Spinnaker, was What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:37:39 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 09:47:35 -0400, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:
Our pole has both ends the same, so jibes are done dinghy style, and
only in light air. I don't see any way to do a dip pole without a
third person.

===============================

It can be done with an autopilot and a little practice, at least in
light to moderate wind and seas.

The autopilot steers the boat on a dead run.

Boom is sheeted amidship, spinnaker pole, sheet and guy are squared.

Foredeck person goes forward to trip the pole off.

Cockpit person dips the topping lift.

Foredeck person brings pole through fore triangle and reclips to lazy
guy.

Cockpit person raises topping lift, foredeck returns to cockpit.

Mainsail is jibed over.

Sheets and guys retrimmed to new course.

Autopilot steers, crew returns to Margaritaville.

The advantage of sheeting the boom amidship during the jibe is that it
helps to keep the spinnaker full, and it is one less thing for the
cockpit person to be concerned with. This is risky in heavier air
however because the wind can catch the main and cause a broach.


Interesting. If the new autopilot seems capable of it, I will try that
as well. ALthough in light to moderate wind and seas we have no
trouble doing end-for-end.

In stronger winds we would use the sock.




Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

Entering your freshman dorm for the first time, and seeing
an axe head come through the door on your right.

Spinnaker, was What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:50:23 -0400, rhys wrote:

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 09:47:35 -0400, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:

I can resist until I have it all worked out in my mind. All spinnaker
flying has been double handed up to now, with my wife at the helm
while I get it up or down.

Agreed. I have a 33 1/2 footer, and it's no joke to wrestle that large
expanse of fabric.

Last year we sprang for a geriatric aid, an ATN sock. Before that our
takedown (leeward) was fine as long as we were on the same jibe as we
had hoisted on.

Gee, and here I thought an ATN sock was great for guys in their 40s
G

But an odd number of jibes would leave us with the halyard and sheet
on opposite sides of the boat, where I couldn't reach them
simultaneously.

Our pole has both ends the same, so jibes are done dinghy style, and
only in light air. I don't see any way to do a dip pole without a
third person.

I've seen that operation suffer with four crew running it on a C&C 41,
so three on your boat would seem to be a minimum. If conditions are
perfect, one can manage it, but conditions are rarely perfect, and to
be short-handed is the sailmaker's joy at best, and potentially a
dangerous broach situation at worst. Been there, done that, and helped
pull the foredecker back on board with a wind five knots faster than
we should have had a bloody chute up. My fingerprints are still on the
barrel of the winch, I think G.

You sound like a great candidate for a cruising spinnaker, poleless
variety. I just got one, and I'll post my comments after I launch.

I don't know. I like being able to pull the pole back when attempting
to go way low. Even then, the J36 doesn't want to go really downwind.

We have had a couple of humdingers on a chartered J35, a masthead boat
with a bigger chute than the fractional 36. I believe you about the
fingerprints on the winch. :-)




Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

Entering your freshman dorm for the first time, and seeing
an axe head come through the door on your right.

Spinnaker, was What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:50:23 -0400, rhys wrote:

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 09:47:35 -0400, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:

I can resist until I have it all worked out in my mind. All spinnaker
flying has been double handed up to now, with my wife at the helm
while I get it up or down.

Agreed. I have a 33 1/2 footer, and it's no joke to wrestle that large
expanse of fabric.

Last year we sprang for a geriatric aid, an ATN sock. Before that our
takedown (leeward) was fine as long as we were on the same jibe as we
had hoisted on.

Gee, and here I thought an ATN sock was great for guys in their 40s
G

But an odd number of jibes would leave us with the halyard and sheet
on opposite sides of the boat, where I couldn't reach them
simultaneously.

Our pole has both ends the same, so jibes are done dinghy style, and
only in light air. I don't see any way to do a dip pole without a
third person.

I've seen that operation suffer with four crew running it on a C&C 41,
so three on your boat would seem to be a minimum. If conditions are
perfect, one can manage it, but conditions are rarely perfect, and to
be short-handed is the sailmaker's joy at best, and potentially a
dangerous broach situation at worst. Been there, done that, and helped
pull the foredecker back on board with a wind five knots faster than
we should have had a bloody chute up. My fingerprints are still on the
barrel of the winch, I think G.

You sound like a great candidate for a cruising spinnaker, poleless
variety. I just got one, and I'll post my comments after I launch.

I don't know. I like being able to pull the pole back when attempting
to go way low. Even then, the J36 doesn't want to go really downwind.

We have had a couple of humdingers on a chartered J35, a masthead boat
with a bigger chute than the fractional 36. I believe you about the
fingerprints on the winch. :-)




Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

Entering your freshman dorm for the first time, and seeing
an axe head come through the door on your right.

Spinnaker, was What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

You can use the sock to 'partially furl' the spinnaker when gybing.
Just pull the sock down about ~30%. The spinn will keep flying but
easier to unload the pole,etc. Depending on the fullness cut of the
spinn, pulling down 30% with the sock, will sometimes let the spinn fly
free with some 'stability', at least enough to do an end-for-end
(dinghy style) pole gybe.

In article , Rodney
Myrvaagnes wrote:

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:37:39 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 09:47:35 -0400, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:
Our pole has both ends the same, so jibes are done dinghy style, and
only in light air. I don't see any way to do a dip pole without a
third person.

===============================

It can be done with an autopilot and a little practice, at least in
light to moderate wind and seas.

The autopilot steers the boat on a dead run.

Boom is sheeted amidship, spinnaker pole, sheet and guy are squared.

Foredeck person goes forward to trip the pole off.

Cockpit person dips the topping lift.

Foredeck person brings pole through fore triangle and reclips to lazy
guy.

Cockpit person raises topping lift, foredeck returns to cockpit.

Mainsail is jibed over.

Sheets and guys retrimmed to new course.

Autopilot steers, crew returns to Margaritaville.

The advantage of sheeting the boom amidship during the jibe is that it
helps to keep the spinnaker full, and it is one less thing for the
cockpit person to be concerned with. This is risky in heavier air
however because the wind can catch the main and cause a broach.


Interesting. If the new autopilot seems capable of it, I will try that
as well. ALthough in light to moderate wind and seas we have no
trouble doing end-for-end.

In stronger winds we would use the sock.




Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

Entering your freshman dorm for the first time, and seeing
an axe head come through the door on your right.

Spinnaker, was What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

You can use the sock to 'partially furl' the spinnaker when gybing.
Just pull the sock down about ~30%. The spinn will keep flying but
easier to unload the pole,etc. Depending on the fullness cut of the
spinn, pulling down 30% with the sock, will sometimes let the spinn fly
free with some 'stability', at least enough to do an end-for-end
(dinghy style) pole gybe.

In article , Rodney
Myrvaagnes wrote:

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:37:39 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 09:47:35 -0400, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:
Our pole has both ends the same, so jibes are done dinghy style, and
only in light air. I don't see any way to do a dip pole without a
third person.

===============================

It can be done with an autopilot and a little practice, at least in
light to moderate wind and seas.

The autopilot steers the boat on a dead run.

Boom is sheeted amidship, spinnaker pole, sheet and guy are squared.

Foredeck person goes forward to trip the pole off.

Cockpit person dips the topping lift.

Foredeck person brings pole through fore triangle and reclips to lazy
guy.

Cockpit person raises topping lift, foredeck returns to cockpit.

Mainsail is jibed over.

Sheets and guys retrimmed to new course.

Autopilot steers, crew returns to Margaritaville.

The advantage of sheeting the boom amidship during the jibe is that it
helps to keep the spinnaker full, and it is one less thing for the
cockpit person to be concerned with. This is risky in heavier air
however because the wind can catch the main and cause a broach.


Interesting. If the new autopilot seems capable of it, I will try that
as well. ALthough in light to moderate wind and seas we have no
trouble doing end-for-end.

In stronger winds we would use the sock.




Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

Entering your freshman dorm for the first time, and seeing
an axe head come through the door on your right.

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

One other reason I prefer not to have heavy hardware on my genoa sheets
is
that a knot to the clew seems not to hang up while tacking with a staysail
inter stay. Especially in lite air.
**** Try using a 'buntline' instead of a bowline.... a square rig
sailor would never tie a bowline in a clew.

My staysail has a single row of reef points. I'm considering some additional
re-enforcements and use this as my 'poormans' storm staysail. It would be
about the right size.

I also use a downhaul on my staysail but it is called a Modified Gerr
Downhaul. In addition to hauling down the luff, it also gathers the clew up
to the gathered luff.
****Could you explain a little bit more on the Modif. Gerr Downhaul.

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

One other reason I prefer not to have heavy hardware on my genoa sheets
is
that a knot to the clew seems not to hang up while tacking with a staysail
inter stay. Especially in lite air.
**** Try using a 'buntline' instead of a bowline.... a square rig
sailor would never tie a bowline in a clew.

My staysail has a single row of reef points. I'm considering some additional
re-enforcements and use this as my 'poormans' storm staysail. It would be
about the right size.

I also use a downhaul on my staysail but it is called a Modified Gerr
Downhaul. In addition to hauling down the luff, it also gathers the clew up
to the gathered luff.
****Could you explain a little bit more on the Modif. Gerr Downhaul.

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

****Could you explain a little bit more on the Modif. Gerr Downhaul.


I think it is explained in one of my singlehanded sailing books.

Since I don't know what a 'unModified' Gerr Downhaul is, I will attempt to
discribe what my book illustrates. (the book is on the boat, otherwise I
would provide a illustration).

The downhaul line runs up the luff, either through the hanks or through
rings attached to the hank. (to play with the system, just run it up inside
the hank, parrallel to the stay. Then about half way down the luff the
downhaul line is led to the clew on one side, throught the clew cringle and
back to the next lower hank, then on down to the tack where it is reaved
through a fairlead block and back to the cockpit. On my boat, I run it along
the stantion bases just like the furler line in the other side...

Like I said, it ain't neat but it will get the staysail or hanked on jib
down to the deck and under control.. After things quiet down I might go
forward and put a couple gaskets on it and secure it to the life lines to
prevent chaff on the non skid deck.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

****Could you explain a little bit more on the Modif. Gerr Downhaul.


I think it is explained in one of my singlehanded sailing books.

Since I don't know what a 'unModified' Gerr Downhaul is, I will attempt to
discribe what my book illustrates. (the book is on the boat, otherwise I
would provide a illustration).

The downhaul line runs up the luff, either through the hanks or through
rings attached to the hank. (to play with the system, just run it up inside
the hank, parrallel to the stay. Then about half way down the luff the
downhaul line is led to the clew on one side, throught the clew cringle and
back to the next lower hank, then on down to the tack where it is reaved
through a fairlead block and back to the cockpit. On my boat, I run it along
the stantion bases just like the furler line in the other side...

Like I said, it ain't neat but it will get the staysail or hanked on jib
down to the deck and under control.. After things quiet down I might go
forward and put a couple gaskets on it and secure it to the life lines to
prevent chaff on the non skid deck.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:23:16 -0700, "Steve" wrote:

My staysail has a single row of reef points. I'm considering some additional
re-enforcements and use this as my 'poormans' storm staysail. It would be
about the right size.

I figure if you are down to a storm staysail, it's getting pretty
wild. I believe that was the sail of choice in the Sydney Hobart
"weather bomb" race a few years ago. Me, I have a storm jib that's the
Dacron equivalent of elephant hide. Haven't had to fly it yet, but I
suspect it would make a fine riding sail at anchor pulled snug off the
backstay.

I also use a downhaul on my staysail but it is called a Modified Gerr
Downhaul. In addition to hauling down the luff, it also gathers the clew up
to the gathered luff. Not exactly elegant but the sail is secured on deck,
can't flog or fall overboard and I never have to leave the cockpit to do it
since the downhaul and the halyard are lead to the cock pit.

I will look that one up. Sometimes you want to get a big foresail down
in a hurry (like when it's shredding, as in what happened to me
rounding a headland and the wind jumped from seven to 22 knots,
munching my light No. 1). Windage and mess isn't as important as
getting most of it below the pulpit, and this idea, if I'm visualizing
it properly, will do that job quick 'n' dirty.

R.

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:23:16 -0700, "Steve" wrote:

My staysail has a single row of reef points. I'm considering some additional
re-enforcements and use this as my 'poormans' storm staysail. It would be
about the right size.

I figure if you are down to a storm staysail, it's getting pretty
wild. I believe that was the sail of choice in the Sydney Hobart
"weather bomb" race a few years ago. Me, I have a storm jib that's the
Dacron equivalent of elephant hide. Haven't had to fly it yet, but I
suspect it would make a fine riding sail at anchor pulled snug off the
backstay.

I also use a downhaul on my staysail but it is called a Modified Gerr
Downhaul. In addition to hauling down the luff, it also gathers the clew up
to the gathered luff. Not exactly elegant but the sail is secured on deck,
can't flog or fall overboard and I never have to leave the cockpit to do it
since the downhaul and the halyard are lead to the cock pit.

I will look that one up. Sometimes you want to get a big foresail down
in a hurry (like when it's shredding, as in what happened to me
rounding a headland and the wind jumped from seven to 22 knots,
munching my light No. 1). Windage and mess isn't as important as
getting most of it below the pulpit, and this idea, if I'm visualizing
it properly, will do that job quick 'n' dirty.

R.

Spinnaker, was What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 14:21:14 -0400, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:

We have had a couple of humdingers on a chartered J35, a masthead boat
with a bigger chute than the fractional 36. I believe you about the
fingerprints on the winch. :-)

I have participated in three broaches at speed, one with two seconds
warning, one that took everyone by surprise, got a fair bit of water
in the boat and pulped the chute, and one "practice" one that the
skipper wisely arranged in about 15 knots of wind and pretty flat seas
so that the 2/3rds of his club crew who hadn't "wiped out" could
experience it for real and stop dreading it.

Wise skipper. He warned everyone to let fly the sheets on his command
and then broached the boat without bending a pin. It was like being in
a hot rod doing a doughnut in a parking lot.

The other two were considerably less pleasant. People got wet, hurt
and frightened, although a couple found it "cool". I learned a
spinnaker makes an effective sea anchor, just before it blows up and
that just because it's a ponderous boat doesn't mean things can't
happen mighty fast...

R.

Spinnaker, was What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 14:21:14 -0400, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:

We have had a couple of humdingers on a chartered J35, a masthead boat
with a bigger chute than the fractional 36. I believe you about the
fingerprints on the winch. :-)

I have participated in three broaches at speed, one with two seconds
warning, one that took everyone by surprise, got a fair bit of water
in the boat and pulped the chute, and one "practice" one that the
skipper wisely arranged in about 15 knots of wind and pretty flat seas
so that the 2/3rds of his club crew who hadn't "wiped out" could
experience it for real and stop dreading it.

Wise skipper. He warned everyone to let fly the sheets on his command
and then broached the boat without bending a pin. It was like being in
a hot rod doing a doughnut in a parking lot.

The other two were considerably less pleasant. People got wet, hurt
and frightened, although a couple found it "cool". I learned a
spinnaker makes an effective sea anchor, just before it blows up and
that just because it's a ponderous boat doesn't mean things can't
happen mighty fast...

R.

Spinnaker, was What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 20:26:27 GMT, Rich Hampel
wrote:

You can use the sock to 'partially furl' the spinnaker when gybing.
Just pull the sock down about ~30%. The spinn will keep flying but
easier to unload the pole,etc. Depending on the fullness cut of the
spinn, pulling down 30% with the sock, will sometimes let the spinn fly
free with some 'stability', at least enough to do an end-for-end
(dinghy style) pole gybe.


That is what we do since we got the sock. Just pull it down until we
feel comfortable. It doesn't make much difference in time if we pull
it part or all the way down.


Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the
simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.
- Richard Dawkins, "Viruses of the Mind"

Spinnaker, was What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 20:26:27 GMT, Rich Hampel
wrote:

You can use the sock to 'partially furl' the spinnaker when gybing.
Just pull the sock down about ~30%. The spinn will keep flying but
easier to unload the pole,etc. Depending on the fullness cut of the
spinn, pulling down 30% with the sock, will sometimes let the spinn fly
free with some 'stability', at least enough to do an end-for-end
(dinghy style) pole gybe.


That is what we do since we got the sock. Just pull it down until we
feel comfortable. It doesn't make much difference in time if we pull
it part or all the way down.


Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the
simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.
- Richard Dawkins, "Viruses of the Mind"

Spinnaker, was What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 19:40:45 -0400, rhys wrote:

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 14:21:14 -0400, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:

We have had a couple of humdingers on a chartered J35, a masthead boat
with a bigger chute than the fractional 36. I believe you about the
fingerprints on the winch. :-)

I have participated in three broaches at speed, one with two seconds
warning, one that took everyone by surprise, got a fair bit of water
in the boat and pulped the chute, and one "practice" one that the
skipper wisely arranged in about 15 knots of wind and pretty flat seas
so that the 2/3rds of his club crew who hadn't "wiped out" could
experience it for real and stop dreading it.

Wise skipper. He warned everyone to let fly the sheets on his command
and then broached the boat without bending a pin. It was like being in
a hot rod doing a doughnut in a parking lot.

The other two were considerably less pleasant. People got wet, hurt
and frightened, although a couple found it "cool". I learned a
spinnaker makes an effective sea anchor, just before it blows up and
that just because it's a ponderous boat doesn't mean things can't
happen mighty fast...

Maybe I should tell my story. It is enough different to be (perhaps)
instructive. Of course, nobody on this newsgroup would ever goof up as
I did. . . .

We left Boothbay one September morning going east, in a J35 we
chartered many times in the 1980s. Just north of Monhegan we set the
chute in the still-light SW. We had a glorious slide outside of
Woodenball Is, etc, during which time the wind was building. and the
boat felt really good on a broad reach. No wind instruments.

Thinking about a place to anchor for the night, I suggested we jibe
onto port and head into East Penobscot Bay. I said "just square it
straight downwind while I get the pole across" and walked forward.

It was blowing hard enough so I couldn't hear her say she coudn't go
downwind. I unhooked the pole from the mast, and WHAMMO, the
grand-daddy of wraps. The chute had a couple of turns on the aluminum
luff spar, and a big balloon above.

"We can't get this down until we undo the wrap, so lets start the
engine and turn through the wind to unwind it." Bad move. Each turn
through the wind unwound a turn sure enough, but let the bubble get
bigger.

After two turns we needed at least one more, but could no longer go
through the eye of the wind. We then realized we should have been
winding it up, not unwinding, but it was too late. We couldn't unwind
it either.

There is one place around there we can anchor in total darkness with
lots of room. Carvers Cove, at the eastern end of the Fox Is
Thorofare. It was about 10 nm away and it was getting dark.

So, with the bubble thrashing and the boat bucking, we motored north.
Usually the SW dies at night, but this was one of those SW that you
pray for when you are crossing the gulf from Cape Cod. It blew like
stink all night.

We did get the anchor set, and I hoisted genoa sheets on teh other
halyards and wound them around the sail to get it into a series of
smaller bubbles. I didn't get much sleep.

I had to call my father (via marine operator, this was before cell) on
his 85th birthday, but I didn't talk long. I said I had been thinking
of showing him some respect, but had decided to wait till his 90th.

In the morning, we saw another charter couple nearby weighing anchor
on a Bermuda 40 from the Hinckley charter fleet. They were at least 25
years youger than we were. Much too young for a B-40 IMHO.

After considerable work we got the spinnaker down. It had twisted the
luff spar so badly that we couldn't get the jib into it.

THis was a round aluminum luff spar (Hood Gemini) that worked with one
of the removable Harken furlers, which was removed at our request.
There goes the security deposit.

We still had a week of charter left, so we headed for NE Harbor, to
see if the spar could be replaced. We used main alone.

About at Stonington we flew past the red B-40.

No luff spar to be had on MDI. But, the people we had chartered from
had a J36, which we took for the remaining week.

While we were in NEH, the woman on the B40 (which had arrived a few
hours after us) talked to Barbara, whose description of all this might
differ slightly from mine.

After hearing it all, the woman said "but it was all worth it wasn't
it?" I don't think she was going to get the Hinckley again, although
they are really nice inside.

The management of the J35 was not big on maintenance. We took the boat
again the following May and when we took out the chute, it still had
the frayed tabling on one luff that was the only visible result of the
wrap. That nylon is amazingly strong. Our champagne flutes and
telephone dialer were still aboard also.

Hope everyone finds this entertaining, if not instructive.




Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the
simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.
- Richard Dawkins, "Viruses of the Mind"

Spinnaker, was What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 19:40:45 -0400, rhys wrote:

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 14:21:14 -0400, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:

We have had a couple of humdingers on a chartered J35, a masthead boat
with a bigger chute than the fractional 36. I believe you about the
fingerprints on the winch. :-)

I have participated in three broaches at speed, one with two seconds
warning, one that took everyone by surprise, got a fair bit of water
in the boat and pulped the chute, and one "practice" one that the
skipper wisely arranged in about 15 knots of wind and pretty flat seas
so that the 2/3rds of his club crew who hadn't "wiped out" could
experience it for real and stop dreading it.

Wise skipper. He warned everyone to let fly the sheets on his command
and then broached the boat without bending a pin. It was like being in
a hot rod doing a doughnut in a parking lot.

The other two were considerably less pleasant. People got wet, hurt
and frightened, although a couple found it "cool". I learned a
spinnaker makes an effective sea anchor, just before it blows up and
that just because it's a ponderous boat doesn't mean things can't
happen mighty fast...

Maybe I should tell my story. It is enough different to be (perhaps)
instructive. Of course, nobody on this newsgroup would ever goof up as
I did. . . .

We left Boothbay one September morning going east, in a J35 we
chartered many times in the 1980s. Just north of Monhegan we set the
chute in the still-light SW. We had a glorious slide outside of
Woodenball Is, etc, during which time the wind was building. and the
boat felt really good on a broad reach. No wind instruments.

Thinking about a place to anchor for the night, I suggested we jibe
onto port and head into East Penobscot Bay. I said "just square it
straight downwind while I get the pole across" and walked forward.

It was blowing hard enough so I couldn't hear her say she coudn't go
downwind. I unhooked the pole from the mast, and WHAMMO, the
grand-daddy of wraps. The chute had a couple of turns on the aluminum
luff spar, and a big balloon above.

"We can't get this down until we undo the wrap, so lets start the
engine and turn through the wind to unwind it." Bad move. Each turn
through the wind unwound a turn sure enough, but let the bubble get
bigger.

After two turns we needed at least one more, but could no longer go
through the eye of the wind. We then realized we should have been
winding it up, not unwinding, but it was too late. We couldn't unwind
it either.

There is one place around there we can anchor in total darkness with
lots of room. Carvers Cove, at the eastern end of the Fox Is
Thorofare. It was about 10 nm away and it was getting dark.

So, with the bubble thrashing and the boat bucking, we motored north.
Usually the SW dies at night, but this was one of those SW that you
pray for when you are crossing the gulf from Cape Cod. It blew like
stink all night.

We did get the anchor set, and I hoisted genoa sheets on teh other
halyards and wound them around the sail to get it into a series of
smaller bubbles. I didn't get much sleep.

I had to call my father (via marine operator, this was before cell) on
his 85th birthday, but I didn't talk long. I said I had been thinking
of showing him some respect, but had decided to wait till his 90th.

In the morning, we saw another charter couple nearby weighing anchor
on a Bermuda 40 from the Hinckley charter fleet. They were at least 25
years youger than we were. Much too young for a B-40 IMHO.

After considerable work we got the spinnaker down. It had twisted the
luff spar so badly that we couldn't get the jib into it.

THis was a round aluminum luff spar (Hood Gemini) that worked with one
of the removable Harken furlers, which was removed at our request.
There goes the security deposit.

We still had a week of charter left, so we headed for NE Harbor, to
see if the spar could be replaced. We used main alone.

About at Stonington we flew past the red B-40.

No luff spar to be had on MDI. But, the people we had chartered from
had a J36, which we took for the remaining week.

While we were in NEH, the woman on the B40 (which had arrived a few
hours after us) talked to Barbara, whose description of all this might
differ slightly from mine.

After hearing it all, the woman said "but it was all worth it wasn't
it?" I don't think she was going to get the Hinckley again, although
they are really nice inside.

The management of the J35 was not big on maintenance. We took the boat
again the following May and when we took out the chute, it still had
the frayed tabling on one luff that was the only visible result of the
wrap. That nylon is amazingly strong. Our champagne flutes and
telephone dialer were still aboard also.

Hope everyone finds this entertaining, if not instructive.




Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the
simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.
- Richard Dawkins, "Viruses of the Mind"

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 19:30:16 -0400, rhys wrote:

I figure if you are down to a storm staysail, it's getting pretty
wild. I believe that was the sail of choice in the Sydney Hobart
"weather bomb" race a few years ago. Me, I have a storm jib that's the
Dacron equivalent of elephant hide. Haven't had to fly it yet, but I
suspect it would make a fine riding sail at anchor pulled snug off the
backstay.

I
I have used one exactly that way, on a Cal 2-30. It worked like a
charm, and that boat really needed it.


Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the
simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.
- Richard Dawkins, "Viruses of the Mind"

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 19:30:16 -0400, rhys wrote:

I figure if you are down to a storm staysail, it's getting pretty
wild. I believe that was the sail of choice in the Sydney Hobart
"weather bomb" race a few years ago. Me, I have a storm jib that's the
Dacron equivalent of elephant hide. Haven't had to fly it yet, but I
suspect it would make a fine riding sail at anchor pulled snug off the
backstay.

I
I have used one exactly that way, on a Cal 2-30. It worked like a
charm, and that boat really needed it.


Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the
simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.
- Richard Dawkins, "Viruses of the Mind"

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 22:46:14 -0400, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:


I
I have used one exactly that way, on a Cal 2-30. It worked like a
charm, and that boat really needed it.

I am glad to hear it. I have heard of sailmakers (who know what the
hell you are talking about) cutting special riding sails, but it
struck me that the dimensions and beefiness were very close to a sail
I already carry, and like most storm sails, is practically still new.

R.

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 22:46:14 -0400, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:


I
I have used one exactly that way, on a Cal 2-30. It worked like a
charm, and that boat really needed it.

I am glad to hear it. I have heard of sailmakers (who know what the
hell you are talking about) cutting special riding sails, but it
struck me that the dimensions and beefiness were very close to a sail
I already carry, and like most storm sails, is practically still new.

R.

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:07:21 -0400, rhys wrote:

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 22:46:14 -0400, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:


I
I have used one exactly that way, on a Cal 2-30. It worked like a
charm, and that boat really needed it.

I am glad to hear it. I have heard of sailmakers (who know what the
hell you are talking about) cutting special riding sails, but it
struck me that the dimensions and beefiness were very close to a sail
I already carry, and like most storm sails, is practically still new.

I should add that a friend of mine had another Cal 2-30 at the time,
without a storm jib. After I described the effect of the storm jib as
a riding sail he went out and had a riding sail made up specifically
to fit the backstay of the Cal. That also worked very nicely, but it
couldn't be used as a storm jib.

Lying at anchor on one of those Cals without a riding sail wasn't
uncomfortable, as long as you stayed below and didn't look out the
companionway. If you did, you often saw the landscape whizzing by in
one direction or the other.

Our J36 has about the same displacement as the Cal, but about 6-7 feet
more waterline. It has no such problem, and I have never been tempted
to get a riding sail.

..
Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the
simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.
- Richard Dawkins, "Viruses of the Mind"

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:07:21 -0400, rhys wrote:

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 22:46:14 -0400, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:


I
I have used one exactly that way, on a Cal 2-30. It worked like a
charm, and that boat really needed it.

I am glad to hear it. I have heard of sailmakers (who know what the
hell you are talking about) cutting special riding sails, but it
struck me that the dimensions and beefiness were very close to a sail
I already carry, and like most storm sails, is practically still new.

I should add that a friend of mine had another Cal 2-30 at the time,
without a storm jib. After I described the effect of the storm jib as
a riding sail he went out and had a riding sail made up specifically
to fit the backstay of the Cal. That also worked very nicely, but it
couldn't be used as a storm jib.

Lying at anchor on one of those Cals without a riding sail wasn't
uncomfortable, as long as you stayed below and didn't look out the
companionway. If you did, you often saw the landscape whizzing by in
one direction or the other.

Our J36 has about the same displacement as the Cal, but about 6-7 feet
more waterline. It has no such problem, and I have never been tempted
to get a riding sail.

..
Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the
simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.
- Richard Dawkins, "Viruses of the Mind"

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

Doesn't a buntline hitch become tight, (jammed) and hard to untie?

SV


"Rich Hampel" wrote
**** Try using a 'buntline' instead of a bowline.... a square rig
sailor would never tie a bowline in a clew.

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

Doesn't a buntline hitch become tight, (jammed) and hard to untie?

SV


"Rich Hampel" wrote
**** Try using a 'buntline' instead of a bowline.... a square rig
sailor would never tie a bowline in a clew.

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

Yup, thats the purpose, it wont shake loose like a bowline. You can
'capsize' it with a marline spike or 'screwdriver'. The benefit is
that it makes a comparatively small/flatter knot which wont foul and
catch as much as does a bowline.


In article , Scott Vernon
wrote:

Doesn't a buntline hitch become tight, (jammed) and hard to untie?

SV


"Rich Hampel" wrote
**** Try using a 'buntline' instead of a bowline.... a square rig
sailor would never tie a bowline in a clew.

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

Yup, thats the purpose, it wont shake loose like a bowline. You can
'capsize' it with a marline spike or 'screwdriver'. The benefit is
that it makes a comparatively small/flatter knot which wont foul and
catch as much as does a bowline.


In article , Scott Vernon
wrote:

Doesn't a buntline hitch become tight, (jammed) and hard to untie?

SV


"Rich Hampel" wrote
**** Try using a 'buntline' instead of a bowline.... a square rig
sailor would never tie a bowline in a clew.

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

I sailed and worked rescue boats many years at two clubs that used a Buntline
Hitch (we called it a Stunsail Tackbend) for the main halyard. I had to untie
many under unfavorable conditions. Although it definitely gets quite snug, I
never had trouble undoing them.

That said, I use a bowline for my jib sheets. I think that the "mass" of a pair
of buntlines in 5/8 sheets is more than the bowlines - maybe I'll check it out
again this year.




"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Doesn't a buntline hitch become tight, (jammed) and hard to untie?

SV


"Rich Hampel" wrote
**** Try using a 'buntline' instead of a bowline.... a square rig
sailor would never tie a bowline in a clew.

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

I sailed and worked rescue boats many years at two clubs that used a Buntline
Hitch (we called it a Stunsail Tackbend) for the main halyard. I had to untie
many under unfavorable conditions. Although it definitely gets quite snug, I
never had trouble undoing them.

That said, I use a bowline for my jib sheets. I think that the "mass" of a pair
of buntlines in 5/8 sheets is more than the bowlines - maybe I'll check it out
again this year.




"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Doesn't a buntline hitch become tight, (jammed) and hard to untie?

SV


"Rich Hampel" wrote
**** Try using a 'buntline' instead of a bowline.... a square rig
sailor would never tie a bowline in a clew.

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

I'm having a hard time with no stopper knots in spinnaker sheets/guys as you
may wish to let
them fly "presumably" in emergency. I'll counter that with if the sheets
run out on
a spinnaker then you've got a rather large flag flying from the top of your
mast....or
at least 3/4 if your fractional rigged. I can't imagine that being any
better than
stopped sheets run all the way out, and having someone with a bit of
foresight to
release the halyard...at least that way you can recover the spin from the
bottom.

If things it too far beyond that, you can always cut away the lines...

Comments?

--
Cheers,
Jeffrey Nelson
Muir Caileag
C&C 30
"Rodney Myrvaagnes" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 23:01:09 -0700, "Steve" wrote:

I've read a few books by Don Street and have a couple sailing videos of
his
as well. I respect his knowledge while I consider him a bit excentric.
His
boats and sailing gear and methods always seem well on to the "Salty
Side"
of the scale. One thing for sure, "Don doesn't have to explain" why he
does
the things he does when it comes to onboard routines". At least that's
the
impression I get..

I have watched his sailing video of one of his Atlantic crossing on "Isle
Aire" with a crew that seemed to worship him and his ways.

One thing from that video that leaves me with a question that I haven't
been
able to resolve.

Don, goes on a rant about someone putting a figure "8" Stopper Knot in
the
end of a sheet. Something I have been doing for 40 years of sailing. To
me,
it keeps the lazy sheet from being pulled through the sheet lead block.
Anyway, if there was a reason for "not" putting a Stopper Knot in the
sheet
end, it must have been edited out of the footage I have seen and no where
in
his books does he mentions a reason (that I can recall).

How about it, can anyone persuade me not to put a Stopper Knot in my
sheets??

(You see, I'm getting old and grouchy to.)

Also old and grouchy, I do put stoppers on the jib sheets, but never
on the spinnaker sheets/guys.

It may be necessary in extremis to let the spinnaker fly, but the jib
can be released without losing the end of the sheet.



Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC
J36 Gjo/a


"Wanting to meet a writer because you like his work is like wanting to
meet a duck because you like pate."
Margaret Atwood

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

I'm having a hard time with no stopper knots in spinnaker sheets/guys as you
may wish to let
them fly "presumably" in emergency. I'll counter that with if the sheets
run out on
a spinnaker then you've got a rather large flag flying from the top of your
mast....or
at least 3/4 if your fractional rigged. I can't imagine that being any
better than
stopped sheets run all the way out, and having someone with a bit of
foresight to
release the halyard...at least that way you can recover the spin from the
bottom.

If things it too far beyond that, you can always cut away the lines...

Comments?

--
Cheers,
Jeffrey Nelson
Muir Caileag
C&C 30
"Rodney Myrvaagnes" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 23:01:09 -0700, "Steve" wrote:

I've read a few books by Don Street and have a couple sailing videos of
his
as well. I respect his knowledge while I consider him a bit excentric.
His
boats and sailing gear and methods always seem well on to the "Salty
Side"
of the scale. One thing for sure, "Don doesn't have to explain" why he
does
the things he does when it comes to onboard routines". At least that's
the
impression I get..

I have watched his sailing video of one of his Atlantic crossing on "Isle
Aire" with a crew that seemed to worship him and his ways.

One thing from that video that leaves me with a question that I haven't
been
able to resolve.

Don, goes on a rant about someone putting a figure "8" Stopper Knot in
the
end of a sheet. Something I have been doing for 40 years of sailing. To
me,
it keeps the lazy sheet from being pulled through the sheet lead block.
Anyway, if there was a reason for "not" putting a Stopper Knot in the
sheet
end, it must have been edited out of the footage I have seen and no where
in
his books does he mentions a reason (that I can recall).

How about it, can anyone persuade me not to put a Stopper Knot in my
sheets??

(You see, I'm getting old and grouchy to.)

Also old and grouchy, I do put stoppers on the jib sheets, but never
on the spinnaker sheets/guys.

It may be necessary in extremis to let the spinnaker fly, but the jib
can be released without losing the end of the sheet.



Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC
J36 Gjo/a


"Wanting to meet a writer because you like his work is like wanting to
meet a duck because you like pate."
Margaret Atwood

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

Putting stopper knots in spinnaker sheets is very bad practice.
If you ever broach and need to compleatly and instantly let the sheets
fly ..... you wind up on your side or worse and I guarantee that you
will have NO time to cut one of the sheets.
If it gets 'that bad' that the spinnaker is held only by its halyard
(and sheets free) you can always grab one of the free sheet ends and
let the halyard fly..... and save the boat.




In article
ble.rogers.com,
DARat wrote:

I'm having a hard time with no stopper knots in spinnaker sheets/guys as you
may wish to let
them fly "presumably" in emergency. I'll counter that with if the sheets
run out on
a spinnaker then you've got a rather large flag flying from the top of your
mast....or
at least 3/4 if your fractional rigged. I can't imagine that being any
better than
stopped sheets run all the way out, and having someone with a bit of
foresight to
release the halyard...at least that way you can recover the spin from the
bottom.

If things it too far beyond that, you can always cut away the lines...

Comments?

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

Putting stopper knots in spinnaker sheets is very bad practice.
If you ever broach and need to compleatly and instantly let the sheets
fly ..... you wind up on your side or worse and I guarantee that you
will have NO time to cut one of the sheets.
If it gets 'that bad' that the spinnaker is held only by its halyard
(and sheets free) you can always grab one of the free sheet ends and
let the halyard fly..... and save the boat.




In article
ble.rogers.com,
DARat wrote:

I'm having a hard time with no stopper knots in spinnaker sheets/guys as you
may wish to let
them fly "presumably" in emergency. I'll counter that with if the sheets
run out on
a spinnaker then you've got a rather large flag flying from the top of your
mast....or
at least 3/4 if your fractional rigged. I can't imagine that being any
better than
stopped sheets run all the way out, and having someone with a bit of
foresight to
release the halyard...at least that way you can recover the spin from the
bottom.

If things it too far beyond that, you can always cut away the lines...

Comments?

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

Still not buying it...I've broached more than once (with and without
spinnaker up) while pushing a littler harder
than we should while racing, I'll agree not much fun but there's plenty of
time to do a lot of things. I guess
having a crew that you can trust to spill the halyard when things get really
out of hand helps.

People I've seen in trouble are those with the spin flying straight out at
the top of the mast with the lines ahead of
that. They had a hell of a time trying to get their spin down...I guess if
there's no stopper not in the halyard,
the whole thing can run free and you can go find it later...

I'll give you no stopper in the spin halyard. Maybe I'll re-think the
stopper knot...

Cheers,
Jeffrey Nelson
Muir Caileag
C&C 30
"Rich Hampel" wrote in message
...
Putting stopper knots in spinnaker sheets is very bad practice.
If you ever broach and need to compleatly and instantly let the sheets
fly ..... you wind up on your side or worse and I guarantee that you
will have NO time to cut one of the sheets.
If it gets 'that bad' that the spinnaker is held only by its halyard
(and sheets free) you can always grab one of the free sheet ends and
let the halyard fly..... and save the boat.




In article
ble.rogers.com,
DARat wrote:

I'm having a hard time with no stopper knots in spinnaker sheets/guys as
you
may wish to let
them fly "presumably" in emergency. I'll counter that with if the
sheets
run out on
a spinnaker then you've got a rather large flag flying from the top of
your
mast....or
at least 3/4 if your fractional rigged. I can't imagine that being any
better than
stopped sheets run all the way out, and having someone with a bit of
foresight to
release the halyard...at least that way you can recover the spin from
the
bottom.

If things it too far beyond that, you can always cut away the lines...

Comments?

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

Still not buying it...I've broached more than once (with and without
spinnaker up) while pushing a littler harder
than we should while racing, I'll agree not much fun but there's plenty of
time to do a lot of things. I guess
having a crew that you can trust to spill the halyard when things get really
out of hand helps.

People I've seen in trouble are those with the spin flying straight out at
the top of the mast with the lines ahead of
that. They had a hell of a time trying to get their spin down...I guess if
there's no stopper not in the halyard,
the whole thing can run free and you can go find it later...

I'll give you no stopper in the spin halyard. Maybe I'll re-think the
stopper knot...

Cheers,
Jeffrey Nelson
Muir Caileag
C&C 30
"Rich Hampel" wrote in message
...
Putting stopper knots in spinnaker sheets is very bad practice.
If you ever broach and need to compleatly and instantly let the sheets
fly ..... you wind up on your side or worse and I guarantee that you
will have NO time to cut one of the sheets.
If it gets 'that bad' that the spinnaker is held only by its halyard
(and sheets free) you can always grab one of the free sheet ends and
let the halyard fly..... and save the boat.




In article
ble.rogers.com,
DARat wrote:

I'm having a hard time with no stopper knots in spinnaker sheets/guys as
you
may wish to let
them fly "presumably" in emergency. I'll counter that with if the
sheets
run out on
a spinnaker then you've got a rather large flag flying from the top of
your
mast....or
at least 3/4 if your fractional rigged. I can't imagine that being any
better than
stopped sheets run all the way out, and having someone with a bit of
foresight to
release the halyard...at least that way you can recover the spin from
the
bottom.

If things it too far beyond that, you can always cut away the lines...

Comments?

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

I have sort of followed this thread from the begining of the month.
Apart from one entry about stopper knots jamming in natural fiberlines
that get wet. There has been no argument against them with which I agree.

If you are racing, under most conditions you are effectively short
handed (or at least there is something more important to do that manage
a now lazy sheet). The one good way to douse a spinnaker is to start by
letting the halyard run. The only attention it should need then is to
be sure it doesn't foul. This is one place where you want a stopper but
not at the end because it may actually slide on a dacron halyard, so set
it a foot or so up from the end. The sheets should be two boats long,
so even letting it run during a douse you should not get to the stopper.
No stopper means you are willing to let the halyard go up the mast or
the sheet run around (it now has to be handled by the chute retriever
and will end up wet over move of its length as it got pulled clear as
soon as it touched the water) and now will have to be rerigged for the
next leg. I see no advantage here.

If you are cruising, even if you get behind the situation, I can see no
good reason to let a sheet or a halyard run free to clear. If things
need to be dealt that fast, you maybe should be letting halyards run.
If anything runs clear of its leads, you have now lost any opportunity
you may have had to regain control of the situation any time soon.

This is just the result of fifty plus years a waterman and competitive
sailor aboard things betweent Dyer Midgets to a 90ton fishing schooner
(powered vessle time not included in this discussion).

Matt Colie
Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Perpetual Sailor





DARat wrote:
I'm having a hard time with no stopper knots in spinnaker sheets/guys as you
may wish to let them fly "presumably" in emergency. I'll counter that with if the sheets
run out on a spinnaker then you've got a rather large flag flying from the top of your
mast....or at least 3/4 if your fractional rigged. I can't imagine that being any
better than stopped sheets run all the way out, and having someone with a bit of
foresight to release the halyard...at least that way you can recover the spin from the
bottom.

If things it too far beyond that, you can always cut away the lines...

Comments?

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

I have sort of followed this thread from the begining of the month.
Apart from one entry about stopper knots jamming in natural fiberlines
that get wet. There has been no argument against them with which I agree.

If you are racing, under most conditions you are effectively short
handed (or at least there is something more important to do that manage
a now lazy sheet). The one good way to douse a spinnaker is to start by
letting the halyard run. The only attention it should need then is to
be sure it doesn't foul. This is one place where you want a stopper but
not at the end because it may actually slide on a dacron halyard, so set
it a foot or so up from the end. The sheets should be two boats long,
so even letting it run during a douse you should not get to the stopper.
No stopper means you are willing to let the halyard go up the mast or
the sheet run around (it now has to be handled by the chute retriever
and will end up wet over move of its length as it got pulled clear as
soon as it touched the water) and now will have to be rerigged for the
next leg. I see no advantage here.

If you are cruising, even if you get behind the situation, I can see no
good reason to let a sheet or a halyard run free to clear. If things
need to be dealt that fast, you maybe should be letting halyards run.
If anything runs clear of its leads, you have now lost any opportunity
you may have had to regain control of the situation any time soon.

This is just the result of fifty plus years a waterman and competitive
sailor aboard things betweent Dyer Midgets to a 90ton fishing schooner
(powered vessle time not included in this discussion).

Matt Colie
Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Perpetual Sailor





DARat wrote:
I'm having a hard time with no stopper knots in spinnaker sheets/guys as you
may wish to let them fly "presumably" in emergency. I'll counter that with if the sheets
run out on a spinnaker then you've got a rather large flag flying from the top of your
mast....or at least 3/4 if your fractional rigged. I can't imagine that being any
better than stopped sheets run all the way out, and having someone with a bit of
foresight to release the halyard...at least that way you can recover the spin from the
bottom.

If things it too far beyond that, you can always cut away the lines...

Comments?

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

I'll agree with your statements. In my second post, I was considering
allowing the
halyard to run completely out if things just got toasted. But in reading
your post,
I agree that the stopper knot shouldn't be a problem even in the halyard,
since it
has to be long enough to completely depower the spin anyway.

Good post...Thanks!

--
Cheers,
Jeffrey Nelson
Muir Caileag
C&C 30
"Matt Colie" wrote in message
...
I have sort of followed this thread from the begining of the month.
Apart from one entry about stopper knots jamming in natural fiberlines
that get wet. There has been no argument against them with which I agree.

If you are racing, under most conditions you are effectively short
handed (or at least there is something more important to do that manage
a now lazy sheet). The one good way to douse a spinnaker is to start by
letting the halyard run. The only attention it should need then is to
be sure it doesn't foul. This is one place where you want a stopper but
not at the end because it may actually slide on a dacron halyard, so set
it a foot or so up from the end. The sheets should be two boats long,
so even letting it run during a douse you should not get to the stopper.
No stopper means you are willing to let the halyard go up the mast or
the sheet run around (it now has to be handled by the chute retriever
and will end up wet over move of its length as it got pulled clear as
soon as it touched the water) and now will have to be rerigged for the
next leg. I see no advantage here.

If you are cruising, even if you get behind the situation, I can see no
good reason to let a sheet or a halyard run free to clear. If things
need to be dealt that fast, you maybe should be letting halyards run.
If anything runs clear of its leads, you have now lost any opportunity
you may have had to regain control of the situation any time soon.

This is just the result of fifty plus years a waterman and competitive
sailor aboard things betweent Dyer Midgets to a 90ton fishing schooner
(powered vessle time not included in this discussion).

Matt Colie
Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Perpetual Sailor





DARat wrote:
I'm having a hard time with no stopper knots in spinnaker sheets/guys as
you
may wish to let them fly "presumably" in emergency. I'll counter that
with if the sheets
run out on a spinnaker then you've got a rather large flag flying from
the top of your
mast....or at least 3/4 if your fractional rigged. I can't imagine that
being any
better than stopped sheets run all the way out, and having someone with
a bit of
foresight to release the halyard...at least that way you can recover the
spin from the
bottom.

If things it too far beyond that, you can always cut away the lines...

Comments?

What's wrong with a Stopper Knot??
 

I'll agree with your statements. In my second post, I was considering
allowing the
halyard to run completely out if things just got toasted. But in reading
your post,
I agree that the stopper knot shouldn't be a problem even in the halyard,
since it
has to be long enough to completely depower the spin anyway.

Good post...Thanks!

--
Cheers,
Jeffrey Nelson
Muir Caileag
C&C 30
"Matt Colie" wrote in message
...
I have sort of followed this thread from the begining of the month.
Apart from one entry about stopper knots jamming in natural fiberlines
that get wet. There has been no argument against them with which I agree.

If you are racing, under most conditions you are effectively short
handed (or at least there is something more important to do that manage
a now lazy sheet). The one good way to douse a spinnaker is to start by
letting the halyard run. The only attention it should need then is to
be sure it doesn't foul. This is one place where you want a stopper but
not at the end because it may actually slide on a dacron halyard, so set
it a foot or so up from the end. The sheets should be two boats long,
so even letting it run during a douse you should not get to the stopper.
No stopper means you are willing to let the halyard go up the mast or
the sheet run around (it now has to be handled by the chute retriever
and will end up wet over move of its length as it got pulled clear as
soon as it touched the water) and now will have to be rerigged for the
next leg. I see no advantage here.

If you are cruising, even if you get behind the situation, I can see no
good reason to let a sheet or a halyard run free to clear. If things
need to be dealt that fast, you maybe should be letting halyards run.
If anything runs clear of its leads, you have now lost any opportunity
you may have had to regain control of the situation any time soon.

This is just the result of fifty plus years a waterman and competitive
sailor aboard things betweent Dyer Midgets to a 90ton fishing schooner
(powered vessle time not included in this discussion).

Matt Colie
Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Perpetual Sailor





DARat wrote:
I'm having a hard time with no stopper knots in spinnaker sheets/guys as
you
may wish to let them fly "presumably" in emergency. I'll counter that
with if the sheets
run out on a spinnaker then you've got a rather large flag flying from
the top of your
mast....or at least 3/4 if your fractional rigged. I can't imagine that
being any
better than stopped sheets run all the way out, and having someone with
a bit of
foresight to release the halyard...at least that way you can recover the
spin from the
bottom.

If things it too far beyond that, you can always cut away the lines...

Comments?