In article ,
Laura or Brian wrote:

Does anybody have any experience with this company? The plan is, you buy
a boat from them, they charter it out and maintain it and the proceeds
from this rental use pays for the boat and allows you a coupla months
use for yourself, plus some annual profit. Eventually, you own the boat
outright and can either continue the relationship for fun and profit or
sail away into the sunset. They advertise in Sail Magazine.
Thanks for any info.


The other posts are all good, showing several sides of the story. But
for the real scoop, I'd check with the owner's group. I don't know where
it is any more, but a Google should turn them up.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Does anybody have any experience with this company? The plan is, you buy
a boat from them, they charter it out and maintain it and the proceeds
from this rental use pays for the boat and allows you a coupla months
use for yourself, plus some annual profit. Eventually, you own the boat
outright and can either continue the relationship for fun and profit or
sail away into the sunset. They advertise in Sail Magazine.
Thanks for any info.

.


Now for an Australian perspective..

I looked at purchasing for charter but the numbers just didn't make sense. Even with the tax effectiveness the cost was higher than outright purchase. Several people have commented on the 'floating dormitory' syndrome which is a real problem. I wound up buying a ex-charter boat from Sunsail out of French Polynesia. I bought it because it was a good deal and the boat in question was an owner's configuration. Survey report was neutral based upon a boat of 7 years old. Once I got my hands on it everything was as described and in good condition for its age. I am now happily sailing a Jeanneau SO 37.2 in the Bass Strait area of Australia. BTW Sunsail brokerage was very professional and honest through the whole purchase/survey/transport phase

--
Regards
John VK3J
S/V Chagall

Laura or Brian wrote:

Does anybody have any experience with this company? The plan is, you
buy a boat from them, they charter it out and maintain it and the
proceeds from this rental use pays for the boat and allows you a
coupla months use for yourself, plus some annual profit. Eventually,
you own the boat outright and can either continue the relationship for
fun and profit or sail away into the sunset. They advertise in Sail
Magazine.
Thanks for any info.

All the comments I see are pretty negative. . I didn't see any posts
from people who have done it but if you'd like to read about/communicate
with someone who has a successful relationship with a charter company
(not Moorings) check out

http://www.usual-suspects-sailing.com

Jim.

Laura or Brian wrote in message ...
Does anybody have any experience with this company? The plan is, you buy
a boat from them, they charter it out and maintain it and the proceeds
from this rental use pays for the boat and allows you a coupla months
use for yourself, plus some annual profit. Eventually, you own the boat
outright and can either continue the relationship for fun and profit or
sail away into the sunset. They advertise in Sail Magazine.
Thanks for any info.


Disclaimer: I have no experience chartering with The Moorings or
owning a charter boat. What I tell you comes from my own research into
charter boat ownership.

The Moorings is the oldest and were, prior to the merger of Sunsail
and Stardust, the largest bareboat charter operation around. Quite
often people who have never chartered before are recommended to The
Moorings because of their efficiency and high level of service
especially to new charterers. What this means to you as an owner of
course is that you may get a higher percentage of first time
charterers on your boat. That's not necessarily bad, just something to
be aware of.

Yes you will have income from charters and it may be enough to cover
your loan payments and maybe even leave you with a little profit. But
the average charter contract is for 3 - 5 years and the average loan
term is much longer than that. And as we all know, when paying off a
loan, in the beginning you are paying mostly interest. You could wind
up at the end of the charter contract owing more for your boat than
it's actually worth if you were to try to sell it. Selling the boat at
this point is certainly an option, but not necessarily a good one.
Many people try to do this and thus the market is fairly saturated
with 5 - 10 year old Moorings boats which deflates their value. Also
since the boats are optimized for charter operation they may not be as
attractive to boat buyers looking for a good blue water cruising boat.

If at the end of your contract you can afford to "sail off into the
sunset" and make the remaining payments yourself, why not charter for
a few years and then when you are ready to sail away buy a 5 - 10 year
old boat. You will probably spend a lot less on charters than you
would plunking down 20% - 25% on a new boat. Also you will have much
greater range of boats to choose from when you are ready to sail away
than you will buying a new boat through a charter company.

I'm not trying to discourage you from doing this if it's what you want
to do, just be sure that you go into it with your eyes open. From the
tone of your question it sounds as though you are just beginning to
think about charter boat ownership. Be sure to do your homework before
making any deals.

There is a good amount of information on http://www.sailonline.com/
both for charterers and charter boat owners. Specifically they offer a
couple of spreadsheets which layout the costs and benefits of
ownership and study it from a few different angles, defraying the cost
of boat ownership, as the cost of several years worth of vacations and
even as a financial investment. I hope you find it useful.

Bob

Bob Gough wrote in message
om...

The Moorings is the oldest and were, prior to the merger of
Sunsail
and Stardust, the largest bareboat charter operation around.
Quite
often people who have never chartered before are recommended to
The
Moorings because of their efficiency and high level of service
enormous snip

Very accurate and balanced reply, Bob.

I used to own and run a charter fleet of some 70 yachts and we
looked at this technique. It handed the finance costs
(depreciation especially) to the owner, and these are by far the
biggest costs of running a fleet. We didn't do it in the end
because:

We reached a similar conclusion to you. In the long term, finance
costs are a lot lower buying second hand boats, and doing them up
really well.

So what we did was keep our (own) ex-charter boats, do them up
really well, and run them for a further 15 years or more. We kept
a steady trickle of new boats coming in, and our gamble was that
the market wouldn't turn its nose up at the older boats. It
didn't.

I sold out some 15 years ago, and I note that the outfit is still
running with the same policy, and that (together with another
using the same policy) they're both great value for money for
charterers, and also the most profitable outfits for their
turnovers in the business.

JimB

Bob Gough wrote in message
om...

The Moorings is the oldest and were, prior to the merger of
Sunsail
and Stardust, the largest bareboat charter operation around.
Quite
often people who have never chartered before are recommended to
The
Moorings because of their efficiency and high level of service
enormous snip

Very accurate and balanced reply, Bob.

I used to own and run a charter fleet of some 70 yachts and we
looked at this technique. It handed the finance costs
(depreciation especially) to the owner, and these are by far the
biggest costs of running a fleet. We didn't do it in the end
because:

We reached a similar conclusion to you. In the long term, finance
costs are a lot lower buying second hand boats, and doing them up
really well.

So what we did was keep our (own) ex-charter boats, do them up
really well, and run them for a further 15 years or more. We kept
a steady trickle of new boats coming in, and our gamble was that
the market wouldn't turn its nose up at the older boats. It
didn't.

I sold out some 15 years ago, and I note that the outfit is still
running with the same policy, and that (together with another
using the same policy) they're both great value for money for
charterers, and also the most profitable outfits for their
turnovers in the business.

JimB

Hello all:

I read with great interest the long exchanges about charter boat
ownership, with or w/o Moorings.

I must first disclose the following:
1. I am currently on my 3rd. boat in the Moorings management program
2. I am the president of the Moorings Owners Group - an independent
association of about 230 Moorings boat owners, the intent of which is
to collaborate with the Moorings' management to maintain a good
quality of ownership-life for Moorings owners. I repeat: The
association is independent, just in case it would appear that this
would make me a Moorings apologist, which I am not, of course.
3. I am also the founder of Sailonline.com, which was quoted in a
posting. And the site is COMPLETELY independent from any charter
company.

That said, there were several accurate postings, and some very
inaccurate about this whole issue.

I will not elaborate much because, as one of the postings said,
everything is explained on the web site in great details. However,
know this:

a) Charter boat ownership is NOT for everyone who just wants to buy a
boat. It can make a lot of sense for person X and no sense at all for
person Y. The issue is further complicated by the fact that charter
companies are not all alike: some programs fit a certain type of boat
use and ownership, and some don't. For instance, if you want a very
customized boat, Moorings and Sunsail will NOT accomodate you at all.
If you want to sail your boat 3 or 4 months a year, again, those 2
will not accomodate you.
But in both cases above, TMM or Horizon gladly will.

b) Boat ownership CAN be a great experience, on a sailing and
financial standpoint. However, you MUST do a lot of serious soul
searching and homework, and know ALL the details of what you are
getting into BEFOREHAND. No stone unturned. And this is more
complicated than it appears.
It is interesting to note that most people do a huge amount of
research before buying a house, but very little when buying a boat,
although a boat can have the same cost AND depreciate 40 or 50% in 5
years! The reason: EMOTION (see below).

c) Do NOT get emotional when negotiating your boat and contract. I
have consulted for about a dozen of boat-buying families and most get
very emotional out of excitment, against my strong advice. The minute
it happens, it's all over: The salesperson has won. So be prepared to
coldly walk instantly if any of the clauses in the contract makes you
uncomfortable and the charter company is not willing to negotiate it.
If you don't, you will regret it. Guaranteed.

Having said all that, when you've done the home work and everything
that goes with it, and when you have made sure that ownership is
indeed suitable for you and your family- in one word, if you know what
you are doing- then, yes, ownership is a very rewarding experience. On
many counts.

I hope this helps.

Michel Benarrosh

Hello all:

I read with great interest the long exchanges about charter boat
ownership, with or w/o Moorings.

I must first disclose the following:
1. I am currently on my 3rd. boat in the Moorings management program
2. I am the president of the Moorings Owners Group - an independent
association of about 230 Moorings boat owners, the intent of which is
to collaborate with the Moorings' management to maintain a good
quality of ownership-life for Moorings owners. I repeat: The
association is independent, just in case it would appear that this
would make me a Moorings apologist, which I am not, of course.
3. I am also the founder of Sailonline.com, which was quoted in a
posting. And the site is COMPLETELY independent from any charter
company.

That said, there were several accurate postings, and some very
inaccurate about this whole issue.

I will not elaborate much because, as one of the postings said,
everything is explained on the web site in great details. However,
know this:

a) Charter boat ownership is NOT for everyone who just wants to buy a
boat. It can make a lot of sense for person X and no sense at all for
person Y. The issue is further complicated by the fact that charter
companies are not all alike: some programs fit a certain type of boat
use and ownership, and some don't. For instance, if you want a very
customized boat, Moorings and Sunsail will NOT accomodate you at all.
If you want to sail your boat 3 or 4 months a year, again, those 2
will not accomodate you.
But in both cases above, TMM or Horizon gladly will.

b) Boat ownership CAN be a great experience, on a sailing and
financial standpoint. However, you MUST do a lot of serious soul
searching and homework, and know ALL the details of what you are
getting into BEFOREHAND. No stone unturned. And this is more
complicated than it appears.
It is interesting to note that most people do a huge amount of
research before buying a house, but very little when buying a boat,
although a boat can have the same cost AND depreciate 40 or 50% in 5
years! The reason: EMOTION (see below).

c) Do NOT get emotional when negotiating your boat and contract. I
have consulted for about a dozen of boat-buying families and most get
very emotional out of excitment, against my strong advice. The minute
it happens, it's all over: The salesperson has won. So be prepared to
coldly walk instantly if any of the clauses in the contract makes you
uncomfortable and the charter company is not willing to negotiate it.
If you don't, you will regret it. Guaranteed.

Having said all that, when you've done the home work and everything
that goes with it, and when you have made sure that ownership is
indeed suitable for you and your family- in one word, if you know what
you are doing- then, yes, ownership is a very rewarding experience. On
many counts.

I hope this helps.

Michel Benarrosh