I am not saying that the young man involved might have done better, but
I think the group should know what the situation is really like.

I am never without a knife (except on an airplane recently), and have
had one all my life. It is an essential working tool for a waterman.

But, did you ever try to get your knife free to do something after you
were in the water? It sure did not go the way I had thought it might.
If you have grabbed up your oilskins (foulies for some) and left the
knife inside, kiss off getting it free after you hit the water. Even
still, be it a folding knife in a pocket (requires two free hands) or a
sheathknife at your hip, getting it out to do what you need after you
are in the water is not something done without practice. If the blade
is not at a lanyard, it will probably be lost.

Please think about it.

Matt Colie A.Sloop "Bonne Ide'e"
Lifelong Waterman, Licnesed Mariner and Congenital Sailor

Steve wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message
...

A sailor should always have his 'rigging knife' handy and attached to him

by

a lanyard.
You never know when you have to cut something loose.
That's a real tragady.



I agree regarding the knife. A good crewman should never report on board
without a good sharp knife. And a good skipper should provide a knife to any
crew member who doesn't have one.. ( keep several of the SS rigger knives I
get at WM on sale for about $8-9 )

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:17:42 -0500, Matt Colie
wrote:

I am not saying that the young man involved might have done better, but
I think the group should know what the situation is really like.

I am never without a knife (except on an airplane recently), and have
had one all my life. It is an essential working tool for a waterman.

But, did you ever try to get your knife free to do something after you
were in the water? It sure did not go the way I had thought it might.
If you have grabbed up your oilskins (foulies for some) and left the
knife inside, kiss off getting it free after you hit the water. Even
still, be it a folding knife in a pocket (requires two free hands) or a
sheathknife at your hip, getting it out to do what you need after you
are in the water is not something done without practice. If the blade
is not at a lanyard, it will probably be lost.

Please think about it.

I switch my knife to my harness when I wear one, particularly when
solo sailing. Otherwise it's on my belt. I snap-hook a two-foot or so
lanyard to the D-ring, or to my belt buckle. Keeps everything on the
front.

I suppose a good way to secure a longer bit of lanyard would be the
old "thin rubber band" method used to break out genoas lashed to the
deck...a simple hoist is enough to break the bands, and yet secures
the sail to the deck in most winds. Yes, I still single-hand with
hank-ons! Anyway, you could flake the lanyard into six-inch loops and
tie it with a thin rubber band and slip it into a PFD vest pocket. One
pull free of the scabbard frees the lanyard, but there's little chance
of, say five feet of lanyard hooking on your neck or some other
inconvenient place prior to use.

R.

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:56:12 -0500, rhys wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:17:42 -0500, Matt Colie
wrote:

I am not saying that the young man involved might have done better, but
I think the group should know what the situation is really like.

I am never without a knife (except on an airplane recently), and have
had one all my life. It is an essential working tool for a waterman.

I have both a multi-tool and a rigging knife.

This thread got me to thinking about tethers.

I remember Practical Sailor testing both knives and tethers by
recording how quickly a tether could slashed.

Also, I believe that when one of tall ships went down a crew member
could not get free of his tether and was dragged down.

Since then, snap shackles seem to be the favoured attachment method at
the harness.

Does anyone have any experience with or knowledge of the efficacy of
the snap shackles? Can they be released under load?

From my own experience I will only use Gibb or Wichard clips for
attaching to u bolts or jacklines. I had a tether come off while I
was on a foredeck at night. It managed to attach itself to the jib
sheet.

Jack

__________________________________________________
Jack Dale
Swiftsure Sailing Academy
Director/ISPA and CYA Instructor
http://www.swiftsuresailing.com
Phone: 1 (877) 470-SAIL (toll free)
__________________________________________________

"Jack Dale" wrote in message
...
[ about tethers and quick-release ]
Does anyone have any experience with or knowledge of the efficacy of
the snap shackles? Can they be released under load?

From my own experience I will only use Gibb or Wichard clips for
attaching to u bolts or jacklines. I had a tether come off while I
was on a foredeck at night. It managed to attach itself to the jib
sheet.

Whenever VALIS sails beyond the Golden Gate Bridge, everyone puts on a
tether (and sometimes in the bay, if conditions warrant). The ones I have
on board use a "Wichard Safety Hook" at the boat end, and a quick-release
snap shackle at the harness end. The quick-release shackle has a nice
lanyard on the release pin and it works smoothly. I have never had one of
these (or the Wichard hooks) open accidentally. I used to have some tethers
with a caribeener-style snap hook for the boat end, and it was scary how
easily these would accidentally release when hooked onto a pad-eye.

-Paul
s/v VALIS

The quick-release shackle has a nice
lanyard on the release pin and it works smoothly. I have never had one of
these ... open accidentally.

maybe *you* haven't, but most of the sailing world has.

snap shackles are thoroughly considered to be no-no's on tethers because they
so often come open when the lanyard gets snagged on something.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
The quick-release shackle has a nice
lanyard on the release pin and it works smoothly. I have never had one
of
these ... open accidentally.

maybe *you* haven't, but most of the sailing world has.

snap shackles are thoroughly considered to be no-no's on tethers because
they
so often come open when the lanyard gets snagged on something.

Same thing with the aforementioned snap-carabiners. I'm a (not very
accomplished) rock climber of sorts, and a snap gate crab is NEVER used as a
primary means of hooking into a line, and the use of a locking (screw gate)
crab is frowned on as well- knots are the only safe way, in rock climbing.
Of course, it's a bit of a different situation; if the rock sinks you've had
it anyway

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 12:19:27 -0600, "Wendy"
wrote (with possible editing):

Same thing with the aforementioned snap-carabiners. I'm a (not very
accomplished) rock climber of sorts, and a snap gate crab is NEVER used as a
primary means of hooking into a line, and the use of a locking (screw gate)
crab is frowned on as well- knots are the only safe way, in rock climbing.
Of course, it's a bit of a different situation; if the rock sinks you've had
it anyway

No flame intended, Wendy, but in years of rock climbing and tower
work, I have never had a locking carabiner open by mistake. Snap gate
biners are also commonly used, but in pairs with the gates on opposite
sides.
--

Larry
Email to rapp at lmr dot com

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 12:19:27 -0600, "Wendy"
wrote (with possible editing):

Same thing with the aforementioned snap-carabiners. I'm a (not very
accomplished) rock climber of sorts, and a snap gate crab is NEVER used as a
primary means of hooking into a line, and the use of a locking (screw gate)
crab is frowned on as well- knots are the only safe way, in rock climbing.
Of course, it's a bit of a different situation; if the rock sinks you've had
it anyway

No flame intended, Wendy, but in years of rock climbing and tower
work, I have never had a locking carabiner open by mistake. Snap gate
biners are also commonly used, but in pairs with the gates on opposite
sides.
--

Larry
Email to rapp at lmr dot com

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
The quick-release shackle has a nice
lanyard on the release pin and it works smoothly. I have never had one
of
these ... open accidentally.

maybe *you* haven't, but most of the sailing world has.

snap shackles are thoroughly considered to be no-no's on tethers because
they
so often come open when the lanyard gets snagged on something.

I'm not saying it can't happen -- it just hasn't happened to me or my crew
during many thousands of miles of blue-water and coastal sailing. The short
release lanyard is close to the chest and not easily snagged. Of course it
*could* release accidentally, but I feel that the ability to manually
quick-release the tether more than compensates for the slight (as I see it)
risk of accidental release. If anyone know of a better solution, I would
love to hear of it.

I thoroughly agree that snap shakles at the boat-end of the tether are
unacceptable.

-Paul
s/v VALIS

"Paul" wrote in message ...
"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
The quick-release shackle has a nice
lanyard on the release pin and it works smoothly. I have never had one
of
these ... open accidentally.

maybe *you* haven't, but most of the sailing world has.

snap shackles are thoroughly considered to be no-no's on tethers because
they
so often come open when the lanyard gets snagged on something.

I'm not saying it can't happen -- it just hasn't happened to me or my crew
during many thousands of miles of blue-water and coastal sailing. The short
release lanyard is close to the chest and not easily snagged. Of course it
*could* release accidentally, but I feel that the ability to manually
quick-release the tether more than compensates for the slight (as I see it)
risk of accidental release. If anyone know of a better solution, I would
love to hear of it.

I thoroughly agree that snap shakles at the boat-end of the tether are
unacceptable.

-Paul
s/v VALIS
I fully agree with Paul. In over 10 000 miles oif offshore sailing, my
Lewmar bronze snapshackle has never opened accidentally. As a matter
of fact, it tales a bit of effort to open it deliberately. The
"lanyard" (actually a shor "tail") would find it very difficult to
snag anywhere.
john