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  #11   Report Post  
Don White
 
Posts: n/a
Default Do I need a grapple?

If this is a rare occurance, I would radio ahead to see if anyone was around
to help you dock.
If this is likely to be the norm when docking at your slip, and you plan to
sail singlehanded...I'd find a better location.
No sense in looking for trouble, it'll find you on it's own.

engsol wrote in message
...

This has been likely asked before.

I'll be retiring this spring, and buying a sailboat, 30-32 feet. I have

limited experience,
mainly two J-World courses, plus ASA through Advanced Coastal Cruising,
plus a two week trip off the Calif coast, plus a bit of racing on a

Santana 20.

In my daydreaming, I have most things figured out in the locale where I

plan
to sail (San Juan and Gulf Islands), except for this....

I'm approaching a slip with a cross-wind blowing me off the dock, and into

another boat
sharing the slip. So what do I do? Being single-handed and all. One

thought occurs
to me...toss a grapple and snag the dock. But this raises more

questions....will I need
to use a winch? How do I route the line? Do they even make grapples, or

will I
have to make my own?

Is this idea even worth it? Last year, we (class of 4 students on a 37

foot J-Boat)
tried to dock on the lee side of a dock in 35+ knots. It took all hands

( 4 men and a teen)
on the dock waiting to catch lines to snug us up, and it was a bit of

effort.
I was amazed at how much force the wind exerted on the boat. It was

obvious that
to dock a boat that size, in those conditions, a single-hander would have

to be
lucky as well as good.

In case you're wondering why the concern...I'm too old to jump a 4 or 5

foot gap
between the boat and dock, and know I'll need to sail smart.

Thanks for any advice/imputs.
Norm



  #12   Report Post  
john s.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Do I need a grapple?

engsol wrote in message . ..
This has been likely asked before.

I'll be retiring this spring, and buying a sailboat, 30-32 feet. I have limited experience,
mainly two J-World courses, plus ASA through Advanced Coastal Cruising,
plus a two week trip off the Calif coast, plus a bit of racing on a Santana 20.

In my daydreaming, I have most things figured out in the locale where I plan
to sail (San Juan and Gulf Islands), except for this....

I'm approaching a slip with a cross-wind blowing me off the dock, and into another boat
sharing the slip. So what do I do? Being single-handed and all. One thought occurs
to me...toss a grapple and snag the dock. But this raises more questions....will I need
to use a winch? How do I route the line? Do they even make grapples, or will I
have to make my own?

Is this idea even worth it? Last year, we (class of 4 students on a 37 foot J-Boat)
tried to dock on the lee side of a dock in 35+ knots. It took all hands ( 4 men and a teen)
on the dock waiting to catch lines to snug us up, and it was a bit of effort.
I was amazed at how much force the wind exerted on the boat. It was obvious that
to dock a boat that size, in those conditions, a single-hander would have to be
lucky as well as good.

In case you're wondering why the concern...I'm too old to jump a 4 or 5 foot gap
between the boat and dock, and know I'll need to sail smart.

Thanks for any advice/imputs.
Norm


Norm,I´ve been in that situation twice singlehanding on my 29 ft
Columbia 8.7. What I always do when entering a marina with the wind
blowing crosswise to the boats is to put my fendrs on the leeward side
of the boat. When I see a free pomoon that is going to be on the
windward side, I approach it as close as I can and then let the boat
drift onto the other boat which is to leward. I then tie my boat
temporarily to it, the then throw the bow and stern lines forward onto
the "end ponoon" and walk with them to the windward pontoo where is
make them fast to the cleats. Going back to my boat, I use the
windward winch to pull my boat to windward after having progressively
slackened the temporary lines holding me to the leeward boat so that
at no time is there a risk of the two hulls making contact. When the
boat is about 2 feet off the windward pontoon, I stop and transfer the
fenders to the windward side. May be a slow process but when you are
in a strange marina, always proceed SLOW...
john
  #13   Report Post  
john s.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Do I need a grapple?

engsol wrote in message . ..
This has been likely asked before.

I'll be retiring this spring, and buying a sailboat, 30-32 feet. I have limited experience,
mainly two J-World courses, plus ASA through Advanced Coastal Cruising,
plus a two week trip off the Calif coast, plus a bit of racing on a Santana 20.

In my daydreaming, I have most things figured out in the locale where I plan
to sail (San Juan and Gulf Islands), except for this....

I'm approaching a slip with a cross-wind blowing me off the dock, and into another boat
sharing the slip. So what do I do? Being single-handed and all. One thought occurs
to me...toss a grapple and snag the dock. But this raises more questions....will I need
to use a winch? How do I route the line? Do they even make grapples, or will I
have to make my own?

Is this idea even worth it? Last year, we (class of 4 students on a 37 foot J-Boat)
tried to dock on the lee side of a dock in 35+ knots. It took all hands ( 4 men and a teen)
on the dock waiting to catch lines to snug us up, and it was a bit of effort.
I was amazed at how much force the wind exerted on the boat. It was obvious that
to dock a boat that size, in those conditions, a single-hander would have to be
lucky as well as good.

In case you're wondering why the concern...I'm too old to jump a 4 or 5 foot gap
between the boat and dock, and know I'll need to sail smart.

Thanks for any advice/imputs.
Norm


Norm,I´ve been in that situation twice singlehanding on my 29 ft
Columbia 8.7. What I always do when entering a marina with the wind
blowing crosswise to the boats is to put my fendrs on the leeward side
of the boat. When I see a free pomoon that is going to be on the
windward side, I approach it as close as I can and then let the boat
drift onto the other boat which is to leward. I then tie my boat
temporarily to it, the then throw the bow and stern lines forward onto
the "end ponoon" and walk with them to the windward pontoo where is
make them fast to the cleats. Going back to my boat, I use the
windward winch to pull my boat to windward after having progressively
slackened the temporary lines holding me to the leeward boat so that
at no time is there a risk of the two hulls making contact. When the
boat is about 2 feet off the windward pontoon, I stop and transfer the
fenders to the windward side. May be a slow process but when you are
in a strange marina, always proceed SLOW...
john
  #14   Report Post  
Rodney Myrvaagnes
 
Posts: n/a
Default Do I need a grapple?

On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:09:54 -0800, engsol
wrote:


This has been likely asked before.

I'll be retiring this spring, and buying a sailboat, 30-32 feet. I have limited experience,
mainly two J-World courses, plus ASA through Advanced Coastal Cruising,
plus a two week trip off the Calif coast, plus a bit of racing on a Santana 20.

In my daydreaming, I have most things figured out in the locale where I plan
to sail (San Juan and Gulf Islands), except for this....

I'm approaching a slip with a cross-wind blowing me off the dock, and into another boat
sharing the slip. So what do I do? Being single-handed and all. One thought occurs
to me...toss a grapple and snag the dock. But this raises more questions....will I need
to use a winch? How do I route the line? Do they even make grapples, or will I
have to make my own?

Is this idea even worth it? Last year, we (class of 4 students on a 37 foot J-Boat)
tried to dock on the lee side of a dock in 35+ knots. It took all hands ( 4 men and a teen)
on the dock waiting to catch lines to snug us up, and it was a bit of effort.
I was amazed at how much force the wind exerted on the boat. It was obvious that
to dock a boat that size, in those conditions, a single-hander would have to be
lucky as well as good.

I faced the same problem when I retired at 65 in 2001. For three
seasons now I have singlehanded out J36 back from Maine so my wife
could spend more of her vacation cruising than passaging.

She had always docked the boat and I handled lines, so I was
concerned. I practiced at the home marina, first to the T end and then
into our slip.

My suggestions:

1. Put fenders out on both sides. If you do miss you don't damage your
neighbor's boat, or your own..

2. Learn to bring the boat to a stop next to fixed objects where a
mistake doesn't matter, like next to a mooring ball. Get a feel for
how much wind you can do this in.

3. When you string your dock lines, tie their ends together so when
you step off you have both of them. Loop one of them around its cleat
and move smartly to the other end and cleat that. Then go back and
cleat the first one properly.

So far you are using normal cruising docklines, long enough to make
springs of the leftover length.

Here is one gizmo you can make, that might come in handy if the wind
does get bad. Take a pice of line, and make an eye splice with a piece
of hose or plastic tube on the loop part, so the loop stays open. Take
a broomstick and drill a hole across one end. Tie it to the eye splice
so you can reach the cleat and drop the eye splice over it from the
cockpit.

Now determine where it should belay on your boat. On ours it is the
primary winch. You want it such that when it is attached to the end
cleat on your slip, powering forward will hold the boat against the
dock.

Test while you are tied up.

I did all the above, and I carry the gizmo, but I haven't had to use
it.

HTH



Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


"Be careful. The toe you stepped on yesterday may be connected to the ass you have to kiss today." --Former mayor Ciancia
  #15   Report Post  
Rodney Myrvaagnes
 
Posts: n/a
Default Do I need a grapple?

On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:09:54 -0800, engsol
wrote:


This has been likely asked before.

I'll be retiring this spring, and buying a sailboat, 30-32 feet. I have limited experience,
mainly two J-World courses, plus ASA through Advanced Coastal Cruising,
plus a two week trip off the Calif coast, plus a bit of racing on a Santana 20.

In my daydreaming, I have most things figured out in the locale where I plan
to sail (San Juan and Gulf Islands), except for this....

I'm approaching a slip with a cross-wind blowing me off the dock, and into another boat
sharing the slip. So what do I do? Being single-handed and all. One thought occurs
to me...toss a grapple and snag the dock. But this raises more questions....will I need
to use a winch? How do I route the line? Do they even make grapples, or will I
have to make my own?

Is this idea even worth it? Last year, we (class of 4 students on a 37 foot J-Boat)
tried to dock on the lee side of a dock in 35+ knots. It took all hands ( 4 men and a teen)
on the dock waiting to catch lines to snug us up, and it was a bit of effort.
I was amazed at how much force the wind exerted on the boat. It was obvious that
to dock a boat that size, in those conditions, a single-hander would have to be
lucky as well as good.

I faced the same problem when I retired at 65 in 2001. For three
seasons now I have singlehanded out J36 back from Maine so my wife
could spend more of her vacation cruising than passaging.

She had always docked the boat and I handled lines, so I was
concerned. I practiced at the home marina, first to the T end and then
into our slip.

My suggestions:

1. Put fenders out on both sides. If you do miss you don't damage your
neighbor's boat, or your own..

2. Learn to bring the boat to a stop next to fixed objects where a
mistake doesn't matter, like next to a mooring ball. Get a feel for
how much wind you can do this in.

3. When you string your dock lines, tie their ends together so when
you step off you have both of them. Loop one of them around its cleat
and move smartly to the other end and cleat that. Then go back and
cleat the first one properly.

So far you are using normal cruising docklines, long enough to make
springs of the leftover length.

Here is one gizmo you can make, that might come in handy if the wind
does get bad. Take a pice of line, and make an eye splice with a piece
of hose or plastic tube on the loop part, so the loop stays open. Take
a broomstick and drill a hole across one end. Tie it to the eye splice
so you can reach the cleat and drop the eye splice over it from the
cockpit.

Now determine where it should belay on your boat. On ours it is the
primary winch. You want it such that when it is attached to the end
cleat on your slip, powering forward will hold the boat against the
dock.

Test while you are tied up.

I did all the above, and I carry the gizmo, but I haven't had to use
it.

HTH



Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


"Be careful. The toe you stepped on yesterday may be connected to the ass you have to kiss today." --Former mayor Ciancia


  #16   Report Post  
Jere Lull
 
Posts: n/a
Default Do I need a grapple?

In article ,
engsol wrote:

In my daydreaming, I have most things figured out in the locale where I plan
to sail (San Juan and Gulf Islands), except for this....

I'm approaching a slip with a cross-wind blowing me off the dock, and into
another boat
sharing the slip. So what do I do? Being single-handed and all. One thought
occurs
to me...toss a grapple and snag the dock. But this raises more
questions....will I need
to use a winch? How do I route the line? Do they even make grapples, or will
I
have to make my own?


In our home slip, the spring line on the outermost piling has a loop for
a no-thought drop onto the winch. Once that's secure, proper application
of power and rudder will put the bow anywhere I want. We've been asked
if we had a bow thruster.

At foreign docks, a line from that same winch to a dock cleat -- and
back to the winch if I don't have much time -- works well.

If the conditions warrant, the cleat at the shrouds will work better,
but I haven't needed that yet on this boat.

Personally, the toughest docking is against a current. THAT can be
interesting.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/
  #17   Report Post  
Jere Lull
 
Posts: n/a
Default Do I need a grapple?

In article ,
engsol wrote:

In my daydreaming, I have most things figured out in the locale where I plan
to sail (San Juan and Gulf Islands), except for this....

I'm approaching a slip with a cross-wind blowing me off the dock, and into
another boat
sharing the slip. So what do I do? Being single-handed and all. One thought
occurs
to me...toss a grapple and snag the dock. But this raises more
questions....will I need
to use a winch? How do I route the line? Do they even make grapples, or will
I
have to make my own?


In our home slip, the spring line on the outermost piling has a loop for
a no-thought drop onto the winch. Once that's secure, proper application
of power and rudder will put the bow anywhere I want. We've been asked
if we had a bow thruster.

At foreign docks, a line from that same winch to a dock cleat -- and
back to the winch if I don't have much time -- works well.

If the conditions warrant, the cleat at the shrouds will work better,
but I haven't needed that yet on this boat.

Personally, the toughest docking is against a current. THAT can be
interesting.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/
  #18   Report Post  
MMC
 
Posts: n/a
Default Do I need a grapple?

Obviously the owners of the boats you let yours blow down onto were not
aboard!
Sounds like a good way to get you a@$ handed to you!
"john s." wrote in message
om...
engsol wrote in message

. ..
This has been likely asked before.

I'll be retiring this spring, and buying a sailboat, 30-32 feet. I have

limited experience,
mainly two J-World courses, plus ASA through Advanced Coastal Cruising,
plus a two week trip off the Calif coast, plus a bit of racing on a

Santana 20.

In my daydreaming, I have most things figured out in the locale where I

plan
to sail (San Juan and Gulf Islands), except for this....

I'm approaching a slip with a cross-wind blowing me off the dock, and

into another boat
sharing the slip. So what do I do? Being single-handed and all. One

thought occurs
to me...toss a grapple and snag the dock. But this raises more

questions....will I need
to use a winch? How do I route the line? Do they even make grapples, or

will I
have to make my own?

Is this idea even worth it? Last year, we (class of 4 students on a 37

foot J-Boat)
tried to dock on the lee side of a dock in 35+ knots. It took all hands

( 4 men and a teen)
on the dock waiting to catch lines to snug us up, and it was a bit of

effort.
I was amazed at how much force the wind exerted on the boat. It was

obvious that
to dock a boat that size, in those conditions, a single-hander would

have to be
lucky as well as good.

In case you're wondering why the concern...I'm too old to jump a 4 or 5

foot gap
between the boat and dock, and know I'll need to sail smart.

Thanks for any advice/imputs.
Norm


Norm,I´ve been in that situation twice singlehanding on my 29 ft
Columbia 8.7. What I always do when entering a marina with the wind
blowing crosswise to the boats is to put my fendrs on the leeward side
of the boat. When I see a free pomoon that is going to be on the
windward side, I approach it as close as I can and then let the boat
drift onto the other boat which is to leward. I then tie my boat
temporarily to it, the then throw the bow and stern lines forward onto
the "end ponoon" and walk with them to the windward pontoo where is
make them fast to the cleats. Going back to my boat, I use the
windward winch to pull my boat to windward after having progressively
slackened the temporary lines holding me to the leeward boat so that
at no time is there a risk of the two hulls making contact. When the
boat is about 2 feet off the windward pontoon, I stop and transfer the
fenders to the windward side. May be a slow process but when you are
in a strange marina, always proceed SLOW...
john



  #19   Report Post  
MMC
 
Posts: n/a
Default Do I need a grapple?

Obviously the owners of the boats you let yours blow down onto were not
aboard!
Sounds like a good way to get you a@$ handed to you!
"john s." wrote in message
om...
engsol wrote in message

. ..
This has been likely asked before.

I'll be retiring this spring, and buying a sailboat, 30-32 feet. I have

limited experience,
mainly two J-World courses, plus ASA through Advanced Coastal Cruising,
plus a two week trip off the Calif coast, plus a bit of racing on a

Santana 20.

In my daydreaming, I have most things figured out in the locale where I

plan
to sail (San Juan and Gulf Islands), except for this....

I'm approaching a slip with a cross-wind blowing me off the dock, and

into another boat
sharing the slip. So what do I do? Being single-handed and all. One

thought occurs
to me...toss a grapple and snag the dock. But this raises more

questions....will I need
to use a winch? How do I route the line? Do they even make grapples, or

will I
have to make my own?

Is this idea even worth it? Last year, we (class of 4 students on a 37

foot J-Boat)
tried to dock on the lee side of a dock in 35+ knots. It took all hands

( 4 men and a teen)
on the dock waiting to catch lines to snug us up, and it was a bit of

effort.
I was amazed at how much force the wind exerted on the boat. It was

obvious that
to dock a boat that size, in those conditions, a single-hander would

have to be
lucky as well as good.

In case you're wondering why the concern...I'm too old to jump a 4 or 5

foot gap
between the boat and dock, and know I'll need to sail smart.

Thanks for any advice/imputs.
Norm


Norm,I´ve been in that situation twice singlehanding on my 29 ft
Columbia 8.7. What I always do when entering a marina with the wind
blowing crosswise to the boats is to put my fendrs on the leeward side
of the boat. When I see a free pomoon that is going to be on the
windward side, I approach it as close as I can and then let the boat
drift onto the other boat which is to leward. I then tie my boat
temporarily to it, the then throw the bow and stern lines forward onto
the "end ponoon" and walk with them to the windward pontoo where is
make them fast to the cleats. Going back to my boat, I use the
windward winch to pull my boat to windward after having progressively
slackened the temporary lines holding me to the leeward boat so that
at no time is there a risk of the two hulls making contact. When the
boat is about 2 feet off the windward pontoon, I stop and transfer the
fenders to the windward side. May be a slow process but when you are
in a strange marina, always proceed SLOW...
john



  #20   Report Post  
engsol
 
Posts: n/a
Default Do I need a grapple?

On 6 Feb 2004 19:02:08 -0800, (john s.) wrote:

engsol wrote in message . ..
This has been likely asked before.

I'll be retiring this spring, and buying a sailboat, 30-32 feet. I have limited experience,
mainly two J-World courses, plus ASA through Advanced Coastal Cruising,
plus a two week trip off the Calif coast, plus a bit of racing on a Santana 20.

In my daydreaming, I have most things figured out in the locale where I plan
to sail (San Juan and Gulf Islands), except for this....

I'm approaching a slip with a cross-wind blowing me off the dock, and into another boat
sharing the slip. So what do I do? Being single-handed and all. One thought occurs
to me...toss a grapple and snag the dock. But this raises more questions....will I need
to use a winch? How do I route the line? Do they even make grapples, or will I
have to make my own?

Is this idea even worth it? Last year, we (class of 4 students on a 37 foot J-Boat)
tried to dock on the lee side of a dock in 35+ knots. It took all hands ( 4 men and a teen)
on the dock waiting to catch lines to snug us up, and it was a bit of effort.
I was amazed at how much force the wind exerted on the boat. It was obvious that
to dock a boat that size, in those conditions, a single-hander would have to be
lucky as well as good.

In case you're wondering why the concern...I'm too old to jump a 4 or 5 foot gap
between the boat and dock, and know I'll need to sail smart.

Thanks for any advice/imputs.
Norm


Norm,I´ve been in that situation twice singlehanding on my 29 ft
Columbia 8.7. What I always do when entering a marina with the wind
blowing crosswise to the boats is to put my fendrs on the leeward side
of the boat. When I see a free pomoon that is going to be on the
windward side, I approach it as close as I can and then let the boat
drift onto the other boat which is to leward. I then tie my boat
temporarily to it, the then throw the bow and stern lines forward onto
the "end ponoon" and walk with them to the windward pontoo where is
make them fast to the cleats. Going back to my boat, I use the
windward winch to pull my boat to windward after having progressively
slackened the temporary lines holding me to the leeward boat so that
at no time is there a risk of the two hulls making contact. When the
boat is about 2 feet off the windward pontoon, I stop and transfer the
fenders to the windward side. May be a slow process but when you are
in a strange marina, always proceed SLOW...
john


John,
Thanks for the input. I like it. Your method has the advantage of not
having to do something in haste, and possibly foobar'ing the whole process.
As aother poster mentioned though, the boat serving as a big fender
might object, and I'm there are some owners who will. But, by and large,
what I've seen in the San Juans is that when stuff happens, and one
boat is drifting down on another, the "target" boat just gets out some
more fenders, and prepares for contact. No evidence of hard feelings,
maybe because they'v been in that position themselves.
Norm
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