Under Way, Not Making Way, Aground and Not Under Command, revisited
 

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 10:45:22 -0400, wrote:

both boats have
broken engines. Now what?

If the sailboat is capable of making way under sail, it is not NUC.
NUC requires an exceptional circumstance such as steering failure,
rigging/sail failure, dismasting, etc.

COLREGS RULE 3 - GENERAL DEFINITIONS
(f) The term 'vessel not under command' means a vessel which through
some exceptional circumstances is unable to manoeuvre as required by
these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another
vessel.

http://users.skynet.be/p.woinin/scolreg.htm

"Theoretically a vessel which has in engine stopped and which is
drifting is not considered as Not Under Command (NUC), but large
commercial vessels which for instance cannot safely anchor near the
coast, are more and more using this method of waiting for a berth or
further orders, at times quite far off at sea. It can takes a long
time to warm up their engine, and therefore they consider themselves
as NUC."

Under Way, Not Making Way, Aground and Not Under Command, revisited
 

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:24:07 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 10:45:22 -0400, wrote:

both boats have
broken engines. Now what?

If the sailboat is capable of making way under sail, it is not NUC.

It's not capable of sailing, and this is an emergency, remember. You
have a minute to do something to avoid colliding with a sailboat that
is drifting with a broken engine. The sails are down in the sail
locker and there is no wind. Your move, Captain!

NUC requires an exceptional circumstance such as steering failure,
rigging/sail failure, dismasting, etc.

COLREGS RULE 3 - GENERAL DEFINITIONS
(f) The term 'vessel not under command' means a vessel which through
some exceptional circumstances is unable to manoeuvre as required by
these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another
vessel.

http://users.skynet.be/p.woinin/scolreg.htm

"Theoretically a vessel which has in engine stopped and which is
drifting is not considered as Not Under Command (NUC), but large
commercial vessels which for instance cannot safely anchor near the
coast, are more and more using this method of waiting for a berth or
further orders, at times quite far off at sea. It can takes a long
time to warm up their engine, and therefore they consider themselves
as NUC."


When my sailboat is drifting, I have no ability to steer, Wayne. I
thought you claimed to be a former sailor?




He refuses to start his engine because he's drift fishing. LOL

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Under Way, Not Making Way, Aground and Not Under Command, revisited
 

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 01:15:37 GMT, wrote:

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 00:03:40 GMT, (Richard Casady)
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:27:57 -0400, wrote:

Yes. If you were other than the novice you run around accusing others of being,
you would know that a 36 foot sailboat with engine off, and a 36 powerboat with
the motor off are equals in the pecking order.

Of course there is no difference between a boat under command and one
not under command. Really? All vessels are required to avoid
collisions. If one can manuver and the other cannot, they are not
equal. One is expected to do something, the other is not. You are not
allowed to hit a drifting boat with one under command. There is a day
shape for under way but not under command. Two black balls. Sometimes
called ' Panamanian running lights ' by the merchant sailors.

Are you drunk? I said that a sailboat with it's engine off and a powerboat with
it's engine off are equals. I did not say either was using any sort of alternate
propulsion. They are both drifting. REALLY!

Sailboats mostly sail, often with engine off. Doesn't make them
adrift. I assumed the sailboat was sailing. Adrift never occured to
me.

Casady

Under Way, Not Making Way, Aground and Not Under Command, revisited
 

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 10:31:54 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

Many people drift fish with the engine off. You are not NUC unless
you are disabled.

As you would have it, an abandoned boat is under command unless it is
also disabled. Interesting concept.

Casady

Under Way, Not Making Way, Aground and Not Under Command, revisited
 

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:24:07 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

"Theoretically a vessel which has in engine stopped and which is
drifting is not considered as Not Under Command (NUC), but large
commercial vessels which for instance cannot safely anchor near the
coast, are more and more using this method of waiting for a berth or
further orders, at times quite far off at sea. It can takes a long
time to warm up their engine, and therefore they consider themselves
as NUC."

Those engines take a long time to cool after shutdown. The engine may
remain warm enough for hours.

Casady

Under Way, Not Making Way, Aground and Not Under Command, revisited
 

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:07:56 GMT, (Richard
Casady) wrote:

As you would have it, an abandoned boat is under command unless it is
also disabled. Interesting concept.

Didn't say that. My post came directly from the COLREGS, not
something I made up. For any boat to be officially treated as NUC it
must be displaying NUC signals or otherwise making it known. Unless
the signals went up before abandonment, how would anyone know what the
status was? It is important to remember that you must do everything
possible to avoid a collision, keep a proper lookout, maintain a safe
speed, avoid close quarters situations, etc. All of those apply
regardless of the official status of an abandoned boat. It's not
really relevant.

Under Way, Not Making Way, Aground and Not Under Command, revisited
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
news:Brqdna7g0p2MWJPVnZ2dnUVZ_vCdnZ2d@bayareasolut ions...


Huh? If the PB's engine's off, then how could it be anything but NUC
unless it's anchored or docked? It has no other means of propulsion. You
can't even steer if you don't have engine. Do you like to turn off your
engine and coast?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com


My, oh my! This idiot has a lot of nerve calling himself a captain. Doesn't
even know the definition of a NUC. Here's a hint, dude! It's got NOTHING to
do with having the engine turned off.

3(f) The term "vessel not under command" means a vessel which through
some exceptional circumstance is unable to maneuver as required by these
Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel.


Since when is turning off the motor an exceptional circumstance that makes
the vessel unable to maneuver . . .? Only in a drug-altered mind?


--
Gregory Hall

Under Way, Not Making Way, Aground and Not Under Command, revisited
 

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:34:12 -0400, wrote:

When my sailboat is drifting, I have no ability to steer, Wayne. I
thought you claimed to be a former sailor?

There is no such thing as a former sailor.

If you have no ability to steer than you might be NUC if some
extraordinary circumstance exists. To be treated as NUC under the
COLREGS you must be displaying the proper signals or make it known in
some other way. If you have the ability to hoist sails and make way
in some reasonable length of time you would almost certainly not be
considered NUC in an admiralty court but they might give you some
benefit of doubt if you properly displayed the NUC signals and/or made
a securite call on the radio. Anyone seeing the NUC signals or
hearing the securite call has to give you the benefit of the doubt
regardless, and none of that relieves another boat from their
obligation to maintain safe speed, maintain a lookout, avoid
collision, take evasive action, sound danger signals, etc.

On the other hand if you just decided to stow your sails, shut down
the engine, and drift around in congested waters, you would be taking
a huge risk with or without NUC signals. It would be reasonable to
assume that you should be standing by with distress signals ready at a
moments notice.

Under Way, Not Making Way, Aground and Not Under Command, revisited
 

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:14:00 -0400, wrote:

The discussion came about because someone suggested that there was
some sort of difference between the status of a drifting sailboat and
a drifting powerboat.

The key point, power or sail, is that COLREGS NUC status requires an
"extrordinary circumstance". Deciding to arbitrarily drift around
does not qualify.

Under Way, Not Making Way, Aground and Not Under Command, revisited
 

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:07:13 GMT, (Richard
Casady) wrote:

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 01:15:37 GMT, wrote:

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 00:03:40 GMT, (Richard
Casady)
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:27:57 -0400, wrote:

Yes. If you were other than the novice you run around accusing others
of being,
you would know that a 36 foot sailboat with engine off, and a 36
powerboat with
the motor off are equals in the pecking order.

Of course there is no difference between a boat under command and one
not under command. Really? All vessels are required to avoid
collisions. If one can manuver and the other cannot, they are not
equal. One is expected to do something, the other is not. You are not
allowed to hit a drifting boat with one under command. There is a day
shape for under way but not under command. Two black balls. Sometimes
called ' Panamanian running lights ' by the merchant sailors.

Are you drunk? I said that a sailboat with it's engine off and a
powerboat with
it's engine off are equals. I did not say either was using any sort of
alternate
propulsion. They are both drifting. REALLY!

Sailboats mostly sail, often with engine off. Doesn't make them
adrift. I assumed the sailboat was sailing. Adrift never occured to
me.

Casady

The discussion came about because someone suggested that there was
some sort of difference between the status of a drifting sailboat and
a drifting powerboat.




The PB is higher in the pecking order, since the people on the sailboat are
laughing so hard at the PB that's adrift that they can't function
temporarily. They'll soon recover and have to negotiate around the PB.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Under Way, Not Making Way, Aground and Not Under Command, revisited
 

"Richard Casady" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 10:31:54 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

Many people drift fish with the engine off. You are not NUC unless
you are disabled.

As you would have it, an abandoned boat is under command unless it is
also disabled. Interesting concept.

Casady


It's a ghost ship..

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Under Way, Not Making Way, Aground and Not Under Command, revisited
 

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:40:58 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Richard Casady" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 10:31:54 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

Many people drift fish with the engine off. You are not NUC unless
you are disabled.

As you would have it, an abandoned boat is under command unless it is
also disabled. Interesting concept.

Casady


It's a ghost ship..

There was the Marie Celeste. Classic case of under way, NUC.

Casady

Under Way, Not Making Way, Aground and Not Under Command,revisited
 

Ho about I'm off on a cruise and I somehow manage to
destroy my prop on a rock? On the way home for the next several
days, I still have to run the engine to keep the batteries up and the
reefer cold.

Forgive my ignorance. Why do you want to keep reefer cold? Is that a
nautical term in this case?

richforman

Under Way, Not Making Way, Aground and Not Under Command, revisited
 

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:03:10 -0400, wrote:

You have no standing to make this claim about what the court would or
would not do. You are just blowing hot air. You've had plenty of
practice.

Capt Doggy, on the off chance you have a USCG rating, I think you need
to sign up for the refresher course.

Under Way, Not Making Way, Aground and Not Under Command, revisited
 

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 22:11:22 GMT, wrote:

You are now claiming to know (or possibly control?) what a court would or would
not do? I have two words for you: PUL EASE

Thank you. As it turns out I have an expert in the family.

Under Way, Not Making Way, Aground and Not Under Command, revisited
 

On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 06:42:37 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:51:54 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 22:11:22 GMT, wrote:

You are now claiming to know (or possibly control?) what a court would or would
not do? I have two words for you: PUL EASE

Thank you. As it turns out I have an expert in the family.

Someone who knows what courts will do without even a trial? This is HUGE! Think
of all the time effort and money that can be saved now that we can replace the
entire legal system with someone in your family.

Gee! You have an expert in your family too? Here I was thinking that I
was the only one who was married to the Last Word in Everything. I
assume that my sympathy is reciprocated :-)

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

Under Way, Not Making Way, Aground and Not Under Command, revisited
 

On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 08:32:52 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 19:21:20 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 06:42:37 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:51:54 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 22:11:22 GMT, wrote:

You are now claiming to know (or possibly control?) what a court would or would
not do? I have two words for you: PUL EASE

Thank you. As it turns out I have an expert in the family.

Someone who knows what courts will do without even a trial? This is HUGE! Think
of all the time effort and money that can be saved now that we can replace the
entire legal system with someone in your family.

Gee! You have an expert in your family too? Here I was thinking that I
was the only one who was married to the Last Word in Everything. I
assume that my sympathy is reciprocated :-)

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

No, that was resident deity WayneB who is omnicient and omnipresent.

Aw, well I'm sorry that you don't have the experience of She Who is
Always Right. I'm not sure that WayneB can give you the full flavor of
the experience.
Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)