BoatBanter.com - Boat Choices

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I think I have identified some choices that fit my budget and expectations:

Tayana 37- Great selection available; and they seem to be quite nicely laid
out.
Valiant 40- Not so many out there, but what is available is very reasonably
priced.
Pacific Seacraft 34/37- Available, but expensive. Cabin layout is a bit
spare.
Ta Shing Panda 38- I really like this boat, teak decks notwithstanding. Not
many out there, but it has great appeal.

I'll be taking a close, on-board look at the Pacific Seacraft and the Tayana
tomorrow morning; here are the links to the boats: (include the "&" in the
url)

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...17&slim=quick&

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...34&slim=quick&

The Panda just seems like an awfully nice boat. I wish there were one
available here...

Thoughts/opinions are certainly welcome!!

Wendy

Of the four boats you have listed, IMFO, the Pacific Seacraft, then the
Tayana. I could be wronng but I think the Panda was built in the same yard
as the Tayana. In either case or if you go with the others, Find a good
surveyor who is working for you and has you interests in mind.. Don't ever
go with a survey provided by the seller or with a surveyor who is
recommended by the broker..

Ask around among friends in your area and make sure he is into sail boats..
(I once had a surveyor, recommended by my insurance co. who had never owned,
operated or been underway on any kind of boat.. Worked in a boat yard for 8
years.)

Anyway, once you find a surveyor that you can trust to do a good job, tell
him/her what you concerns are (teak decks, hull or deck core saturation or
seperation, hull blisters, etc). If the surveyor knows you have these
concerns, he will have a hard time ignoring them (as some do).

However, I guess it's too early to be considering survyors..

--
My opinion and experience. FWIW

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

Wendy wrote:

I think I have identified some choices that fit my budget and
expectations:

Tayana 37 ...
Valiant 40 ...
Pacific Seacraft 34/37 ...
Ta Shing Panda 38 ...

Thoughts/opinions are certainly welcome!!

If I'm not mistaken all of these except the Pacific Seacrafts are Bob Perry
designs, and there's certainly nothing wrong with that (I just noticed that
another writer pointed this out elsewhere, so maybe my memory is correct).
The PS boats are, I believe, Crealock designs. Both of these NAs are of
high repute.

You are obviously leaning toward "double enders" or canoe stern boats. If
that is because you like the look that's fine, but you should be aware of
some other aspects of the design. The original idea for this style dates
back to certain Scandinavian designs from the early part of the 20th
century. There have been many modifications over the years (e.g., the
Atkins series, which I believe includes Steve's "Ingrid"), but it wasn't
until Bob Perry came along and modified the design with the Valiant 40 that
the idea really took off. The Valiant 40 was in some ways revolutionary and
is still way up there on the list of good designs.

However depending on boat size, having a canoe stern gives up a few positive
aspects of transom stern boats without necessarily offering compensation. I
want to suggest (at the risk of drawing ire) that there has never been any
real evidence that these designs are any better or worse than transom boats
in rough going. We hear things about "parting breaking waves and seas" and
so on, but I don't believe there is any quantifiable evidence that
double-enders do any better than any other designs. Not that they do any
worse either, but there's a suggestion of superiority out there that is not
supported by any real evidence.

Next, and again depending on boat size, for a given length you definitely
_do_ lose some room, both on deck (in and around the cockpit) and below
(stowage-wise). This isn't much of a problem for a single-hander in a 40
foot boat, if a 40 foot boat is what you want. But single-handing a 40
footer is not necessarily what it's cracked up to be. I cannot tell for
sure after re-reading your initial post, but you seem to suggest that this
is a goal. If so, you should give serious though to what size makes
ultimate sense in the long term. I have single-handed many miles in designs
around 30 feet. I once took a 47 footer from Florida up to Long Island
single-handed, and although it was quite comfortable while underway
offshore, and especially at anchor, handling a boat that size in harbor or
alongside by myself was less than enjoyable. Too much work, planning,
anticipation, and just plain worry. As an aside, remember that tying
stern-to in a 40+ foot double-ended boat by yourself, and then navigating
the gap to get ashore, is usually harder than with a transom boat.

In short, think about why you want a double-ender, and also what size you
can get away with. Especially for $90K or so.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/

Steve wrote:
I could be wronng but I think the Panda was built in the same yard
as the Tayana.

The Panda was built by the Ta Shing yard who also made the Baba,
Tashiba, Taswell, and (I think) Mason lines. The Tayana was a
different yard (Ta Yang?). We have a Baba 30 and love it. The
construction is outstanding. Any issues with these boats will be
most likely caused by previous owners.

Cindy

--
the return email is a spam trap
send legit emails to cindy_at_ballreich_dot_net

Thanks for the correction Cindy.

The Bruce Bingham Fantasia was also built by the Ta Yang yard.

Interesting how these Tiawan boats are still around and enjoy a good
reputation. There was much skepticism when they started competing with the
Cheoy Lee and US made boats.

If I'm not mistaken, Pacific Seacraft is now having their boats built in
Tiawan. I was told that they build the plug, mold and the first hull in the
US and then turn over production to the Off Shore yard.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

"Armond Perretta" wrote in message
...
However depending on boat size, having a canoe stern gives up a few
positive
aspects of transom stern boats without necessarily offering compensation.
I
want to suggest (at the risk of drawing ire) that there has never been any
real evidence that these designs are any better or worse than transom
boats
in rough going. We hear things about "parting breaking waves and seas"
and
so on, but I don't believe there is any quantifiable evidence that
double-enders do any better than any other designs. Not that they do any
worse either, but there's a suggestion of superiority out there that is
not
supported by any real evidence.

It seems like the design would simply *have* to be easier in a following
sea. I spent a lot of time running these boats
http://www.boatshow.com/POWER/CustomDivePro42.html which are rudderless
jets, and they were horrid in a following sea. But I admit that comparing a
300hp non-displacement hull to a 35-40 sailboat is an apples-and-oranges
thing. My experiences may well be a hindrance here... I am not committed
to a double-ender.

Next, and again depending on boat size, for a given length you definitely
_do_ lose some room, both on deck (in and around the cockpit) and below
(stowage-wise). This isn't much of a problem for a single-hander in a 40
foot boat, if a 40 foot boat is what you want. But single-handing a 40
footer is not necessarily what it's cracked up to be. I cannot tell for
sure after re-reading your initial post, but you seem to suggest that this
is a goal.

Not the be-all and end-all goal. I'm not antisocial :) Being single, I
simply expect there would be times when I would sail alone. I may be best
served by something smaller, but 37' is attractive. The Pacific Seacraft at
32' would be fine, I think.

This is going to be an involved (and entertaining) process. I know about
ten times as much about sailboats today than I did yesterday, and I still
don't know very much at all!

Wendy