Consider that it doesn't really matter as long as there is flow of fluid
media over the rudder.

but it does, because the rudder and prop are hooked together. If the prop were
fixed as to direction, the rudder would turn into it until the movement
stopped.

Consider the fact that fluid drawn over a rudder by a prop may have an
effect on how the stern moves, but one that is much less then prop walk.


the "good professor" argued that without friction in the rudder bearings rudder
would move. I say it doesn't.

plainly, a shot of forward throttle with the rudder turned turns the stern, and
all (most?) mariners know in which direction the boat will turn from
experience. nobody can remember which direction a boat will turn with a shot
of reverse throttle because nobody has seen it.

On 30 Mar 2004 01:37:32 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

Consider that it doesn't really matter as long as there is flow of fluid
media over the rudder.

but it does, because the rudder and prop are hooked together. If the prop were
fixed as to direction, the rudder would turn into it until the movement
stopped.

no it doesn't. It doesn't matter that they are attached. The rudder
will have an effect if there is water flowing over it. Whether that
effect is just to lessen or greaten the larger effect of prop walk, it's
still an effect.

Consider the fact that fluid drawn over a rudder by a prop may have an
effect on how the stern moves, but one that is much less then prop walk.

plainly, a shot of forward throttle with the rudder turned turns the stern, and
all (most?) mariners know in which direction the boat will turn from
experience. nobody can remember which direction a boat will turn with a shot
of reverse throttle because nobody has seen it.

Of course that doesn't mean the rudder has no effect at all, which is
what you claimed.

Steve

think it through, steve. think it through.

no it doesn't. It doesn't matter that they are attached. The rudder
will have an effect if there is water flowing over it.

so, which way does the stern move if the rudder is to port?

On 30 Mar 2004 19:53:18 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

think it through, steve. think it through.

no it doesn't. It doesn't matter that they are attached. The rudder
will have an effect if there is water flowing over it.

so, which way does the stern move if the rudder is to port?

forward or reverse? rh prop or lh prop? how much prop walk?

Steve

think it through, steve. think it through.

no it doesn't. It doesn't matter that they are attached. The rudder
will have an effect if there is water flowing over it.

so, which way does the stern move if the rudder is to port?

forward or reverse? rh prop or lh prop? how much prop walk?

reverse (that was the discussion), and your choice (neither affects the
outcome) and your choice (no value affects the outcome).


Steve

Of course that doesn't mean the rudder has no effect at all, which is
what you claimed.

you can't see it, you can't measure it, you can't detect that it is there at
all, but it still exists? How is that?

And which way does the stern move with the rudder one way or the other?


Steve

On 30 Mar 2004 19:54:48 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

Of course that doesn't mean the rudder has no effect at all, which is
what you claimed.

you can't see it, you can't measure it, you can't detect that it is there at
all, but it still exists? How is that?

You can measure it. You can detect if it's there or not. All you need
are stress sensors on the rudder post to measure what the rudder is
doing.

And which way does the stern move with the rudder one way or the other?

That's a big "it depends". Of course that doesn't mean the rudder has
no effect. The same thing can be said for the engine in forward. I.e.,
you can't predict which way the boat will turn when you turn the rudder
one way or another if other factors, like the wind, have a greater
effect than the rudder.

Steve

you can't see it, you can't measure it, you can't detect that it is there at
all, but it still exists? How is that?

You can measure it. You can detect if it's there or not. All you need
are stress sensors on the rudder post to measure what the rudder is
doing.

how about the "stress sensors" you have on the steering wheel or tiller. What
are *they* telling you?

On 31 Mar 2004 00:37:12 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

you can't see it, you can't measure it, you can't detect that it is there at
all, but it still exists? How is that?

You can measure it. You can detect if it's there or not. All you need
are stress sensors on the rudder post to measure what the rudder is
doing.

how about the "stress sensors" you have on the steering wheel or tiller. What
are *they* telling you?

One thing they may not be telling you is the small amount lateral force
generated by a prop in reverse.

Steve

you can't see it, you can't feel it, you can't measure it, but ...

they may not be telling you is the small amount lateral force
generated by a prop in reverse.

sure, schlackoff. sure.