Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#14
![]()
posted to rec.boats.cruising
|
|||
|
|||
![]() I realize reading it, that my secondary or guard filter is probably 10uM since it is a Yamaha (Yamaha and Yanmar ... and Universal and Volvo, etc. dont make filters .... they buy filters and have someone pait their name on the filter .... then sell it at 5 times the market price) part intended for the filter that came with the engine. I assumed that these were all 2uM from reading previous semi informed threads. In real life and without doing an intensive particle distribution analysis typically any 'terminal/final' filter should be protected by a pre-filter that is approx. 5 times the retention size of the filter doing the most-important-work. For best economy, what you want is that all the sequential filters ----- FAIL all at the same time; and, for most normal particle distributions in nature the 5:1 sizing will usually hit the mark the first time out. The next way in 'real life' is to simply record the differential pressure (gage) across each filter VERSUS actual gallons/liters filtered, then you can adjust filter AREA to balance the flows and service life. A fuel oil system isnt a 'constant state system' so the best is probably just go with equal surface areas in each and 5X larger retention in the prefilter. Usually the way filtration of pleated filters works is that (for constant conditions) if you double the surface area you get about 3 (2.7) times the service life. PROBABLY A PUMP PROBLEM probably the beginnings of a pin hole in the diaphragm or a check valve isnt closing all the way. I would appreciate your specific answer to the question I've posed which will apply to many small sailboats. Since the smallest Racor I can buy is rated at over 15 times the fuel flow of my 20 hp diesel with return line to the top of the guard filter instead of the tank, does it not make sense to run a 2uM element in my primary? NO, not ever. Use a 10µM in FRONT of the 2µM. If the final is 10µM then use a 30µM RAcor in front of it (Racor doesnt make 50µM) The 10µM will capture a LOT of 2µM particles - the 10µM Racor is probably 60% efficient in capture at 2µM (guesstimate) ... and this will prolong the life of the final 2µM. . I don't think my engine fuel pump is running very hard. I had a lift pump because the filter and fuel pump were mounted high above the engine. PUMP should be as LOW as possible; BUT, once the delivery system is filled it really doesnt matter as the 'siphon effect' will take over - vertical measured difference between the **maximum/current** fuel level in the tank versus the vertical height that the pump is located. Whats really important with (any) pumps is to have some (siphon) pressure filling the system AND ****the height of fuel**** versus the height of the pump. In your below mentioned 'problem' I'll bet the farm that this was during the tank being fairly empty... if the tank was totally filled it would pump MORE (due to this 'siphon effect' from the tank - also called 'net positive suction head'). PLUS boat engines fuel systems are hooked up ALL WRONG versus the 'hydraulics'. If that lift pump was located back at the tank (like modern trucks and automobiles are) the pump could possibly develop upwards of 15 psi pressure, enough to push oil through a partly clogged filter (they usually stop flowing at 15-20 psi **pressure** differential. In vacuum mode the best a single stage pump can attain is about 6" vacuum (about 1/6th of atmospheric pressure - 14.7 psi or 30 inches of vacuum.), so the max. a pump located DOWNSTREAM of a filter can do is about 2.5 psid (6"vac) if that diaphragm pump is 'pulling' a vacuum, it may be 'stalling' because of the 'vacuum'. PLUS a diaphragm pump isnt perfect as it pumps a small amount backwards each time the diaphragm moves down .... until the poppet check valve fully closes. That 'jiggles' the crud in the filter and 'compresses' the deposited dirt making it additionally harder to pump through the filter. A small constant displacement gear or vane pump (with 'blow off valve' to the return line) would be much better. Pumps dont like to 'pull' they are better at 'pushing' .... filters will last longer in a pressure feed system than in a vacuum feed system (has to do with the way the debris is depositied IN the filter media). If you need to 'protect' the pump use a fine mesh strainer, NOT a filter. When I moved the filter and pump to below the engine, I got 1000 RPM more WOT with the pump turned off and fuel flowing by gravity than I used to with the lift pump running all the time. You're adding 'static head' (weight of the column of fluid) to the inlet side of the pump .... But probably this means that the pump is faulty ..... Id remove it, put it on a bench and check it to see if it HOLDS pressure .. just blind off the pump into a small gage (either end, sequentially) and see when you give it a few strokes (vac or pressure) that the gage STAYS at the pressure and NOT leaks back to zero quickly ..... bad pump valves, pin hole in the diaphragm, hole or tear developing in the diaphragm etc. If fits a valve its probably the 'inlet' valve. I like the idea of the constant fuel polishing but I don't think there is space or weight capacity for it in my boat. The fuel quality is pretty good up here and the cool climate of Maine seems to help. I use a 3 GPM 'turnover' rate for a 100 gallon fuel tank. .... start with a CLEAN tank, do all the filter work in cheapy filters ***offline*** from the main distribution system. Dont even THINK about using the engine return line for recirculation-polishing purposes. I've currently got a debate on similar issues with differing "informed" viewpoints being presented in my professional life. If you would like to get paid for an hour of work to offer another viewpoint, please email me privately. If its filtration Im partly 'contracted' to more than a few manufacturers listed above; but, I can help with the 'proof of concept' and prelim estimates, etc.; then, I can get you in touch with the correct application engineers, etc. of the most suitable companies or their technical distributors. For any filtration application I will need all the 'technicals' on the 'nature of the fluid', whats the industry, the purpose of filtration, the approximate % of solids(or deformables) to be removed, the particle 'distribution' of the fluid, MOST IMPORTANT the absolute viscosity in centipoise, the absolute or nominal retention desired (and why), the Temps, Pressures, the 'accuracy' of filtration, specific gravity, explosion hazzard, materials for the housings, batch or continuous, bio-hazard, haz-mat, etc., sterilization or Titre reduction if biopharm, .... total chemicals and physicals plus the flow rates on the fluid, etc. RhmpL33ATattDOTnet. Thanks again, -- Roger Long |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
![]() |
||||
Thread | Forum | |||
RFI filters? | Electronics | |||
Changing filters | ASA | |||
Oil Filters, etc. | General | |||
water separating fuel filters | General | |||
New style (spin on) Raycor (diesel) fuel filters | Cruising |