Who's at fault here
 

Joe wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2hrUSs9ndA&NR=1

the boat from which the pix were taken based on all rules I know of.

Possible that this was on a lake in some nation with different rules.

Who's at fault here
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in
:




It didn't quite look like head-to-head. It looked like a crossing
situation somewhat. The boat on the right is right, but both are at
fault. Both boats should have turned to starboard. I don't see how you
can say the faster boat would have or wouldn't have the ability to
maneuver. Looks like plenty of sea room to me for both boats.

Idiots....



It's the "nearly so" part of that statement that gets a lot of people in
trouble.
Yes, at the time of this video, the boat taking the video should have come
right, but they are so close to that "nearly so" that I wonder about the
perspective leading up to this. BG not sure I'm explaining this
correctly

Who's at fault here
 

On Oct 18, 11:48 am, Paul Cassel
wrote:
Joe wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2hrUSs9ndA&NR=1

the boat from which the pix were taken based on all rules I know of.

Possible that this was on a lake in some nation with different rules.

I like this one better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkqKpnU8sCE

Who's at fault here
 

"Paul Cassel" wrote in message
. ..
Joe wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2hrUSs9ndA&NR=1

the boat from which the pix were taken based on all rules I know of.

Possible that this was on a lake in some nation with different rules.


To me, it looks like the smaller boat (hitee), Prince Wales(?), was flying a
Dutch flag. I tried to listen to the voices, but couldn't make out the
language.


Leanne

Who's at fault here
 

"otnmbrd" wrote in message
.70...
"Capt. JG" wrote in
:




It didn't quite look like head-to-head. It looked like a crossing
situation somewhat. The boat on the right is right, but both are at
fault. Both boats should have turned to starboard. I don't see how you
can say the faster boat would have or wouldn't have the ability to
maneuver. Looks like plenty of sea room to me for both boats.

Idiots....



It's the "nearly so" part of that statement that gets a lot of people in
trouble.
Yes, at the time of this video, the boat taking the video should have
come
right, but they are so close to that "nearly so" that I wonder about the
perspective leading up to this. BG not sure I'm explaining this
correctly


I get it... seems like unless we're really missing a lot of the perspective,
the boat taking the vid should have changed taken evasive action well before
getting into this spot.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Who's at fault here
 

"tom" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Oct 18, 11:48 am, Paul Cassel
wrote:
Joe wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2hrUSs9ndA&NR=1

the boat from which the pix were taken based on all rules I know of.

Possible that this was on a lake in some nation with different rules.

I like this one better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkqKpnU8sCE





The people on the ferry summed it up nicely. BG

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Who's at fault here
 

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 07:00:02 -0700, Joe wrote:

On Oct 17, 10:37 pm, otnmbrd wrote:

Naturally the video is only of the last moments so we can't see what led
up to the collision, but if this was a normal head to head or nearly so
they both screwed up in many ways.... especially the boat the video was
being shot from.


Seems the guy on the small boat did a quick half turn to port then
decides to stay on course, and the big boat is clueless. The shaking
of a fist in the air must be a local custom on the big boat

Clowns on auto pilots IMO. At the start you notice there is a fleet of
small vessels heading out all following the exact course. I bet it's
an area with heavy regular crossing situations. Both Captains assuming
the other will give way, until it's to late.

I've really noticed this the last few years, now that everyone has GPS
chart plotters and autopilot. Despite a whole ocean to spread out into,
we're all traveling along the same "ant lines" -- drawn between the same
waypoints on the same popular routes. The close calls are becoming more
frequent, and closer. Years ago we weren't shaving our waypoints so
closely, or steering as straight.

Unfortunately some of the worst games of "chicken" that I've seen were by
skippers of really large powerboats, who were probably professional
captains. I wish I had video to send to the Coast Guard.

Most people do play it safe though.

Matt O.

Who's at fault here
 

"Matt O'Toole" wrote in message
g...
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 07:00:02 -0700, Joe wrote:

On Oct 17, 10:37 pm, otnmbrd wrote:

Naturally the video is only of the last moments so we can't see what
led
up to the collision, but if this was a normal head to head or nearly
so
they both screwed up in many ways.... especially the boat the video
was
being shot from.


Seems the guy on the small boat did a quick half turn to port then
decides to stay on course, and the big boat is clueless. The shaking
of a fist in the air must be a local custom on the big boat

Clowns on auto pilots IMO. At the start you notice there is a fleet
of
small vessels heading out all following the exact course. I bet it's
an area with heavy regular crossing situations. Both Captains
assuming
the other will give way, until it's to late.

I've really noticed this the last few years, now that everyone has GPS
chart plotters and autopilot. Despite a whole ocean to spread out
into,
we're all traveling along the same "ant lines" -- drawn between the
same
waypoints on the same popular routes. The close calls are becoming
more
frequent, and closer. Years ago we weren't shaving our waypoints so
closely, or steering as straight.

Unfortunately some of the worst games of "chicken" that I've seen were
by
skippers of really large powerboats, who were probably professional
captains. I wish I had video to send to the Coast Guard.



The Coast Guard? Just what are THEY gonna do about it? They're out there
issuing licenses to admitted illegal recreational drug abusers so I
guess they don't care a whole lot about operational safety in the first
place.

Greg

Who's at fault here
 

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 10:59:04 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

I get it... seems like unless we're really missing a lot of the perspective,
the boat taking the vid should have changed taken evasive action well before
getting into this spot.

Yes, unless the smaller, faster boat maneuvered into an untenable
situation. The bigger boat (where the video was taken) can not stop
on a dime or turn sharply. If the small boat entered that danger
zone, they share the blame at the very least. It would be a somewhat
similar situation if you approached a tug and barge from the starboard
side at the last minute. That was the basis for my original comment
stating that faster more maneuverable boat has some obligation not to
put themselves into harms way.

Who's at fault here
 

Wayne.B wrote in
:

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 10:59:04 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

I get it... seems like unless we're really missing a lot of the
perspective, the boat taking the vid should have changed taken evasive
action well before getting into this spot.

Yes, unless the smaller, faster boat maneuvered into an untenable
situation. The bigger boat (where the video was taken) can not stop
on a dime or turn sharply. If the small boat entered that danger
zone, they share the blame at the very least. It would be a somewhat
similar situation if you approached a tug and barge from the starboard
side at the last minute. That was the basis for my original comment
stating that faster more maneuverable boat has some obligation not to
put themselves into harms way.


I can't really agree with you here. Speed and maneuverability are not
factors under the Rules in the case we are looking at.
First off, though the vessel the video was shot from is definitely larger,
from what we see we cannot say what it's potential maneuverability is/was
versus the smaller boat.....
Secondly, if your boat is slower less maneuverable, then you should take
action sooner, to avoid, and fast or slow, you have that obligation not to
put yourself in harm's way.

A. My main point is that video's such as this are generally too short to
give enough background info to make a good decision as to what happened.

B. From experience, the head to head or nearly so situation can frequently
get out of hand and cause collisions due to slight visual perception
differences and wrong direction turns to avoid ( the video shows a small
angle crossing situation but this could have been something else earlier)

C. BG In reality....lumbering big ship versus twin screw Donzi.....
Donzi.....get the hell outa the way! (the Rules purist will have a ball
with that statement)