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engsol
 
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Default Do I need a grapple?

On 6 Feb 2004 19:02:08 -0800, (john s.) wrote:

engsol wrote in message . ..
This has been likely asked before.

I'll be retiring this spring, and buying a sailboat, 30-32 feet. I have limited experience,
mainly two J-World courses, plus ASA through Advanced Coastal Cruising,
plus a two week trip off the Calif coast, plus a bit of racing on a Santana 20.

In my daydreaming, I have most things figured out in the locale where I plan
to sail (San Juan and Gulf Islands), except for this....

I'm approaching a slip with a cross-wind blowing me off the dock, and into another boat
sharing the slip. So what do I do? Being single-handed and all. One thought occurs
to me...toss a grapple and snag the dock. But this raises more questions....will I need
to use a winch? How do I route the line? Do they even make grapples, or will I
have to make my own?

Is this idea even worth it? Last year, we (class of 4 students on a 37 foot J-Boat)
tried to dock on the lee side of a dock in 35+ knots. It took all hands ( 4 men and a teen)
on the dock waiting to catch lines to snug us up, and it was a bit of effort.
I was amazed at how much force the wind exerted on the boat. It was obvious that
to dock a boat that size, in those conditions, a single-hander would have to be
lucky as well as good.

In case you're wondering why the concern...I'm too old to jump a 4 or 5 foot gap
between the boat and dock, and know I'll need to sail smart.

Thanks for any advice/imputs.
Norm


Norm,I´ve been in that situation twice singlehanding on my 29 ft
Columbia 8.7. What I always do when entering a marina with the wind
blowing crosswise to the boats is to put my fendrs on the leeward side
of the boat. When I see a free pomoon that is going to be on the
windward side, I approach it as close as I can and then let the boat
drift onto the other boat which is to leward. I then tie my boat
temporarily to it, the then throw the bow and stern lines forward onto
the "end ponoon" and walk with them to the windward pontoo where is
make them fast to the cleats. Going back to my boat, I use the
windward winch to pull my boat to windward after having progressively
slackened the temporary lines holding me to the leeward boat so that
at no time is there a risk of the two hulls making contact. When the
boat is about 2 feet off the windward pontoon, I stop and transfer the
fenders to the windward side. May be a slow process but when you are
in a strange marina, always proceed SLOW...
john


John,
Thanks for the input. I like it. Your method has the advantage of not
having to do something in haste, and possibly foobar'ing the whole process.
As aother poster mentioned though, the boat serving as a big fender
might object, and I'm there are some owners who will. But, by and large,
what I've seen in the San Juans is that when stuff happens, and one
boat is drifting down on another, the "target" boat just gets out some
more fenders, and prepares for contact. No evidence of hard feelings,
maybe because they'v been in that position themselves.
Norm
  #22   Report Post  
engsol
 
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Default Do I need a grapple?

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 01:05:12 -0500, Rodney Myrvaagnes wrote:

On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:09:54 -0800, engsol
wrote:

snip
I'm approaching a slip with a cross-wind blowing me off the dock, and into another boat
sharing the slip. So what do I do? Being single-handed and all. One thought occurs
to me...toss a grapple and snag the dock. But this raises more questions....will I need
to use a winch? How do I route the line? Do they even make grapples, or will I
have to make my own?

snip
My suggestions:

1. Put fenders out on both sides. If you do miss you don't damage your
neighbor's boat, or your own..

I think that's an excellant idea.

2. Learn to bring the boat to a stop next to fixed objects where a
mistake doesn't matter, like next to a mooring ball. Get a feel for
how much wind you can do this in.

Actually, I'm pretty good at this. (crossed fingers)

3. When you string your dock lines, tie their ends together so when
you step off you have both of them. Loop one of them around its cleat
and move smartly to the other end and cleat that. Then go back and
cleat the first one properly.

Many of the docks in the smaller San Juan ports don't have cleats.
What is *very* common is a "cleat rail" (my term) consisting of a 4 x 4 raised
by 4 x 4 blocks spaced every 8 to 10 feet. This requires passing a
line through a 4 inch "gap", which is a real pain. Otherwise your method
would work fine.

Thanks for the input.
Norm
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engsol
 
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Default Do I need a grapple?

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 01:05:12 -0500, Rodney Myrvaagnes wrote:

On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:09:54 -0800, engsol
wrote:

snip
I'm approaching a slip with a cross-wind blowing me off the dock, and into another boat
sharing the slip. So what do I do? Being single-handed and all. One thought occurs
to me...toss a grapple and snag the dock. But this raises more questions....will I need
to use a winch? How do I route the line? Do they even make grapples, or will I
have to make my own?

snip
My suggestions:

1. Put fenders out on both sides. If you do miss you don't damage your
neighbor's boat, or your own..

I think that's an excellant idea.

2. Learn to bring the boat to a stop next to fixed objects where a
mistake doesn't matter, like next to a mooring ball. Get a feel for
how much wind you can do this in.

Actually, I'm pretty good at this. (crossed fingers)

3. When you string your dock lines, tie their ends together so when
you step off you have both of them. Loop one of them around its cleat
and move smartly to the other end and cleat that. Then go back and
cleat the first one properly.

Many of the docks in the smaller San Juan ports don't have cleats.
What is *very* common is a "cleat rail" (my term) consisting of a 4 x 4 raised
by 4 x 4 blocks spaced every 8 to 10 feet. This requires passing a
line through a 4 inch "gap", which is a real pain. Otherwise your method
would work fine.

Thanks for the input.
Norm
  #24   Report Post  
engsol
 
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Default Do I need a grapple?

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 06:27:42 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

In article ,
engsol wrote:

In my daydreaming, I have most things figured out in the locale where I plan
to sail (San Juan and Gulf Islands), except for this....

I'm approaching a slip with a cross-wind blowing me off the dock, and into
another boat
sharing the slip. So what do I do?


At foreign docks, a line from that same winch to a dock cleat -- and
back to the winch if I don't have much time -- works well.

As I mentioned in another reply, the area I plan to sail in uses
4 x 4 rails rather than proper cleats. That's why the idea of a grapple....
something I can deploy from the boat.

If the conditions warrant, the cleat at the shrouds will work better,
but I haven't needed that yet on this boat.

Good advice. I plan to spend a bit of time learning where the
"balance" point is on my boat...once I buy her.

Personally, the toughest docking is against a current. THAT can be
interesting.

LOL...well, I'd argue that "interesting" might be having the bow blow
off and leaving one with a 37 foot boat at right angles to, and between,
two finger docks separated by maybe 40 feet, and having a bit of
speed up. I've mentally replayed that one many times. My only defense
is that the instructor dictated the departure plan, but since I was on
the helm, the fault was mine.

Thanks...
Norm
  #25   Report Post  
engsol
 
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Default Do I need a grapple?

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 06:27:42 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

In article ,
engsol wrote:

In my daydreaming, I have most things figured out in the locale where I plan
to sail (San Juan and Gulf Islands), except for this....

I'm approaching a slip with a cross-wind blowing me off the dock, and into
another boat
sharing the slip. So what do I do?


At foreign docks, a line from that same winch to a dock cleat -- and
back to the winch if I don't have much time -- works well.

As I mentioned in another reply, the area I plan to sail in uses
4 x 4 rails rather than proper cleats. That's why the idea of a grapple....
something I can deploy from the boat.

If the conditions warrant, the cleat at the shrouds will work better,
but I haven't needed that yet on this boat.

Good advice. I plan to spend a bit of time learning where the
"balance" point is on my boat...once I buy her.

Personally, the toughest docking is against a current. THAT can be
interesting.

LOL...well, I'd argue that "interesting" might be having the bow blow
off and leaving one with a 37 foot boat at right angles to, and between,
two finger docks separated by maybe 40 feet, and having a bit of
speed up. I've mentally replayed that one many times. My only defense
is that the instructor dictated the departure plan, but since I was on
the helm, the fault was mine.

Thanks...
Norm


  #26   Report Post  
Chuck Bollinger
 
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Default Do I need a grapple?

I've been reading messages so far and hope I can add something. We actually
have a grapple, and have used it when docking at those piers where the only
tie-up is a 4"x4" wood.

We use it from the midship cleat of our 34' trawler. We bend a turn around the
cleat which can be tightened immediately. The grapple is tossed onto the dock
well behind the rail. In our experience it always has caught against the rail.
After that point it is necessary to keep tension on the grapple, thus the need
to be able to take up the slack quickly.

To picture this, one has to recall that the reason you used the grapple in the
first place was that you were being set off the pier. Therefore, once you have
taken the slack out of the line, that setting force should maintain tension for
you, and since the middle of your boat is tethered, the pointy and blunt ends
aren't going too far. There is time to do things deliberately.

Now if you are too far from the dock to get other lines across, you can try
something cautiously: Use the grapple line as a spring line. You put your boat
in gear and go forward. If you turn toward the dock, the bow will come in. If
you turn away from the dock, the stern will come in. Of the two, we have found
that getting a stern line over and secured is better, because then we can use
*that* as a spring to bring the boat alongside.

We bought the grapple from a store that sells supplies to commercial fishermen.
It's little and light, about 14" long and 8-10" wide. I'd be willing to bet
that they are still available.

The commonest mistake people make when just starting to use a grapple is not to
have enough free line to throw the grapple as far as needed. It's true that the
more 'free' line you have, the bigger the scramble to get the slack out when
you've thrown it. Experience teaches the happy medium.

Another subject: Coming to rest against another vessel. With enough fenders,
there should be no problem and as one reply said, it's pretty common in the San
Juans and Canadian Gulf Islands. But the operative word is "fenders" never,
NEVER "boat hook".

Finally: We are considering an "E-Z Docker". This is a special weighted hook
which is designed to grab and hold onto a 4x4, 2x4, etc. I've seen them at boat
shows, and believe they are superior to the grapple. I found an add in
"Yachting" and their info address is There's a website
about it at http://www.boatshowproducts.com/EZDocker.htm It's pretty pricey,
though - so we're still considering.




  #27   Report Post  
Chuck Bollinger
 
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Default Do I need a grapple?

I've been reading messages so far and hope I can add something. We actually
have a grapple, and have used it when docking at those piers where the only
tie-up is a 4"x4" wood.

We use it from the midship cleat of our 34' trawler. We bend a turn around the
cleat which can be tightened immediately. The grapple is tossed onto the dock
well behind the rail. In our experience it always has caught against the rail.
After that point it is necessary to keep tension on the grapple, thus the need
to be able to take up the slack quickly.

To picture this, one has to recall that the reason you used the grapple in the
first place was that you were being set off the pier. Therefore, once you have
taken the slack out of the line, that setting force should maintain tension for
you, and since the middle of your boat is tethered, the pointy and blunt ends
aren't going too far. There is time to do things deliberately.

Now if you are too far from the dock to get other lines across, you can try
something cautiously: Use the grapple line as a spring line. You put your boat
in gear and go forward. If you turn toward the dock, the bow will come in. If
you turn away from the dock, the stern will come in. Of the two, we have found
that getting a stern line over and secured is better, because then we can use
*that* as a spring to bring the boat alongside.

We bought the grapple from a store that sells supplies to commercial fishermen.
It's little and light, about 14" long and 8-10" wide. I'd be willing to bet
that they are still available.

The commonest mistake people make when just starting to use a grapple is not to
have enough free line to throw the grapple as far as needed. It's true that the
more 'free' line you have, the bigger the scramble to get the slack out when
you've thrown it. Experience teaches the happy medium.

Another subject: Coming to rest against another vessel. With enough fenders,
there should be no problem and as one reply said, it's pretty common in the San
Juans and Canadian Gulf Islands. But the operative word is "fenders" never,
NEVER "boat hook".

Finally: We are considering an "E-Z Docker". This is a special weighted hook
which is designed to grab and hold onto a 4x4, 2x4, etc. I've seen them at boat
shows, and believe they are superior to the grapple. I found an add in
"Yachting" and their info address is There's a website
about it at http://www.boatshowproducts.com/EZDocker.htm It's pretty pricey,
though - so we're still considering.




  #28   Report Post  
Chuck Bollinger
 
Posts: n/a
Default Do I need a grapple?

Dave wrote:

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 20:21:18 GMT, Chuck Bollinger said:


We are considering an "E-Z Docker".



Hmm. Interesting product, but how much confidence can you have in somebody
who doesn't know what a "bollard" is?


Yeah - That got me, too. I wasn't able to download the movie to see what
terminology they used in it. Gotta say, though, I've seen this at a boat show
where the customer is allowed to try it, and it was pretty awesome. Very heavy.
Don't know that I can come up with that much money for it, but we rarely have
cleats in the Pacific NW remoter areas.


  #29   Report Post  
Chuck Bollinger
 
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Default Do I need a grapple?

Dave wrote:

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 20:21:18 GMT, Chuck Bollinger said:


We are considering an "E-Z Docker".



Hmm. Interesting product, but how much confidence can you have in somebody
who doesn't know what a "bollard" is?


Yeah - That got me, too. I wasn't able to download the movie to see what
terminology they used in it. Gotta say, though, I've seen this at a boat show
where the customer is allowed to try it, and it was pretty awesome. Very heavy.
Don't know that I can come up with that much money for it, but we rarely have
cleats in the Pacific NW remoter areas.


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engsol
 
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Default Do I need a grapple?

On 7 Feb 2004 17:12:13 -0600, Dave wrote:

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 20:21:18 GMT, Chuck Bollinger said:

We are considering an "E-Z Docker".


Hmm. Interesting product, but how much confidence can you have in somebody
who doesn't know what a "bollard" is?


I found E-Z Docker on the web. IMHO, a 20 foot rope tied to a hook for $118,
or a 35 foot rope tied to a hook for $226, is not realistic.

I also found a real live Mil-Spec folding grappling hook for ~$100,
and some "Ninja" grapples for $20.
Norm
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