I got a blurred copy of a check that I had cashed at Wachovia, my bank,
for 140.31 back yesterday. The stamp on it said CANNOT IDENTIFY ACCOUNT
from Bank of America. The Wachovia clerk in some boiler room had put an
account number 999999999999 across the bottom because she couldn't read
the blurry numbers on the digital image of the check which goes straight
into the shredder as soon as it's scanned because my politicians who
work for the bankers let them have something called "Check 21" to save
the bankers from paying someone to return checks to their proper place
for the awful fees they charge. When I was informed, back a few years
ago, I said this was an awful idea and was going to cause untold grief.
Now, it's my turn to feel it.

I took the copy of the check they told me was a legal copy to Bank of
America to cash the "legal copy". BOLDLY across the top of the picture
of the check, it says the name, address, phone number of the 130-year-
old black Baptist church who wrote me the check. I asked them to LOOK
UP the name of the church and cash it because you can't read the acct
number. Of course, this requires INTERROGATION of our damned computer
system, which would take several microseconds, so we couldn't do that
because we can't read the check number on the **** poor copy Wachovia
made.

Now, I'm going to have to go back to the church and get ANOTHER check
for them to screw up...MAKE YOUR OWN COPIES OF EVERY CHECK YOU CASH OR
DEPOSIT BECAUSE CHECK 21 WILL SCREW YOU GOOD......I will from now
on....dammit.

---------------------------------------------------------------

I went to retrieve my mail from my PO Box at the main distribution
center post office, as I have since the 1st day it was open many years
ago. My lock had been changed, AFTER I HAD ALREADY PAID MY BOX RENTAL
THE DAY THE RENTAL NOTICE CAME IN THE BOX to one of the clerks out front
DIRECTLY. I'm gonna have his sorry black ass this morning on his boss'
carpet, right after breakfast. I hope they didn't send any of my
important mail back as "UNDELIVERABLE" or there will be WAR which may
destroy the entire facility.

---------------------------------------------------------------

This morning, searching for the tiny little register tape receipt for
the damned PO Box, I stumbled upon a car tax payment of $11.43 that had
fallen in between the cracks of the car seat that was due 3/31/08 'OR
ELSE'. That will cost me $55 in penalty fees from the highway
department as soon as some bureaucrat sees I'm 4 days late.

---------------------------------------------------------------

It's foggy as hell in Charleston, this morning, making all this misery
that more miserable. Thoughts of suicide have come to mind during
periods of intense rage while beating on inanimate objects.

I had to tell someone. Thank you for listening......(c;

Why do we let "them" do this to us??

On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 12:08:18 +0000, Larry wrote:

Heartbreaking tales of woe snipped.

I had to tell someone. Thank you for listening......(c;

Why do we let "them" do this to us??

I spilled a cup of coffee. Got all over my newspaper.
Stupid cup.
Thanks for listening (-:

--Vic

Larry,
Your observations should lead you to the conclusion that check technology no
longer functions as designed or intended. Therefore your action plan should
be to use other methods. I haven't issued nor received a check in 8 years.
Not always is progress forward. Think PayPal, Credit Cards and Cash.
Steve


"Larry" wrote in message
...
I got a blurred copy of a check that I had cashed at Wachovia, my bank,
for 140.31 back yesterday. The stamp on it said CANNOT IDENTIFY ACCOUNT
from Bank of America. The Wachovia clerk in some boiler room had put an
account number 999999999999 across the bottom because she couldn't read
the blurry numbers on the digital image of the check which goes straight
into the shredder as soon as it's scanned because my politicians who
work for the bankers let them have something called "Check 21" to save
the bankers from paying someone to return checks to their proper place
for the awful fees they charge. When I was informed, back a few years
ago, I said this was an awful idea and was going to cause untold grief.
Now, it's my turn to feel it.

I took the copy of the check they told me was a legal copy to Bank of
America to cash the "legal copy". BOLDLY across the top of the picture
of the check, it says the name, address, phone number of the 130-year-
old black Baptist church who wrote me the check. I asked them to LOOK
UP the name of the church and cash it because you can't read the acct
number. Of course, this requires INTERROGATION of our damned computer
system, which would take several microseconds, so we couldn't do that
because we can't read the check number on the **** poor copy Wachovia
made.

Now, I'm going to have to go back to the church and get ANOTHER check
for them to screw up...MAKE YOUR OWN COPIES OF EVERY CHECK YOU CASH OR
DEPOSIT BECAUSE CHECK 21 WILL SCREW YOU GOOD......I will from now
on....dammit.

---------------------------------------------------------------

I went to retrieve my mail from my PO Box at the main distribution
center post office, as I have since the 1st day it was open many years
ago. My lock had been changed, AFTER I HAD ALREADY PAID MY BOX RENTAL
THE DAY THE RENTAL NOTICE CAME IN THE BOX to one of the clerks out front
DIRECTLY. I'm gonna have his sorry black ass this morning on his boss'
carpet, right after breakfast. I hope they didn't send any of my
important mail back as "UNDELIVERABLE" or there will be WAR which may
destroy the entire facility.

---------------------------------------------------------------

This morning, searching for the tiny little register tape receipt for
the damned PO Box, I stumbled upon a car tax payment of $11.43 that had
fallen in between the cracks of the car seat that was due 3/31/08 'OR
ELSE'. That will cost me $55 in penalty fees from the highway
department as soon as some bureaucrat sees I'm 4 days late.

---------------------------------------------------------------

It's foggy as hell in Charleston, this morning, making all this misery
that more miserable. Thoughts of suicide have come to mind during
periods of intense rage while beating on inanimate objects.

I had to tell someone. Thank you for listening......(c;

Why do we let "them" do this to us??

"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message
...
Larry,
Your observations should lead you to the conclusion that check technology
no longer functions as designed or intended. Therefore your action plan
should be to use other methods. I haven't issued nor received a check in 8
years. Not always is progress forward. Think PayPal, Credit Cards and
Cash.
Steve

None of those methods is without problems.
:-
PayPal is very flaky. After some satisfactory experiences my wife bought
something on e-bay where Pay Pal was specified by the seller. When the time
came to pay PP said her card was invalid. Tried another, same result. tried
a third, same result. All those cards were perfectly good.
This was awkward because if you do not pay on time you get negative feedback
on PP. Luckily she had 100% positive feedback on record so the seller agreed
to accept a personal cheque. She terminated her PP account and now will not
buy anything where PP is specified.

Credit cards. Well, see the above. At any time machines can and do refuse to
accept your card and you can be left away from home with no easy way to pay
for things or get cash. Also there are some really stupid and unforeseeable
regulations applicable to cards. For example, I have a bank account in USA
with dollars in it. I live in Norway but I have a bank card issued in USA by
that bank. It works here in Norway in cash machines (not that it makes much
sense to convert dollars back into kroners!) and in other places but
Continental Airlines in Oslo will not accept it for the cost of a flight to
USA because my billing address is outside USA! So do not rely on cards.

Cash. Well cash is of course Ok if you are face to face with the other party
but you would be pretty stupid to send it by mail. I have done so but only
for very small amounts which involve no great loss if it goes astray..

Online transfer you did not mention. This is the best way to go and you are
protected if you print out a record of your transaction. .

"Edgar" wrote in message
...

"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message
...
Larry,
Your observations should lead you to the conclusion that check technology
no longer functions as designed or intended. Therefore your action plan
should be to use other methods. I haven't issued nor received a check in
8 years. Not always is progress forward. Think PayPal, Credit Cards and
Cash.
Steve

None of those methods is without problems.
:-
PayPal is very flaky. After some satisfactory experiences my wife bought
something on e-bay where Pay Pal was specified by the seller. When the
time came to pay PP said her card was invalid. Tried another, same result.
tried a third, same result. All those cards were perfectly good.
This was awkward because if you do not pay on time you get negative
feedback on PP. Luckily she had 100% positive feedback on record so the
seller agreed to accept a personal cheque. She terminated her PP account
and now will not buy anything where PP is specified.

Credit cards. Well, see the above. At any time machines can and do refuse
to accept your card and you can be left away from home with no easy way to
pay for things or get cash. Also there are some really stupid and
unforeseeable regulations applicable to cards. For example, I have a bank
account in USA with dollars in it. I live in Norway but I have a bank card
issued in USA by that bank. It works here in Norway in cash machines (not
that it makes much sense to convert dollars back into kroners!) and in
other places but Continental Airlines in Oslo will not accept it for the
cost of a flight to USA because my billing address is outside USA! So do
not rely on cards.

Cash. Well cash is of course Ok if you are face to face with the other
party but you would be pretty stupid to send it by mail. I have done so
but only for very small amounts which involve no great loss if it goes
astray..

Online transfer you did not mention. This is the best way to go and you
are protected if you print out a record of your transaction. .



All methods have their pluses and minuses. Checks are still good for
situations when the receiver charges for CC transactions. Most typically,
that's auto registration or a local/state tax agency. Checks can be forged,
and I had this happen to me maybe 10 years ago. The bank caught it, and all
I had to do was change account numbers. I use online banking extensively,
even for services such as gardening or tree-trimming. As you probably know,
if the bank can't make a direct transfer of funds, they issue a paper check.
CCs have their own problems, mainly people abusing them. Debit cards have
problems of fewer protections in case of fraud, and I don't like the idea of
money coming directly out of my account. I mostly use it to get cash from an
ATM. PayPal has its good points, but has been flakey from time to time. They
attempted to charge me for a fraudulent transaction on an approved PP
account, but I fought it and they relented. You have to read the rules and
review all "updates" to the rules to be sure. Certainly for ebay and many
other transactions online, it's what's done. Cash is cash, but I like a
record of my transactions, which is a lot easier if I pay via one or more of
the other methods. I carry cash just in case.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 5 Apr 2008 10:17:17 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

Debit cards have
problems of fewer protections in case of fraud, and I don't like the idea
of
money coming directly out of my account. I mostly use it to get cash from
an
ATM.

Banks don't like to advertise the fact, but you can get an ATM card that
isn't a debit card. I recently did, just for the reasons you cite.

PayPal has its good points, but has been flakey from time to time. They
attempted to charge me for a fraudulent transaction on an approved PP
account, but I fought it and they relented. You have to read the rules and
review all "updates" to the rules to be sure.

The trick here is to use AMEX with Paypal. Even if Paypal says they can't
reverse a charge, AMEX will.


Interesting... I'll check out both of those!

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote
Banks don't like to advertise the fact, but you can get an ATM card that
isn't a debit card. I recently did, just for the reasons you cite.


Depending on your relationship with your bank, you can get a lot of
services that aren't on the list.

PayPal has its good points, but has been flakey from time to time.

IMHO PayPal is not worth my time. It may be a great service for some
but I don't use it, don't miss it. Part of keeping life simple.

"Dave" wrote
The trick here is to use AMEX with Paypal. Even if Paypal says they can't
reverse a charge, AMEX will.

Several credit companies have the attitude that the cardholder is
their customer and will back you in purchase disputes. I'm not
surprised that AMEX has this attitude, they are a good company and
I've used a variety of their services for years.

The last time I had a credit card company refuse to issue me a credit
for returned merchandise was the last time I cut up a credit card and
told them "Tough luck." However, you should read the fine print on
your checking and/or savings account because many banks will honor
payment requests from credit companies without your authorization. If
you use a credit card issued by the bank holding your account(s), then
you have no option in such a dispute.

"Capt. JG" wrote:
Interesting... I'll check out both of those!


Another thing to check out is single-use credit card numbers. Utterly
scam proof, since any further charges on that "credit account" are
automatically bounced.

DSK

On Sat, 5 Apr 2008 19:06:44 +0200, "Edgar"
wrote:

Credit cards. Well, see the above. At any time machines can and do refuse to
accept your card and you can be left away from home with no easy way to pay
for things or get cash.

It is best to travel with multiple cards issued by different
organizations.

I've never had an issue with PayPal but I've heard of other people
who have. When it does work it is very handy.

Edgar,
I did not mention this because "Online Transfer /Direct Debit" is either not
available or very expensive in the US and like other responders, all methods
can have their problems, I have had many more problems with Online Direct
Debit than I have with PP. Furthermore, Direct Debit transactions that
involve a currency conversion is MUCH more expensive than a CC transaction.
Steve

"Edgar" wrote in message
...

"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message
...
Larry,
Your observations should lead you to the conclusion that check technology
no longer functions as designed or intended. Therefore your action plan
should be to use other methods. I haven't issued nor received a check in
8 years. Not always is progress forward. Think PayPal, Credit Cards and
Cash.
Steve

None of those methods is without problems.
:-
PayPal is very flaky. After some satisfactory experiences my wife bought
something on e-bay where Pay Pal was specified by the seller. When the
time came to pay PP said her card was invalid. Tried another, same result.
tried a third, same result. All those cards were perfectly good.
This was awkward because if you do not pay on time you get negative
feedback on PP. Luckily she had 100% positive feedback on record so the
seller agreed to accept a personal cheque. She terminated her PP account
and now will not buy anything where PP is specified.

Credit cards. Well, see the above. At any time machines can and do refuse
to accept your card and you can be left away from home with no easy way to
pay for things or get cash. Also there are some really stupid and
unforeseeable regulations applicable to cards. For example, I have a bank
account in USA with dollars in it. I live in Norway but I have a bank card
issued in USA by that bank. It works here in Norway in cash machines (not
that it makes much sense to convert dollars back into kroners!) and in
other places but Continental Airlines in Oslo will not accept it for the
cost of a flight to USA because my billing address is outside USA! So do
not rely on cards.

Cash. Well cash is of course Ok if you are face to face with the other
party but you would be pretty stupid to send it by mail. I have done so
but only for very small amounts which involve no great loss if it goes
astray..

Online transfer you did not mention. This is the best way to go and you
are protected if you print out a record of your transaction. .

"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message
...
Edgar,
I did not mention this because "Online Transfer /Direct Debit" is either
not available or very expensive in the US and like other responders, all
methods can have their problems, I have had many more problems with Online
Direct Debit than I have with PP. Furthermore, Direct Debit transactions
that involve a currency conversion is MUCH more expensive than a CC
transaction.
Steve

Online transfer is simple and easy where I live. But this is not Direct
Debit as I understand it
DD as I know it is where you give someone to whom you make regular payments
for subscriptions etc.authority to claim what they consider is due to them
directly from your account without prior reference to you.
I agree with your comment about the cost of currency conversion.
But even online transfer has its snags. When you make a transfer the money
disappears from your account instantly and yet it takes 4 days to reappear
in the account of your supplier so in the meantime it is earning interest
for the bank. They could, if they wanted to, make the transfer just as
quickly as they made the debit .
One problem now even with banks and other such institutions in UK is that if
you ring up with a query you often find yourself talking to a call centre
that has been relocated to India. Many of them think they are talking
English but are quite incomprehensible on the phone. My wife has just
received an apology and £30 compensation from her UK bank because of all the
time she had to spend on the phone trying to get people in India to sort out
a problem that the bank itself had caused in UK!