On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 01:02:12 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

You know, I was about to say that I wouldn't hesitate to advise them
against it, but then reread and thought: We could be described
similarly though I'm considered fairly competent by those whose
opinions matter to me, the ones who have done it.

It really comes down to more than competence in my opinion. There are
intangibles that come only from experience, and those lessons are best
learned in small doses where the situation is less likely to spiral
out of control when (not if) things start to go wrong. Boats and
people both react a great deal differently when offshore in blue
water, as opposed to coastal cruising in relatively protected water
with a nearby harbor readily at hand.

When the wind is blowing 25 to 30 kts things can get pretty ugly
offshore, people get fatigued and the gear is severely tested.

I tried to convince the owner to plan a stop in Bermuda but was
unsuccessful. That would have given them the equivalent of a 3 day
shake down cruise and a chance to regroup if things were going wrong.

Wayne.B wrote:

On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 01:02:12 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

You know, I was about to say that I wouldn't hesitate to advise them
against it, but then reread and thought: We could be described
similarly though I'm considered fairly competent by those whose
opinions matter to me, the ones who have done it.

It really comes down to more than competence in my opinion. There are
intangibles that come only from experience, and those lessons are best
learned in small doses where the situation is less likely to spiral
out of control when (not if) things start to go wrong. Boats and
people both react a great deal differently when offshore in blue
water, as opposed to coastal cruising in relatively protected water
with a nearby harbor readily at hand.

When the wind is blowing 25 to 30 kts things can get pretty ugly
offshore, people get fatigued and the gear is severely tested.

I tried to convince the owner to plan a stop in Bermuda but was
unsuccessful. That would have given them the equivalent of a 3 day
shake down cruise and a chance to regroup if things were going wrong.

Are you saying it only takes 3 days to get to Bermuda? I thought it
was more like a week (depending on the wind). It takes a cruise ship
at 18 knots about 48 hours.

In any case, if they are going with the Caribbean 1500, they have to
have certain equipment, and they will have communication with others.
This is from the website:

Following the start, planned for Sunday, Nov 4th, participants will share positions twice daily during scheduled chat hours. Problems and solutions are discussed, as are privately arranged weather forecasts.The fleet will gather at the Bluewater Yachting Center in Hampton, VA, for several days of briefings and final preparations leading up to the start. All participants are invited and newer passage makers are encouraged to arrive two days early (November 1) for additional briefings and inspections.

Required Briefings for Skippers:

* Inspection Briefing, Medical Topics, Communications Briefing (procedures, schedules, frequencies), Sailing Instructions, Navigation and Landfall review
* Weather Briefing and Gulf Stream Analysis

Additional Briefings for Skippers and Crew:

* Women's Roundtables, Offshore Fishing Techniques, Life Raft Demonstration and Distress Signal Workshop, Sail Repair Workshop, Diesel Engine Troubleshooting Workshop
* Evening Social Gatherings

The Caribbean 1500 is both a rally and a cruise in company from the US to the British Virgin Islands. Some 900 boats have chosen to join the Caribbean 1500 in making their passage to the islands, and they find it a very special experience, as our many repeat participants attest. Once the fleet arrives at Tortola, nightly awards parties will bring participants together to swap experiences and exchange cruising plans. The passage typically takes 6-10 days

On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 11:34:09 -0400, Rosalie B.
wrote:

Are you saying it only takes 3 days to get to Bermuda?

55 foot boat, decent reaching conditions, no problem making it in less
than 4 days.

I have made it from Newport, RI in less than 3 days but that was on a
fully crewed racing boat.

On 2007-10-03 23:14:05 -0400, Wayne.B said:

On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 01:02:12 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

You know, I was about to say that I wouldn't hesitate to advise them
against it, but then reread and thought: We could be described
similarly though I'm considered fairly competent by those whose
opinions matter to me, the ones who have done it.

It really comes down to more than competence in my opinion. There are
intangibles that come only from experience, and those lessons are best
learned in small doses where the situation is less likely to spiral out
of control when (not if) things start to go wrong.

That was part of what I was saying. They *could* have sufficient
experience in dealing with these things from many days out.

Boats and people both react a great deal differently when offshore in
blue water, as opposed to coastal cruising in relatively protected
water with a nearby harbor readily at hand. When the wind is blowing
25 to 30 kts things can get pretty ugly offshore, people get fatigued
and the gear is severely tested.

Other than the length of time, that's psychological with a properly
prepared yacht and crew. I'd far rather tackle 25+ knots in deep water
than on the Chesapeake, where that's *ALWAYS* ugly.

I tried to convince the owner to plan a stop in Bermuda but was
unsuccessful. That would have given them the equivalent of a 3 day
shake down cruise and a chance to regroup if things were going wrong.

I dunno. The Caribbean 1500 sounds like a safer bet, as Bermuda's a bit
off of the rhumb line.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's new pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI pages: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Fri, 05 Oct 2007 05:02:40 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

Boats and people both react a great deal differently when offshore in
blue water, as opposed to coastal cruising in relatively protected
water with a nearby harbor readily at hand. When the wind is blowing
25 to 30 kts things can get pretty ugly offshore, people get fatigued
and the gear is severely tested.

Other than the length of time, that's psychological with a properly
prepared yacht and crew. I'd far rather tackle 25+ knots in deep water
than on the Chesapeake, where that's *ALWAYS* ugly.

The important difference is that on the Chesapeake you know that
you'll be sleeping soundly in a warm dry bunk at the end of the day.
It's the prolonged fatigue and sleep deprivation that does people in
offshore.

On 2007-10-05 06:11:03 -0400, Wayne.B said:

On Fri, 05 Oct 2007 05:02:40 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

Boats and people both react a great deal differently when offshore in
blue water, as opposed to coastal cruising in relatively protected
water with a nearby harbor readily at hand. When the wind is blowing
25 to 30 kts things can get pretty ugly offshore, people get fatigued
and the gear is severely tested.

Other than the length of time, that's psychological with a properly
prepared yacht and crew. I'd far rather tackle 25+ knots in deep water
than on the Chesapeake, where that's *ALWAYS* ugly.

The important difference is that on the Chesapeake you know that you'll
be sleeping soundly in a warm dry bunk at the end of the day. It's the
prolonged fatigue and sleep deprivation that does people in offshore.

That is the "length of time" aspect and a portion of the psychological
aspect I was referring to.

I would *not* want to be stuck in a multi-day storm, but we're talking
about the Caribbean 1500, which is a pretty short trip: 6-10 days, and
they DO postpone when weather's a known factor. At most, a normal storm
of a few hours' duration can be expected along with the usual fall
squalls.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's new pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI pages: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

"Jere Lull" wrote in message
news:2007100501023975249-jerelull@maccom...
On 2007-10-03 23:14:05 -0400, Wayne.B
said:

On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 01:02:12 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

snipped:
Boats and people both react a great deal differently when offshore in
blue water, as opposed to coastal cruising in relatively protected water
with a nearby harbor readily at hand. When the wind is blowing 25 to 30
kts things can get pretty ugly offshore, people get fatigued and the gear
is severely tested.

Other than the length of time, that's psychological with a properly
prepared yacht and crew. I'd far rather tackle 25+ knots in deep water
than on the Chesapeake, where that's *ALWAYS* ugly.

I was a crew member on a 40'er that departed Yokosuka, Japan bound for
Seattle a little over 20 years ago. For the first 5 days out, it was a
wonderful ride until we hit a low and the **it hit the fan. After 3 days of
rain and double reefed main and stay sail, the owner captain had his
breakdown. This wasn't the cruise he had envisioned. We turned around and
headed back to Yokosuka. He ended up, being a retired officer, getting it
shipped back to San Diego on an LSD that was headed for home. I was ready
and wanted to go and to this day have felt that I was cheated out of my
Pacific crossing.

Leanne

On Oct 5, 7:43 am, "Leanne" wrote:
"Jere Lull" wrote in message

news:2007100501023975249-jerelull@maccom...

On 2007-10-03 23:14:05 -0400, Wayne.B
said:

On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 01:02:12 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

snipped:

Boats and people both react a great deal differently when offshore in
blue water, as opposed to coastal cruising in relatively protected water
with a nearby harbor readily at hand. When the wind is blowing 25 to 30
kts things can get pretty ugly offshore, people get fatigued and the gear
is severely tested.

Other than the length of time, that's psychological with a properly
prepared yacht and crew. I'd far rather tackle 25+ knots in deep water
than on the Chesapeake, where that's *ALWAYS* ugly.

I was a crew member on a 40'er that departed Yokosuka, Japan bound for
Seattle a little over 20 years ago. For the first 5 days out, it was a
wonderful ride until we hit a low and the **it hit the fan. After 3 days of
rain and double reefed main and stay sail, the owner captain had his
breakdown. This wasn't the cruise he had envisioned. We turned around and
headed back to Yokosuka. He ended up, being a retired officer, getting it
shipped back to San Diego on an LSD that was headed for home. I was ready
and wanted to go and to this day have felt that I was cheated out of my
Pacific crossing.

Leanne

Did he ride on the LSD back with the boat or fly? Sheeze.. with the
flat bottoms the LSD's have you know it's a worse ride than any
sailboat. Good thing is the LSD's skipper would not turn around.

Joe