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Eco-Sailing
On Nov 9, 5:35 pm, "Roger Long" wrote:
How can I get some? -- Roger Long Thanks for asking. As soon as we return we will be listing it all on e-bay. We will be offering a Christmas pkg that includes all 4 select roasts from Caye coffee, all freash roasted and packed in 4 seperate de- gassing bags all in a mini burlap coffee bag with a collector label. We will also have 1000 1 lb bags of each roast. It will list on ebay at 14.95 a gift pkg, a perfect Christmas gift for any sailor or coffee lover. You Roger are invited here next Friday if you can make it for free Caye coffee and a tour, after all I did use the math formula you provided to determine how much cargo we can carry safely. Joe |
Eco-Sailing
On Nov 10, 11:55 am, "Roger Long" wrote:
"Joe" wrote You Roger are invited here next Friday if you can make it for free Caye coffee and a tour, after all I did use the math formula you provided to determine how much cargo we can carry safely. Thanks very much but it's a bit far to go, even for good coffee and I've got to haul my boat next week. For the record, just in case you get abducted by aliens or have some other mishap, I did not provide you with a formula to determine how much cargo you can safely carry. I did give you a way to make a rough estimate of how much your draft will change with the addition of weight. Whether your vessel is "safe" at *any* particular draft is a very different question. Even when I do a complete stability analysis, stability test, computer model, Coast Guard stability criteria, loading conditions, righting arms, wind heel area, etc., safety has little to do with it. The boiler plate in the letter that accompanies such reports states that I am not expressing any opinion about the vessel's safety or seaworthiness. I perform standard calculations in accordance with a recognized methodology to determine certain characteristics. International research and conventions has produced a consensus that certain measures of these characteristics are associated with vessels that have a reasonable chance of surviving the effects of weather. Some of these measures have been turned into regulation. It is the comparison of the characteristics found by the calculations I perform with numbers determined by IMO, USCG, and other organizations that makes the determination of safety, not my opinion. It's a lot like the law. It doesn't guarantee justice. Having a legal system increases order and civility and increases the probability of any particular individual being treated justly but any individual can still experience a severe miscarriage of justice. Even your USCG certificated sailing vessel can be capsized (In fact, it may be more likely to be capsized because of being designed to accomodate a stupid set of regulations than if it were just designed to meet the rigors of the ocean. But, that's another story and rant.). I haven't got a clue whether you will be safe or not but I sure hope you get back with that coffee:). Are you accepting pre-orders or is it all committed to Ebay? I'd like to get some fresh off the dock. I can't help noticing that there is a certain tension between sailboat speeds and the concept of "freshness" but the polar bears would certainly thank you if they knew:) BTW Do you plan to do this again? I'm sure you could get plenty of school supplies with more lead time. My sailing partner would put your email in the church bulletin except that time is now too short. -- Roger Long Yeah I was kidding on the safety thing, I've been loading boats all my life and know how to secure cargo and when to say that's enough. Yes we are planning on doing this full time if we can sell the coffee fast enough. If we sell all the cargo before Christmas (our goal) we will kick off in January for another load of mostly 1 lb packs. The coffee will be about 3 weeks fresh roasted when it hits the market, the average store bought is 6 mo to 3 yrs old. We plan on shipping some green beans for the home roaster if thats not fresh enough. But keep in mind IMO a great Roast master is almost as important as the beans. My sailing partner has rounded up 2 violens, 2 guitars, and a 2 drums so far. She also has been in contact with Wal-Mart and they may come through with a nice load of school supplies, if not we will spring for as much as we can afford. The schools have an average of 50 kids per class room . They are very poor and shipping any supplies is very expensive for them. All the school children are very polite and friendly. School yard http://sports.webshots.com/photo/287...63212926IYXKlP The dock http://sports.webshots.com/photo/200...63212926lSCITj Dirt Bags? http://sports.webshots.com/photo/208...63212926qbnnnT From offshore San Pedro http://sports.webshots.com/photo/208...63212926qbnnnT 400 YO anchor http://sports.webshots.com/photo/230...63212926pRUVZj Roller on the reef http://sports.webshots.com/photo/213...63212926pRrgfN Caye Coffee http://sports.webshots.com/photo/239...63212926dJhhJY Airport Cauker Caye http://sports.webshots.com/photo/260...63212926CIVDtI Da Plane http://sports.webshots.com/photo/230...63212926YgCLdk Dr. Jackson & Terry & Dog http://sports.webshots.com/photo/229...63212926HhoLZk |
Eco-Sailing
On Nov 10, 1:02 pm, Joe wrote:
On Nov 10, 11:55 am, "Roger Long" wrote: "Joe" wrote You Roger are invited here next Friday if you can make it for free Caye coffee and a tour, after all I did use the math formula you provided to determine how much cargo we can carry safely. Thanks very much but it's a bit far to go, even for good coffee and I've got to haul my boat next week. For the record, just in case you get abducted by aliens or have some other mishap, I did not provide you with a formula to determine how much cargo you can safely carry. I did give you a way to make a rough estimate of how much your draft will change with the addition of weight. Whether your vessel is "safe" at *any* particular draft is a very different question. Even when I do a complete stability analysis, stability test, computer model, Coast Guard stability criteria, loading conditions, righting arms, wind heel area, etc., safety has little to do with it. The boiler plate in the letter that accompanies such reports states that I am not expressing any opinion about the vessel's safety or seaworthiness. I perform standard calculations in accordance with a recognized methodology to determine certain characteristics. International research and conventions has produced a consensus that certain measures of these characteristics are associated with vessels that have a reasonable chance of surviving the effects of weather. Some of these measures have been turned into regulation. It is the comparison of the characteristics found by the calculations I perform with numbers determined by IMO, USCG, and other organizations that makes the determination of safety, not my opinion. It's a lot like the law. It doesn't guarantee justice. Having a legal system increases order and civility and increases the probability of any particular individual being treated justly but any individual can still experience a severe miscarriage of justice. Even your USCG certificated sailing vessel can be capsized (In fact, it may be more likely to be capsized because of being designed to accomodate a stupid set of regulations than if it were just designed to meet the rigors of the ocean. But, that's another story and rant.). I haven't got a clue whether you will be safe or not but I sure hope you get back with that coffee:). Are you accepting pre-orders or is it all committed to Ebay? I'd like to get some fresh off the dock. I can't help noticing that there is a certain tension between sailboat speeds and the concept of "freshness" but the polar bears would certainly thank you if they knew:) BTW Do you plan to do this again? I'm sure you could get plenty of school supplies with more lead time. My sailing partner would put your email in the church bulletin except that time is now too short. -- Roger Long Yeah I was kidding on the safety thing, I've been loading boats all my life and know how to secure cargo and when to say that's enough. Yes we are planning on doing this full time if we can sell the coffee fast enough. If we sell all the cargo before Christmas (our goal) we will kick off in January for another load of mostly 1 lb packs. The coffee will be about 3 weeks fresh roasted when it hits the market, the average store bought is 6 mo to 3 yrs old. We plan on shipping some green beans for the home roaster if thats not fresh enough. But keep in mind IMO a great Roast master is almost as important as the beans. My sailing partner has rounded up 2 violens, 2 guitars, and a 2 drums so far. She also has been in contact with Wal-Mart and they may come through with a nice load of school supplies, if not we will spring for as much as we can afford. The schools have an average of 50 kids per class room . They are very poor and shipping any supplies is very expensive for them. All the school children are very polite and friendly. School yardhttp://sports.webshots.com/photo/2876755830063212926IYXKlP The dockhttp://sports.webshots.com/photo/2000261720063212926lSCITj Dirt Bags?http://sports.webshots.com/photo/208...63212926qbnnnT From offshore San Pedro http://sports.webshots.com/photo/208...63212926qbnnnT 400 YO anchorhttp://sports.webshots.com/photo/2305255530063212926pRUVZj Roller on the reefhttp://sports.webshots.com/photo/2138748320063212926pRrgfN Caye Coffeehttp://sports.webshots.com/photo/2394901020063212926dJhhJY Airport Cauker Cayehttp://sports.webshots.com/photo/2609329090063212926CIVDtI Da Planehttp://sports.webshots.com/photo/2309618830063212926YgCLdk Dr. Jackson & Terry & Doghttp://sports.webshots.com/photo/2295913100063212926HhoLZk- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Oh forgot.. No we are not comitted to sell on ebay just feel it's a good ave to mkt. We will be selling it here in El-Lago at the dock, and hang a shingle on the internet. We haven't taken any orders yet, and I hate to sell anything I don't have in hand. As soon as we hit the dock I'll post a link to order....Thanks for your support. Joe |
Eco-Sailing
We will be selling it here in El-Lago at the dock, and hang a shingle on the internet. .... Thanks for your support. Joe Hi Joe: Since youre carrying cargo for hire I am assuming RedCloud is USCG Documented Coast Wise, compiles to the USCG manning requirements, and of course when you off load those beans in the US its with union longshore on a union dock? So the boat with all the new (2005) LED lights you installed compiles with whatever CFR Sub Chapter category RedCloud meets? Oh, now that your a cargo boat does your insurance company know about this????? Or is this just some fly-by-night owner trying to dodge the IRS Hobby Loss problem by helping poor children and smuggling coffee scam? Good luck when you get boarded................. Bob |
Eco-Sailing
"Bob" wrote in message ps.com... We will be selling it here in El-Lago at the dock, and hang a shingle on the internet. .... Thanks for your support. Joe Hi Joe: Since youre carrying cargo for hire I am assuming RedCloud is USCG Documented Coast Wise, compiles to the USCG manning requirements, and of course when you off load those beans in the US its with union longshore on a union dock? So the boat with all the new (2005) LED lights you installed compiles with whatever CFR Sub Chapter category RedCloud meets? Oh, now that your a cargo boat does your insurance company know about this????? Or is this just some fly-by-night owner trying to dodge the IRS Hobby Loss problem by helping poor children and smuggling coffee scam? Good luck when you get boarded................. Bob Don't throw cold water on the man's dream with real life facts. Greg |
Eco-Sailing
"Bob" wrote in ... of course when you off load those beans in the US its with union longshore on a union dock? Union dock? Why, you want stale coffee? SBV |
Eco-Sailing
On Nov 10, 3:51 pm, "Scotty" wrote:
"Bob" wrote in ... of course when you off load those beans in the US its with union longshore on a union dock? Union dock? Why, you want stale coffee? SBV No doubt..I'll unload my own coffee. I may form a new shortshoreman's union local 1 at my dock and overpay myself. My vessel is an uninspected vessel. Joe |
Eco-Sailing
On Nov 10, 3:29 pm, Bob wrote:
We will be selling it here in El-Lago at the dock, and hang a shingle on the internet. .... Thanks for your support. Joe Hi Joe: Since youre carrying cargo for hire I am assuming RedCloud is USCG Documented Coast Wise, compiles to the USCG manning requirements, and of course when you off load those beans in the US its with union longshore on a union dock? Do you have a master's ticket Bob? Who says I'm carrying cargo for hire? Bonehead, it's my boat and my cargo. I'll have a proper bill of laiden, I have my FDA facility number, a custom agent who is an expert in coffee clearing, have visited the USCG, Homeland security, have my own non-union dock ect..ect..ect.. So the boat with all the new (2005) LED lights you installed compiles with whatever CFR Sub Chapter category RedCloud meets? Would I install them if they did not? (2005)? Oh, now that your a cargo boat does your insurance company know about this????? What Insurance company? I did not know you were required to be insured beyond liability in most places. Or is this just some fly-by-night owner trying to dodge the IRS Hobby Loss problem by helping poor children and smuggling coffee scam? WTF is a Hobby Loss Problem? Whats wrong Bob did they take your re-runs of Capt Kangaroo off the air and your hemmoriods bugging ya from wearing out the armchair? Good luck when you get boarded................. Thanks Joe Bob |
Eco-Sailing
On Nov 10, 5:34 pm, wrote:
On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 15:24:51 -0800, Joe wrote: On Nov 10, 3:51 pm, "Scotty" wrote: "Bob" wrote in ... of course when you off load those beans in the US its with union longshore on a union dock? Union dock? Why, you want stale coffee? SBV No doubt..I'll unload my own coffee. I may form a new shortshoreman's union local 1 at my dock and overpay myself. My vessel is an uninspected vessel. Joe If your boat is documented with just a "recreational" endorsement, it cannot be used for commerce. For foreign trade, there are additional endorsements required as well.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - If.....sockpuppet ...you are full of if's If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you, If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you But make allowance for their doubting too, If you can wait and not be tired by waiting, Or being lied about, don't deal in lies, Or being hated, don't give way to hating, And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise: If you can dream--and not make dreams your master, If you can think--and not make thoughts your aim; If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster And treat those two impostors just the same; If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools, Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken, And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools: If you can make one heap of all your winnings And risk it all on one turn of pitch-and-toss, And lose, and start again at your beginnings And never breath a word about your loss; If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew To serve your turn long after they are gone, And so hold on when there is nothing in you Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!" If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with kings--nor lose the common touch, If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you; If all men count with you, but none too much, If you can fill the unforgiving minute With sixty seconds' worth of distance run, Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And--which is more--you'll be a Man, my son! --Rudyard Kipling |
Eco-Sailing
On Nov 10, 3:38 pm, Joe wrote:
On Nov 10, 3:29 pm, Bob wrote: Do you have a master's ticket Bob? Who says I'm carrying cargo for hire? Bonehead, it's my boat and my cargo. I'll have a proper bill of laiden, I have my FDA facility number, a custom agent who is an expert in coffee clearing, have visited the USCG, Homeland security, have my own non-union dock ect..ect..ect.. Would I install them if they did not? (2005)? What Insurance company? I did not know you were required to be insured beyond liability in most places. WTF is a Hobby Loss Problem? Whats wrong Bob did they take your re-runs of Capt Kangaroo off the air and your hemmoriods bugging ya from wearing out the armchair? Thanks Joe Hello Joe: In all sincerity Joe, unless I misunderstood your post, you are going to a foreign nation, buying 10,000 lbs of XYZ, transporting it with a vessel, then offload and sell XYZ in the USA. Now unless I missed something you are selling those beans in the US and NOT using them for personal consumption, no? What compounds my concern regarding your plan most is your response where you: 1) insult my intelligence, 2) question my USCG license/ rating, and used a personal attack typically found at alt.asa.sailing. For example, "...Whats wrong Bob did they take your re-runs of Capt Kangaroo off the air and your hemmoriods bugging ya from wearing out the armchair...?" With that type of response I wonder how you will treat your customers or those poor needy children? Personally, after reading your response I will not buy any of your beans nor will I recommend anyone else buy your beans. I think what really speaks most loudly is your internet post history. You have a rather long track record with a tiresomely predictable pattern. Bob |
Eco-Sailing
I assume that you've only probably seen the pass at San Pedro in rather
benign conditions. Believe me, it can get VERY rough and be unpassable for days on end. Check out this report from Long Cay, which is about 10+ miles S of San Pedro: http://www.geoffschultz.org/Log_Page.php?id=475 as it will allow you to get in and out in almost any weather without having to go down to the ship channel at Belize City, and you probably can't get back to San Pedro through Puerto Stuck anyhow. What is your draft? -- Geoff |
Eco-Sailing
On Nov 11, 6:02 am, Geoff Schultz wrote:
I assume that you've only probably seen the pass at San Pedro in rather benign conditions. Believe me, it can get VERY rough and be unpassable for days on end. Check out this report from Long Cay, which is about 10+ miles S of San Pedro: http://www.geoffschultz.org/Log_Page.php?id=475 as it will allow you to get in and out in almost any weather without having to go down to the ship channel at Belize City, and you probably can't get back to San Pedro through Puerto Stuck anyhow. What is your draft? -- Geoff Thanks for the tips Geoff; I've checked out your web-site from bottom to top. I've checked out Long Caye , and would stand by there behind Cauker Caye if needed. Luckly I will have an escort in the reef. I've also checked out and have charts to every port, island, atoll from Houston to Guatamela. RedCloud draws 4.5 ft with the board up 11 with it down. Did you hear that Leonardo DiCaprio is building a Green Hotel on the Caye? Joe |
Eco-Sailing
On Nov 11, 6:47 am, "Roger Long" wrote:
There is an important distinction as to whether Joe owns the coffee or is carrying it for someone else. The problem with these distinctions is that the Coast Coast Guard doesn't always understand them. They made one school ship I was involved with stop carrying tee shirts and caps that they sold at port stops because they considered it "cargo" even though the organization owned them. When the USCG gets something like this wrong, they still get to be right for the first five years and $50,000 of legal fees. It was easier for the school ship to just send the stuff around by UPS to meet the ship. It sounds like Joe has done the right thing by making sure he's on the same page with everyone first. As long as he keeps dealing with the same people, he'll be OK. Where the problem can come up is if some bonehead comes into the process through transfer or other shakeup and calls it different. If he rules the other way, it would be typical of the same people Joe spoke to before to say, "Oh, we didn't mean that. You must have misunderstood." I've seen it happen. I hope he has it in writing. Even that doesn't always work. Where the problem could come in is with the school supplies. Contributors may not want to give them to Joe personally. If they are not owned by him while in transit, they then become cargo. If the contributors want tax deductions, the owner of the boat then has to be a 501 (c) 3 non-profit to avoid having the stuff become cargo. It's a minefield but it sounds like Joe is well equipped to navigate it. Still, it only takes one miss step or bit of bad luck. I saw a lot of people blown up back when USCG regulatory approvals were the major part of my business. The boys in blue seem to get especially wacky and paranoid whenever a sailboat is involved. -- Roger Long Good point Roger. The school supplies will have to be given to the El Lago Coffee Co. as we refused to register as a 501(c). Our goal is to be a model of profit for others to follow. A good friend tried and tried to get me to set the business up as a church, removing all tax burdens. Even the folks in Ambergirs Caye had to jump through hoops and become an FDA registered food facility. We meet with the Mayor of San Pedro and he assured me he will be able to accept the donations on behalf of the school and have it classified as humanitarian relief free of any tarriff's. I've been working on this project for over 2 yrs now and hope I have all ave's covered.... but since this has not been done for almost 100 yrs no telling what hick-up's we will run into. Joe |
Eco-Sailing
Joe wrote in
ups.com: On Nov 11, 6:47 am, "Roger Long" wrote: There is an important distinction as to whether Joe owns the coffee or is carrying it for someone else. The problem with these distinctions is that the Coast Coast Guard doesn't always understand them. They made one school ship I was involved with stop carrying tee shirts and caps that they sold at port stops because they considered it "cargo" even though the organization owned them. When the USCG gets something like this wrong, they still get to be right for the first five years and $50,000 of legal fees. It was easier for the school ship to just send the stuff around by UPS to meet the ship. It sounds like Joe has done the right thing by making sure he's on the same page with everyone first. As long as he keeps dealing with the same people, he'll be OK. Where the problem can come up is if some bonehead comes into the process through transfer or other shakeup and calls it different. If he rules the other way, it would be typical of the same people Joe spoke to before to say, "Oh, we didn't mean that. You must have misunderstood." I've seen it happen. I hope he has it in writing. Even that doesn't always work. Where the problem could come in is with the school supplies. Contributors may not want to give them to Joe personally. If they are not owned by him while in transit, they then become cargo. If the contributors want tax deductions, the owner of the boat then has to be a 501 (c) 3 non-profit to avoid having the stuff become cargo. It's a minefield but it sounds like Joe is well equipped to navigate it. Still, it only takes one miss step or bit of bad luck. I saw a lot of people blown up back when USCG regulatory approvals were the major part of my business. The boys in blue seem to get especially wacky and paranoid whenever a sailboat is involved. -- Roger Long Good point Roger. The school supplies will have to be given to the El Lago Coffee Co. as we refused to register as a 501(c). Our goal is to be a model of profit for others to follow. A good friend tried and tried to get me to set the business up as a church, removing all tax burdens. Even the folks in Ambergirs Caye had to jump through hoops and become an FDA registered food facility. We meet with the Mayor of San Pedro and he assured me he will be able to accept the donations on behalf of the school and have it classified as humanitarian relief free of any tarriff's. I'm glad to hear that you've already handled the school supplies Customs issue in Belize. The Belize Customs people are some of the most difficult people to interact with that I've ever found. Their goal is to extract as much revenue as possible. Believe me, you don't want to import any boat parts into Belize as you'll get taxed to the hilt. They know about the concept of "yacht in transit", but make it next to impossible to utilize it. -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org P.S. No, I hadn't heard about Leonardo DiCaprio building a resort. I've toured Ambergis by golf cart and am amazed at how large it is. |
Eco-Sailing
On Nov 11, 8:36 am, Geoff Schultz wrote:
Joe wrote roups.com: On Nov 11, 6:47 am, "Roger Long" wrote: There is an important distinction as to whether Joe owns the coffee or is carrying it for someone else. The problem with these distinctions is that the Coast Coast Guard doesn't always understand them. They made one school ship I was involved with stop carrying tee shirts and caps that they sold at port stops because they considered it "cargo" even though the organization owned them. When the USCG gets something like this wrong, they still get to be right for the first five years and $50,000 of legal fees. It was easier for the school ship to just send the stuff around by UPS to meet the ship. It sounds like Joe has done the right thing by making sure he's on the same page with everyone first. As long as he keeps dealing with the same people, he'll be OK. Where the problem can come up is if some bonehead comes into the process through transfer or other shakeup and calls it different. If he rules the other way, it would be typical of the same people Joe spoke to before to say, "Oh, we didn't mean that. You must have misunderstood." I've seen it happen. I hope he has it in writing. Even that doesn't always work. Where the problem could come in is with the school supplies. Contributors may not want to give them to Joe personally. If they are not owned by him while in transit, they then become cargo. If the contributors want tax deductions, the owner of the boat then has to be a 501 (c) 3 non-profit to avoid having the stuff become cargo. It's a minefield but it sounds like Joe is well equipped to navigate it. Still, it only takes one miss step or bit of bad luck. I saw a lot of people blown up back when USCG regulatory approvals were the major part of my business. The boys in blue seem to get especially wacky and paranoid whenever a sailboat is involved. -- Roger Long Good point Roger. The school supplies will have to be given to the El Lago Coffee Co. as we refused to register as a 501(c). Our goal is to be a model of profit for others to follow. A good friend tried and tried to get me to set the business up as a church, removing all tax burdens. Even the folks in Ambergirs Caye had to jump through hoops and become an FDA registered food facility. We meet with the Mayor of San Pedro and he assured me he will be able to accept the donations on behalf of the school and have it classified as humanitarian relief free of any tarriff's. I'm glad to hear that you've already handled the school supplies Customs issue in Belize. The Belize Customs people are some of the most difficult people to interact with that I've ever found. Their goal is to extract as much revenue as possible. Believe me, you don't want to import any boat parts into Belize as you'll get taxed to the hilt. They know about the concept of "yacht in transit", but make it next to impossible to utilize it. -- Geoffwww.GeoffSchultz.org P.S. No, I hadn't heard about Leonardo DiCaprio building a resort. I've toured Ambergis by golf cart and am amazed at how large it is.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - It's the perfect Port Geoff. The Mayor was a very intelligent fellow with a deep passion for his Caye and the people. As he put it " I feel out of my mom onto the sand of Ambergris Caye" he will never leave the island. In case you ever meet him make sure you are barefooted.. even in the finest establishment. We asked him what we could bring that would help his people and he filled us in on the schools needs. I had no problem interacting with them, very polite people, and they have a job to do just like homeland security. Joe |
Eco-Sailing
On Nov 11, 12:03 am, Bob wrote:
On Nov 10, 3:38 pm, Joe wrote: On Nov 10, 3:29 pm, Bob wrote: Do you have a master's ticket Bob? Who says I'm carrying cargo for hire? Bonehead, it's my boat and my cargo. I'll have a proper bill of laiden, I have my FDA facility number, a custom agent who is an expert in coffee clearing, have visited the USCG, Homeland security, have my own non-union dock ect..ect..ect.. Would I install them if they did not? (2005)? What Insurance company? I did not know you were required to be insured beyond liability in most places. WTF is a Hobby Loss Problem? Whats wrong Bob did they take your re-runs of Capt Kangaroo off the air and your hemmoriods bugging ya from wearing out the armchair? Thanks Joe Hello Joe: In all sincerity Joe, unless I misunderstood your post, you are going to a foreign nation, buying 10,000 lbs of XYZ, transporting it with a vessel, then offload and sell XYZ in the USA. Now unless I missed something you are selling those beans in the US and NOT using them for personal consumption, no? What compounds my concern regarding your plan most is your response where you: 1) insult my intelligence, 2) question my USCG license/ rating, and used a personal attack typically found at alt.asa.sailing. For example, "...Whats wrong Bob did they take your re-runs of Capt Kangaroo off the air and your hemmoriods bugging ya from wearing out the armchair...?" With that type of response I wonder how you will treat your customers or those poor needy children? Personally, after reading your response I will not buy any of your beans nor will I recommend anyone else buy your beans. I think what really speaks most loudly is your internet post history. You have a rather long track record with a tiresomely predictable pattern. Bob Bob Let me try to set you on course. I'm going to C.A. on my boat as a vacation, and while I'm there I'm going to buy some coffee. Just like you might drive your RV to Canada or Mexico and buy a wood carving to put in your trinket shop. As long as you declare your purchace to customs, and pay any tarriffs or taxes it's legal. As long as my vessel is making what is deemed a safe passage I can sail where I want with what ever I want to have on board as long as it's legal and I have reciepts and check in and clear with the country of purchace, and have the proper documentation. As long as the facility I buy any food from is registered with the FDA , and my coffee stand is registered with the FDA, and my coffee clears customs, I can sell the coffee in the USA. I assure you my safety equipment and boat exceeds any requirement to be deemed to make a safe passage as compared to the 1000's of other private vessels sailing to C.A. and the Caribbean. Joe |
Eco-Sailing
wrote in message ... On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 16:14:36 -0800, Joe wrote: On Nov 10, 5:34 pm, wrote: On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 15:24:51 -0800, Joe wrote: On Nov 10, 3:51 pm, "Scotty" wrote: "Bob" wrote in ... of course when you off load those beans in the US its with union longshore on a union dock? Union dock? Why, you want stale coffee? SBV No doubt..I'll unload my own coffee. I may form a new shortshoreman's union local 1 at my dock and overpay myself. My vessel is an uninspected vessel. Joe If your boat is documented with just a "recreational" endorsement, it cannot be used for commerce. For foreign trade, there are additional endorsements required as well.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - If.....sockpuppet ...you are full of if's If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you, If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you But make allowance for their doubting too, If you can wait and not be tired by waiting, Or being lied about, don't deal in lies, Or being hated, don't give way to hating, And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise: If you can dream--and not make dreams your master, If you can think--and not make thoughts your aim; If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster And treat those two impostors just the same; If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools, Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken, And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools: If you can make one heap of all your winnings And risk it all on one turn of pitch-and-toss, And lose, and start again at your beginnings And never breath a word about your loss; If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew To serve your turn long after they are gone, And so hold on when there is nothing in you Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!" If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with kings--nor lose the common touch, If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you; If all men count with you, but none too much, If you can fill the unforgiving minute With sixty seconds' worth of distance run, Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And--which is more--you'll be a Man, my son! --Rudyard Kipling You can recite that when you are boarded and they start asking the tough questions. I'm sure that will clear up the whole mess for you. If you haven't noticed already, Joe's an arrogant little twit. He thinks his **** don't stink with this latest amateur effort of his. Little does he know the chances are good he'll end up losing his arse. There are a number of reasons for this: 1) his boat's been modified by an amateur (Joe) 2) his boat's heavy and slow 3) his skills are limited to riding shotgun on an OSV. 4) he's got a woman going along - bad luck 5) he actually thinks he's gonna be able to sail most of the way - dream on 6) his business experience is limited to changing the oil at the McDonalds deep fryer 7) the idiot is going to bucking cold fronts on the return trip - he's gonna sail north against northerly winds - yah right! 8) steel sweats in the conditions he'll be sailing in. This means a wet coffee hold. Very good for a nice crop of mold. The idiot doesn't realize he needs climate controlled holds for coffee. 9) He'll burn up all his projected profit because he'll end up burning way more diesel than he thinks. His motor is old and will probably fail in such a way that it cannot be repaired underway. Could mean huge towing bill. 10) November is still hurricane season. The man's not too bright. Greg Greg |
Eco-Sailing
"Bob" wrote in message ups.com... On Nov 10, 3:38 pm, Joe wrote: On Nov 10, 3:29 pm, Bob wrote: Do you have a master's ticket Bob? Who says I'm carrying cargo for hire? Bonehead, it's my boat and my cargo. I'll have a proper bill of laiden, I have my FDA facility number, a custom agent who is an expert in coffee clearing, have visited the USCG, Homeland security, have my own non-union dock ect..ect..ect.. Would I install them if they did not? (2005)? What Insurance company? I did not know you were required to be insured beyond liability in most places. WTF is a Hobby Loss Problem? Whats wrong Bob did they take your re-runs of Capt Kangaroo off the air and your hemmoriods bugging ya from wearing out the armchair? Thanks Joe Hello Joe: In all sincerity Joe, unless I misunderstood your post, you are going to a foreign nation, buying 10,000 lbs of XYZ, transporting it with a vessel, then offload and sell XYZ in the USA. Now unless I missed something you are selling those beans in the US and NOT using them for personal consumption, no? What compounds my concern regarding your plan most is your response where you: 1) insult my intelligence, 2) question my USCG license/ rating, and used a personal attack typically found at alt.asa.sailing. For example, "...Whats wrong Bob did they take your re-runs of Capt Kangaroo off the air and your hemmoriods bugging ya from wearing out the armchair...?" With that type of response I wonder how you will treat your customers or those poor needy children? Personally, after reading your response I will not buy any of your beans nor will I recommend anyone else buy your beans. I think what really speaks most loudly is your internet post history. You have a rather long track record with a tiresomely predictable pattern. Bob Joe's been hanging around alt.sailing.asa for quite some time. He's demonstrated he's not the sharpest tool in the shed. His attitude is one or arrogance. His feelings are easily hurt. He's more like a mama's boy than a man. His ignorance is quite apparent. If he manages to make the trip and back with a viable load of cargo it will be more due to luck than to skill. I'd sure not bet one plug nickel on his success. I don't think he's perceptive enough to succeed. I see it all the time. Dreamers losing their ass because they live more in dreamland than the real world. When I saw a picture of his car jacked up on stands above flood level waters and he was bragging about how he saved it from the flood I had to laugh. Any sensible man would have moved the damned thing to higher ground well beforehand. This demonstrates how the man thinks. Too little, too late. Luck can see him through from time to time but luck will eventually run out. Greg |
Eco-Sailing
On Nov 11, 12:35 pm, "Gregory Hall" wrote:
"Bob" wrote in message ups.com... On Nov 10, 3:38 pm, Joe wrote: On Nov 10, 3:29 pm, Bob wrote: Do you have a master's ticket Bob? Who says I'm carrying cargo for hire? Bonehead, it's my boat and my cargo. I'll have a proper bill of laiden, I have my FDA facility number, a custom agent who is an expert in coffee clearing, have visited the USCG, Homeland security, have my own non-union dock ect..ect..ect.. Would I install them if they did not? (2005)? What Insurance company? I did not know you were required to be insured beyond liability in most places. WTF is a Hobby Loss Problem? Whats wrong Bob did they take your re-runs of Capt Kangaroo off the air and your hemmoriods bugging ya from wearing out the armchair? Thanks Joe Hello Joe: In all sincerity Joe, unless I misunderstood your post, you are going to a foreign nation, buying 10,000 lbs of XYZ, transporting it with a vessel, then offload and sell XYZ in the USA. Now unless I missed something you are selling those beans in the US and NOT using them for personal consumption, no? What compounds my concern regarding your plan most is your response where you: 1) insult my intelligence, 2) question my USCG license/ rating, and used a personal attack typically found at alt.asa.sailing. For example, "...Whats wrong Bob did they take your re-runs of Capt Kangaroo off the air and your hemmoriods bugging ya from wearing out the armchair...?" With that type of response I wonder how you will treat your customers or those poor needy children? Personally, after reading your response I will not buy any of your beans nor will I recommend anyone else buy your beans. I think what really speaks most loudly is your internet post history. You have a rather long track record with a tiresomely predictable pattern. Bob Joe's been hanging around alt.sailing.asa for quite some time. He's demonstrated he's not the sharpest tool in the shed. His attitude is one or arrogance. His feelings are easily hurt. He's more like a mama's boy than a man. His ignorance is quite apparent. If he manages to make the trip and back with a viable load of cargo it will be more due to luck than to skill. I'd sure not bet one plug nickel on his success. I don't think he's perceptive enough to succeed. I see it all the time. Dreamers losing their ass because they live more in dreamland than the real world. When I saw a picture of his car jacked up on stands above flood level waters and he was bragging about how he saved it from the flood I had to laugh. Any sensible man would have moved the damned thing to higher ground well beforehand. This demonstrates how the man thinks. Too little, too late. Luck can see him through from time to time but luck will eventually run out. Greg- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Well Greg.. better than Wilbur, but a puppet anyhow. Plonk; |
Eco-Sailing
On Nov 11, 11:38 am, Joe wrote:
Well Greg.. better than Wilbur, but a puppet anyhow. Plonk Hi Joe: Aside from the proliferation of personal attacks here, I would like to add one more thought before I drop this futile thread. Like Joe, and I suspect many others before us, I had visions of making my boat pay for its self. Some of the "projects" I researched were the following: Sailing lessons: Sole Proprietor Schedule C. I did this and did not make a profit for three consecutive years. As such I was violating the SPIRIT of the IRS Hobby Loss condition. Unispected Passenger Vessel CFR Sub Chapter T and of course 6 passengers Charter Boat: Same problem plus even more regs/insurance....... I even considered buying one of the 80' Katrina gulf shrippers that were going for $100k. Now that's a lot of boat for the bucks! Oh, then haul Christmas trees from PNW down to So Cal. Don't forget, since my daughter was going to school at U of Hawaii I thought I would just pack some of my daughters things and "move her to college" via sailboat. But of course pack in some "extra stuff" that she could sell at a "yard sale" later. That is even more "legal" than your project. As you belive, "hey... its MY stuff! I cna do anything I want to with it!" Very Nieve to belive that. After reading CFR, IRS, USCG, Customs etc, TO BE SAFE I then went and talked to: 1) USCG Enforcement, 2) an Admiralty Attorney ($190/hr), and 3) a CPA who specialized in marine business. The bottom line I learned is: when that 28 year old in charge of a USCG boarding party hops aboard your boat its up to her to interpret the law. They will ALWAYS error on the side of conservative interpretations. In other words, "if walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.... Youre screwed. Cause, your boat is seized, you go to jail, and you of course loose your coffee. Now you get to fight the court system to prove your innocence and get the boat back. It wasn't worth the risk losing the boat I worked my ass off to get. Dear Joe, you said that you did not know the definition of the IRS term "Hobby Loss" that means you have many more lessons to learn and many more land mines to avoid. Another telling statement you made to me was, "Im on vacation... gonna buy some souvenirs... an take it home..." BUT other places you are claiming to be a COMPANY and will sell your beans on e-bay and are seeking donations for poor children. With those statements on the web you already screwed yourself. You blabbed your plan on the web! That is evidence fool! You can not have it both ways......... you re either using 10,000 lbs of beans for personal use, which is a ridiculous amount for personal use, or you're a full on coastwise vessel transporting cargo for your company. You can not have it both ways! Besides do you really think Foss, Crowley, Tidewater, Hornbeck, Chouest, Sause, Seacor, SIU, SUP, and IBU are going to let some JIPO hippy boat wannabe undercut their business?!?!?!? Your dealing with Tony Sopranno only here the law and USCG are his Paulie Walnuts. Do it right or don't do it.......................... Bob |
Eco-Sailing
In article . com,
Joe wrote: snip A good friend tried and tried to get me to set the business up as a church, removing all tax burdens. 'The Church of the Exalted Bean'? -- Molesworth |
Eco-Sailing
On Nov 11, 4:25 pm, Molesworth wrote:
In article . com, Joe wrote: snip A good friend tried and tried to get me to set the business up as a church, removing all tax burdens. 'The Church of the Exalted Bean'? -- Molesworth Praise Jah Jah Molesworth . Ya mon, and in 1971 when my Loto number was 52 I got that letter: "you are herby order to report to the Portland Induction Center for your Pre Induction physical. W T F ! Quick.......... Send $15 bucks and become a Priest of the Universal Life Church. Ya, that's the ticket....! I even had a card! My Selective Service Draft Board laughed at the card and me. Then 1982, Vance my dive supervisor at Ocean-Tec Diving Contractors had a "church" in Morgan City La. Of course we took communion every chance we were on the beach. Even had a band. They were called The Penetrators. Vance ran into a little problem with the IRS. Even though he had a church and a congregation of the willing the IRS just did not buy it. But by then he owed thousands in back taxes, penalties, fines. Praise Jah Jah !! Ya mon, we be jammin...give praise to Jah and pass the ganja mon These half baked attempts to skirt the law's intent are so painfully obvious. You can not say on one hand: 1) im a coffee company doing commerce and list phone and address in TX, then say on the other hand 2) Im just a tourist buying 10,000 pounds of coffee for personal use and going to sail it back home cause it mine im exempt form everything. But the best is to spread the whole scam on the web!?! Loose lips sink ships....................... bob |
Eco-Sailing
On Nov 11, 2:00 pm, Bob wrote:
On Nov 11, 11:38 am, Joe wrote: Well Greg.. better than Wilbur, but a puppet anyhow. Plonk Hi Joe: Aside from the proliferation of personal attacks here, I would like to add one more thought before I drop this futile thread. Like Joe, and I suspect many others before us, I had visions of making my boat pay for its self. Some of the "projects" I researched were the following: Sailing lessons: Sole Proprietor Schedule C. I did this and did not make a profit for three consecutive years. As such I was violating the SPIRIT of the IRS Hobby Loss condition. Unispected Passenger Vessel CFR Sub Chapter T and of course 6 passengers Charter Boat: Same problem plus even more regs/insurance....... I even considered buying one of the 80' Katrina gulf shrippers that were going for $100k. Now that's a lot of boat for the bucks! Oh, then haul Christmas trees from PNW down to So Cal. Don't forget, since my daughter was going to school at U of Hawaii I thought I would just pack some of my daughters things and "move her to college" via sailboat. But of course pack in some "extra stuff" that she could sell at a "yard sale" later. That is even more "legal" than your project. As you belive, "hey... its MY stuff! I cna do anything I want to with it!" Very Nieve to belive that. After reading CFR, IRS, USCG, Customs etc, TO BE SAFE I then went and talked to: 1) USCG Enforcement, 2) an Admiralty Attorney ($190/hr), and 3) a CPA who specialized in marine business. The bottom line I learned is: when that 28 year old in charge of a USCG boarding party hops aboard your boat its up to her to interpret the law. They will ALWAYS error on the side of conservative interpretations. In other words, "if walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.... Youre screwed. Cause, your boat is seized, you go to jail, and you of course loose your coffee. Now you get to fight the court system to prove your innocence and get the boat back. It wasn't worth the risk losing the boat I worked my ass off to get. Dear Joe, you said that you did not know the definition of the IRS term "Hobby Loss" that means you have many more lessons to learn and many more land mines to avoid. Another telling statement you made to me was, "Im on vacation... gonna buy some souvenirs... an take it home..." BUT other places you are claiming to be a COMPANY and will sell your beans on e-bay and are seeking donations for poor children. With those statements on the web you already screwed yourself. You blabbed your plan on the web! That is evidence fool! You can not have it both ways......... you re either using 10,000 lbs of beans for personal use, which is a ridiculous amount for personal use, or you're a full on coastwise vessel transporting cargo for your company. You can not have it both ways! Besides do you really think Foss, Crowley, Tidewater, Hornbeck, Chouest, Sause, Seacor, SIU, SUP, and IBU are going to let some JIPO hippy boat wannabe undercut their business?!?!?!? Your dealing with Tony Sopranno only here the law and USCG are his Paulie Walnuts. Do it right or don't do it.......................... Bob Bob the point I'm making is the boat is not for hire, as I'm carrying my own cargo. The vessel is un-inspected and the crew is not paid. I did heed your message and went ahead and applied for a cargo freight endorsement on my USCG documentation, my vessel was only registered in the state. The freight endorsement was 29 bucks. http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/vdoc/fees2.htm Sorry about the Capt Kangaroo remark.. I thought you were another of Wilbur's puppets. Joe |
Eco-Sailing
"Bob" wrote in message ps.com... On Nov 11, 4:25 pm, Molesworth wrote: In article . com, Joe wrote: snip A good friend tried and tried to get me to set the business up as a church, removing all tax burdens. 'The Church of the Exalted Bean'? -- Molesworth Praise Jah Jah Molesworth . Ya mon, and in 1971 when my Loto number was 52 I got that letter: "you are herby order to report to the Portland Induction Center for your Pre Induction physical. W T F ! Quick.......... Send $15 bucks and become a Priest of the Universal Life Church. Ya, that's the ticket....! I even had a card! My Selective Service Draft Board laughed at the card and me. Then 1982, Vance my dive supervisor at Ocean-Tec Diving Contractors had a "church" in Morgan City La. Of course we took communion every chance we were on the beach. Even had a band. They were called The Penetrators. Vance ran into a little problem with the IRS. Even though he had a church and a congregation of the willing the IRS just did not buy it. But by then he owed thousands in back taxes, penalties, fines. Praise Jah Jah !! Ya mon, we be jammin...give praise to Jah and pass the ganja mon These half baked attempts to skirt the law's intent are so painfully obvious. You can not say on one hand: 1) im a coffee company doing commerce and list phone and address in TX, then say on the other hand 2) Im just a tourist buying 10,000 pounds of coffee for personal use and going to sail it back home cause it mine im exempt form everything. But the best is to spread the whole scam on the web!?! Loose lips sink ships....................... bob Like Greg Hall said. The man's about five inches short of a foot. When he started with the "ecology" crap I knew right away he'd gone off the deep end. Any fool knows profit comes first and ecology second in any successful business venture. I tried to tell him people hadn't done the sailing ship routine for transporting commodities for a hundred or so years because there was no profit in it but he wouldn't listen. I even told him if he had any chance at all at a profit that it would require paying cargo BOTH WAYS but he still didn't listen. I told him to set up shop in Belize and use Fed Ex or UPS to ship coffee to individual customer but he was so set in his pie-in-the-sky plan that he didn't even consider it. He's too inflexible. So, he'll find out the hard way. "If you're stupid you gotta be tough." All I can say is Joe must be one tough hombre by now. Wilbur Hubbard |
Eco-Sailing
On Nov 11, 5:30 pm, Joe wrote:
On Nov 11, 2:00 pm, Bob wrote: On Nov 11, 11:38 am, Joe wrote: Well Greg.. better than Wilbur, but a puppet anyhow. Plonk Hi Joe: Aside from the proliferation of personal attacks here, I would like to add one more thought before I drop this futile thread. Like Joe, and I suspect many others before us, I had visions of making my boat pay for its self. Some of the "projects" I researched were the following: Sailing lessons: Sole Proprietor Schedule C. I did this and did not make a profit for three consecutive years. As such I was violating the SPIRIT of the IRS Hobby Loss condition. Unispected Passenger Vessel CFR Sub Chapter T and of course 6 passengers Charter Boat: Same problem plus even more regs/insurance....... I even considered buying one of the 80' Katrina gulf shrippers that were going for $100k. Now that's a lot of boat for the bucks! Oh, then haul Christmas trees from PNW down to So Cal. Don't forget, since my daughter was going to school at U of Hawaii I thought I would just pack some of my daughters things and "move her to college" via sailboat. But of course pack in some "extra stuff" that she could sell at a "yard sale" later. That is even more "legal" than your project. As you belive, "hey... its MY stuff! I cna do anything I want to with it!" Very Nieve to belive that. After reading CFR, IRS, USCG, Customs etc, TO BE SAFE I then went and talked to: 1) USCG Enforcement, 2) an Admiralty Attorney ($190/hr), and 3) a CPA who specialized in marine business. The bottom line I learned is: when that 28 year old in charge of a USCG boarding party hops aboard your boat its up to her to interpret the law. They will ALWAYS error on the side of conservative interpretations. In other words, "if walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.... Youre screwed. Cause, your boat is seized, you go to jail, and you of course loose your coffee. Now you get to fight the court system to prove your innocence and get the boat back. It wasn't worth the risk losing the boat I worked my ass off to get. Dear Joe, you said that you did not know the definition of the IRS term "Hobby Loss" that means you have many more lessons to learn and many more land mines to avoid. Another telling statement you made to me was, "Im on vacation... gonna buy some souvenirs... an take it home..." BUT other places you are claiming to be a COMPANY and will sell your beans on e-bay and are seeking donations for poor children. With those statements on the web you already screwed yourself. You blabbed your plan on the web! That is evidence fool! You can not have it both ways......... you re either using 10,000 lbs of beans for personal use, which is a ridiculous amount for personal use, or you're a full on coastwise vessel transporting cargo for your company. You can not have it both ways! Besides do you really think Foss, Crowley, Tidewater, Hornbeck, Chouest, Sause, Seacor, SIU, SUP, and IBU are going to let some JIPO hippy boat wannabe undercut their business?!?!?!? Your dealing with Tony Sopranno only here the law and USCG are his Paulie Walnuts. Do it right or don't do it.......................... Bob Bob the point I'm making is the boat is not for hire, as I'm carrying my own cargo. The vessel is un-inspected and the crew is not paid. I did heed your message and went ahead and applied for a cargo freight endorsement on my USCG documentation, my vessel was only registered in the state. The freight endorsement was 29 bucks. http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/vdoc/fees2.htm Sorry about the Capt Kangaroo remark.. I thought you were another of Wilbur's puppets. Joe- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - HI Joe: thanks for the appoogy. Around here not really needed. HOwever, I do beg your attention! Once you pack stuff on a boat, any boat, with the intent (or implied) to sell the stuff you are conducting commerce on a vessel. Just think quacking ducks. Enough said............ Before I end I support your search for profit. Sitting in every galley of every stinking rig/osv/processor or F/T ive been on the top topic besides, DUIIs and child support is how to get off that thing and get rich. Good luck.................... Bob |
Eco-Sailing
On Nov 11, 10:12 pm, Bob wrote:
On Nov 11, 5:30 pm, Joe wrote: On Nov 11, 2:00 pm, Bob wrote: On Nov 11, 11:38 am, Joe wrote: Well Greg.. better than Wilbur, but a puppet anyhow. Plonk Hi Joe: Aside from the proliferation of personal attacks here, I would like to add one more thought before I drop this futile thread. Like Joe, and I suspect many others before us, I had visions of making my boat pay for its self. Some of the "projects" I researched were the following: Sailing lessons: Sole Proprietor Schedule C. I did this and did not make a profit for three consecutive years. As such I was violating the SPIRIT of the IRS Hobby Loss condition. Unispected Passenger Vessel CFR Sub Chapter T and of course 6 passengers Charter Boat: Same problem plus even more regs/insurance....... I even considered buying one of the 80' Katrina gulf shrippers that were going for $100k. Now that's a lot of boat for the bucks! Oh, then haul Christmas trees from PNW down to So Cal. Don't forget, since my daughter was going to school at U of Hawaii I thought I would just pack some of my daughters things and "move her to college" via sailboat. But of course pack in some "extra stuff" that she could sell at a "yard sale" later. That is even more "legal" than your project. As you belive, "hey... its MY stuff! I cna do anything I want to with it!" Very Nieve to belive that. After reading CFR, IRS, USCG, Customs etc, TO BE SAFE I then went and talked to: 1) USCG Enforcement, 2) an Admiralty Attorney ($190/hr), and 3) a CPA who specialized in marine business. The bottom line I learned is: when that 28 year old in charge of a USCG boarding party hops aboard your boat its up to her to interpret the law. They will ALWAYS error on the side of conservative interpretations. In other words, "if walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.... Youre screwed. Cause, your boat is seized, you go to jail, and you of course loose your coffee. Now you get to fight the court system to prove your innocence and get the boat back. It wasn't worth the risk losing the boat I worked my ass off to get. Dear Joe, you said that you did not know the definition of the IRS term "Hobby Loss" that means you have many more lessons to learn and many more land mines to avoid. Another telling statement you made to me was, "Im on vacation... gonna buy some souvenirs... an take it home..." BUT other places you are claiming to be a COMPANY and will sell your beans on e-bay and are seeking donations for poor children. With those statements on the web you already screwed yourself. You blabbed your plan on the web! That is evidence fool! You can not have it both ways......... you re either using 10,000 lbs of beans for personal use, which is a ridiculous amount for personal use, or you're a full on coastwise vessel transporting cargo for your company. You can not have it both ways! Besides do you really think Foss, Crowley, Tidewater, Hornbeck, Chouest, Sause, Seacor, SIU, SUP, and IBU are going to let some JIPO hippy boat wannabe undercut their business?!?!?!? Your dealing with Tony Sopranno only here the law and USCG are his Paulie Walnuts. Do it right or don't do it.......................... Bob Bob the point I'm making is the boat is not for hire, as I'm carrying my own cargo. The vessel is un-inspected and the crew is not paid. I did heed your message and went ahead and applied for a cargo freight endorsement on my USCG documentation, my vessel was only registered in the state. The freight endorsement was 29 bucks. http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/vdoc/fees2.htm Sorry about the Capt Kangaroo remark.. I thought you were another of Wilbur's puppets. Joe- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - HI Joe: thanks for the appoogy. Around here not really needed. HOwever, I do beg your attention! Once you pack stuff on a boat, any boat, with the intent (or implied) to sell the stuff you are conducting commerce on a vessel. Just think quacking ducks. Enough said............ I agree, and as long as the items you are selling are cleared in and out of customs, you have the proper receipts, and a safe vessel I can not see what would be considered a problem or illegal. I've spoke with the USCG Public releations officer and have messages into District 8 command, and the MSO Galveston to make sure all is OK and have them over to see the boat and sample some coffee if they can make it. I have the Customs transponder decal, FDA approval, a customs agent, state documentation, and will have federal documentation with a cargo endorsement. Before I end I support your search for profit. Sitting in every galley of every stinking rig/osv/processor or F/T ive been on the top topic Well one of our expressed goals is to be a model of Profit and Substainability for others to follow. I like you.. have done my hitch in the oilfield and have always looked for a way to make a profit with a boat on my schedule and nickle. I've decided I like doing that more than anything. They say if you want to be successful in a career find one you have a passion for and will enjoy. With this type of info in the news every day IMO we can not wait to switch to sail. With public support and the proper product to make a profit with we can force or user in a new way of doing things..sail.. profit and public demand for greener products will be the only way to change to sail (that a 300 dollar drums of oil) . BTW or local gulf is the dirtiest and most polluted by ships. Click or cut and paste to read the rest of the story: http://www.thestar.com/sciencetech/article/274399 Ship pollution kills 60,000 yearly: Study "The sludgy fuel is "basically the dregs of the oil refining process," and contains nearly 2,000 times as much sulphur as the diesel fuel burned in trucks in North America and Europe, says David Marshall, of the Clean Air Task Force, one of the groups that commissioned the study." Best Regards, Joe Good luck.................... Bob- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
Eco-Sailing
On Nov 12, 7:25 am, Joe wrote:
Hello Eco-Joe: When I considered a similar effort while in pursuit of profit on the west coast I kept running into a wall. I may have missed something or not asked the right questions. I hope that you would make a brief list of the organizations/departments and any permits, licenses, documentation needed to make your plan work. The second Rule of Acquisition states Never Give Up... Never Surrender! So, would you mind summarizing what you have already posted other places below? For example, how is your vessel Registered or Documented? You also mentioned USDA, US Customs, Bill of Laden etc. Bob |
Eco-Sailing
On Nov 13, 9:42 am, "Roger Long" wrote:
Joe, Here's another thing to consider about a boarding situation. There isn't a boarding officer alive who, finding a 41 foot sailboat stuffed to the gills with coffee, isn't going to jump, quite reasonably, to the conclusion that at least one of the bags contains the coke that is actually paying for the trip. In these days when any document can be produced with PhotoShop and a computer, the paperwork isn't going to be worth much more than the paper in the head. They are going to want to see inside every single bag, probably by dumping it on the cabin floor. Here's one of my Coast Guard stories: I get a frantic call from a client whose 58 foot fiberglass fishing boat I designed. The boat is hove to on Georges Bank with the crew sitting on the deck, hands clasped behind their heads, and a 19 year old with an automatic rifle pointed at them. A cutter is standing by with the 50 caliber trained on the pilothouse. The boat has a plywood web frame just forward of the collision bulkhead. In order to provide good drainage and put a little extra beef at the point where the stem might hit a floating object, we put in a small triangular block of foam at the bottom, poured resin around it, and then glassed it over. The volume of the whole thing was less than a cubic foot. One of the boarding party looked through the small access hatch, saw the small flat portion of floor, and said, "Ah Ha! Secret compartment." They weren't going anywhere until they saw inside. Gaining access meant cutting a large opening in the collision bulkhead so they wanted the boat and crew to remain hove to for twelve hours while a chainsaw was sent out by another cutter. Your tax dollars at work, a medium endurance cutter and crew transporting a chainsaw to look for less than 1 cubic foot of dope. Sitting with your hands locked behind your neck for twelve hours while missing the pay for half a fishing day is pretty grim. The one sign of sense the boarding party showed was letting the captain make a radio call. The owner of this boat wasn't just anybody. He was the co-owner of the waterfront centerpiece Marine Trade Center in his home port with a fleet right across from the Coast Guard Base. They could look out the windows and see his boats. I printed up a copy of the construction plan for him and he rushed off with it to the Coast Guard. Four hours later, he secured agreement to have the compartment cut into under USCG supervision at a shipyard upon the vessel's scheduled return. The key was pointing out that, if the Coast Guard couldn't get into it, the crew couldn't either. By the time the boat returned, common sense had prevailed, face had been saved, and someone quietly agreed that it would be silly to send a bunch of police, customs, FDA, state drug enforcement agents, and local news reporters (which I'm sure the owner was savvy enough to point out he would call) to watch a Geraldo Rivera moment on a small block of foam. All that saved my client a nightmare as the difficulty of getting into the space and the fact that the USCG didn't have a chainsaw on board the cutter. Think how easy it will be for them to open all those coffee bags. "OK Sir, you are free to put the coffee back in the bags and proceed on your way. Have a good day." -- Roger Long Roger speaks the truth ! If it walks like a duck and quacks (probable cause)............. youre screwed! Or as our girls and boys in blue are trained to belive "... what would a reasonable person assume when looking at a "recreational" sailboat stuffed with bags of commerce leaving a known drug exporting area? Bob |
Eco-Sailing
On Nov 13, 11:42 am, "Roger Long" wrote:
Joe, Here's another thing to consider about a boarding situation. There isn't a boarding officer alive who, finding a 41 foot sailboat stuffed to the gills with coffee, isn't going to jump, quite reasonably, to the conclusion that at least one of the bags contains the coke that is actually paying for the trip. In these days when any document can be produced with PhotoShop and a computer, the paperwork isn't going to be worth much more than the paper in the head. They are going to want to see inside every single bag, probably by dumping it on the cabin floor. Would he if you had receipt from the seller, belize customs inspection and clearence papers, FDA food facility papers, Customs transponder, Customs Agent contact info, stamped passports, letter from the Mayor of San Pedro, letter of introduction from USCG, Federal documentaion, with cargo endorsement, planned sailing routes and arrivals all ready logged with USCG and customs, Press coverage, ect..ect..ect Come on Roger I have more confidence in an officer in charge of a boarding party than that. Joe Here's one of my Coast Guard stories: I get a frantic call from a client whose 58 foot fiberglass fishing boat I designed. The boat is hove to on Georges Bank with the crew sitting on the deck, hands clasped behind their heads, and a 19 year old with an automatic rifle pointed at them. A cutter is standing by with the 50 caliber trained on the pilothouse. The boat has a plywood web frame just forward of the collision bulkhead. In order to provide good drainage and put a little extra beef at the point where the stem might hit a floating object, we put in a small triangular block of foam at the bottom, poured resin around it, and then glassed it over. The volume of the whole thing was less than a cubic foot. One of the boarding party looked through the small access hatch, saw the small flat portion of floor, and said, "Ah Ha! Secret compartment." They weren't going anywhere until they saw inside. Gaining access meant cutting a large opening in the collision bulkhead so they wanted the boat and crew to remain hove to for twelve hours while a chainsaw was sent out by another cutter. Your tax dollars at work, a medium endurance cutter and crew transporting a chainsaw to look for less than 1 cubic foot of dope. Sitting with your hands locked behind your neck for twelve hours while missing the pay for half a fishing day is pretty grim. The one sign of sense the boarding party showed was letting the captain make a radio call. The owner of this boat wasn't just anybody. He was the co-owner of the waterfront centerpiece Marine Trade Center in his home port with a fleet right across from the Coast Guard Base. They could look out the windows and see his boats. I printed up a copy of the construction plan for him and he rushed off with it to the Coast Guard. Four hours later, he secured agreement to have the compartment cut into under USCG supervision at a shipyard upon the vessel's scheduled return. The key was pointing out that, if the Coast Guard couldn't get into it, the crew couldn't either. By the time the boat returned, common sense had prevailed, face had been saved, and someone quietly agreed that it would be silly to send a bunch of police, customs, FDA, state drug enforcement agents, and local news reporters (which I'm sure the owner was savvy enough to point out he would call) to watch a Geraldo Rivera moment on a small block of foam. All that saved my client a nightmare as the difficulty of getting into the space and the fact that the USCG didn't have a chainsaw on board the cutter. Think how easy it will be for them to open all those coffee bags. "OK Sir, you are free to put the coffee back in the bags and proceed on your way. Have a good day." -- Roger Long |
Eco-Sailing
On Nov 13, 10:40 am, Bob wrote:
On Nov 12, 7:25 am, Joe wrote: Hello Eco-Joe: When I considered a similar effort while in pursuit of profit on the west coast I kept running into a wall. I may have missed something or not asked the right questions. I hope that you would make a brief list of the organizations/departments and any permits, licenses, documentation needed to make your plan work. The second Rule of Acquisition states Never Give Up... Never Surrender! So, would you mind summarizing what you have already posted other places below? For example, how is your vessel Registered or Documented? You also mentioned USDA, US Customs, Bill of Laden etc. Bob Coonass Bob; If you buy food from overseas it has to be registered with the FDA, and the seller facility(me) also has to be registered. This is under the bio-terrorism act of 2002 http://www.fda.gov/oc/bioterrorism/bioact.html Then you need a customs agent..This is where your Hawaii bound daughters plan went wrong, you were thinking about cheating the Govt out of a tarriff. The reason we chose coffee to import is that is is a tarriff free import under the free trade agreement. No Tarriff ...no customs bond. You also have to report your arrival 24hr before reaching port.. We are in the process of declaring our cargo now. Your cargo has to meet import standards...I lost the link, but is not to complicated with coffee, and easy with roasted coffee..no mold worries. There is a standard for green beans. It's all he http://help.cbp.gov/cgi-bin/customs....i=&p_topview=1 I used a customs agent who's been here 20+ years and walks the cargo clearling process many times every day...you could do it yourself but for a very resonable fee you can get an expert who knows all the steps and the players who approve everything. 100's of people here in Houston import coffee every day. After all it is a coffee green port...do you know what that means? (No inventory taxes) A bill of laiden is a manifest of cargo that shows the owner (me). Again my vessel is un-inspected with no paid crew or passengers. http://www.unols.org/publications/ma...m/03Safety.pdf The boat is registered with the state and federal documented with a cargo endorsement. http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/vdoc/nvdc.htm Then when Roger says you better double check you call Galveston MSO, and the 8th district command and ask for a courtesy inspection and a letter of introduction from the area command.. That's all ...Oh and you have to find something to import that offers enough profit to make it worth the effort. Then work your butt off 16 hrs a day for a couple years while jumping through hoops. Hope this helps. Joe |
Eco-Sailing
On Nov 13, 9:09 pm, "Roger Long" wrote:
I think you've got it covered; especially the letter of introduction from the USCG. It will at least get them to make some radio calls before dumping your coffee and it sounds like the right answers will come back. The moral of my story is: that's what it takes. I think you're good to go. Ben Franklin said "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." IMO any bording party leader thats starts slicing up a man profit because he sails the same seas as smugglers has lost to the smugglers. The USCG is out there IMO to help and protect merchant mariners, not to hinder them. You know..honestly I did not ever think I would have to defend my cargo from the USCG. My dealings with them have always been positive. Been through many complicated inspections on work boats and never had any hassles. Helped them a few times helping others...but with 400K + miles at sea I've never been stopped and boarded. But then again I've not been sailing international waters since 9/11 and I can understand why I should expect to be stopped and boarded and inspected. Just like a traffic stop the stage is usually set if the first few seconds I would assume.. If you did nothing wrong, have your paperwork in order, show a little respect for the uniform (if not the snot nose ensign)..you should be fine. Get an attitude expect big hassles. It's not a two way street. BTW one crew member on RedCloud is an x coastie..my brother. He's boarded 100's of boats at sea..while serving aboard the Sherman WHEC- 720 IIRC. He's also crewed with us a few times racing in the Harvest Moon Regetta. Joe -- Roger Long |
Eco-Sailing
On Nov 13, 8:35 pm, Joe wrote:
Since its all about profit, lets try this: I buy a 81'x24'x12' steel gulf shrimper. Make it my liveaboard. Hell, rent out a room for $400/mo! Fuel = 25,000 gallons in 6 tanks Hold = 3500 cu ft Engine (1) Cat 3412, 510 mhp, fuel 26.5 gal/hr (from Caterpillar tech website) Speed about 9 mph. Think of 3500 cu ft cargo hold full of shrimp. Shrimp weight about the same as sea water cause shrimp sink when ya throw them in the water and ya don't see them floating on the surface when they are alive. But probably there is some wasted space in the fish hold so figure 80% of the 3500 cu ft will be filled with shrimp that weigh about the same as sea water. 3500 cu ft x .80 = 2800 cu ft x 64.8 (weight of one cu ft of fresh water) = 181,440 pounds . Damn that's a lot of cargo! Lets say I drive that boat 1000 miles and buy 180,000 lbs of coffee beans and go back to the USA. That's a 2000 mile round trip. At 26gph and 9 mph and 2000 miles I'll run about 222 hours. 222 hours @ 26 gph = 5778 gallons fuel at $3.50/gal = $20,222 fuel cost. Fuel cost to transport 180,000 lbs of beans/ $20,222 = 11 cents per pound. I don't know anything about the buy-sell price of beans but lets say ya gross $3.00/pound 10,000 lbs beans x $3.00 = $30,000 180,000 lbs of beans x $3.00 = $540,000 but subtract fuel cost ($20,222) = $519,778 Lets see.......... I spend the same amount of time at sea (sailboat v. Shrimper @ 9mph) Sailboat gets me $30,000 Fuel hog Shrimp boat gets me $519,778 after paying fuel. And ya wonder why people ship by barge?!?!? So for the same amount of work im making at least $489,778 more than the small sailboat. ya, I know that a 80' steel boat will cost more in bottom paint but at those earnings I think it wont matter. But you can always back haul 15,000 gallons of high sulfur cheep diesel from SA and sell it to your friends like you do the beans. Humm, whats the cost of diesel in SA? If its all about proffit then make it! Bob |
Eco-Sailing
On Nov 14, 1:32 am, Bob wrote:
On Nov 13, 8:35 pm, Joe wrote: Since its all about profit, lets try this: I buy a 81'x24'x12' steel gulf shrimper. Make it my liveaboard. Hell, rent out a room for $400/mo! Then the USCG will call you a charter vessel so you better have a licence and crew Fuel = 25,000 gallons in 6 tanks or 75,000 dollars Hold = 3500 cu ft Engine (1) Cat 3412, 510 mhp, fuel 26.5 gal/hr (from Caterpillar tech website) Speed about 9 mph. Then what sets you apart from any other fossel burning cargo ship? What makes you think someone will prefer your beans over Folgers or Maxwell house? Think of 3500 cu ft cargo hold full of shrimp. Shrimp weight about the same as sea water cause shrimp sink when ya throw them in the water and ya don't see them floating on the surface when they are alive. But probably there is some wasted space in the fish hold so figure 80% of the 3500 cu ft will be filled with shrimp that weigh about the same as sea water. 3500 cu ft x .80 = 2800 cu ft x 64.8 (weight of one cu ft of fresh water) = 181,440 pounds . Damn that's a lot of cargo! The specific gravity of coffee is 55Lbs per cu ft Lets say I drive that boat 1000 miles and buy 180,000 lbs of coffee beans and go back to the USA. That's a 2000 mile round trip. At 26gph and 9 mph and 2000 miles I'll run about 222 hours. 222 hours @ 26 gph = 5778 gallons fuel at $3.50/gal = $20,222 fuel cost. and a couple tons of emissions Fuel cost to transport 180,000 lbs of beans/ $20,222 = 11 cents per pound. I don't know anything about the buy-sell price of beans but lets say ya gross $3.00/pound No... lets be real and say you gross close to 4 times that for roasted hand sorted, sun dried, organic gormet coffee delivered in a eco- friendly way. In a way that foster brand loyality from customers that demand companies and products be as green and eco-friendly as possiable. And while doing it you promote enviormental awareness and feel good about what you are doing. 10,000 lbs beans x $3.00 = $30,000 180,000 lbs of beans x $3.00 = $540,000 but subtract fuel cost ($20,222) = $519,778 Lets see.......... I spend the same amount of time at sea (sailboat v. Shrimper @ 9mph) Sailboat gets me $30,000 Fuel hog Shrimp boat gets me $519,778 after paying fuel. And ya wonder why people ship by barge?!?!? That fine Bob, but you are missing a key part of the puzzle and would be sitting on 180,000 lbs of green bean...That's OK it's not a time senesitive cargo until it's been roasted.... but it may take you a while to sell them. So for the same amount of work im making at least $489,778 more than the small sailboat. ya, I know that a 80' steel boat will cost more in bottom paint but at those earnings I think it wont matter. But you can always back haul 15,000 gallons of high sulfur cheep diesel from SA and sell it to your friends like you do the beans. Why try to skirt the law? That's when people get in trouble. Your head would start spinning dealing with the restrictions to import fuel, you get busted doing it I'm sure uncle sam would put you under the jail and throw away the key. Humm, whats the cost of diesel in SA? In C.A. on Ambergris Caye it's 10.00 US per gallon. If its all about proffit then make it! It's not all about the profit, if it were I'd agree. It's people who put profit over the enviroment who have overfished and over polluted our sea. That's the whole ideal, you may spend a bit more time at sea, you may carry less, you may have to be more flexable in schedules, but you can use your methods to created enough demand to make a fair profit. The only advantage you have is scale. Our long term goal is to convert RedCloud to carry 40,000 lbs per trip...then http://thomascranelibrary.org/shipbu...rscans/023.jpg Joe Bob |
Eco-Sailing
On Nov 14, 5:21 am, "Roger Long" wrote:
You are absolutely right Bob about the profit. The profit dynamics are why the world is in such a bind about fossil fuel consumption. I think Joe is after a couple of other things here besides a better cup of coffee. Would you rather grind your way all the way down to C.A. and back in a grotty old shrimper or have a nice sailing trip (assuming your are a sailor and like sailing)? Second, is to make a point about profit and sustainability. I did some economic analysis of sailing cargo vessels back in the late 70's and predicted that it wouldn't make any direct economic sense until fuel got over the price (unadjusted for inflation) that it is at today. Yeah back in the 70's this would have never worked..No one gave a rats ass enough to use spending power to change the way things are done. Today everyone from GE to HP are leveraging protecting the enviorment to sell products.. Why because the people spending are demending it. With inflation, we are still a long way from that number. Power cargo vessels are still operating at speeds where slowing down just 10% would cut their fuel bills in half. They don't because the over riding factor is how much total cargo the expensive capital investment of the whole ship can carry in its economic lifetime. Fuel is still a small part of that. The fuel cost gets passed on anyway. Fuel is going to have to become simply unavailable; not just more expensive, before these dynamics change significantly. My analysis at the time was based on looking at the cost of a sailing rig with maintenance and replacement and then calculating the average wind velocity that would produce the same energy as an equal cost of fuel oil. There simply isn't that much wind out there except of a few triangular routes. When you then factor in the total amount of cargo that can be moved within a reasonable economic lifetime of the whole vessel investment, the numbers go right out of practicality. This is based on pure profit based on the current economic system. This system is skewed out of reality by not fully accounting for costs. Instead of industry, car drivers, an the rest of us having to capture and clean up our emissions, others pay invisibly. If things like the cost of the spectacular increase in asthma were all charged back to their sources, the economics would become very different. Now that we are beginning to get a handle on what the costs of global warming will be, apportioning those true costs back to each gallon of fuel burned would completely change the economics of sailing cargo vessels. Until society does that, which is about as likely as eliminating all guns and other weapons from the planet, sailing cargo vessels are not going to be the norm as long as fuel is available at any price. I disagree...People love guns and self protection. The public can demand greener ways of doing things..the same way they refuse to loose the right to bear arms. If I can be successful maybe the Chouest and Lykes of the world will pay attention and invest in sailing cargo vessels.. Still, the fuel is going to run out. Joe is going to have a good time and get people thinking about these issues as well as bring back great coffee. For that, I salute him. It isn't about the profit. There are container ships for that. No I beg to differ..As Wilbur put it Profit drive the system, and unless you can make a profit you are just a side show freak to corporate America. If you show a profit then others will surely follow. Joe -- Roger Long |
Eco-Sailing
On Nov 14, 5:36 am, Joe wrote:
On Nov 14, 1:32 am, Bob wrote: On Nov 13, 8:35 pm, Joe wrote: Since its all about profit, lets try this: I buy a 81'x24'x12' steel gulf shrimper. Make it my liveaboard. Hell, rent out a room for $400/mo! Then the USCG will call you a charter vessel so you better have a licence and crew Hi Jo: Im a little confused............... The only diffrence between my example an yours is that I would have a lorger boat and more beans. Remember, Im just a guy going to CA and going to buy 180,000 lbs of beans for personal use and take back to TX. In your example you only take 10K and later 40,000 lbs of beans.Why would I need a license. The boats at 177GRT so under 200 GRT and Documented Recreational use. I don't know anything about the buy-sell price of beans but lets say ya gross $3.00/pound No... lets be real and say you gross close to 4 times that for roasted hand sorted, sun dried, organic gormet coffee delivered in a eco- friendly way. In a way that foster brand loyality from customers that demand companies and products be as green and eco-friendly as possiable. And while doing it you promote enviormental awareness and feel good about what you are doing. This is where you need to brush off that MBA you got a few years ago. "brand Loyality" is a very slippery area of research. Think Organinc, donkey, Kona coffee at $35/lb. That might give yo a good product model. Why try to skirt the law? I can not belive you just said that! !! ! ! ! ! !! ! That's when people get in trouble. Your head would start spinning dealing with the restrictions to import fuel, you get busted doing it I'm sure uncle sam would put you under the jail and throw away the key. Yes, fuel.... meat... dairy and a bunch of other products have "special" needs. But I am still very conserned about using a boat to haul beans for your business. If you are a business in TX selling beans. IRS will require your tax ID number and declare any proffit/ loss etc. from sale of beans. WIll you be deducting ANY cost regarding the boat? You maybe completely correct about the legal aspect of hauling beans by boat. However, the advice I got from the attorney and cpa I used were impeccably conservative when interpreting the various rules, regs, policy etc. Bottom line I was in business and using a vessel to conduct commerce. THey both repeated "ya can not have it both ways. Youre either a tourist bringing personal consuption or a business hauling commerce." They recommended getting a Coastwise documentations and fulfilling the rest of the requirements. But maybe in the GOM thins are a little more lax. Either way, I'll be down there next season. Hope I run into you. Id lvoe to shake your hand and have a sample. Hows that coffee go with a mess of mud bugs? Soon to be a Coonass again, Bob PS The gulf boat example was just a BS idea I had. I tried to pencil- out how to out compete and haul wheat down the Columbia river with one. But the Tidewater barges just had toooo much scale to overcome. |
Eco-Sailing
On Nov 14, 10:15 am, "Roger Long" wrote:
"Joe" wrote The only advantage you have is scale. Our long term goal is to convert RedCloud to carry 40,000 lbs per trip...then http://thomascranelibrary.org/shipbu...enparker/parke... Joe, You know, I used to design ships like that and still can. http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Boats.htm#Barque http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Boats.htm#Tship -- Roger Long Wow the Corwith Cramer is a fine looking vessel. Are you familiar with CFR 251.1 Applications for construction- differential subsidy under Title V, Merchant Marine Act, 1936, as amended? Do you think they have any construction standards still around for Clippers to follow? Joe |
Eco-Sailing
On Nov 14, 1:21 am, "Roger Long" wrote:
... The fuel cost gets passed on anyway. ... Living on an island we are very aware of this. Currently the two shipping companies in Hawaii have about a 29% fuel surcharge. Matson, the major player in this market, has been bringing new ships online that are a little larger and significantly faster than the old fleet. They are using more fuel per TEU now than they did with the old fleet. So, it doesn't appear that a straight economic argument is going to move them to sail unless something radical happens in the marketplace. -- Tom. |
Eco-Sailing
On Nov 14, 11:14 am, Bob wrote:
On Nov 14, 5:36 am, Joe wrote: On Nov 14, 1:32 am, Bob wrote: On Nov 13, 8:35 pm, Joe wrote: Since its all about profit, lets try this: I buy a 81'x24'x12' steel gulf shrimper. Make it my liveaboard. Hell, rent out a room for $400/mo! Then the USCG will call you a charter vessel so you better have a licence and crew Hi Jo: Im a little confused............... The only diffrence between my example an yours is that I would have a lorger boat and more beans. NO you stated that you would rent a cabin for 400 a mo. That means you are carrying passangers for hire. You as the Captain of the vessel will then need a current Captains ticket. If you hire crew you will need the same with even more Jones act regulations and requirements. Remember, Im just a guy going to CA and going to buy 180,000 lbs of beans for personal use and take back to TX. In your example you only take 10K and later 40,000 lbs of beans.Why would I need a license. The boats at 177GRT so under 200 GRT and Documented Recreational use. You need to document it for commerical use, coastal with a cargo endorsement. I don't know anything about the buy-sell price of beans but lets say ya gross $3.00/pound No... lets be real and say you gross close to 4 times that for roasted hand sorted, sun dried, organic gormet coffee delivered in a eco- friendly way. In a way that foster brand loyality from customers that demand companies and products be as green and eco-friendly as possiable. And while doing it you promote enviormental awareness and feel good about what you are doing. This is where you need to brush off that MBA you got a few years ago. "brand Loyality" is a very slippery area of research. Think Organinc, donkey, Kona coffee at $35/lb. That might give yo a good product model. Why try to skirt the law? I can not belive you just said that! !! ! ! ! ! !! ! I'm not trying to skirt the law. In my example of a tourist using his own vehicle ( RV ) while on vacation to bring back trickets... the point was it's OK as long as you declare them, and pay any custom tarriffs. The only difference on a boat is you need to be a documented vessel to trade with other nations. That's when people get in trouble. Your head would start spinning dealing with the restrictions to import fuel, you get busted doing it I'm sure uncle sam would put you under the jail and throw away the key. Yes, fuel.... meat... dairy and a bunch of other products have "special" needs. But I am still very conserned about using a boat to haul beans for your business. If you are a business in TX selling beans. IRS will require your tax ID number and declare any proffit/ loss etc. from sale of beans. Yes we are a DBA ~ EL Lago Coffee Co. We pay taxes on profits and we deduct expenses like any other company. Except that Harris county is considered a Coffee Green Port. So when all the schools ect tax companies they base that tax on inventory and equipment. Coffee is exempt. WIll you be deducting ANY cost regarding the boat? Yes, I'm using it for business purposes. Just like you could use your car for business. You deduct the expenses that you incur doing biz. You maybe completely correct about the legal aspect of hauling beans by boat. However, the advice I got from the attorney and cpa I used were impeccably conservative when interpreting the various rules, regs, policy etc. Bottom line I was in business and using a vessel to conduct commerce. THey both repeated "ya can not have it both ways. Youre either a tourist bringing personal consuption or a business hauling commerce." They recommended getting a Coastwise documentations and fulfilling the rest of the requirements. Good recommendations. Why did you see that as a brick wall? Meet the requirements for a safe boat, fill out the paper work, pay all the fee's and you are good to go. Sheeze my brick wall to get into a boating business were I did not have 3 million dollars after Katrina hit to buy a 110 ft fixer upper crewboat...was looking at the 3 million dollar boat before Katrina when it was only 225K, two weeks after Katrina it sold for 3 million...timings everything. But maybe in the GOM thins are a little more lax. Either way, I'll be down there next season. Hope I run into you. Id lvoe to shake your hand and have a sample. Hows that coffee go with a mess of mud bugs? Beers prbly better with spicy mud bugs. Soon to be a Coonass again, Bob PS The gulf boat example was just a BS idea I had. I tried to pencil- out how to out compete and haul wheat down the Columbia river with one. But the Tidewater barges just had toooo much scale to overcome. Well yeah...you might as well haul dirt. I have another boat ideal that can make money...picking up old growth lumber from the bottoms on the 1800's logging rivers in Alaska and the PNW...But the initial investment brick wall is there. Joe |
Eco-Sailing
On Nov 14, 1:01 pm, Joe wrote:
On Nov 14, 11:14 am, Bob wrote: On Nov 14, 5:36 am, Joe wrote: On Nov 14, 1:32 am, Bob wrote: On Nov 13, 8:35 pm, Joe wrote: Since its all about profit, lets try this: I buy a 81'x24'x12' steel gulf shrimper. Make it my liveaboard. Hell, rent out a room for $400/mo! Then the USCG will call you a charter vessel so you better have a licence and crew Hi Jo: Im a little confused............... The only diffrence between my example an yours is that I would have a lorger boat and more beans. NO you stated that you would rent a cabin for 400 a mo. That means you are carrying passangers for hire. You as the Captain of the vessel will then need a current Captains ticket. If you hire crew you will need the same with even more Jones act regulations and requirements. Remember, Im just a guy going to CA and going to buy 180,000 lbs of beans for personal use and take back to TX. In your example you only take 10K and later 40,000 lbs of beans.Why would I need a license. The boats at 177GRT so under 200 GRT and Documented Recreational use. You need to document it for commerical use, coastal with a cargo endorsement. I don't know anything about the buy-sell price of beans but lets say ya gross $3.00/pound No... lets be real and say you gross close to 4 times that for roasted hand sorted, sun dried, organic gormet coffee delivered in a eco- friendly way. In a way that foster brand loyality from customers that demand companies and products be as green and eco-friendly as possiable. And while doing it you promote enviormental awareness and feel good about what you are doing. This is where you need to brush off that MBA you got a few years ago. "brand Loyality" is a very slippery area of research. Think Organinc, donkey, Kona coffee at $35/lb. That might give yo a good product model. Why try to skirt the law? I can not belive you just said that! !! ! ! ! ! !! ! I'm not trying to skirt the law. In my example of a tourist using his own vehicle ( RV ) while on vacation to bring back trickets... the point was it's OK as long as you declare them, and pay any custom tarriffs. The only difference on a boat is you need to be a documented vessel to trade with other nations. That's when people get in trouble. Your head would start spinning dealing with the restrictions to import fuel, you get busted doing it I'm sure uncle sam would put you under the jail and throw away the key. Yes, fuel.... meat... dairy and a bunch of other products have "special" needs. But I am still very conserned about using a boat to haul beans for your business. If you are a business in TX selling beans. IRS will require your tax ID number and declare any proffit/ loss etc. from sale of beans. Yes we are a DBA ~ EL Lago Coffee Co. We pay taxes on profits and we deduct expenses like any other company. Except that Harris county is considered a Coffee Green Port. So when all the schools ect tax companies they base that tax on inventory and equipment. Coffee is exempt. WIll you be deducting ANY cost regarding the boat? Yes, I'm using it for business purposes. Just like you could use your car for business. You deduct the expenses that you incur doing biz. You maybe completely correct about the legal aspect of hauling beans by boat. However, the advice I got from the attorney and cpa I used were impeccably conservative when interpreting the various rules, regs, policy etc. Bottom line I was in business and using a vessel to conduct commerce. THey both repeated "ya can not have it both ways. Youre either a tourist bringing personal consuption or a business hauling commerce." They recommended getting a Coastwise documentations and fulfilling the rest of the requirements. Good recommendations. Why did you see that as a brick wall? Meet the requirements for a safe boat, fill out the paper work, pay all the fee's and you are good to go. Sheeze my brick wall to get into a boating business were I did not have 3 million dollars after Katrina hit to buy a 110 ft fixer upper crewboat...was looking at the 3 million dollar boat before Katrina when it was only 225K, two weeks after Katrina it sold for 3 million...timings everything. But maybe in the GOM thins are a little more lax. Either way, I'll be down there next season. Hope I run into you. Id lvoe to shake your hand and have a sample. Hows that coffee go with a mess of mud bugs? Beers prbly better with spicy mud bugs. Soon to be a Coonass again, Bob PS The gulf boat example was just a BS idea I had. I tried to pencil- out how to out compete and haul wheat down the Columbia river with one. But the Tidewater barges just had toooo much scale to overcome. Well yeah...you might as well haul dirt. I have another boat ideal that can make money...picking up old growth lumber from the bottoms on the 1800's logging rivers in Alaska and the PNW...But the initial investment brick wall is there. Joe- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - PS..Did you hear about the war between the Texan's and the coonasses on the Sabine river? The coonasses were tossing dynamite across the river...and the Texan's were lighting it and throwing it back ;0) Joe |
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