NoSeeUm wrote in
:

I had two Rolls 4Ds and a Rolls 27. Plenty of juice for anything I
wanted to do. All three batteries expired within days of the warranty
expiring, four years.

Great engineering! Dead on! (no pun)

ALL batteries are made of LEAD, Sulphuric Acid diluted with distilled
water in a cheap plastic case (unless you have a source for rubber cases
you can repair, which they all do everything they can do to prevent).

The only difference, in the chemistry not the advertising, is how pure
these 3 parts are. I doubt there's much difference in the purity.

I think the biggest difference in them is their MAINTENANCE SCHEDULE....
That DOES make a big difference. Just trying to get a boater to water
them PROPERLY NOT TAP WATER FROM HIS TANK is a major problem. Putting
gallons of water in an abused battery is too late to save it.

Larry
--
Please - Turn OFF cruise control when
you turn on windshield wipers!

Molesworth wrote in news:ukmole-
:

What is the difference
between those and 'marine' batteries in the same category?


About $US200...(c;


Larry
--
Please - Turn OFF cruise control when
you turn on windshield wipers!

On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:54:33 +0000, Larry wrote:

"Nothing is funnier than a yachtie with a new 4000 watt inverter carrying
his electric heater down the dock with a big grin on his face."

4,000 watts is certainly overkill for a sailboat but we get a lot of
mileage out of the 2,000 watt inverter on our trawler. Both engines
have 120 amp alternators which are bridged into the house bank through
automatic battery combiners. When underway we have almost totally
eliminated the need for using the generator unless we need multiple
zones of air conditioning. Normally we alternate between the freezer
and the refrigeration system, both of which have holding plates.

As an additional plus, the inverter doubles as a 150 amp 3 stage
charger.

I'll probably never do this but it would certainly be possible to put
a 200 amp alternator on each engine and get a 5,000 watt inverter.
That would allow the freezer and fridges to run at the same time plus
a zone or two of air conditioning.

We have reduced generator run time by at least 50% using the
inverter, and that is worth quite a lot in reduced fuel, maintenance,
and increased quietitude.

NoSeeUm wrote in news:1191410982_5725
@sp12lax.superfeed.net:

I'll probably never do this but it would certainly be possible to put
a 200 amp alternator on each engine and get a 5,000 watt inverter.
That would allow the freezer and fridges to run at the same time plus
a zone or two of air conditioning.


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45416

10KVA peak for starting, 7.2KVA continuous duty for running... on sale
for $299. 120/240, single phase AC. To get 3600 RPM means to get 60 Hz.
You'll need to UP convert torque into speed at your economical cruise RPM
of the main engine with enough parallel V-belts to handle 20HP, typically
2 but 4 will last lots longer. The output is electronic regulated to
120/240VAC inside the box on the back of the self-starting alternator.
No external source is necessary to start it.

These Chinese make a beautiful machine for such a cheap price at Harbor
Freight. Turn it with your hand. Its ball bearings are as smooth as
silk and as tight as a finely machined watch. It's extremely well
balanced.

If you're running the engine on a power boat at a relatively constant
cruising speed, no sense running another 2 or 3 conversion inefficiencies
when you can have real AC right off your belt drives. Simply shut down
the loads before going into any situation where you must vary the RPM of
the main engines, greatly. An extra 20hp load on them won't make that
much difference to their already-terrible fuel mileage.....

Every time I turn one of these, I wanna see a 1:2 or 1:3 pulley ratio
turning it up 3600 RPM from a 1800 or 1200 RPM 3 cylinder Yanmar in a
quiet cabinet. 10KW is a LOT of power!

BIG DISCOUNT IN PRICE for the last year or so!

Larry
--
Please - Turn OFF cruise control when
you turn on windshield wipers!

Larry wrote:


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45416

10KVA peak for starting, 7.2KVA continuous duty for running... on sale
for $299. 120/240, single phase AC. To get 3600 RPM means to get 60 Hz.
You'll need to UP convert torque into speed at your economical cruise RPM
of the main engine with enough parallel V-belts to handle 20HP, typically
2 but 4 will last lots longer. The output is electronic regulated to
120/240VAC inside the box on the back of the self-starting alternator.
No external source is necessary to start it.

These Chinese make a beautiful machine for such a cheap price at Harbor
Freight. Turn it with your hand. Its ball bearings are as smooth as
silk and as tight as a finely machined watch. It's extremely well
balanced.

If you're running the engine on a power boat at a relatively constant
cruising speed, no sense running another 2 or 3 conversion inefficiencies
when you can have real AC right off your belt drives. Simply shut down
the loads before going into any situation where you must vary the RPM of
the main engines, greatly. An extra 20hp load on them won't make that
much difference to their already-terrible fuel mileage.....

Every time I turn one of these, I wanna see a 1:2 or 1:3 pulley ratio
turning it up 3600 RPM from a 1800 or 1200 RPM 3 cylinder Yanmar in a
quiet cabinet. 10KW is a LOT of power!

BIG DISCOUNT IN PRICE for the last year or so!

Larry


Hey Larry,

That hummer looks interesting.

But...

Forgetting to disconnect the electrical load before throttling could
make a mess of those expensive electronics.

Sounds like the perfect job for a PIC or BASIC Stamp?
Monitor RPM and dump the electrics if too high or low.

Richard

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 22:32:11 +0000, Larry wrote:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45416

10KVA peak for starting, 7.2KVA continuous duty for running... on sale
for $299. 120/240, single phase AC. To get 3600 RPM means to get 60 Hz.
You'll need to UP convert torque into speed at your economical cruise RPM

The price is right but it would be better if it had a speed regulated
hydraulic drive, and if it was designed for the marine environment.

For ordinary mortals with ordinary engines, high amperage alternators
and an inverter are an easier way to go, and you can use the inverter
at anchor with no engines running.

cavelamb himself wrote in news:13g8k92do2p18a3
@corp.supernews.com:

Sounds like the perfect job for a PIC or BASIC Stamp?
Monitor RPM and dump the electrics if too high or low.



No, actually, if we had any brains, we'd stop installing 60 Hz
alternators altogether in all boats the old-fashioned-way and install
very high frequency, multiphase alternators on their engines, which put
out massive power from a light, tiny package. THAT power is simply
rectified and fed to a LARGE solid state AC power supply, which puts out
a rock-solid 60 Hz, close enough in frequency to run an electric clock
because it's set by a quartz crystal in its custom IC, at a rock-solid
120VAC up to the point it automatically trips out on overload, it being
immune from overloads/shorts/being fried like a crap 60 hz generator with
circuit breakers panting away.

Honda just upgraded their line of these types of portable gensets to
6,500 watts:
http://www.hayesequipment.com/eu6500is.htm
I'm NOT suggesting this genset in the boat....I'm suggesting dumping
putting heavy, bulky 60hz, fixed speed, power plants into these boats and
put in a multi-source, marinized electronic generator using this
technology to provide serious power from whichever power is available....

There is no reason this technology could not have TWO of these tiny,
flywheel-sized, high frequency, multiphase alternators in a single power
system, one on the main engine which feeds the electronic power generator
underway from already-available engine power....and another on a tiny
diesel easing along at some rediculously slow speed when on the hook or
sailing with the main engine shut down.

"Where do we put this??".....EASY! WHERE THOSE TROUBLESOME HUGE-ASSED
BATTERY BANKS ARE LOCATED NOW! We convert the WHOLE BOAT to 120VAC, 60Hz
HOUSE ELECTRICITY and dump the lead monsters overboard! No charger, no
watering, no $400 each superbatteries that can't power anything much
useful over 100 watts....all of it!

The electronic generator will NOT be mounted in the engine compartment,
that's totally unnecessary. The electronics should be in a cooler place,
maybe part of the AC power panel. They're quite small, even
multikilowatt ones! They weigh as much as your stereo, which is larger.

The ENGINE part of the power plant in a 6,500 watt genset is the size of
a lawnmower engine....COMPLETE WITH THE HIGH FREQ ALTERNATOR, which is
INSIDE the flywheel, much like the stator coils on an outboard motor!
These two parts need NOT be colocated in the same location! A high
voltage, low current multiphase cable merely connects them.

Your 12V battery charging alternator already on your engine is a high-
frequency, multiphase alternator, just like Tesla invented....TESLA, with
the T. What's different with the new one is it's 400VAC, not 12VAC. The
coils are smaller, more of them, and more efficient all the way around.
The only thing on my dream boat 12V would be an emergency VHF running off
the 12V starter battery if it all blew to hell. I might want the
auxiliary genset engine starting from a separate little AGM motorcycle
battery, for redundancy of the only other battery on the boat, the one
that cranks the beast.

All lighting, refridgeration, cooking appliances, pumps (except for one
12V bilge pump)....would all be 120VAC....DIRT CHEAP, not $200 at Waste
Marine!

Air conditioning? No problem! Just flip the AC breaker. We gots 7KW of
electronic AC power plant....not some puny 500 AH of golf cart batteries
going dead the minute you start to use them. How stupid.

This electronic generator:
http://www.hayesequipment.com/eu3000is.htm
has been running my electronics shop for the last couple of years. It
must have about 2500 hours on it. I bought it a new air filter. I
bought it a spark plug, too, but it didn't need changing. I felt guilty.
It powers the shop, including the TWO 8000 Btu window air conditioners
from Korea, for about 8-9 hours a day on $6-7 in gas. With my running
load, around 1680 watts with AC running, the engine is still in economy
mode at around 1300 RPM, but its throttle has opened to maintain that
speed. Adding the 40A charger, for instance, causes it to speed up to
around 2000 RPM until the load drops off. Engine speed means NOTHING to
electronic generators that electronically generate their sinewaves.
(look at the waveform it generates near the bottom of the first webpage).

For portable power, I still have my EU1000is suitcase portable Honda:
http://www.hayesequipment.com/eu1000.htm
the shop ran on the first year. 1KW isn't enough power for the shop with
cooling. In winter, I mount it INSIDE the shop with its exhaust plumbed
through a stainless gas pipe used as a heat exchanger, to power the shop.
Running like this, albeit making noise, I suck all the heat out of its
cooling system and exhaust before exhausting the engine gasses out the
bottom of the truck so cool you can barely feel its warm....with lots of
condensate water running out, too, under the van. It sucks its intake
air from inside the van, making it a recirculating hot air heater, as
well as a 1KW power plant. The tiny engine in it runs lots faster then
the 3000 watt model's more traditional lawn mower engine. It, too, has a
long history of troublefree operation...under considerable abuse...(c;

If we're gonna build a new kind of pleasure boat power system, this
technology is the way to go. If we want to run this power plant off of
batteries, that's not impossible, either! The Ni-Mh battery banks in a
hybrid car are WELL SUITED for this kind of service! They are also high
voltage, low current sources....but won't run the AC all night. You can
forget that without DIESEL or GAS power, so far.

Wayne.B wrote in
:

and you can use the inverter
at anchor with no engines running.


You can't run it for long.....unless you have submarine batteries.

Larry
--
Please - Turn OFF cruise control when
you turn on windshield wipers!

On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 23:40:46 +0000, Larry wrote:

You can't run it for long.....unless you have submarine batteries.

Not true. We run the inverter all night on 4 golf cart batteries, $55
each at Sam's Club, typical life 3 years, about 600 charge/discharge
cycles at 30 to 50% average discharge, average load 10 to 20 amps.

How long can you run a submarine on 4 golf cart batteries?

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 23:40:46 +0000, Larry
wrote:

You can't run it for long.....unless you have submarine
batteries.

Not true. We run the inverter all night on 4 golf cart
batteries,

powering what?