schlackoff, you are beyond belief. A Nobel prize winner in physics is
discussing physics and YOU say you know better. hell, schlackoff, even jeffies
abandoned you to swing slowly in the wind days ago.

first you didn't understand, than when I explained it to you you did, then when
you forgot what I explained (and couldn't remember how to remember) you didn't
believe, and when a world famous physicist explained it to go (complete with
movie) you stated flatly that you know better.

you are beyond belief. go crash a boat.

Never hoid of this Feynman character ...

here you go. 467,000 hits for you read. next time you will know who this
famous man was.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...59-1&q=feynman

btw schlackoff, Feynman won his Nobel prize in physics long ago, which he
got
his before you'll get yours.

...but can you or this Feynman handle a boat? We know you can't, and if Mr
Feynman can't apply his scientific "stuff" to boat handling, what good is he,
his nobel prize, or all his scientific papers to this discussion?

Sorry Jax, I larn't my boat handling by doing, not reading books.
My offer will increase to $600/hr at the end of the day, simply because
you're
a useless aggravation and I know I'll need a new pair of steel toed shoes,
after the first hour, to get your attention.

Shen

schlackoff, go sleep it off. you have been overserved.

I attribute it to the pitch of the blades pulling to a greater
degree on the "down stroke" side of the revolution, than the "upstroke
side"

This is only true -- for a fixed blade prop -- when the shaft is angled AND
the
boat is moving.

Wrong on every point. Spout all the scientific crap you want .... can be
fixed
or variable pitch, horizontal or angled, moving or at the initial start
before
moving. .... what's most important is what the boat handler can see or feel.

A variable pitch prop will generally cause walk even at so called zero
pitch(the degree may vary, but it will still be a factor you need to
address);
a boat with a horizontal shaft will have prop walk, just like one with an
angled shaft (the degree may vary, but it will still be a factor you have to
address); immediately upon turning the prop, before you get sternway, you
will
get "propwalk"(the degree may vary, but it will still be a factor you will
have
to address).
Fer cripes sake, Jax, take some courses, get some experience .....hell, I'll
give you a bargain basement rate .... $800/hr.

Shen

Date: 03/28/2004 16:54 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

schlackoff, go sleep it off. you have been overserved.

Jaxoff, get readmitted .... you don't have a clue as to what I said ....
obviously.
No response, no clue, typical Jaxoff.
Hint, Jaxoff ... what I stated,k apples to a practical application ....
something you have no experience with.

Shen

schlackoff, go sleep it off. you have been overserved.

ubject: Thrust vectoring
From: (JAXAshby)


schlackoff, you are beyond belief.
G are you talking to Shelikoff or Shen, or are you still confused?

A Nobel prize winner in physics is
discussing physics and YOU say you know better.

Yup, when it come to boat handling, I'll bet I can beat any Nobel prize winner
in physics or any other area, hands down..... cause, I know how to handle
boats, pure and simple. (hell, I bet I could teach my daughter to beat you,
hands down, and she Hates boats).

hell, schlackoff, even
jeffies
abandoned you to swing slowly in the wind days ago.

Nah, otn told him not to waste his time with your useless butt .... I do
because I have a jaded sense of humor and enjoy watching you make an ass of
yourself, even if I have to join you in the process.

first you didn't understand, than when I explained it to you you did, then
when
you forgot what I explained (and couldn't remember how to remember) you
didn't
believe, and when a world famous physicist explained it to go (complete with
movie) you stated flatly that you know better.

you are beyond belief. go crash a boat.

ROFL The only one here who doesn't understand is your royal jaxass.
I believe the "flip flop" you refer to is the fact that I stated that when
initially kicking an engine astern, I have seen some rudders move because of
that kick.
On my 26' Contessa, kick the engine astern, and if the rudder was not centered,
it would get pulled further over, before the boat ever started moving.
Now, I realize your book readin and larnin never mentioned this possibility,
but, alas, physics aside, in reality, honest to goodness, really, no lie, gosh
darn, it would happen .....eg go figure.
Naturally, because you have no real experience, you could not understand this,
or anything else, I've said, for that matter, regarding backing and steering.
Simply stated, jaxass, get a job which involves boat handling, work at it year
round in all weather, and come back and see me in about 10 years .... I'll let
you know then, how many more years you'll have to do it, before I'll consider
what you say worth listening to or thinking about.

Shen

Subject: Thrust vectoring
From: (JAXAshby)
Date: 03/28/2004 15:30 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

schlackoff, three day ago you said a prop in reverse would affect a rudder,
then you read my explanation of the phenomenon and flip-flopped. Now, you
have
forgotten what your read, or remember what you understood then, and have
flip-flopped back.

tell us again how you are going to win the Nobel prize in physics as you
prove
Feynman wrong.

Jaxoff, read what I said and try to get mr Feynman to explain it to you,
regarding props and rudders, in reverse.
Only a stupid person would think that because someone has umpteen degrees and a
nobel prize, they should be considered expert boathandlers .... you are a
STUPID PERSON (note the complete use of capital letters).

Shen

PS I know I said "see ya", but you are sooooo amusing, my funny bone just
cain't stop playin a tune on yer dumb responses.

On 28 Mar 2004 19:11:58 GMT, (Shen44) wrote:


G Never hoid of this Feynman character, before this thread....
Shen

He won a Nobel prize.
He was an accomplished bongo player too, and had a taste for women.

But I think you can take it that his bongo-playing talent and Nobel
class research endeavours are pretty well independent from
boat-handling skills. No Nobellist has ever won a major boat race, as
far as I know.

He could make pretty elementary errors too.
Like calculating the work needed to raise a metric tonne 0.1 meters
with a screw jack for instance. He didn't understand that it takes at
least 2000 joules. But then, he wasn't an engineer! :-)

He thought that if you worked out the potential energy equation m.g.h
m= mass, g = 9.81 m/s^2, h = height in meters,
you found the work done on the screw jack, you see....

Brian W

On 28 Mar 2004 15:14:03 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:
Putting the boat in reverse will (after a split second) result in sternway
unless the engine is not running
or the vessel is lashed to the dock. When the sternway becomes sufficient, the
rudder exerts greater influence on the direction of boat than the prop walk
does.

==========================

Absolutely right. One of my favorite strategies for dealing with a
sailboat that has a nasty prop walk in reverse, is to give it a burst
of power in reverse where there is still some maneuvering room, get it
moving sternward at a knot or two, put the engine in neutral to kill
the prop walk, and then let the boat coast backward on momentum while
maneuvering with the rudder. Once the boat is moving the keel and
rudder take over, forward or reverse.

Shen44 wrote in message
...
OK, think I see what you're saying.
First off, I used to run a 65 foot boat with a similar
configuration and
remember a beautiful old 45' ketch with the same thing ... both
had large
degrees of "propwalk".

Interesting. Some of the older boats had engines added later, of
course, and sensibly had prop shafts installed with an offset so
you could remove the shaft without taking the rudder off. That
changed the prop wallk picture a bit!

Secondly, I think we may have different views of what is the
major cause of
prop walk (I attribute it to the pitch of the blades pulling to
a greater
degree on the "down stroke" side of the revolution, than the
"upstroke side").

OK. The only certainty about prop walk is that it must be caused
by the prop in reverse squirting more water to one side of the
boat than the other. We could discuss the mechanism for ages -
but there wouldn't be much practical use to that unless we were
designers!

BG Why would I want to design "propwalk" out? "Propwalk" is
my friend!

Especially pulling the stern in as you come alongside.... bit of
a sod when it's the wrong side though.

JimB

brian? what type of engineering training does an MIT professor of Mech Eng
have?

G Never hoid of this Feynman character, before this thread....
Shen

He won a Nobel prize.
He was an accomplished bongo player too, and had a taste for women.

But I think you can take it that his bongo-playing talent and Nobel
class research endeavours are pretty well independent from
boat-handling skills. No Nobellist has ever won a major boat race, as
far as I know.

He could make pretty elementary errors too.
Like calculating the work needed to raise a metric tonne 0.1 meters
with a screw jack for instance. He didn't understand that it takes at
least 2000 joules. But then, he wasn't an engineer! :-)

He thought that if you worked out the potential energy equation m.g.h
m= mass, g = 9.81 m/s^2, h = height in meters,
you found the work done on the screw jack, you see....

Brian W