Old boats usually cost you about 25-35% over initial cost within 2 to 3
years - one way or another. Nothing wrong with that. You "catch up" with
a smaller boat lots quicker than with a larger one, and since you're
still almost in the "small" category, you should be pretty much OK if
you shop around and get a survey. I concur with those that have said it
doesn't make much sense to worry about resale way down the road. If
you're stuck on resale, some of the older, heavier, known boats like
Pearsons 28's will probably hold value longer. And any boat that looks
like a 17 year old prom queen when you sell it will hold its value. So
it either doesn't matter, or it's up to you.

Newports are light weight boats, sail well (I've raced on them). Leaks
(from top down) can be a problem; the windows can _really_ leak (lived
on one for 6 months). I believe the Newport 30 may be one of the early
boats with the hull cored above the water and the decks cored. This
makes the boat light, quiet, insulated and strong, but spells some
potentially _bad_ problems if the core has got wet and rotted over a
period of time. They had a steering wheel option, but IMHO, that's like
putting a 6'console TV in a 10x12 room - not good.

But this is all stuff a good surveyor will find out, so here's my
standard surveyor plug: Spend lots of time talking to all the dock side
detritus (owners, harbor personel, anybody that you see actually working
on a boat) that will speak to you. Do this repeatedly at every dock and
yacht club within 50 miles or so. You'll find some good boat deals, too.
Try to find out what surveyor names come up again and again, and go talk
with a couple of them. Some will do a "mini survey" to qualify a boat
before going further. It's like lawyers and auto mechanics - they cost
too much money and the good ones can save you 50 times that amount,
easily; the bad ones are less than worthless. Do a search on "Pasco boat
survey". He has a great website about surveying; must read. "Insurance
surveys" usually aren't worth much.

The better boat you can buy, the cheaper it will be in the long run. You
try to buy the best you can while budgeting against the sure knowledge
that it'll cost you significantly a short way down the road. Thus it
_may_ make sense to reduce the grand plan down to a just good plan and
get a 22 foot day sailor in excellent shape with just the basics. Such
a boat will sell again easily within a year or two and it will make the
whole operation less daunting. 80% return for 20% (well, 50%? G) the
cost. For example, if you have a fleet of J24s racing near you and can
find one somewhere that was only sailed by a grandmother, that's your
boat. Generally speaking basics in hull, rig, engine, plumbing, and
electrics (as opposed to electronics) will return value while fancy
racing rigs, electronics, spotlights, stereos, refrigerators (they never
work) don't hold money. Small amouonts of old wood can be finished
pretty relatively easily, cushions cost a small fortune unless your wife
sews (they may still cost _you_ g). Running rigging is easy to
replace, if it's still all there; standing rigging is a project, no
matter how you cut it. If an engine runs sort of OK (get an _engine_
survey) leave it alone - you're not crossing an ocean. If it doesn't,
costs start at $1000 and end somewhere about $20k. Some boats (up to
about 30') can take an outboard off the stern; you don't need much
power, 15-20 hp is way plenty, 10hp will do fine, but you need a
_longshaft_ motor geared for slow running. If you find an otherwise fine
boat with a bad engine, this may be an option (depending on selling
price). But ask the surveyor whether this type of boat works OK with an
outboard. Besides the cost of the outboard, it will cost to install it -
get quotes. You can pull the old engine yourself and get another "room"
down there. The Pardeys put a hottub in their 30' boat under the
companion step where the engine was not.

You said you've sailed in the past, but it might be a good idea to pick
up some rides as "rail meat" with the local racing boats and get your
hand back in before you scare the living bejeesus out of your family.
You can postpone the final big buy by bringing them along to look at
select boats and otherwise getting them involved. Might get some good
input, too. Save your bippy down the road when the wife wants to know
why you didn't get one with an oven and air conditioning...

Welcom back to boats. g

Best luck. Rufus

Old boats usually cost you about 25-35% over initial cost within 2 to 3
years - one way or another. Nothing wrong with that. You "catch up" with
a smaller boat lots quicker than with a larger one, and since you're
still almost in the "small" category, you should be pretty much OK if
you shop around and get a survey. I concur with those that have said it
doesn't make much sense to worry about resale way down the road. If
you're stuck on resale, some of the older, heavier, known boats like
Pearsons 28's will probably hold value longer. And any boat that looks
like a 17 year old prom queen when you sell it will hold its value. So
it either doesn't matter, or it's up to you.

Newports are light weight boats, sail well (I've raced on them). Leaks
(from top down) can be a problem; the windows can _really_ leak (lived
on one for 6 months). I believe the Newport 30 may be one of the early
boats with the hull cored above the water and the decks cored. This
makes the boat light, quiet, insulated and strong, but spells some
potentially _bad_ problems if the core has got wet and rotted over a
period of time. They had a steering wheel option, but IMHO, that's like
putting a 6'console TV in a 10x12 room - not good.

But this is all stuff a good surveyor will find out, so here's my
standard surveyor plug: Spend lots of time talking to all the dock side
detritus (owners, harbor personel, anybody that you see actually working
on a boat) that will speak to you. Do this repeatedly at every dock and
yacht club within 50 miles or so. You'll find some good boat deals, too.
Try to find out what surveyor names come up again and again, and go talk
with a couple of them. Some will do a "mini survey" to qualify a boat
before going further. It's like lawyers and auto mechanics - they cost
too much money and the good ones can save you 50 times that amount,
easily; the bad ones are less than worthless. Do a search on "Pasco boat
survey". He has a great website about surveying; must read. "Insurance
surveys" usually aren't worth much.

The better boat you can buy, the cheaper it will be in the long run. You
try to buy the best you can while budgeting against the sure knowledge
that it'll cost you significantly a short way down the road. Thus it
_may_ make sense to reduce the grand plan down to a just good plan and
get a 22 foot day sailor in excellent shape with just the basics. Such
a boat will sell again easily within a year or two and it will make the
whole operation less daunting. 80% return for 20% (well, 50%? G) the
cost. For example, if you have a fleet of J24s racing near you and can
find one somewhere that was only sailed by a grandmother, that's your
boat. Generally speaking basics in hull, rig, engine, plumbing, and
electrics (as opposed to electronics) will return value while fancy
racing rigs, electronics, spotlights, stereos, refrigerators (they never
work) don't hold money. Small amouonts of old wood can be finished
pretty relatively easily, cushions cost a small fortune unless your wife
sews (they may still cost _you_ g). Running rigging is easy to
replace, if it's still all there; standing rigging is a project, no
matter how you cut it. If an engine runs sort of OK (get an _engine_
survey) leave it alone - you're not crossing an ocean. If it doesn't,
costs start at $1000 and end somewhere about $20k. Some boats (up to
about 30') can take an outboard off the stern; you don't need much
power, 15-20 hp is way plenty, 10hp will do fine, but you need a
_longshaft_ motor geared for slow running. If you find an otherwise fine
boat with a bad engine, this may be an option (depending on selling
price). But ask the surveyor whether this type of boat works OK with an
outboard. Besides the cost of the outboard, it will cost to install it -
get quotes. You can pull the old engine yourself and get another "room"
down there. The Pardeys put a hottub in their 30' boat under the
companion step where the engine was not.

You said you've sailed in the past, but it might be a good idea to pick
up some rides as "rail meat" with the local racing boats and get your
hand back in before you scare the living bejeesus out of your family.
You can postpone the final big buy by bringing them along to look at
select boats and otherwise getting them involved. Might get some good
input, too. Save your bippy down the road when the wife wants to know
why you didn't get one with an oven and air conditioning...

Welcom back to boats. g

Best luck. Rufus

Frank Maier wrote:

Stephen Trapani wrote...

Thanks to all for your replies. In case anyone is still interested in
helping further let me add: If all goes well, I'll never get out of
Puget Sound with the boat I get, so perhaps seaworthiness is not the
hugest concern? Crusing comfort for my family and liveaboardness for
weekends/week at a time are my chief concerns, I guess (two boys seven
and eight). Like, I think i want to get an inverter and a better heater
than it has (solid fuel).

I looked for all the boats recommended here by Trent and can find none
of them for sale within 500 miles, in my price range. My sailing buddy
specifically told me Newports were a better class of boat, was he
whacked? I am more interested in being able to get my money back out of
the boat in ten years or so when I move up in boats, if I put some elbow
grease and upgrades into it. Pie in the sky dreaming with this boat?

I went and looked at this '68 Newport yesterday and I like the
roominess. It needs some cleaning, the deck needs painting. The Atomic 4
looks clean. Dodger with a few years left on it. I'll check the sails
better during the sea trial/survey. I put down $635 and made an offer
($6350), contingent on survey and sea trial, so I can still get out of
it. The nearest boat I found to it so far around here was a Buccaneer
30, and supposedly those have a real bad reputation.

Thanks for any more advice!

Stephen


Hiya,

Well, on the one hand, I generally disagree with Trent. I'm not a fan
of heavy displacement "blue-water" (soi disant) boats, per se. Most of
the boats he mentions are too heavy and slow for my taste.

OTOH, I disagree with your friend about Newports. As I said in my
post, they are the worst-built production boats I've ever run across.
They make Catalina look like Nautor-Swan. If you buy it, definitely
double check that hull/deck joint. Like I also said, the design is by
C&C; so they do sail pretty well.

On the third hand, Buccaneer makes Newport look like Nautor-Swan. I'd
say, please don't buy the Bucaneer under any circumstances.

I crewed foredeck on a Newport 28 racing in the Puget Sound area back
in the early 80s and we did race that thing hard. We never managed to
sink it; so you'd probably do just fine cruising the Puget Sound area
in a Newport 30.

I wouldn't really plan on "getting my money out of it" after upgrades,
which cost a lot but don't do much to increase the "value" of your
boat. It's a nasty cheap boat and will continue to depreciate
significantly, IMHO. But, since you're getting it for a pretty good
price, I'd be willing to admit that you shouldn't lose too much on a
future sale.

I haven't checked prices in your interest range lately. Howzabout a
Ranger or a San Juan? Lots of them around the Puget Sound region.

Good luck,


Hey, thanks alot, again. Another friend of mine has been telling me
about a salvaged San Juan 26 I should look at, so I'll do that. And I'll
check the seam between the hull and the deck on the Newport. Come to
think of it there was a leak below on the rear quarterberth when I
looked at it.

Stephen

This guy doesn't know sheet about boats. Newports are awesome boats.
I own a 68 N30. It is rock solid. Catalina is a SheetBox. the keel
is bolted on. no backing plates, under rigged, on and on . heres a
guy who took his newport to hawaii and won overall on handicap!

http://www.pacificcup.org/98/entries/Wate.html. I've owned a cal 27,
catalina 27 and a newport 30 so far and I would take the newport
anywhere I'd take the other ones.

Oh, by the way, this cork smoker recommends Ranger as a boat. Gary
Mull designed Ranger AND Newport boats

http://www.google.COM/search?hl=en&i...l+newport+sail

http://www.rocketboats.com/about/garymull.html

Talk to anyone whos owned a newport 30, and you will hear the
accolades.

It may not be an S&S, but for the price, you can NOT beat it - and
their fast as hell. Stay away from the bayliner.

In article . com,
wrote:

This guy doesn't know sheet about boats. Newports are awesome boats.
I own a 68 N30. It is rock solid. Catalina is a SheetBox. the keel
is bolted on. no backing plates, under rigged, on and on . heres a
guy who took his newport to hawaii and won overall on handicap!

http://www.pacificcup.org/98/entries/Wate.html. I've owned a cal 27,
catalina 27 and a newport 30 so far and I would take the newport
anywhere I'd take the other ones.

Oh, by the way, this cork smoker recommends Ranger as a boat. Gary
Mull designed Ranger AND Newport boats

http://www.google.COM/search?hl=en&i...l+newport+sail

http://www.rocketboats.com/about/garymull.html

Talk to anyone whos owned a newport 30, and you will hear the
accolades.

It may not be an S&S, but for the price, you can NOT beat it - and
their fast as hell. Stay away from the bayliner.


I don't know the particular boat model, but our boat name was stolen
from our second choice, a Newport 27 flush deck (Mk II?). Sweet looking
boat, but what I've heard since (10-12 years) convinced me that we'd
made the right decision. Not quite bullet proof. Quite fast, but
relatively lightly built. As I recall, the hull-deck joint of that model
is a weak point.

We also have a bolt-on keel, with a schedule of bolts about 50% stronger
than naval architects' current recommendations. [A Cal or Cat 27's bolts
are anemic compared to ours.] After 30+ years worth of banging about the
Chesapeake (real obviously from our purchase survey, not to mention my
decade's miscalculations), we're still not getting a leak from the keel
bolts despite a few obvious dings in the cast iron keel. I'm afraid to
disturb them to check their health.

Every boat is a compromise. And most everyone has a loyalty to "their
boat", because she performed to their needs more than adequately.

I wouldn't personally depend on a Hunter, but a whole lot of people
swear by them because they did the expected job quite well.

Truth be told, we still love our old MacGregor 21's capabilities and I
don't know a more lightly built boat. Yeah, we had to replace too much
when a "real" sailboat sideswiped her at her mooring, but the repairs
were cheap and she still did what we wanted afterwards.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

wrote:
This guy doesn't know sheet about boats. Newports are awesome boats.
I own a 68 N30. It is rock solid. Catalina is a SheetBox. the keel
is bolted on. no backing plates, under rigged, on and on .
I've owned a cal 27,
catalina 27 and a newport 30 so far and I would take the newport
anywhere I'd take the other ones.
Oh, by the way, this cork smoker recommends Ranger as a boat. Gary
Mull designed Ranger AND Newport boats
Talk to anyone whos owned a newport 30, and you will hear the
accolades.
It may not be an S&S, but for the price, you can NOT beat it - and
their fast as hell. Stay away from the bayliner.

Hmmmn, it looks like *I'm* the cork-smoker who doesn't know ****; so I
guess I'd better reply, even though this is a revival of a year-old
thread.

I believe I said that the Newport line are nice-sailing boats, whether
designed by C&C or Gary Mull, who happens to be one of my favorite
designers. That's exactly why I recommended the Ranger to the OP,
because it's a Mull design but with much (MUCH!) better construction
quality than Newport. If you disagree with me about Newport
construction, well, then, I leave the final decision up to each reader.
Go down to your local marina and look at a Newport. IMO, the poor
quality will be apparent to even the most casual observer.
Frank (off to smoke some more cork)

Stephen Trapani wrote...
Thanks to all for your replies. In case anyone is still interested in
helping further let me add: If all goes well, I'll never get out of
Puget Sound with the boat I get, so perhaps seaworthiness is not the
hugest concern? Crusing comfort for my family and liveaboardness for
weekends/week at a time are my chief concerns, I guess (two boys seven
and eight). Like, I think i want to get an inverter and a better heater
than it has (solid fuel).

I looked for all the boats recommended here by Trent and can find none
of them for sale within 500 miles, in my price range. My sailing buddy
specifically told me Newports were a better class of boat, was he
whacked? I am more interested in being able to get my money back out of
the boat in ten years or so when I move up in boats, if I put some elbow
grease and upgrades into it. Pie in the sky dreaming with this boat?

I went and looked at this '68 Newport yesterday and I like the
roominess. It needs some cleaning, the deck needs painting. The Atomic 4
looks clean. Dodger with a few years left on it. I'll check the sails
better during the sea trial/survey. I put down $635 and made an offer
($6350), contingent on survey and sea trial, so I can still get out of
it. The nearest boat I found to it so far around here was a Buccaneer
30, and supposedly those have a real bad reputation.

Thanks for any more advice!

Stephen

Hiya,

Well, on the one hand, I generally disagree with Trent. I'm not a fan
of heavy displacement "blue-water" (soi disant) boats, per se. Most of
the boats he mentions are too heavy and slow for my taste.

OTOH, I disagree with your friend about Newports. As I said in my
post, they are the worst-built production boats I've ever run across.
They make Catalina look like Nautor-Swan. If you buy it, definitely
double check that hull/deck joint. Like I also said, the design is by
C&C; so they do sail pretty well.

On the third hand, Buccaneer makes Newport look like Nautor-Swan. I'd
say, please don't buy the Bucaneer under any circumstances.

I crewed foredeck on a Newport 28 racing in the Puget Sound area back
in the early 80s and we did race that thing hard. We never managed to
sink it; so you'd probably do just fine cruising the Puget Sound area
in a Newport 30.

I wouldn't really plan on "getting my money out of it" after upgrades,
which cost a lot but don't do much to increase the "value" of your
boat. It's a nasty cheap boat and will continue to depreciate
significantly, IMHO. But, since you're getting it for a pretty good
price, I'd be willing to admit that you shouldn't lose too much on a
future sale.

I haven't checked prices in your interest range lately. Howzabout a
Ranger or a San Juan? Lots of them around the Puget Sound region.

Good luck,

Frank

Stephen Trapani wrote:

a Buccaneer

Good lord! Don't touch one of those even if they pay you to take it.

Stephen Trapani wrote:

a Buccaneer

Good lord! Don't touch one of those even if they pay you to take it.

Thanks to all for your replies. In case anyone is still interested in
helping further let me add: If all goes well, I'll never get out of
Puget Sound with the boat I get, so perhaps seaworthiness is not the
hugest concern? Crusing comfort for my family and liveaboardness for
weekends/week at a time are my chief concerns, I guess (two boys seven
and eight). Like, I think i want to get an inverter and a better heater
than it has (solid fuel).

I looked for all the boats recommended here by Trent and can find none
of them for sale within 500 miles, in my price range. My sailing buddy
specifically told me Newports were a better class of boat, was he
whacked? I am more interested in being able to get my money back out of
the boat in ten years or so when I move up in boats, if I put some elbow
grease and upgrades into it. Pie in the sky dreaming with this boat?

I went and looked at this '68 Newport yesterday and I like the
roominess. It needs some cleaning, the deck needs painting. The Atomic 4
looks clean. Dodger with a few years left on it. I'll check the sails
better during the sea trial/survey. I put down $635 and made an offer
($6350), contingent on survey and sea trial, so I can still get out of
it. The nearest boat I found to it so far around here was a Buccaneer
30, and supposedly those have a real bad reputation.

Thanks for any more advice!

Stephen

Trent D. Sanders wrote:
Steve,

Just as a suggestion,,,,,,,, look for a boat built before 1972 or so.
Back then they were much more heavily built and didn't use the "EPA"
approved resins. The old resins were much stronger. Also, because
fiberglass was new to the industry they weren't sure of how strong it
would be. So they tended to overbuild their boats. As a result the
early boats are generally "hell for stout".

There's lots of these older boats around, and they can be had for less
than the $7,000 asked for the Newport. In the 26' to 30' range
there's the Pearsons [26' Ariel & 32' Vanguard], Columbia 29',
Islander 29' & 32', Rawson 30', Alberg 30', etc. All of these boats
are far superior to the Newport. And far safer in a seaway.

As an example, my Islander 29' has been around the world once,
including a Cape Horn passage. I paid $4,500 for it [no, it's not for
sale!].

Trent
S/V Cimba


Stephen Trapani wrote in message ...

Hi, sorry to just drop in, but I think I can get a 1968 Newport 30' for
under $7000. I grew up sailing my dad's Blanchard 33' in Kaneohe Bay,
and between the HI islands, so I can sail, probably rusty, but anyway,
assuming I get a survey and nothing terrible is wrong, the Atomic 4 is
recently rebuilt, tiller, Autohelm, decent electronics, shore power, a
few other things, any particular big reason I shouldn't buy it? And, oh
yeah, I don't have much more than that to spend. What do you think the
boat will be worth in ten years? Any guesses?

Thanks,

Stephen