Okay, after getting advice here, I'm the guy who wouldn't go $8500 for a
'68 Newport 30,' and after seeing the Piver and hearing the warnings,
ran, as advised (though the hull looked in good shape from what I could
see, but it needed much work, the masts looked scary for example, and it
wasn't as roomy below as I thought it would be...

My boat-looking last weekend at a Ranger 29' and some Catalina 27's and
smaller, along with some power boats, taught me that for my family I
need at least the size of the Ranger 29,' and hopefully bigger, like a
Catalina 30' would be fabulous, sizewise. My problem is my budget, which
is about $8K for a *working* cruiser/weekender.

So it seems I need some kind of edge, which leads me to consider boat
auctions. Many of these boats are confiscated by the Marina's right? and
are perfectly fine, many of them?

Anyway, there's this guy who is an acquaintance of a friend of mine who
buys boats at auctions, fixes them and sells them; who thinks he can get
this beautiful sloop, bigger and with a much better reputation than the
Catalina 30,' for within my budget. The lowest I can find any similar
boats on the internet is about $18,000!

The guy seems okay, I went and looked at the impounded boat at the
Marina (only from the outside so far since the boat still hasn't been
taken over by the Marina quite yet), and I loved it, from what I could
see. Anyway, this seems to get me everything I want, a boat I can get
back what I put into it (decked out versions on the internet go for
$25K!), it's big enough, a good sailor. What should I watch out for?
Does anyone here no about boat auctions? Is this too good to be true?

Thanks,

Stephen

What kind of boat are you looking at?
Prices at Yachtworld, or elsewhere on the internet, are asking prices,
figure actual purchase prices are about 2/3 of asking.

Be VERY careful. A cheap boat can be the most expensive kind.
Jim

Stephen Trapani wrote:
Okay, after getting advice here, I'm the guy who wouldn't go $8500 for a
'68 Newport 30,' and after seeing the Piver and hearing the warnings,
ran, as advised (though the hull looked in good shape from what I could
see, but it needed much work, the masts looked scary for example, and it
wasn't as roomy below as I thought it would be...

My boat-looking last weekend at a Ranger 29' and some Catalina 27's and
smaller, along with some power boats, taught me that for my family I
need at least the size of the Ranger 29,' and hopefully bigger, like a
Catalina 30' would be fabulous, sizewise. My problem is my budget, which
is about $8K for a *working* cruiser/weekender.

So it seems I need some kind of edge, which leads me to consider boat
auctions. Many of these boats are confiscated by the Marina's right? and
are perfectly fine, many of them?

Anyway, there's this guy who is an acquaintance of a friend of mine who
buys boats at auctions, fixes them and sells them; who thinks he can get
this beautiful sloop, bigger and with a much better reputation than the
Catalina 30,' for within my budget. The lowest I can find any similar
boats on the internet is about $18,000!

The guy seems okay, I went and looked at the impounded boat at the
Marina (only from the outside so far since the boat still hasn't been
taken over by the Marina quite yet), and I loved it, from what I could
see. Anyway, this seems to get me everything I want, a boat I can get
back what I put into it (decked out versions on the internet go for
$25K!), it's big enough, a good sailor. What should I watch out for?
Does anyone here no about boat auctions? Is this too good to be true?

Thanks,

Stephen

Jim's right on his first point (what kind of boat is it?), but too
cautious on his second point. I'd say that cheap boats are often, even
usually, the most expensive kind.

There is one tactic you might consider that I used once: Basically walk
the docks looking for boats of the type you have in mind, but that are
waaaay neglected. You know the ones, they have a foot of growth on
their bottoms and their registration stickers are several years out of
date. Then write letters to the owners that basically state the truth.
i.e. You desperately want a boat of this type that you can enjoy while
introducing your kids to boating, but that your budget for is, by
necessity, extremely limited. That you spotted this boat at the marina,
and while it's obvious it was once a much loved boat, it is also
apparent that it's been neglected of late and needs a lot of tender
loving care. Would you be open to exploring the possibility of selling
it? Then sending the letters to the owners. You probably won't be able
to get their addresses from the harbor masters, but I was usually able
to persuade them to accept the letter stamped and unsealed so they can
see what you're sending and address them, protecting the privacy of the
owner.

Some of these boats are just sitting there because a husband died, or
there have been health problems or whatever. They sit there for years
partially because there is still an emotional bond to the boat, but
largely because the task of getting things organized enough to get the
boat cleaned up and selling it is just more of a task than the owner can
handle. Tug at their heartstrings a little, putting it so that the
thought of another young family taking care of and loving their old boat
comes across in an undertone. At the same time, you're removing all of
the perceived effort of selling it.

One advantage of doing it this way is that the owner often will have no
idea what the actual resale value of the boat is. All they know is what
they paid for it a very long time ago and that it's in pretty poor shape
now (especially if you include a photo). Sometimes this works against
you as they have unrealisticly high expectations, but sometimes, they
have way under valued the boat in their minds. You can take advantage
of this. Don't make an offer, but once contact is made, gently ask them
what kind of an offer they would need. Then whatever they say, look
strained and explain that that's really more thn you could manage, ...
you get the idea.

Note that this is something of a numbers game. The more owners you can
get a response from, the more likely it is that you'll find one that is
willing to part with their boat for what you can afford.

Of course, now that I've posted this idea on the internet, I'll never be
able to use it again as these guys (and the harbor masters) will be
inundated by people like you. Fortunately, I expect to keep the boat
I've got now for a very long time.

Do not forget to figure into your budget the costs of boat ownership.
They are ALWAYS much higher that you expect.

Good luck! Dan

Jim said:
What kind of boat are you looking at?
Be VERY careful. A cheap boat can be the most expensive kind.



Stephen Trapani wrote:
...My problem is my budget, which
is about $8K for a *working* cruiser/weekender.
...
there's this guy who is an acquaintance of a friend of mine who
...thinks he can get
this beautiful sloop, bigger and with a much better reputation than the
Catalina 30,' for within my budget.

--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean"
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

Stephen Trapani wrote:
Okay, after getting advice here, I'm the guy who wouldn't go $8500 for a
'68 Newport 30,' and after seeing the Piver and hearing the warnings,
ran
....snip...
Is this too good to be true?

Stephen,

You seem like a smart guy and you're a fellow Northwesterner, so I
hate to rain on your parade. We get enough of that here as it is.
But...

Remember the old saying, "If it sounds too good to be true, it is."

Obviously I have zero personal knowledge about any of the specifics
you're looking at. It's possible you could get the deal of the
century. IMO, it's more likely you're gonna get an education in
economics.

I don't remember if you gave any history in your original post. Have
you considered simply chartering? When you take that initial $multi-K
investment, then add on everything you hafta add on to own a boat year
'round, like marina fees, insurance, maintenance, repairs, etc. Well,
it just might be more economically realistic to charter or join a
sailing club and do a time-share kinda deal. There are lots of those
around Puget Sound.

What type of boat is this repo/lien/auction thingy?

Frank (in Everett)

Frank Maier wrote:

Stephen Trapani wrote:

Okay, after getting advice here, I'm the guy who wouldn't go $8500 for a
'68 Newport 30,' and after seeing the Piver and hearing the warnings,
ran

...snip...

Is this too good to be true?


Stephen,

You seem like a smart guy and you're a fellow Northwesterner, so I
hate to rain on your parade. We get enough of that here as it is.
But...

Remember the old saying, "If it sounds too good to be true, it is."

Obviously I have zero personal knowledge about any of the specifics
you're looking at. It's possible you could get the deal of the
century. IMO, it's more likely you're gonna get an education in
economics.

Do you know about Marina auctions? I mean, there's no one there trying
to cheat you, it's a randomly impounded boat, it could easily be great,
right? The marinas dump these boats to get back their lost moorage
money. Aren't these marina auctions common? Are they the best kept
secret in boating or something? What, my luck I finally stumbled on that
gold mine I've been dreaming of all my life?!!! ;-)

I don't remember if you gave any history in your original post. Have
you considered simply chartering? When you take that initial $multi-K
investment, then add on everything you hafta add on to own a boat year
'round, like marina fees,

I have property on the Puget Sound, on a little bay, I'm planning to put
in a buoy, or actually, have one put in professionally. It's in the budget.

insurance, maintenance, repairs, etc.

Again, my nutty idea: If I get the right boat at the right price, like a
neglected, quality boat with some age, that has value, I'll get my money
back from maintenance and repairs won't I? or a good chunk of it?
Meanwhile I can have fun sailing and cruising around the massive
shoreline that is Puget Sound with my family. Even if it needs a few
thousand for a new motor and a few thousand for new sails, I can put my
elbow grease into it, etc, and have it worth more in five years or so,
if I want to move up in boats, or if I want to get out of boats altogether.

Well,
it just might be more economically realistic to charter or join a
sailing club and do a time-share kinda deal. There are lots of those
around Puget Sound.

I have the money sitting there, waiting to become a boat.


What type of boat is this repo/lien/auction thingy?

A Hunter, over 30,' don't know the year yet.

Stephen

Frank Maier wrote:
Remember the old saying, "If it sounds too good to be true, it is."
Obviously I have zero personal knowledge about any of the specifics
you're looking at. It's possible you could get the deal of the
century. IMO, it's more likely you're gonna get an education in
economics.

And generally, this kind of lesson is something that you already knew
but were hoping for an exception this one time....


Stephen Trapani wrote:
Do you know about Marina auctions? I mean, there's no one there trying
to cheat you, it's a randomly impounded boat, it could easily be great,
right?

Yes, it *could* but the odds are much greater that the boat is of
negative value and is being auctioned to save the lien holder the price
of stripping it & cutting it up for the landfill.


... The marinas dump these boats to get back their lost moorage
money. Aren't these marina auctions common? Are they the best kept
secret in boating or something? What, my luck I finally stumbled on that
gold mine I've been dreaming of all my life?!!! ;-)

I can only say that I have not heard of them, as a regular practice. I
know of several boatyards that park old unwanted boats in a tight pile
at a far corner, and that these boats are generally not worth taking for
free. Almost all sailing clubs have rules that boats must have current
registration, but such rules are rarely enforced and most sailing clubs
have a bone yard of badly neglected never-sailors.

Sometimes marinas get sheriff's papers on boats they really want to
dump, but this is somewhat of a last resort AFAIK and these boats will
always have a cloudy title *as well as* being fit for the scrap yard. I
have known several people over the years to pick up boats like this, but
it always cost them many times more than they figured and lots more time
to actually get them in sailing order. Always.

What you might do is take Dan Best's advice and scavenge around all the
marinas and sailing clubs and try to pick up a boat that is still worth
having from the fringes of these ghost fleets.

It's painful to want a boat, to want to go sailing, so badly and see so
many boats just sitting unused.


Again, my nutty idea: If I get the right boat at the right price, like a
neglected, quality boat with some age, that has value, I'll get my money
back from maintenance and repairs won't I?

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA (cough cough)... dang I needed that.

Stephen, if you spend a lot of time & money keeping your boat in really
good shape, you will get back some of your money in the form of selling
it in the higher range of going prices. That could be anything! You will
get back some tiny fraction of upgrades & equipment, but you will never
get back a penny of regular maintenance. And not even the lowliest
cleaning materials aren't free.


I have the money sitting there, waiting to become a boat.


My advice... invest in a no-load index fund, join a local sailing club,
buy a tent and a sailing dinghy (preferably a racing class). You'll gain
a lot of experience, get a chance to share it with your family, AND
you'll still have the money. Best of all worlds! Then you will have a
chance to get a bigger better boat than you can afford now, and your
family will fit into the dream instead of standing outside wondering why
you've suddenly gone crazy.

I hope this doesn't sound negative, I'm really trying to help!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"If I get the right boat at the right price, like a neglected, quality boat
with some age, that has value, I'll get my money back from maintenance and
repairs won't I? or a good chunk of it?"

No.

While it's true that, if you are not careful, you could buy a financial
disaster, There are plenty of bargains to be had. I have a retired friend
with both excellent knowledge of boats and the ability and equipment to fix
whatever needs to be fixed. He regularly buys boats; cleans up, fixes up,
often sails them for awhile and then resells them. Usually buys in the
winter and sells in the summer. Many of these he buys on Ebay sight unseen.
But he knows the right questions to ask and if he wins a bid and then finds
the boat to be other than represented, he refuses the buy and posts a bad
"feedback" on the seller. He has made some really great buys this way.
OTOH, if you have to pay a shop to do the work, then it is unlikely it will
be a good financial deal. Caveat Emptor!

"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message
...
Frank Maier wrote:

Stephen Trapani wrote:

Okay, after getting advice here, I'm the guy who wouldn't go $8500 for a
'68 Newport 30,' and after seeing the Piver and hearing the warnings,
ran

...snip...

Is this too good to be true?


Stephen,

You seem like a smart guy and you're a fellow Northwesterner, so I
hate to rain on your parade. We get enough of that here as it is.
But...

Remember the old saying, "If it sounds too good to be true, it is."

Obviously I have zero personal knowledge about any of the specifics
you're looking at. It's possible you could get the deal of the
century. IMO, it's more likely you're gonna get an education in
economics.

Do you know about Marina auctions? I mean, there's no one there trying
to cheat you, it's a randomly impounded boat, it could easily be great,
right? The marinas dump these boats to get back their lost moorage
money. Aren't these marina auctions common? Are they the best kept
secret in boating or something? What, my luck I finally stumbled on that
gold mine I've been dreaming of all my life?!!! ;-)

I don't remember if you gave any history in your original post. Have
you considered simply chartering? When you take that initial $multi-K
investment, then add on everything you hafta add on to own a boat year
'round, like marina fees,

I have property on the Puget Sound, on a little bay, I'm planning to put
in a buoy, or actually, have one put in professionally. It's in the
budget.

insurance, maintenance, repairs, etc.

Again, my nutty idea: If I get the right boat at the right price, like a
neglected, quality boat with some age, that has value, I'll get my money
back from maintenance and repairs won't I? or a good chunk of it?
Meanwhile I can have fun sailing and cruising around the massive
shoreline that is Puget Sound with my family. Even if it needs a few
thousand for a new motor and a few thousand for new sails, I can put my
elbow grease into it, etc, and have it worth more in five years or so,
if I want to move up in boats, or if I want to get out of boats
altogether.

Well,
it just might be more economically realistic to charter or join a
sailing club and do a time-share kinda deal. There are lots of those
around Puget Sound.

I have the money sitting there, waiting to become a boat.


What type of boat is this repo/lien/auction thingy?

A Hunter, over 30,' don't know the year yet.

Stephen

On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:44:07 -0800, Stephen Trapani
wrote:
What type of boat is this repo/lien/auction thingy?

A Hunter, over 30,' don't know the year yet.

=================================

The Catalina is probably the better boat all other things being equal.

Unfortunately your economic assumptions don't hold up to the scrutiny
of real world experience.

Most boats that have arrived at "auction" status, did so because the
present owner could not afford to keep them up for one reason or
another. Therefore you are almost guaranteed to be buying a LOT of
deferred maintenance issues, many of which will cost as much or more
than your proposed purchase price. A new 30 footer costs 100K plus,
ready to sail. That gives you some idea what repair and replacement
of major items is going to cost you, all of which will be done at
today's prices, not used auction prices.

My advice is to buy a smaller trailer sailer that will leave you with
plenty of cash for maintenance and upgrades, and allow you to do your
own haul-outs. If you have $8k cash in your budget, my advice would
be to spend no more than 40% on your purchase. There are Rangers and
Catalinas in the 22 and 23 foot range that can be bought for that
price and are very popular.

Get a good pre-purchase survey no matter what, and don't fall in love
with any one deal or any one boat. There are lots of older boats out
there looking for homes.

Stephen Trapani wrote:
Frank Maier wrote:
Stephen Trapani wrote:
Okay, after getting advice here, I'm the guy who wouldn't go $8500 for a
'68 Newport 30,' and after seeing the Piver and hearing the warnings,
ran
...snip...
Is this too good to be true?

Stephen,

You seem like a smart guy and you're a fellow Northwesterner, so I
hate to rain on your parade. We get enough of that here as it is.
But...
Remember the old saying, "If it sounds too good to be true, it is."
Obviously I have zero personal knowledge about any of the specifics
you're looking at. It's possible you could get the deal of the
century. IMO, it's more likely you're gonna get an education in
economics.

Do you know about Marina auctions? I mean, there's no one there trying
to cheat you, it's a randomly impounded boat, it could easily be great,
right? The marinas dump these boats to get back their lost moorage
money. Aren't these marina auctions common? Are they the best kept
secret in boating or something? What, my luck I finally stumbled on that
gold mine I've been dreaming of all my life?!!! ;-)

Not specifically, but consider: If the boat is worth $20K, or $15K, or
even $8K, why doesn't the owner sell it himself, pay off his
liens/fees, and pocket at least a little profit? Abandoned vehicles of
any sort are usually in poor condition. But, like I said, it's always
possible that you could wind up with a fabulous deal.

....snip...
insurance, maintenance, repairs, etc.

Again, my nutty idea: If I get the right boat at the right price, like a
neglected, quality boat with some age, that has value, I'll get my money
back from maintenance and repairs won't I? or a good chunk of it?
Meanwhile I can have fun sailing and cruising around the massive
shoreline that is Puget Sound with my family. Even if it needs a few
thousand for a new motor and a few thousand for new sails, I can put my
elbow grease into it, etc, and have it worth more in five years or so,
if I want to move up in boats, or if I want to get out of boats altogether.

My short answer is, "No." Maybe after a lucky deal on a used Swan or a
"collectible" boat or something, but not for a Hunter or most any boat
you're looking at. As always, there could always be a specific
exception and/or I could simply be be wrong. But that's my $.02.

Good luck! Keep us informed of your progress.

Frank