinced
me to set up dedicated sheets for each headsail. The sheets consist of a
single length of rope (double the anticipated sheet length) with its middle
point passed through the clew cringle in a bight, and with the remainder of
the cordage looped through the bight. This is a lot harder to describe than
to actually do. This rig doesn't hang on the shrouds, and it doesn't kill
you if you get smacked in the head, but it's more expensive, heavier,
requires stowing the sheets also when changing up or down, etc. Anyway ...

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

Steve wrote:
... I will probably continue my
practice on my sheets and halyards (I'm too old to climb the mast
or chase a wild genoa sheet ...

You didn't mention halyards earlier. I suspect that if these are _not_
stoppered they will eventually go aloft on just about any yacht.

... I have 2 different genoas and a
working jib and use a roller furlering (as just a furler, seldom
use it for roller reefing). However I use the same sheet on with
sheet Bowline in each ...

I mentioned this earlier, but anyway ... a long while back someone convinced
me to set up dedicated sheets for each headsail. The sheets consist of a
single length of rope (double the anticipated sheet length) with its middle
point passed through the clew cringle in a bight, and with the remainder of
the cordage looped through the bight. This is a lot harder to describe than
to actually do. This rig doesn't hang on the shrouds, and it doesn't kill
you if you get smacked in the head, but it's more expensive, heavier,
requires stowing the sheets also when changing up or down, etc. Anyway ...

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 07:28:24 -0700, "Steve" wrote:
since I have never sailed (in 40+ yr) with a spinniker and at 67,
single handing I doubt I ever will

========================================

THAT is tragic, on the same order of tragedy as being married 40
years without consummating the relationship. There is nothing else
you can do to a sailboat that will do more to improve downwind
performance and bring the whole boat alive, absolutely nothing.
In under 20 knots of wind a spinnaker is the difference between
sailing, and floundering around.

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 07:28:24 -0700, "Steve" wrote:
since I have never sailed (in 40+ yr) with a spinniker and at 67,
single handing I doubt I ever will

========================================

THAT is tragic, on the same order of tragedy as being married 40
years without consummating the relationship. There is nothing else
you can do to a sailboat that will do more to improve downwind
performance and bring the whole boat alive, absolutely nothing.
In under 20 knots of wind a spinnaker is the difference between
sailing, and floundering around.

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

x-no-archive:yes

"Nigel" wrote:

How about it, can anyone persuade me not to put a Stopper Knot in my
sheets??

(You see, I'm getting old and grouchy to.)


A stopper knot could prevent you from dumping the sheet in an emergency,
probably more important with spinnakers and large genoas than jibs.

When our boat was brought around from Nassau to Coral Harbour
(Bahamas) after Bob had his heart attack, the skipper who brought it
around put knots in the end of the jib sheets and all the other lines
too. They are still there, or at least there are some there now.


grandma Rosalie

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

x-no-archive:yes

"Nigel" wrote:

How about it, can anyone persuade me not to put a Stopper Knot in my
sheets??

(You see, I'm getting old and grouchy to.)


A stopper knot could prevent you from dumping the sheet in an emergency,
probably more important with spinnakers and large genoas than jibs.

When our boat was brought around from Nassau to Coral Harbour
(Bahamas) after Bob had his heart attack, the skipper who brought it
around put knots in the end of the jib sheets and all the other lines
too. They are still there, or at least there are some there now.


grandma Rosalie

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 07:28:24 -0700, "Steve" wrote:


However I use the same sheet on with sheet Bowline in each.

Same here. I reverse the knot depending on which side the sheet will
run, but then I flemish my docklines and halyards, so I guess I'm a
neat freak.

It's just as quick to tie two knots as
it is to 'screw' around with a shackle and pin. I avoid any 'hardware' on
the jib/genoa clew.

Well, I *do* use Gibb shackles on the spinnaker sheets and guy, mainly
because the previous owner did, and those lines are still good. G

If the clew grommet corrodes, as many do, I replace it
with nylon webbing.

I like to fly my smaller jibs (I have hank-on and a large J) on a
pendant to catch a bit more air. I use an oversized line (5/8" or so)
and use bowlines with secured ends to lift the tack about four feet
above the deck. Using a number 3, this improves forward visibility,
catches a bit more air and allows more choices in genoa car angles. If
I fly the genoa staysail, I fly the no. 3 even higher, like six to
eight feet depending on wind and my anticipation of tacking.

I also use jib downhauls, which is getting pretty rare in these days
of furling, but I've found them handy when singlehanding and seeing
perhaps dodgy gusty weather of the type that precede summer storms
here on the Great Lakes.

The idea of adding a reef point to a genoa is becoming rare, too, but
if you like hank-on, it's a good idea to consider.

R.

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 07:28:24 -0700, "Steve" wrote:


However I use the same sheet on with sheet Bowline in each.

Same here. I reverse the knot depending on which side the sheet will
run, but then I flemish my docklines and halyards, so I guess I'm a
neat freak.

It's just as quick to tie two knots as
it is to 'screw' around with a shackle and pin. I avoid any 'hardware' on
the jib/genoa clew.

Well, I *do* use Gibb shackles on the spinnaker sheets and guy, mainly
because the previous owner did, and those lines are still good. G

If the clew grommet corrodes, as many do, I replace it
with nylon webbing.

I like to fly my smaller jibs (I have hank-on and a large J) on a
pendant to catch a bit more air. I use an oversized line (5/8" or so)
and use bowlines with secured ends to lift the tack about four feet
above the deck. Using a number 3, this improves forward visibility,
catches a bit more air and allows more choices in genoa car angles. If
I fly the genoa staysail, I fly the no. 3 even higher, like six to
eight feet depending on wind and my anticipation of tacking.

I also use jib downhauls, which is getting pretty rare in these days
of furling, but I've found them handy when singlehanding and seeing
perhaps dodgy gusty weather of the type that precede summer storms
here on the Great Lakes.

The idea of adding a reef point to a genoa is becoming rare, too, but
if you like hank-on, it's a good idea to consider.

R.

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 13:00:18 -0400, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:


If I get enough confidence in the new autopilot I might try it this
year.

Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a

Good on you, Rodney. With a J-boat, how could you resist?

I wish they made a cruiser...G

R.

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 13:00:18 -0400, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:


If I get enough confidence in the new autopilot I might try it this
year.

Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a

Good on you, Rodney. With a J-boat, how could you resist?

I wish they made a cruiser...G

R.

Spinnaker, was What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 00:55:28 -0400, rhys wrote:

On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 13:00:18 -0400, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:


If I get enough confidence in the new autopilot I might try it this
year.

Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a

Good on you, Rodney. With a J-boat, how could you resist?

I wish they made a cruiser...G


I can resist until I have it all worked out in my mind. All spinnaker
flying has been double handed up to now, with my wife at the helm
while I get it up or down.

Last year we sprang for a geriatric aid, an ATN sock. Before that our
takedown (leeward) was fine as long as we were on the same jibe as we
had hoisted on.

But an odd number of jibes would leave us with the halyard and sheet
on opposite sides of the boat, where I couldn't reach them
simultaneously.

Our pole has both ends the same, so jibes are done dinghy style, and
only in light air. I don't see any way to do a dip pole without a
third person.





Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

Entering your freshman dorm for the first time, and seeing
an axe head come through the door on your right.

Spinnaker, was What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 00:55:28 -0400, rhys wrote:

On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 13:00:18 -0400, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:


If I get enough confidence in the new autopilot I might try it this
year.

Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a

Good on you, Rodney. With a J-boat, how could you resist?

I wish they made a cruiser...G


I can resist until I have it all worked out in my mind. All spinnaker
flying has been double handed up to now, with my wife at the helm
while I get it up or down.

Last year we sprang for a geriatric aid, an ATN sock. Before that our
takedown (leeward) was fine as long as we were on the same jibe as we
had hoisted on.

But an odd number of jibes would leave us with the halyard and sheet
on opposite sides of the boat, where I couldn't reach them
simultaneously.

Our pole has both ends the same, so jibes are done dinghy style, and
only in light air. I don't see any way to do a dip pole without a
third person.





Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

Entering your freshman dorm for the first time, and seeing
an axe head come through the door on your right.

Spinnaker, was What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 09:47:35 -0400, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:
Our pole has both ends the same, so jibes are done dinghy style, and
only in light air. I don't see any way to do a dip pole without a
third person.

===============================

It can be done with an autopilot and a little practice, at least in
light to moderate wind and seas.

The autopilot steers the boat on a dead run.

Boom is sheeted amidship, spinnaker pole, sheet and guy are squared.

Foredeck person goes forward to trip the pole off.

Cockpit person dips the topping lift.

Foredeck person brings pole through fore triangle and reclips to lazy
guy.

Cockpit person raises topping lift, foredeck returns to cockpit.

Mainsail is jibed over.

Sheets and guys retrimmed to new course.

Autopilot steers, crew returns to Margaritaville.

The advantage of sheeting the boom amidship during the jibe is that it
helps to keep the spinnaker full, and it is one less thing for the
cockpit person to be concerned with. This is risky in heavier air
however because the wind can catch the main and cause a broach.

Spinnaker, was What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 09:47:35 -0400, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:
Our pole has both ends the same, so jibes are done dinghy style, and
only in light air. I don't see any way to do a dip pole without a
third person.

===============================

It can be done with an autopilot and a little practice, at least in
light to moderate wind and seas.

The autopilot steers the boat on a dead run.

Boom is sheeted amidship, spinnaker pole, sheet and guy are squared.

Foredeck person goes forward to trip the pole off.

Cockpit person dips the topping lift.

Foredeck person brings pole through fore triangle and reclips to lazy
guy.

Cockpit person raises topping lift, foredeck returns to cockpit.

Mainsail is jibed over.

Sheets and guys retrimmed to new course.

Autopilot steers, crew returns to Margaritaville.

The advantage of sheeting the boom amidship during the jibe is that it
helps to keep the spinnaker full, and it is one less thing for the
cockpit person to be concerned with. This is risky in heavier air
however because the wind can catch the main and cause a broach.

Spinnaker, was What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 09:47:35 -0400, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:

I can resist until I have it all worked out in my mind. All spinnaker
flying has been double handed up to now, with my wife at the helm
while I get it up or down.

Agreed. I have a 33 1/2 footer, and it's no joke to wrestle that large
expanse of fabric.

Last year we sprang for a geriatric aid, an ATN sock. Before that our
takedown (leeward) was fine as long as we were on the same jibe as we
had hoisted on.

Gee, and here I thought an ATN sock was great for guys in their 40s
G

But an odd number of jibes would leave us with the halyard and sheet
on opposite sides of the boat, where I couldn't reach them
simultaneously.

Our pole has both ends the same, so jibes are done dinghy style, and
only in light air. I don't see any way to do a dip pole without a
third person.

I've seen that operation suffer with four crew running it on a C&C 41,
so three on your boat would seem to be a minimum. If conditions are
perfect, one can manage it, but conditions are rarely perfect, and to
be short-handed is the sailmaker's joy at best, and potentially a
dangerous broach situation at worst. Been there, done that, and helped
pull the foredecker back on board with a wind five knots faster than
we should have had a bloody chute up. My fingerprints are still on the
barrel of the winch, I think G.

You sound like a great candidate for a cruising spinnaker, poleless
variety. I just got one, and I'll post my comments after I launch.

R.

Spinnaker, was What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 09:47:35 -0400, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:

I can resist until I have it all worked out in my mind. All spinnaker
flying has been double handed up to now, with my wife at the helm
while I get it up or down.

Agreed. I have a 33 1/2 footer, and it's no joke to wrestle that large
expanse of fabric.

Last year we sprang for a geriatric aid, an ATN sock. Before that our
takedown (leeward) was fine as long as we were on the same jibe as we
had hoisted on.

Gee, and here I thought an ATN sock was great for guys in their 40s
G

But an odd number of jibes would leave us with the halyard and sheet
on opposite sides of the boat, where I couldn't reach them
simultaneously.

Our pole has both ends the same, so jibes are done dinghy style, and
only in light air. I don't see any way to do a dip pole without a
third person.

I've seen that operation suffer with four crew running it on a C&C 41,
so three on your boat would seem to be a minimum. If conditions are
perfect, one can manage it, but conditions are rarely perfect, and to
be short-handed is the sailmaker's joy at best, and potentially a
dangerous broach situation at worst. Been there, done that, and helped
pull the foredecker back on board with a wind five knots faster than
we should have had a bloody chute up. My fingerprints are still on the
barrel of the winch, I think G.

You sound like a great candidate for a cruising spinnaker, poleless
variety. I just got one, and I'll post my comments after I launch.

R.

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

"rhys" wrote in message
...
it is to 'screw' around with a shackle and pin. I avoid any 'hardware' on
the jib/genoa clew.

Well, I *do* use Gibb shackles on the spinnaker sheets and guy, mainly
because the previous owner did, and those lines are still good. G


One other reason I prefer not to have heavy hardware on my genoa sheets is
that a knot to the clew seems not to hang up while tacking with a staysail
inter stay. Especially in lite air.

The idea of adding a reef point to a genoa is becoming rare, too, but
if you like hank-on, it's a good idea to consider.


My staysail has a single row of reef points. I'm considering some additional
re-enforcements and use this as my 'poormans' storm staysail. It would be
about the right size.

I also use a downhaul on my staysail but it is called a Modified Gerr
Downhaul. In addition to hauling down the luff, it also gathers the clew up
to the gathered luff. Not exactly elegant but the sail is secured on deck,
can't flog or fall overboard and I never have to leave the cockpit to do it
since the downhaul and the halyard are lead to the cock pit.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

"rhys" wrote in message
...
it is to 'screw' around with a shackle and pin. I avoid any 'hardware' on
the jib/genoa clew.

Well, I *do* use Gibb shackles on the spinnaker sheets and guy, mainly
because the previous owner did, and those lines are still good. G


One other reason I prefer not to have heavy hardware on my genoa sheets is
that a knot to the clew seems not to hang up while tacking with a staysail
inter stay. Especially in lite air.

The idea of adding a reef point to a genoa is becoming rare, too, but
if you like hank-on, it's a good idea to consider.


My staysail has a single row of reef points. I'm considering some additional
re-enforcements and use this as my 'poormans' storm staysail. It would be
about the right size.

I also use a downhaul on my staysail but it is called a Modified Gerr
Downhaul. In addition to hauling down the luff, it also gathers the clew up
to the gathered luff. Not exactly elegant but the sail is secured on deck,
can't flog or fall overboard and I never have to leave the cockpit to do it
since the downhaul and the halyard are lead to the cock pit.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

Spinnaker, was What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:37:39 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 09:47:35 -0400, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:
Our pole has both ends the same, so jibes are done dinghy style, and
only in light air. I don't see any way to do a dip pole without a
third person.

===============================

It can be done with an autopilot and a little practice, at least in
light to moderate wind and seas.

The autopilot steers the boat on a dead run.

Boom is sheeted amidship, spinnaker pole, sheet and guy are squared.

Foredeck person goes forward to trip the pole off.

Cockpit person dips the topping lift.

Foredeck person brings pole through fore triangle and reclips to lazy
guy.

Cockpit person raises topping lift, foredeck returns to cockpit.

Mainsail is jibed over.

Sheets and guys retrimmed to new course.

Autopilot steers, crew returns to Margaritaville.

The advantage of sheeting the boom amidship during the jibe is that it
helps to keep the spinnaker full, and it is one less thing for the
cockpit person to be concerned with. This is risky in heavier air
however because the wind can catch the main and cause a broach.


Interesting. If the new autopilot seems capable of it, I will try that
as well. ALthough in light to moderate wind and seas we have no
trouble doing end-for-end.

In stronger winds we would use the sock.




Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

Entering your freshman dorm for the first time, and seeing
an axe head come through the door on your right.