Hello,

Please forgive me for asking a newbie question. I'm considering getting a
smallish (19'-23'), swing keel, water ballast, sailboat for family
recreation on local lakes. I don't know much about sailing but I've been a
power boat owner for 30 years. Big difference, I know, but bear with me. For
budget reasons I prefer not to have to rent a slip and would like to keep my
boat at home and trailer to the lake on weekends. In all of my years of
boating I have never seen anyone trailer a sailboat to the lake, raise the
mast, and launch. Every sailboat I have ever seen either came from a slip or
at the very least, was sitting on a trailer stored at the marina with the
mast up and presumably launched right there in that manner. I see photos and
ads for 'mast raising' systems but I have to assume that it's too much
trouble to trailer a sailboat on weekends or more people would be doing it.
Obviously it would be more involved than launching say a bass boat, but
really, how much trouble is it? Is the idea totally impractical? Are some
models easier than others to launch?

Although I'm not a lazy guy, far from it actually, I'm still very concerned
that a boat with a poor work-to-fun ratio will sit in the driveway and not
get used that much.

I appreciate any thoughts the group may have on this subject, pro and con.
--
Everett
'04 KTM 300 EXC (Treefinder)
'75 Kawasaki S3 400 (2-stroke triple)
'74 BMW R90/6 (Gentleman's Express)

"Silver K" wrote in message
...

"txmxrider" wrote in message
...
Hello,

Please forgive me for asking a newbie question. I'm considering getting a
smallish (19'-23'), swing keel, water ballast, sailboat for family
recreation on local lakes. I don't know much about sailing but I've been
a
power boat owner for 30 years. Big difference, I know, but bear with me.
For
budget reasons I prefer not to have to rent a slip and would like to keep
my
boat at home and trailer to the lake on weekends. In all of my years of
boating I have never seen anyone trailer a sailboat to the lake, raise
the
mast, and launch. Every sailboat I have ever seen either came from a slip
or
at the very least, was sitting on a trailer stored at the marina with the
mast up and presumably launched right there in that manner. I see photos
and
ads for 'mast raising' systems but I have to assume that it's too much
trouble to trailer a sailboat on weekends or more people would be doing
it.
Obviously it would be more involved than launching say a bass boat, but
really, how much trouble is it? Is the idea totally impractical? Are some
models easier than others to launch?

Although I'm not a lazy guy, far from it actually, I'm still very
concerned
that a boat with a poor work-to-fun ratio will sit in the driveway and
not
get used that much.

I appreciate any thoughts the group may have on this subject, pro and
con.
--
Everett
'04 KTM 300 EXC (Treefinder)
'75 Kawasaki S3 400 (2-stroke triple)
'74 BMW R90/6 (Gentleman's Express)

The only problem with trailering a sailboat is the amount of time it takes
to rig the mast and attach the sails and other gear. I trailered a Hunter
23 for a few years and it would take an hour by the time I was ready to
sail or drive away. I had to raise the mast, tension the stays and
shrouds, attach the boom, run the halyards and sheets, raise the jib on
the furler, run the jib sheets, attach the main, put the anchor on the
roller, attach the dodger, launch the tender, attach the outboard and by
the time this was done, the beer was chilled. I had to do everthing in
reverse when it was time to leave. It ended up being much easier to leave
it on a mooring. One consideration is the length of the tongue on the
trailer. Most boat ramps are not made for boats with keels. I had an
eight foot extension on the tongue that allowed me to back the boat in
further and guides on the trailer that helped to align the boat when
loading it back on the trailer.

Silver K


I agree. It's not difficult, but it puts a damper on one's enthusiasm about
actually going sailing. Even my little Windrider trimaran (one sail) took
about 45 minutes from trailer to water or reverse. On my current Sabre 30
(in a slip), I can get underway in 15 minutes, less if pressed.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"txmxrider" wrote in message
...
Hello,

Please forgive me for asking a newbie question. I'm considering getting a
smallish (19'-23'), swing keel, water ballast, sailboat for family
recreation on local lakes. I don't know much about sailing but I've been a
power boat owner for 30 years. Big difference, I know, but bear with me.
For
budget reasons I prefer not to have to rent a slip and would like to keep
my
boat at home and trailer to the lake on weekends. In all of my years of
boating I have never seen anyone trailer a sailboat to the lake, raise the
mast, and launch. Every sailboat I have ever seen either came from a slip
or
at the very least, was sitting on a trailer stored at the marina with the
mast up and presumably launched right there in that manner. I see photos
and
ads for 'mast raising' systems but I have to assume that it's too much
trouble to trailer a sailboat on weekends or more people would be doing
it.
Obviously it would be more involved than launching say a bass boat, but
really, how much trouble is it? Is the idea totally impractical? Are some
models easier than others to launch?

Although I'm not a lazy guy, far from it actually, I'm still very
concerned
that a boat with a poor work-to-fun ratio will sit in the driveway and not
get used that much.

I appreciate any thoughts the group may have on this subject, pro and con.
--
Everett
'04 KTM 300 EXC (Treefinder)
'75 Kawasaki S3 400 (2-stroke triple)
'74 BMW R90/6 (Gentleman's Express)

The only problem with trailering a sailboat is the amount of time it takes
to rig the mast and attach the sails and other gear. I trailered a Hunter
23 for a few years and it would take an hour by the time I was ready to sail
or drive away. I had to raise the mast, tension the stays and shrouds,
attach the boom, run the halyards and sheets, raise the jib on the furler,
run the jib sheets, attach the main, put the anchor on the roller, attach
the dodger, launch the tender, attach the outboard and by the time this was
done, the beer was chilled. I had to do everthing in reverse when it was
time to leave. It ended up being much easier to leave it on a mooring. One
consideration is the length of the tongue on the trailer. Most boat ramps
are not made for boats with keels. I had an eight foot extension on the
tongue that allowed me to back the boat in further and guides on the trailer
that helped to align the boat when loading it back on the trailer.

Silver K

"txmxrider" wrote in
:

I trailer sailed a Hobie 16 for a couple of years which is about the same
level of difficulty setting up as a small water ballast boat, maybe the
Hobie is a bit easier but not much diff.

With 2 big experienced guys we had it down to 20 minutes up or down -
fairly fast focussed work, no fooling around. If you are alone it will take
an hour at best.

The first time or two up and down will take an hour or so and then it gets
faster once you learn the tricks for your particular boat - get the right
tools and keep them in the right locations, minimize the things that need
to be re-installed every time, use quick connects instead of threaded
fittings, learn how to do an adequate quick adjustment of the rig, learn
the best order in which to work, etc. Keep a few sets of shackle pins and
circlips handy for when they break. Replace pins and circlips before they
break while underway if you know whats good for you.

Make checklists for the up and the down process so nothing gets forgotten.
I was in a club and there were a few instances of rigs toppling while
sailing or things falling off the boat or trailer while driving.

The thing that got to me was that this was always done with mosquitos
eating me alive.

"txmxrider" wrote in message
...
Hello,

Please forgive me for asking a newbie question. I'm considering getting a
smallish (19'-23'), swing keel, water ballast, sailboat for family
recreation on local lakes. I don't know much about sailing but I've been a
power boat owner for 30 years. Big difference, I know, but bear with me.
For
budget reasons I prefer not to have to rent a slip and would like to keep
my
boat at home and trailer to the lake on weekends. In all of my years of
boating I have never seen anyone trailer a sailboat to the lake, raise the
mast, and launch. Every sailboat I have ever seen either came from a slip
or
at the very least, was sitting on a trailer stored at the marina with the
mast up and presumably launched right there in that manner. I see photos
and
ads for 'mast raising' systems but I have to assume that it's too much
trouble to trailer a sailboat on weekends or more people would be doing
it.
Obviously it would be more involved than launching say a bass boat, but
really, how much trouble is it? Is the idea totally impractical? Are some
models easier than others to launch?

Although I'm not a lazy guy, far from it actually, I'm still very
concerned
that a boat with a poor work-to-fun ratio will sit in the driveway and not
get used that much.

I appreciate any thoughts the group may have on this subject, pro and con.
--
Everett
'04 KTM 300 EXC (Treefinder)
'75 Kawasaki S3 400 (2-stroke triple)
'74 BMW R90/6 (Gentleman's Express)


I sold my Sandpiper565 last August because I couldn't get the wife
interested. (read... act as willing crew in raising the mast etc)
It was too bad because a lot of people love to trailer their mini cruiser
from spot to spot for a days (or weekend) cruising.
Last year I towed my sailboat about 2600 miles round trip to attend a
Rendezvous for our Sandpipers.
Bottom line...energetic people can rig a smaller (20 ft or smaller) boat
singlehanded, but it sure does help to have one crewmember there.

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 11:22:09 -0500, "txmxrider"
wrote:
.... I'm considering getting a
smallish (19'-23'), swing keel, water ballast, sailboat for family
recreation on local lakes. ///. I see photos and
ads for 'mast raising' systems but I have to assume that it's too much
trouble to trailer a sailboat on weekends or more people would be doing it.
Obviously it would be more involved than launching say a bass boat, but
really, how much trouble is it?

I fitted a staff to the trailer winch post, with a second winch and a
block somewhat higher than the topsides. The SC22 is a swing keel
boat.
At the ramp, I fit a crutch in the rudder gudgeons, and set the
foot of the mast in a tabernacle hinge and rest the top in the transom
crutch.

I let out the hoisting cable, and connect it to the forestay.
I attach a line to each of the lower stays, and have a crew hold one
side, and an innocent bystander the other. I prefer the bystander to
be a young woman - they invariably do as asked, without strong-arming
the line. The purpose is simply to steady the mast as it winches up,
so that it does not fall to one side or the other. The upper stays and
aft rigging remain attached. When the mast goes vertical one bystander
walks forward and holds the mast forward until the forward stay is
secured.

I can launch a ski boat off a trailer single-handed and dry foot,
paying out a long painter, which I walk round to the jetty.
That takes about 30 times less time and effort than
sailboat rigging, no doubt.

Brian W

"txmxrider" wrote in message
Please forgive me for asking a newbie question. I'm considering getting a
smallish (19'-23'), swing keel, water ballast, sailboat for family
recreation on local lakes.


IMHO that's a great idea!

For
budget reasons I prefer not to have to rent a slip and would like to keep
my
boat at home and trailer to the lake on weekends.


And you've figured the price of fuel for your tow vehicle into this
calculation? Anyway, it's a big advantage to keep the boat at home.

.... In all of my years of
boating I have never seen anyone trailer a sailboat to the lake, raise the
mast, and launch. Every sailboat I have ever seen either came from a slip
or
at the very least, was sitting on a trailer stored at the marina with the
mast up

Yeah, so? That doesn't mean it can't be done, just that the guys in
your neighborhood don't. Maybe they don't know how, or maybe there are
other reasons (more below).



Obviously it would be more involved than launching say a bass boat, but
really, how much trouble is it? Is the idea totally impractical? Are some
models easier than others to launch?


Yes MUCH. Although it's a rule that every single trailerable sailboat
is claimed by the owner to take "about 15 minutes" to rig / unrig,
actual times vary by hours. The skill & attitudes of the owner also
have big impact on the procedure.

FWIW, it's fully possible to have a reasonable sized trailerable
sailboat that can be rigged & launched in less than 15 minutes, by one
reasonably skilled person. I've personally owned two such boats, and
proved this many times... in fact, one potentially hostile witness
timed me, intending to burst my claims... turned out it took me eleven
minutes, from ready for the highway to ready to hoist sail. And i was
holding a cold drink in one hand for much of that interval


Although I'm not a lazy guy, far from it actually, I'm still very
concerned
that a boat with a poor work-to-fun ratio will sit in the driveway and not
get used that much.


Right on the money there. It's true of the vast majority of all boats
in America, not just trailerable sailboats.


"Silver K" wrote:
The only problem with trailering a sailboat is the amount of time it takes
to rig the mast and attach the sails and other gear. I trailered a Hunter
23 for a few years and it would take an hour by the time I was ready to sail
or drive away.

Ah, an honest man! The Hunter 23 is a nice boat but it's not the most
effective design for trailerability. The newer Hunter 23.5 and H240
are better in that respect.

.... I had to raise the mast, tension the stays and shrouds,
attach the boom, run the halyards and sheets, raise the jib on the furler,
run the jib sheets, attach the main, put the anchor on the roller, attach
the dodger, launch the tender, attach the outboard

Did you ever realize that much of this was redundant & unnecessary
labor?


.. I had an eight foot extension on the
tongue that allowed me to back the boat in further and guides on the trailer
that helped to align the boat when loading it back on the trailer.


A shallower boat that sits low on the trailer is a necessity for easy
& quick launching. But all boats are a compromise, the Hunter 23 will
sail rings around many water-ballasted & shallow draft boats that are
more easily trailered.




Brian Whatcott wrote:
I fitted a staff to the trailer winch post, with a second winch and a
block somewhat higher than the topsides.

If you get the post high enough, you don't need babystays. I cut this
process short by choosing a smaller boat with a mast I could lift by
hand.

At the ramp, I fit a crutch in the rudder gudgeons, and set the
foot of the mast in a tabernacle hinge and rest the top in the transom
crutch.


Why not put on a bracket to set the mast crutch in place, and leave
the rudder in place? Eliminating unnecessary steps makes it much
quicker to rig & unrig.



I can launch a ski boat off a trailer single-handed and dry foot,
paying out a long painter, which I walk round to the jetty.
That takes about 30 times less time and effort than
sailboat rigging, no doubt.


That's a big reason why motorboats are so much more popular than
sailboats. But it's possible to simplify... and can be rewarding too.

I know a fellow who used to trailer a small full-keel classic sloop,
with a keel-stepped mast. He had invented a tripod arrangement with a
winch that would raise the mast into place, but of course it took
about half an hour to assemble. He spent about two hours rigging up
every time, and apparently enjoyed the process. His boat was beautiful
and most people walking by would compliment her. So it doesn't have to
be all about hurrying to get on the water.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

On 2008-07-15 12:22:09 -0400, "txmxrider" said:

Please forgive me for asking a newbie question. I'm considering getting a
smallish (19'-23'), swing keel, water ballast, sailboat for family
recreation on local lakes.snip
Obviously it would be more involved than launching say a bass boat, but
really, how much trouble is it? Is the idea totally impractical? Are some
models easier than others to launch?

First, what do you want to do?

If it's only daysails, boats such as the O'Day Daysailor and Island 17,
to name two I've sailed a lot and had a LOT of fun on. There are a
number of mostly-open boats with a tiny overhang in the front for
stores and such in the 13-20' range. If it rains, you get wet, and you
at most can throw a tarp over the boom for overnights. These are pretty
much ideal for small lakes, say up to a couple or 5 miles long. The
boats others mentioned would soon run out of space.

Did I say they're FUN! And manageable by kids. Letting them take their
friends out "alone" can really hook them. I've raced against teenage
crews, learned to race with a 15 year-old who'd won that class's
Nationals the year before.

That sort are not much slower to launch than the bass boat. It takes a
bit longer to put any boat down after a long day in the sun, but most
people don't notice that.

Stepping up:

We had a Macgregor 21 for a decade, trailed it for 8 years. Two adults
and 1 or 2 kids can get by overnight, but it's tight for more than the
adults. (Better: "park" where the kids can pitch a tent on shore.)
Surprisingly capable, and can be towed by a small car. We used a '78
Datsun B210, 1400 cc of roaring squirrels. I'd say that others' timing
assessments are about right after practice. Half an hour after we hit
the parking lot, we were sailing, but a lot of that was the drive,
launch, and

Setting up and putting down each time *does* put a slight damper on
things. We used the boat twice as much and starting doing regular
weekends once we put her on a mooring on the Chesapeake, within reach
of dozens of interesting anchorages and places to go.

Re-reading yours, it sounds like there's one particular lake. If that's
the case, you may well be able to moor the boat cheaply and have the
best of both worlds: Able to do sunset sails if the mood strikes, yet
able to haul it to a vacation somewhere else.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Many thanks to all for your informative replies.

As with everything else it appears that some compromises will have to be
made:
mooring vs trailering
small vs not so small (read non-portapotty equipped vs portapotty equipped
g)

We'll have to give this all some thoughtful consideration. You have a great
newsgroup here, please keep up the good work. I'll report back to the group
to let you know how the decision went.

--
Everett
'04 KTM 300 EXC (Treefinder)
'75 Kawasaki S3 400 (2-stroke triple)
'74 BMW R90/6 (Gentleman's Express)

"txmxrider" wrote in message
...
Hello,

Please forgive me for asking a newbie question. I'm considering getting a
smallish (19'-23'), swing keel, water ballast, sailboat for family
recreation on local lakes. I don't know much about sailing but I've been a
power boat owner for 30 years. Big difference, I know, but bear with me.
For
budget reasons I prefer not to have to rent a slip and would like to keep
my
boat at home and trailer to the lake on weekends. In all of my years of
boating I have never seen anyone trailer a sailboat to the lake, raise the
mast, and launch. Every sailboat I have ever seen either came from a slip
or
at the very least, was sitting on a trailer stored at the marina with the
mast up and presumably launched right there in that manner. I see photos
and
ads for 'mast raising' systems but I have to assume that it's too much
trouble to trailer a sailboat on weekends or more people would be doing
it.
Obviously it would be more involved than launching say a bass boat, but
really, how much trouble is it? Is the idea totally impractical? Are some
models easier than others to launch?

Although I'm not a lazy guy, far from it actually, I'm still very
concerned
that a boat with a poor work-to-fun ratio will sit in the driveway and not
get used that much.

I appreciate any thoughts the group may have on this subject, pro and con.
--
Everett
'04 KTM 300 EXC (Treefinder)
'75 Kawasaki S3 400 (2-stroke triple)
'74 BMW R90/6 (Gentleman's Express)

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 11:22:09 -0500, "txmxrider"
wrote:

Hello,

Please forgive me for asking a newbie question. I'm considering getting a
smallish (19'-23'), swing keel, water ballast, sailboat for family
recreation on local lakes. I don't know much about sailing but I've been a
power boat owner for 30 years. Big difference, I know, but bear with me. For
budget reasons I prefer not to have to rent a slip and would like to keep my
boat at home and trailer to the lake on weekends. In all of my years of
boating I have never seen anyone trailer a sailboat to the lake, raise the
mast, and launch. Every sailboat I have ever seen either came from a slip or
at the very least, was sitting on a trailer stored at the marina with the
mast up and presumably launched right there in that manner. I see photos and
ads for 'mast raising' systems but I have to assume that it's too much
trouble to trailer a sailboat on weekends or more people would be doing it.
Obviously it would be more involved than launching say a bass boat, but
really, how much trouble is it? Is the idea totally impractical? Are some
models easier than others to launch?

Although I'm not a lazy guy, far from it actually, I'm still very concerned
that a boat with a poor work-to-fun ratio will sit in the driveway and not
get used that much.

I appreciate any thoughts the group may have on this subject, pro and con.

My wife and I easily setup our Catalina 22 (swing keel, kickup rudder) in
less than 30 minutes. We use a spar on the trailer for raising the mast
and it's always ready to go. Just a matter of moving the mast back to the
mast step (there's a extending mast support device with roller at the stern
in place of the rudder), connecting the line from the trailer (always in
place with a separate winch) to the jib halyard, and cranking it up. My
wife cranks while I provide lateral support. There's a roller furler for
the headsail that saves time in hooking and unhooking that sail. We
strongly recommend a furler for a trailered sailboat - big time saver. We
do remove the rudder for trailering but leave the outboard motor in place,
secured by a heavy strap. The boat also has a bimini.

Virtually all of the shackles are snap shackles and the straps for tie
downs when trailering are friction buckle or quick connect types or velcro.

It's a breeze to do and I've never understood why folks aren't more likely
to trailer a small sailboat like this. If us 70-somethings can do it,
anyone can!

If you would like more details (or even photos) of our mast raising system,
just email me by replacing the "austin" in the return address above with
"suddenlink".

LB