Ping Larry
 

Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

From reading the newspaper it appears
that most, if not all of the alcohol is produced by one or two large
agro-industrial companies here, who have close political ties with the
major parties. You figure.



Wow...Thailand is exactly like America! Big agro-industrial companies hold
a strangle on our food, here, too....


Larry
--
Xterm IS the ultimate video game...(c;

Ping Larry
 

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 00:21:39 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

On 2007-11-21 13:10:00 -0500, Larry said:

Here's the scariest website I know of:
http://kitco.com/LFgif/au1825nyb.gif
Sure glad I'm not dependent on money for fuel....
I understand your sentiment, but I was around in the 70s when it became
legal to own gold again -- and the price bounced to $800/oz on
speculation. The current valuations are simply speculation by the worst
of the pessimists.

As much as I believe oil is (still) priced artificially low --
particularly in the US -- as the cost of that raw material goes up,
alternate sources and alternate power sources will be developed.

In actual fact the costs of exploration and production drilling
and/or production costs for oil have not gone up appreciably. The high
oil costs are a direct effect of greater world usage.

Now having said that there many fields that were discovered years ago
but were too expensive to produce at crude prices at the time of
discovery that are now being re-drilled as current costs make them
viable to produce.
Back when I was in school (the late 60s), "they" said we'd run out of
oil about 2000. Now that we've passed that milestone, "they" are saying
we'll run out of oil in about the same time period.

Most "estimates" have been made on known sources and were reasonable
accurate for those sources, but as prices go up more expensive methods
of exploration become more economical and new discoveries are being
made. Of course, oil is finite and the day will come when it is no
longer available but I doubt that anyone knows with any certainty when
that will occur.

"They" also said at the time that we were heading towards a little ice age....

The problem with such predictions is that they're based upon everything
staying the same and, as we're all aware, the only constant is change.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

Crude price is based on the dollar. As the dollar falls, oil goes up.
G

Ping Larry
 

Gordon wrote in news:13k9trbq2l8gr10
@corp.supernews.com:

Crude price is based on the dollar. As the dollar falls, oil goes up.
G


Not for long. OPEC is looking for a more stable currency. As the dollar's
value plummets, with OPEC countries holding vast piles of useless dollars
losing their asses, it's pretty easy to understand why they want rid of it.

The Amero will replace it. I think this devaluation is a scam to make the
Amero easier to sell to the stupid masses....just like 9-11....



Larry
--
Xterm IS the ultimate video game...(c;

Ping Larry
 

On 2007-11-21 21:13:57 -0500, Larry said:

Jere Lull wrote in news:2007112119214075249-
jerelull@maccom:

I understand your sentiment, but I was around in the 70s when it became
legal to own gold again -- and the price bounced to $800/oz on
speculation. The current valuations are simply speculation by the worst
of the pessimists.

This is no bounce. It has been a steady, until the last 3 months, climb as ...

And it wasn't a "bounce" then, either. '-)

Which isn't to say that if you have enough stashed away to retire
permanently that it would be a bad idea to convert it into something
based upon the valuation of gold.

The amount of gold it would take to buy a mid-range BMW or similar
vehicle has been surprisingly (to many) constant over the last few
decades when expressed in ounces of gold.

Personally, I prefer to bank on economies, so currently stash most of
my retirement funds into low-cost derivatives of the US and foreign
markets, primarily asian right now, but I was "big" on the EU a few
years ago when the euro was valued less than the US dollar.

I'm considering shifting most of my investments to those based upon the
US economy now, since the dollar is so reasonably priced.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Ping Larry
 

On 2007-11-21 20:39:15 -0500, Bruce in Bangkok said:

Of course, oil is finite and the day will come when it is no longer
available but I doubt that anyone knows with any certainty when that
will occur.

I agree and am personally working towards zero "oil" consumption (even
bio-oil that I currently consume), but reiterate that some sources of
"oil" will be available if, and only if, the cost of the raw materials
rises to a realistic value.

If "crude" rises to $200 per barrel, reserves will "expand" exponentially.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Ping Larry
 

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 19:28:32 -0800, Gordon wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 00:21:39 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

On 2007-11-21 13:10:00 -0500, Larry said:

Here's the scariest website I know of:
http://kitco.com/LFgif/au1825nyb.gif
Sure glad I'm not dependent on money for fuel....
I understand your sentiment, but I was around in the 70s when it became
legal to own gold again -- and the price bounced to $800/oz on
speculation. The current valuations are simply speculation by the worst
of the pessimists.

As much as I believe oil is (still) priced artificially low --
particularly in the US -- as the cost of that raw material goes up,
alternate sources and alternate power sources will be developed.

In actual fact the costs of exploration and production drilling
and/or production costs for oil have not gone up appreciably. The high
oil costs are a direct effect of greater world usage.

Now having said that there many fields that were discovered years ago
but were too expensive to produce at crude prices at the time of
discovery that are now being re-drilled as current costs make them
viable to produce.
Back when I was in school (the late 60s), "they" said we'd run out of
oil about 2000. Now that we've passed that milestone, "they" are saying
we'll run out of oil in about the same time period.

Most "estimates" have been made on known sources and were reasonable
accurate for those sources, but as prices go up more expensive methods
of exploration become more economical and new discoveries are being
made. Of course, oil is finite and the day will come when it is no
longer available but I doubt that anyone knows with any certainty when
that will occur.

"They" also said at the time that we were heading towards a little ice age....

The problem with such predictions is that they're based upon everything
staying the same and, as we're all aware, the only constant is change.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

Crude price is based on the dollar. As the dollar falls, oil goes up.
G


That is correct in the sense that crude prices are quoted in US
dollars however the price is not necessarily paid in dollars.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

Ping Larry
 

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 02:31:41 +0000, Larry wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

The high
oil costs are a direct effect of greater world usage.


I disagree. The price of oil is caused by these incessant wars the bankers
create to lend vast sums of their banknotes to governments, at interest, to
reap huge profits.

Case in point, look at this chart compensated for the bankers devaluing
their banknotes:
http://zfacts.com/p/35.html
Each huge increase in the price of fuel is caused by WAR, not consumption.
It is CONTRIVED, and was fed the ultimate gift by the false flag operation
of 9/11/01 by the criminals in power...in banking and in government.


Larry


You are correct that the price of oil generally goes up during a war
however at the moment the demand for oil is going up at a pretty high
rate. Higher demand, higher price.

But "contrived" is too strong a statement, influenced perhaps. I was
around the oil business too long. Oil is sold in many ways but a large
percent is not controlled by the international oil companies.

For example: for years the Internationals operating oil fields in
Indonesia had to allocate a certain percent of their production to
Indonesia for domestic use. At the same time the Indonesian National
Oil Company was producing oil for use in Indonesia. The result was a
substantial amount of surplus oil that was sold onto the international
market by local brokers.

In some cases oil was even sold at prices lower then benchmark,prices
even though it was in fact benchmark oil. Why? Because the national
oil company needed money.

My point is that the oil business is not controlled by a monolithic
block, there are a multitude of little guys that are , in many cases
selling below market because they need the money.

If Indonesia were to announce tomorrow that they had made a discovery
of the largest oil deposits in history the price wold fall
dramatically because oil brokers would figure that there would be an
oil glut in a little while.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

Ping Larry
 

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 05:05:28 +0000, Larry wrote:

Gordon wrote in news:13k9trbq2l8gr10
:

Crude price is based on the dollar. As the dollar falls, oil goes up.
G


Not for long. OPEC is looking for a more stable currency. As the dollar's
value plummets, with OPEC countries holding vast piles of useless dollars
losing their asses, it's pretty easy to understand why they want rid of it.

The Amero will replace it. I think this devaluation is a scam to make the
Amero easier to sell to the stupid masses....just like 9-11....



Larry


It doesn't matter what the price is quoted in. It used to be Pounds
Sterling, now it is dollars. tomorrow it might be gold. It is just a
standard way to verbalize a value. When it comes to paying for it the
payment can be made in any currency.

If a broker asks for payment to be made in dinars or Euros, or
whatever that is how the money gets paid over.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

Ping Larry
 

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 07:14:35 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

On 2007-11-21 20:39:15 -0500, Bruce in Bangkok said:

Of course, oil is finite and the day will come when it is no longer
available but I doubt that anyone knows with any certainty when that
will occur.

I agree and am personally working towards zero "oil" consumption (even
bio-oil that I currently consume), but reiterate that some sources of
"oil" will be available if, and only if, the cost of the raw materials
rises to a realistic value.

If "crude" rises to $200 per barrel, reserves will "expand" exponentially.


I think I mentioned that there are many fields that for one reason or
another were too expensive to produce at $60 dollar crude that are now
viable. When the price hits $200 then more fields will be opened up.

By the way, at the present it is probably impossible to be a zero oil
consumer since a very large portion of world crude production is used
in other then power production. Nearly all plastics and a great deal
of the fertilizer used are made from oil. I'm not 100% sure but I'd
guess that much of your boat is actually made from oil.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

Ping Larry
 

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 02:34:25 +0000, Larry wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

From reading the newspaper it appears
that most, if not all of the alcohol is produced by one or two large
agro-industrial companies here, who have close political ties with the
major parties. You figure.



Wow...Thailand is exactly like America! Big agro-industrial companies hold
a strangle on our food, here, too....


Larry

Well, not quite a strangle hold but we are getting there. The C.P.
Group (don;t ask me to spell it) is one of the largest agro-industry
companies in the world and one of the very first to move into China.
Bumble Bee Tuna is owned by a Thai company. Thailand is the world's
largest producer of raw rubber, and so on.

But, you can still go into the countryside and buy local grown rice,
pigs, chickens. The little guy still has the tip of his nose above
water, but for how much longer I don't know. Not long I think.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)