"Glenn (s/v Seawing)" wrote in message
Regarding anchoring technique, I always do a 5:1 scope and make sure
that I include the tidal range and the height of the bow roller above
the water in the calculation. It's amazing how mane people forget the
later in their calculation, especially in shallow water. We also back
down heavily on the anchor with a reversing Max prop, so we get a good
feel for the holding. I'm always amazed at the people who throw their
anchor overboard and don't back down!
-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

YES! More than once I've cringed to hear someone zip into the anchorage
(upwind of me of course) & toss anchor (chain rattling) & run for the bar.
I woke up one morning to find one such boat beside me after dragging all
the way across the anchorage. He insisted he didn't drag.

snipped a bit

Yes, people mostly use the depth of water and forget the distance from bow
roller to the water in their scope calculations (if they calculate at
all). I'm anything but an expert but as I'm keenly aware I am responsible
for the safety of my vessel and those aboard, I take anchoring very
seriously.
Glenn.
s/v Seawing.

YES! And the test of good anchoring is to check that your anchor holds
aginst full astern.
--
JimB
Google 'jimb sail' or go www.jimbaerselman.f2s.com
Compares Cruise areas of Europe

On Sat, 3 Nov 2007 11:02:47 -0000, "JimB" wrote:

YES! And the test of good anchoring is to check that your anchor holds
aginst full astern.

Heh. Full astern on a substantial twin engine trawler is about 15,000
pounds of thrust. Not today, thanks.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Nov 2007 11:02:47 -0000, "JimB" wrote:

YES! And the test of good anchoring is to check that your anchor holds
aginst full astern.

Heh. Full astern on a substantial twin engine trawler is about 15,000
pounds of thrust. Not today, thanks.

Of course. Sorry, speaking as a sail person. But you'd have a good idea what
your suitable astern revs were to check proper holding?
--
JimB
Google 'jimb sail' or go www.jimbaerselman.f2s.com
Compares Cruise areas of Europe

On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 10:19:34 -0000, "JimB" wrote:

Of course. Sorry, speaking as a sail person. But you'd have a good idea what
your suitable astern revs were to check proper holding?

I ususally start with one engine at idle speed which generates about
600 lbs of thrust, then reverse the second engine for a total of
around 1,200 lbs. That will take the catenary out of 3/8ths chain and
begin to stretch a 7/8ths 3 strand nylon hook line. If I want to
really ensure a good set I'll bring the engines up to 900 RPM or so
which begins to really stretch out the hook line. I'd estimate well
over 2,000 lbs of pull at that point with the engines putting out
around 40 hp each into 30 inch 4 bladed props.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 10:19:34 -0000, "JimB" wrote:

Of course. Sorry, speaking as a sail person. But you'd have a good idea
what
your suitable astern revs were to check proper holding?

I ususally start with one engine at idle speed which generates about
600 lbs of thrust, then reverse the second engine for a total of
around 1,200 lbs. That will take the catenary out of 3/8ths chain and
begin to stretch a 7/8ths 3 strand nylon hook line. If I want to
really ensure a good set I'll bring the engines up to 900 RPM or so
which begins to really stretch out the hook line. I'd estimate well
over 2,000 lbs of pull at that point with the engines putting out
around 40 hp each into 30 inch 4 bladed props.

Great. Should look after a good F7 as long as there's not too much seaway.
It always amazes me how so many people don't test their set, then wonder why
they drag.

Another bit of useful info you get from testing is how much rode you need
for your anchor. Some stick beautifully at 4:1, others need 6:1 minimum.
--
JimB
Google 'jimb sail' or go www.jimbaerselman.f2s.com
Compares Cruise areas of Europe

On 2007-11-03 07:02:47 -0400, "JimB" said:

YES! And the test of good anchoring is to check that your anchor holds
aginst full astern.

Maybe, but only AFTER it's been set and settled in for a while with
lesser strain. It's so amusing to watch someone immediately punch it
and drag through the most friendly anchorages.

With our Maxprop, full reverse will drag pretty much any anchor if it
isn't thoroughly buried first, and we have 20 HP.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

"Jere Lull" wrote in message
news:2007110313362816807-jerelull@maccom...
On 2007-11-03 07:02:47 -0400, "JimB" said:

YES! And the test of good anchoring is to check that your anchor holds
aginst full astern.

Maybe, but only AFTER it's been set and settled in for a while with lesser
strain. It's so amusing to watch someone immediately punch it and drag
through the most friendly anchorages.

With our Maxprop, full reverse will drag pretty much any anchor if it
isn't thoroughly buried first, and we have 20 HP.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/


This is a lesson I learned early on. Anchoring for me is two minute
process. The anchor needs time to settle in. I usually watch it (my 'old'
style CQR) go down and lay, pay out some chain & let the boat pull it tight,
pay out more....eventually with more than enough scope out & several tugs, I
reverse the engine & wait then gradually begin to increase rpm but not to
max. Sometimes on a rode that's not all chain, where I've not room for max
scope, I've used mushroom/river anchors clipped onto the rode with an extra
line to hold the rode down (simulating larger scope). I usually use the
dingy to hand-over-hand out on the rode to deploy these.

I'm no expert anchorer but my experience has taught me that care & thought
in anchoring (vs. drop & run) has more to do with anchor performance than
the type & weight of anchor. One cannot assume that because an anchor is
overboard that it is set. Care in setting my smaller secondary CQR in less
than ideal bottom has seen us stay put in blows 50+ knots...where the boat
is rising and falling in the swells & shuttering with the gusts. I have
also had boats drag around me in a great anchorage with good protection &
holding in pretty moderate breeze (because they dumped the anchor & chain
overboard & ran for the bar).

Glenn.
s/v Seawing.

On Nov 4, 9:42 am, "Glenn \(s/v Seawing\)"
wrote:
I'm no expert anchorer but my experience has taught me that care & thought
in anchoring (vs. drop & run) has more to do with anchor performance than
the type & weight of anchor.

If your experience is limited to your CQR and/or the other old types,
which it almost certainly is if you stick with the plow, it is no
surprise that you think this.

Naturally care and attention, guided by expertise, are important
factors. But this sweeping comment is like saying it doesn't matter
what car you drive, no difference between a Corolla and a Ferrari -
all that matters is the ability of the driver.

The nice thing about feedback from "early adopters" of the new
generation anchors is that those users typically DO also have
experience with the older types, be it plows or claws or some
variation. The resulting feedback is thus doubly valuable, because it
is COMPARATIVE.

"Jere Lull" wrote in message
news:2007110313362816807-jerelull@maccom...
On 2007-11-03 07:02:47 -0400, "JimB" said:

YES! And the test of good anchoring is to check that your anchor holds
aginst full astern.

Maybe, but only AFTER it's been set and settled in for a while with lesser
strain. It's so amusing to watch someone immediately punch it and drag
through the most friendly anchorages.

With our Maxprop, full reverse will drag pretty much any anchor if it
isn't thoroughly buried first, and we have 20 HP.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

I did say 'holds', as apart from 'set'. I assumed that no-one is foolish
enough to try and set a anchor with full power, or with inertia forces
present. Apart from the fact that it's bad technique with old plough anchors
and flat anchors, with a quick setting modern anchor there's a high risk
you'd screw the winch apart, if you didn't pull it out of the deck.
--
JimB
Google 'jimb sail' or go www.jimbaerselman.f2s.com
Compares Cruise areas of Europe